PDA

View Full Version : Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead



Genevera
10-03-2007, 09:31 PM
I've seen some posts here that quite frankly fighten me, and wonder what planet some posters live on. Telling people to just come out to everyone it will be uplifting and a tremendous feeling of freedom or don't be afraid to come out to your family or mother they love you all will be well??? how's about a reality check . . .

Many Crossdressers have 20 to 30 year mortgages, upset the neighbors by coming out to the neighborhood and see how many people will let their kids play with the "pervert down the street's" kids, here where I live, not going to the right church is reason enough for kids to be excluded in a neighborhood.

Believe it or not being gay is more tolerated by society than being transgender or CD, a man dressing and emulating a woman is more threatening to a heterosexual man than a gay man is . . .

" WASHINGTON (AP) - Legislation to criminalize workplace discrimination against gays, lesbians and bisexuals - but not those who have had sex-change surgery or cross-dressers - has stalled in the House after an impassioned outcry against excluding people from the bill. "

The outcry was from the GLBT Community, this is what is going on this week in Washington even Barney Frank an openly gay legislator along with Nancy Pelosi endorsed removing Transgender People from the bill as the Democrats don't believe they can get it to pass with Transgender/CD included.

There are numerous reports around the country of transgendered people being murdered and no investigation being done, because these people were of no real value, their murders begrudgedly investigated only after the ACLU or Lambda Legal gets involved.

There is a big problem here where I live with kids living on the streets 12, 13 & 14 year olds thrown out of their homes by parents for being "Gay" Almost 50% of our street kids are Gay or Transgender. I doubt those kids are feeling a tremendous feeling of freedom.

Maybe for some people that advice might be OK depending on your age, and social circles. but most CD's and transgender live in a fairly mundane world that may not find it interesting or amusing to find out the lady next door is or was a man.

Coming out is a difficult decision for any CD, loss of affection from family members, loss of friendships & jobs are a possible reality for most CD's To live in a neighborhood where your neighbors dislike or distrust you while locked into a 30 year mortgage is not a good row to hoe. Coming out is a process of long pondering and trust and an issue of need to know. To blanketly come out to everyone could be emotional and social suicide for many CD's as well as the repercussions of the trickledown effect it would have on their SO's and children.

I'm not posting this to create chaos in the forum or hard feelings but I feel sometimes we need to think in real life terms before posting advice

Jilmac
10-03-2007, 09:53 PM
you're right, a lot of good points. i've been dressing over 40 years and i still haven't come out for a lot of the reasons you mentioned.

battybattybats
10-03-2007, 09:57 PM
There are some very important points there and that raise some important questions.
As the risks are so great is it any wonder so many CDs take years to come out to their loved ones or never voluntarily do and are caught out by accident?

Is there a great need for activism amongst those with the freedom to be out to help those in less conducive circumstances?

Those who are out may well feel that they are alone and have an undue burden placed upon them by those without the courage or the capacity to come out. How may they be further suported?

Do all people aware of the plight of Cds, possibly the most marginalised and discriminated against group in the country, have a responsibility to act on their behalf to make it safer and easier for them to come out?

In what way can people in situations where their public expression is limited still help prevent these injustices, protect the vulnerable and improve these situations?

Jocelyn Quivers
10-03-2007, 10:06 PM
I understand the feeling. I've been recently outed myself. I'm still kind of in the wait and see what happens to my career, how many friends and family will I lose, phase myself. I also have a mortage that I must pay for, so I have to remain employed as well , and I also enjoy what I do for a living.

I guess the one thing I will add as far as voluntarily coming out is, that hiding so deeply in the closet can have a very negative emotional effect on a person. Me being a prime example. For me at least my femme side is a very large part of who I am. In the end I started becoming so overtly paranoid about being outted that I of course, I spent every moment of my life in male mode wondering would people be able to tell that I am a CD, and being outright terrified if anyone found out. Ex. wearing long pants in 100 degree weather, because I did not want people to know I shaved, litteraly at times driving to another state to purchase clothes etc.

