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JennyA
04-27-2011, 10:27 AM
My roommate is trying to transition. The only problem is that she lives next door to her landlords. They are a 60 year old married couple straight off the boat from Greece a few years back. She has come out to her family, but won't go outside dressed to do yardwork or go to the store. I'm further along then she is and I left my family in January so that I could live full time as a female. The problem is that she is paranoid and won't let me be outside if I look too female.

She thinks that her landlords will kick her out if they see her or myself dressed. It's upsetting to both of us. For one, I spent weeks homeless just so I could pursue this and now I'm trapped again. And she hates having to ask me to tone it down and not be able to dress herself.

I think she is being paranoid. The rent is month to month with no lease. By law can the landlords kick her out if they don't like her sexuality?

If they wanted to kick her out and get around any law couldn't they make up a different reason or raise the rent by a lot to force her out?

I guess I'm wondering what the legalities are for the situation she and I are in.

Thanks
Jen

CharleneT
04-27-2011, 10:35 AM
I'd guess that the laws on this issue vary by state. Here in Iowa being trans is a protected class, and so eviction based on it would not work. Other places, it might be ok. But the more important thing is they can also just make up reasons .... especially without a lease, you have little protection in that regard. Consider going to your court house and asking about a local tenants rights group. Often there is some group who helps out with such things and they could answer your questions. If there is a Law School nearby, they probably have a free lawyer clinic where you could inquire. Even if there is no lease, there are basic rights granted to renters.

Melody Moore
04-27-2011, 11:04 AM
The short & simple answer is 'Yes, landlords can evict you for being transgender', however in most states
& countries around the world it is against the law & a violation of equal opportunities & human rights laws
to discriminate & evict a person because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

So you have to check with your state's laws to know exactly where you stand.

Katesback
04-27-2011, 11:46 AM
I think what has been said previously is important. What I want to add though is that if you do decide to transition from the day you present female you should be quick to be sure to do that 100% of the time.

What I mean is that is it really really hard for people (including me) to see a boy one day and a girl the next day over and over again. It is just a really strange mental thing.

ReneeT
04-27-2011, 02:19 PM
Another perspective - why do you want to support people (your landlords) who you feel would persecute you? Especially in this economy, there are often many rental opportunities that would provide you with a safe, non-judgemntal environment. By way of example, my landlords in Chattanooga TN (the buckle of the bible belt) are a lesbian couple. I could not have dreamed of a more accepting couple. You just need to do your homework and not compromise your self esteem

AllieSF
04-27-2011, 02:49 PM
As everyone else has said, look at your local laws. Depending on where you live now, there may be a renters advocate group who know all the laws and regulations regarding renting and Renter's, as well as, Landlord's rights. Even if there are laws protecting you as a transgendered person, you should be very aware of the rental laws. Here in California, on a month to month lease, written or verbal, the Renter has to get a minimum of a 30 day notice before leaving. Also month to month agreements are made usually to give both parties the right to terminate the rental for whatever reason, without explanation. If you had a year to year agreement, the Landlord could still terminate the agreement without reason after the yearly agreement ends with proper notification.

All that being said, it appears to me it would be in your roommates best interest to broach the subject with the Landlord and see if she can convert the agreement to a long term one, if that is what she wants. Otherwise, if her fears are correct about the Landlord, the Landlord will probably tell her that she cannot continue living there and probably would have no obligation to tell her why. So, I recommend that both of you look for a more accepting accommodations that fit your budget and other needs. I wish you both good luck.

JennyA
04-27-2011, 02:51 PM
I think what has been said previously is important. What I want to add though is that if you do decide to transition from the day you present female you should be quick to be sure to do that 100% of the time.

What I mean is that is it really really hard for people (including me) to see a boy one day and a girl the next day over and over again. It is just a really strange mental thing.

My boss at work won't let me dress in female mode. As soon as I get home I shower and change. It's kinda a bummer though because it only leaves me from about 7pm till bedtime to feel normal.

And yeah I don't like like supporting the landlords, but I do have the support of a TG roommate which is nice. I can't wait to move out to my own spot, but I was recently homeless and now I'm not which is fantastic, plus I'm having trouble keeping any type of savings for a security deposit for my own spot.

Kelly DeWinter
04-27-2011, 03:05 PM
As a former Realtor, I can say absolutlly NO, there is national and state laws against Gender descrimination in Housing. That being said, they can ask a tenate to leave based on the color of her car, or any other inane reason they can think of. It's a crazy world !