In the end my being so very paranoid and careful worrying about what would happen if my co-workers and other associates in my proffession found out. I ended up outting myself basicaly as a result of internal guilt, and the belief that "cross dressing will get me fired and I'll lose everything, be disowned, deported, etc.

Now I am in the position were I am no longer in the closet and I now have to live with the very real possibility that from this point foward everyone I know will judge me for being "different" as opposed to how they have always known me. In the end be careful about who you chose to reveal your fem side to, but do not let being so afraid of coming out of the closet effect you to the point were it is on your mind every single moment of your life. Jocelyn

Jolene
10-03-2007, 10:17 PM
This is an interesting post and there are many different reasons for any of us to pick the direction we travel in. I can say in my situation, I can't ever imagine outing myself to anyone in my family let alone anyone else. I do fear being found out someday and I guess I will have to deal with it than the best I can. This is a lonely life most of us here lead and I am so thankful to all of you, my friends, on this site for support.
Jolene

Genevera
10-03-2007, 10:34 PM
I am not completely out, my circle of close friends all know, only because I was suicidal and they all pooled together their emotional resources to help me through my tough times and in doing so entered into my world just to help piece me together, my SO knows and is accepting and supportive, my neighbors and fellow workers do not know nor need to know.

How do we support those who are out, a good question to ask "Batty" . . . for one vote, be aware of the issues, support GLBT causes, you do not need to be gay to support things like the Royal Court, hold your elected officials' feet to the fire Being out is not for everyone but supporting the cause is something we all must do, be politically aware and active.

If your closeted there are ways to get out and dress, a cheap motel room for a night or weekend works well you don't need to have out of town business to stay across town for a night out away from where people know you.

MJ
10-03-2007, 10:34 PM
here we go .... first of all if the world in general feels that way about us why not put trans people up against the wall and shot us all ..

there are many here who want the freedom to be and dress how they feel but nobody wants to be first ..
do you believe there is such a thing as transgendered ??
why don't we all hide in the closet and never do anything to change how people feel about us

sure not every family will accept a cd'r or trans person in there family .. but some do .. hey some S.O accept there husbands and some don't

some family's welcome transgendered people in to there home omg some call 911 they Evan let me hold there children and play with dolls thanks DW

how on earth are we going to change the views of others if we hide and adopt the attitude you present !! ..

There are numerous reports around the country of transgendered people being murdered and no investigation being done, because these people were of no real value,

life is a bitch ant it .. i would rather die trying to be me than never to have tried at all , and if the family's did not kick there son's and daughters out for being gay or trans they may not have to die or work the streets so we can eat etc etc
as far a work well i am sorry but i don't have a problem everybody else does who can't accept

There is a big problem here where I live with kids living on the streets 12, 13 & 14 year olds thrown out of their homes by parents for being "Gay" Almost 50% of our street kids are Gay or Transgendered. I doubt those kids are feeling a tremendous feeling of freedom.

What about love and caring for a son or a daughter ... so what if they are gay or transgendered ..... they still need love and hope who is to say there lives are not as precious as the " normal " people

Maybe for some people that advice might be OK depending on your age, and social circles. but most CD's and transgendered live in a fairly mundane world that may not find it interesting or amusing to find out the lady next door is or was a man.

i find these people fascinating amazing brave and they are more my kind . don't you find "normal" people just as scary and so boring

Coming out is a difficult decision for any CD, loss of affection from family members, loss of friendships & jobs are a possible reality for most CD's To live in a neighborhood where your neighbors dislike or distrust you while locked into a 30 year mortgage is not a good row to hoe. Coming out is a process of long pondering and trust and an issue of need to know. To blanketly come out to everyone could be emotional and social suicide for many CD's as well as the repercussions of the trickle-down effect it would have on their SO's and children.

you have no idea at all do you .... to deny one self is social suicide .. when you can't be yourself sooner or later like a pressure cooker the lid will blow off and the consequences will be far worse ... live a lie and die * suicide* or to one self be true or die trying .. i know what it is like i lost everyone and yes it hurts but you can't lie to yourself

I'm not posting this to create chaos in the forum or hard feelings but I feel sometimes we need to think in real life terms before posting advice

so are you saying to hell with telling anyone including the one you love
what they don't know won't hurt me ?

not going to the right church is reason enough for kids to be excluded in a neighborhood.