Vickie_CDTV
04-27-2011, 03:08 PM
She is right to feel as she does, and in her situation I'd feel the same way. You might want to consult a lawyer about the specifics in your state, but if you don't have a lease they can usually give you 30 days notice to get out for any reason. Even if there is a TG protection law, like all such laws, I wouldn't rely on it to protect you.

Kelly DeWinter
04-27-2011, 03:10 PM
Melody

You are wrong. She lives in Ohio and it is illegal to descrimate in housing based on gender or family status. It takes a court order to get an eviction order signed by a judge, and a sherrifs office to serve an eviction. Neither of which is even remotely possible. In Australia I don't know.

Kelly

Schatten Lupus
04-27-2011, 03:21 PM
The legalities depend on the state. Here in Indiana it is legal to do so.
However to evict a tenant the landlord must get a judge to sign an eviction notice. It can either stop here or go on, depending on the judge. I do not know Ohio law though, so you need to look into this yourself.

JennyA
04-27-2011, 03:33 PM
Thanks for the responses. I think the biggest 'loophole' for the landlords would be to evict us for one reason that is valid, but the real reason is the TG.

Hopefully this is all a mute point soon. I look everyday on craigslist for a new place and its only a matter of time before i move. If only it wasn't for those dang security deposits.

I can't wait to find a 1bdroom joint. I have no place to practice singing or my stand up comedy. I sold my car and that's where I used to sing and talk to myself. Plus my roommate is really quiet and weird about noise.

Melody Moore
04-27-2011, 06:50 PM
You are wrong.

Why am I 'wrong' Kelly when is all I said is 'Yes, landlords can evict you for being transgender'
which is a possible scenario & fact we might have to deal with I did NOT say at any point that
it was OK or legal for landlords to discriminate this way. Some landlords have little regard for the
law or they don't understand or know about new laws that now protect us.

This was the case with a former house-mate who tried to discriminate against me & wanted to
kick me out when I decided to transition, until I contacted my state Anti-discrimination board
& filed a complaint. They sent out the relative claim forms & information brochures of the type
of discrimination I was dealing with. I left these information brochures on the table for my former
house-mate to read. When he seen them on the table he got the shits & threw them everywhere
& got angry at me, saying he didn't care about the law. So that is when I laughed at him & told
him that I knew my rights & I was refusing to move out & I would defend myself if I was forced to
if he ever tried to physically attack me. He backed down because I am a fair bit bigger than he
is. But he didn't stop there, he even tried to set me up to be intimidated & bashed up by his mates
one night. Luckily this stunt back-fired on him and the guys he set up to give me a hard time ended
up really respecting me. In the end I still ended up moving out because I didn't want to live with a
person that still had serious personal issues about being 'bisexual, but still in the closet' to deal with.
Honestly I am so happy I decided to leave in the end, I wound up in a much better place in the end.

Kelly DeWinter
04-27-2011, 08:21 PM
1. the OP question was "Can landlords evict you for being transgender?"
2. She reffered to her roomate and her landlord living next door, so the question related to her situation.
3. The OP lives in Ohio United States
4. It is illegle to discrimanate based on Gender in the state of Ohio in the United States.
5. No court will sign an eviction notice based on Gender either Male,Female,Transgender,Crossdressers, etc,etc,etc ad infinitum.
6. No sheriffs office will serve such an eviction order.

Therefore QED "You are wrong"

and

As I said, in the land of Oz, it seems that according to your experiences it is different, but that does not make you correct in the original poster question in relation to living in Ohio. Please read the OP message for clarity.


Why am I 'wrong' Kelly when is all I said is 'Yes, landlords can evict you for being transgender'
which is a possible scenario & fact we might have to deal with I did NOT say at any point that
it was OK or legal for landlords to discriminate this way. Some landlords have little regard for the
law or they don't understand or know about new laws that now protect us.

This was the case with a former house-mate who tried to discriminate against me & wanted to
kick me out when I decided to transition, until I contacted my state Anti-discrimination board
& filed a complaint. They sent out the relative claim forms & information brochures of the type
of discrimination I was dealing with. I left these information brochures on the table for my former
house-mate to read. When he seen them on the table he got the shits & threw them everywhere
& got angry at me, saying he didn't care about the law. So that is when I laughed at him & told
him that I knew my rights & I was refusing to move out & I would defend myself if I was forced to
if he ever tried to physically attack me. He backed down because I am a fair bit bigger than he
is. But he didn't stop there, he even tried to set me up to be intimidated & bashed up by his mates
one night. Luckily this stunt back-fired on him and the guys he set up to give me a hard time ended
up really respecting me. In the end I still ended up moving out because I didn't want to live with a
person that still had serious personal issues about being 'bisexual, but still in the closet' to deal with.
Honestly I am so happy I decided to leave in the end, I wound up in a much better place in the end.

Momarie
04-27-2011, 08:30 PM
In Missouri, if said landlord owns four or less apartments/homes/units including his own home, he has every right to discriminate.

Oh and Kelly,
As a current Real Estate Broker, you need to go back to real estate school.
When's the last time you took a C.E. class?

Jessinthesprings
04-27-2011, 08:44 PM
It does depend on the state as far as laws go. Colorado passed a very inclusive trans friendly law. unsure about houseing. However, Maryland recently failed to pass a law that would protect housing and employment. Thankfully money talks. If you had a boss that always got you a paycheck would you quit becasue you hated his blue eyes? long story short landlord's need for a paycheck will likely overcome bigotry. As long as you keep to yourself, make timely rent payments, and follow the requirements of your lease to the letter you will unlikely have a problem.

However, like many before have said why live there wehere you feel descriminated against? Of course it could be all in your mind. Just because they are first generation immagrants does not mean anything. In fact they may even have some sympothy because I'm sure they have faced their own descrimination.

Kelly DeWinter
04-27-2011, 08:45 PM
In the United States, Federal Law trumps State Law. States like Missouri typicly will not pass a state law gaurenteeing what Federal Law already protects. Below is a link to Federal Housing Laws which prohibit Gender Discrimination.

http://public.findlaw.com/civil-rights/gender-discrimination/gender-discrimination-laws.html

I know federal and state law.

If a defendent suspects or has proof of gender discrimination, he or she can file a lawsuit in either state or federal court. It's better to have proof to win a lawsuit, or you can take your chances with a trial by jury.

Momarie
04-27-2011, 08:53 PM
You miss the point Kelly.
In Missouri, if a LANDLORD owns four or less units including his own, he is not obligated to know or obey discrimination laws.

You may know state and federal law, but you sure don't know Real Estate.

Aprilrain
04-27-2011, 09:57 PM
Lady's, please!

Heres the deal. do they or do they not want your money? they can probably kick you out for no reason at all but they will have to call the police and they will have to get a court order and they will have to wait 30 days at least and then the sherif post a notice and blah blah blah. if they are first generation immigrants their probably just as ignorant about the laws as you are and think that they can just tell you to leave whenever they want I'm sure that if you inform them firmly but politely what the laws are they will not want to deal with that. and will either give you a reasonable amount of time to find new accommodations or simply keep taking you money as it is the easiest and most profitable option for them.

Aside from pure bigotry, do you actually have a reason to think they would even care?

It never even occurred to me to ask or be concerned about what my landlords would think about me coming and going dressed however I want, I mean it's not like I look like a hooker but even if I did what business is it of theirs as long as I'm not breaking laws or being a pest. I won't go in the apartment complex office unless I'm dressed as a female now even though when I rented the place I did so as a male. They have been nothing but nice and polite and do their best to use female pronouns, I don't even think they remember my male name.

Eryn
04-27-2011, 10:21 PM
why do you want to support people (your landlords) who you feel would persecute you?

Hmm, isn't acting based upon what you feel people *might* do called "prejudice", as in "all older Greek people are prudes?"

Perhaps a private chat with the landlords might be in order to prevent any surprises.

With most landlords, as long as the checks arrive promptly and you take good care of the premeses they don't worry what you do.

Oh, and if you're on a month-to-month basis, either party can end the agreement at will. Your flexibility to leave at any time is matched by the landlord having the flexibility to have you leave at any time. It's only fair.

Melody Moore
04-27-2011, 10:35 PM
As I said, in the land of Oz, it seems that according to your experiences it is different, but that does not make you correct in the original poster question in relation to living in Ohio. Please read the OP message for clarity.
Kelly, you are not getting my point & seem to be trying to create an argument over nothing here.

I did read the original post & they OP states... The only problem is that she lives next door to her landlords. So the
thing to remember is they might share the same property boundary since her place is also right next door to the owner.

The point I was making is they 'can' if they choose to discriminate against you. I am not saying that it is legal to do
so. And as also pointed out by Jamie is that under certain circumstances where they also share the same property
discrimination laws have no effect. This is mostly in situations where you share the same property with the landlord.

A landlord can if they choose to discriminate against you for being transgendered, but don't have to give any reason
or indication that this was the real motive for evicting you. So you got to remember that transgender discrimination
can be covered up. They could if they wanted decide not to renew your lease & give you notice on the grounds they
want vacant possession of the property for their own purposes, or for renovations etc. To prove discrimination after
you transitioned, you would have to prove that your landlord was good to you in the beginning, but then show how
they became rude & obnoxious to when you transitioned then discriminated against in the basis of your change of gender.

I don't imagine that would be easy to do Kelly, so in some cases landlords can discriminate against you & get away
with it. But the best way to avoid eviction is be a very good tenant & don't give them any reason to want to evict you.

Kelly DeWinter
04-27-2011, 10:49 PM
Jamie;

Oww that hurts, I guess I'll have to turn in my Real Estate Licence. My Broker would go nuts if he found out I was not qualified to sell all of the homes I have over the last 5 years. Not to mention the Rental properties that I manage for clients. The point is ANY Landlord IS obligated in ANY state to know AND abide by Federal Law. The defense "I did'nt know" has been tried may times in the past, and consistantly local,state and federal judges have ruled that "Ignorance of the Law is NO excuse". Just because you don't know about a law will not stop you from being prosecuted for violating that law. When I checked earlier today Missouri was still part of the United States, unless something has happened in the last couple of hours that has made Missouri an independent nation or an part of another Country like Mexico or Canada, then Federal law still applies. If ya'll have become an independent nation, I would love to be Queen of Missouri.

Can we kiss and make up ?

Best wishes Kelly

Kelly DeWinter
04-27-2011, 10:51 PM
OK you 'win'. :)


Kelly, you are not getting my point & seem to be trying to create an argument over nothing here.

I did read the original post & they OP states... The only problem is that she lives next door to her landlords. So the
thing to remember is they might share the same property boundary since her place is also right next door to the owner.

The point I was making is they 'can' if they choose to discriminate against you. I am not saying that it is legal to do
so. And as also pointed out by Jamie is that under certain circumstances where they also share the same property
discrimination laws have no effect. This is mostly in situations where you share the same property with the landlord.

A landlord can if they choose to discriminate against you for being transgendered, but don't have to give any reason
or indication that this was the real motive for evicting you. So you got to remember that transgender discrimination
can be covered up. They could if they wanted decide not to renew your lease & give you notice on the grounds they
want vacant possession of the property for their own purposes, or for renovations etc. To prove discrimination after
you transitioned, you would have to prove that your landlord was good to you in the beginning, but then show how
they became rude & obnoxious to when you transitioned then discriminated against in the basis of your change of gender.

I don't imagine that would be easy to do Kelly, so in some cases landlords can discriminate against you & get away
with it. But the best way to avoid eviction is be a very good tenant & don't give them any reason to want to evict you.

maryellen
04-27-2011, 11:08 PM
Jen --

The Cleveland Tenants Ass'n (your county?) purports to be interested in this kind of dispute and will probably provide more accurate advice than those of us from other jurisdictions. Their number is 216 432 0617. I handled a case like this in PA some time ago, before fair housing laws, and my sense is that Aprilrain's advice is very much on target. Good luck.

Maryellen

AKAMichelle
04-27-2011, 11:39 PM
Colorado is protected as well. Just check the laws and if you aren't protected then you should probably move.

jennifer easton
04-27-2011, 11:40 PM
their landlord doesn't have to discriminate, all he needs do is raze the rent each month till they cant pay, the landlord can be the biggest biggit in the world and squeeze them out and not even tip his hat to anyone, so yes the point is a landlord can kick you out any time he wants to, with out it being known what the reason is, you could be purple, or have Long hair or anything that he dislike and there are ways to get you out with out it looking like discrimination Jenni

Chickhe
04-28-2011, 12:10 AM
Its sad to say, but in your situation where money is tight you should avoid rocking the boat. The problem is, a landlord can do anything...so can a tenant for that matter. The question is, do you want to hassle with it and spend time with lawyers etc...? What you want to do is show your landlords that you are good tenants. Pay your rent on time...maybe even early. If you pay utilities, pay them on time too... offer to help your landlords, keep the place clean, as if it was your own. Many renters feel like the landlord owes them something and they are rich etc... the reality is the landlord has to pay taxes, motgages, upkeep, deal with bad tenants. etc etc.. there are a lost easier ways to make a buck. If you are on your landlord's good side you will be teaching them that transgender people are respectable and they will not hassle you. Be kind and make them want to keep you around. If you don't want to hide...then be open and honest and tell your landlord so they don't feel like you are hiding or are shamed (legally if you have lived there for a while and have been in good status, then tell them you are TG and then they evict you it doesn't really matter what reason they give because you can show a history that backs up your case).

JennyA
04-28-2011, 09:47 AM
About the landlords being from Greece. I wasn't implying that just because they were from the old country that they had a certain viewpoint. It's just that they told my roommate when he moved in that he couldn't have a boyfriend. We're not dating, and I wish I didn't look like the boyfriend type. They go through his garbage too. I'm staying there because I'm safe now and not homeless like in January. If not for saving up for a security deposit I'd have taken off by now. But it's safe and good support from another tg person.

Anyways, I have my answer that I was looking for
Can they legally evict us for being transgender in Ohio? No
Can they find a loophole, like raising rent, to make us leave? Yes.

RADER
04-28-2011, 11:37 AM
You did not mention how long you have lived there.
If for a short time, you might have much to stand on.
However, if at least 1 year, and having a good record of rent
paying, there should be no reason for eviction.
In this market, finding a good rent payer is worth a lot, dressed one way or another.
If you do not hold wild parties, wreck the house, or cause undue hardship
for anyone; The Landlords are some lucky people. You can use this as a good
argument if you have a discussion with them if something should blow up. Good luck.
Rader

tanyalynn51
04-28-2011, 01:35 PM
Im with the crowd that says that you cant normally be evicted for gender issues. BUT, there is the little matter of the month to month lease- maybe, since I work exclusively on weekends, I watch too much of the courtroom tv shows, but it seems that the month to month leaves you vulnerable to any eviction, as long as they give you 30 days notice. Ive been at the same place for 7 years, and do a year's lease, and am not worried. But then, I know it is in the lease, that they cant discriminate, even without the law, and they are very good about keeping the lease, on their end and that I keep it on mine. There is something to be said for larger complexes.

Jessinthesprings
04-28-2011, 03:59 PM
After reading everyones post I'm still convenced that money talks. Do what you need to do. If you give them no other reason to evict it is easier just to keep getting paid. for what it sounds like they are probably not the most openminded people but they haven't evicted you two for being "gay". Many people see being trans as the same as being gay.

However, prepaire for the worst. Most I ever paid for a security deposit was $1,200 because I had to pay last month's rent. It was brand new apartment with all of the perks. Most places are looking for great renters, so unless you have an eviction on your record, you can often get in with first month's rent and around a $100 deposit. Because an empty apartment is costing them money they would otherwise make money off of. If getting your own place is important to you, you should have no problem doing so within a month.

CharleneT
04-28-2011, 04:33 PM
. . . They go through his garbage too. I'm staying there because I'm safe now and not homeless like in January. If not for saving up for a security deposit I'd have taken off by now. But it's safe and good support from another tg person.


Whoa ! I surely hope you are kidding about going thru the garbage... if it is so, and you can get a vid of it, you'll have a decent bargining chip. I think many here who've said that being a good renter is the best plan are right. Even if it isn't too hard to find a new one, it is a hassle. Be nice, friendly, quiet and clean and I'll bet they don't look too closely at your status.

Stephenie S
05-04-2011, 10:26 PM
Can a landlord evict you for being transgender?

No. However, unless you have a lease which states otherwise, you are on 30 day notice.

I am a landlady and when I have to evict someone I never give a reason other than "It's not working out." Giving a reason only gives the bad tenant something to argue about. And if you are a good tenant, why would I evict you?

Pay your rent on time, keep the place neat and clean, be quite at night, and you won't ever have a problem with a landlord (or lady).

S

Allyson Michelle
05-27-2011, 11:45 PM
legally no... but they usually find or make up a reason to do so. Much like other civil matters like jobs. They see you slip up once, and you're gone

nikkijo
05-30-2011, 05:05 AM
legally if she pays her rent on time they have no legal right to evict a tennant for personal beliefs, actions, or presentation unless it is deemed distructive to the land lords property....

BillieJoEllen
06-01-2011, 12:32 PM
I recently retired from the apartment renting industry. Where I live and where I worked there are such things as 'contracts' that are signed by both parties. These are mostly very involved documents that list a myriad of things that a tenant can be evicted for. Now if the landlord has in his/her heart the desire to evict someone because they are TG they don't have to declare their desire. All the landlord has to do is turn to the contract and find something the tenant agreed to do but failed to do so. Theres the landlord's case. As long as the 'violation' can be found in the contract the landlord can initiate eviction proceedings. Of course time is always on the tenants side. It could be months before an eviction can take place but the landlord can always get around his/her bias by finding something else to evict on. I've seen this happen many times but never with a TG tenant. Its not always a perfect system.