What about love for our fellow man /woman respect Honor god does not make any mistakes
have you ever put a mouse or rat in a maze and put obstacles in there way to see how they react ???
maybe we are the rats in the maze called life and god puts people in our way to see how we react ... are we passing or failing ??

sorry for the long reply this is very dear to my heart

docrobbysherry
10-03-2007, 10:44 PM
As a divorced dad, with a young daughter at home part time, I already have trouble finding parents that will let their girls come over and play with mine. How many of those would allow their kid over if the knew I dressed? I also have thought about coming out to various important people in my life. I CANNOT invision any one of them saying, " Oh, it's OK". Only, "queer", "freak", etc. etc

I forgot to add: This site allows me discuss my secret. It allows me communicate with others with whom I can relate, and vice versa. And I think I will be relieved of the "guilt", the confusion, and the anxiety I had about my "weirdness" before I found this forum! Hurry! I'm NOT crazy and don't think I will be now!

julie-cd
10-03-2007, 10:56 PM
I never came out to anyone but my wife (Which already have and she doesnt care, and didnt think she would. We both open minded bleeding heart liberals ha). If I did come out to "any" of my other family I would be totally disowned by them. I have no children at the moment, but i've decided to keep it hidden from them best I can when they do come. At least thats the plan for now lol.

Its very strange to me in a way. Maybe it might be where im from rural area, but the idea of going out dressed up just to me personally blows my mind. Its like outside of these walls, its just not safe whatsoever. Also from where im from, sadly to expect violence against me. When I say "expect" i mean to say "know".

Like I said, maybe its just me and granted im somewhat new to this all... It seems though outside of these walls just=danger and being disowned. Those who take the risks though, your much more brave than I am :)

Jamie001
10-03-2007, 11:17 PM
I have found "coming-out" to be a very positive experience. I made a decision regarding friends and family members that if they can't accept me as I am, then I don't want them in my life! I have no place for bigots in my life. Coming out is a really good way to sort-out the friends and family that really care about you rather than some image that they believe that you should project. For me, coming out allowed me to determine who my real friends and family are basically separating the wheat from the chaff. :2c:



I never came out to anyone but my wife (Which already have and she doesnt care, and didnt think she would. We both open minded bleeding heart liberals ha). If I did come out to "any" of my other family I would be totally disowned by them. I have no children at the moment, but i've decided to keep it hidden from them best I can when they do come. At least thats the plan for now lol.

Its very strange to me in a way. Maybe it might be where im from rural area, but the idea of going out dressed up just to me personally blows my mind. Its like outside of these walls, its just not safe whatsoever. Also from where im from, sadly to expect violence against me. When I say "expect" i mean to say "know".

Like I said, maybe its just me and granted im somewhat new to this all... It seems though outside of these walls just=danger and being disowned. Those who take the risks though, your much more brave than I am :)

GoSquad
10-03-2007, 11:21 PM
:2c:

Ok so maybe i do live in tv land, with jack tripper, Jamie Farr, tom hanks, tim curry and eddie izzard, thats entertainment. That's how I make it a tad bit easier to bear, for those that don't understand without too much interferrence. It may just my persona that Ive created in self-defense of all the teasing in my life. But I really like to dress :cheer: So yeah that for the most part is how it works with me.

Tho one time at cheer camp... well maybe not only that one time...

Joy Carter
10-03-2007, 11:25 PM
Genevera, I share many of you thoughts on this issue. But one greatly troubles me.
The statement that trans murders are not investigated because we/they have no value as a person is incredibly false.
I'm a retired police officer, and each case I was involved in, as well as my fellow officers was investigated to fullest. No mater the persons makeup.

You have to understand police officers. We are in many cases driven to get answers and when we fail, we take it personally. I never had a TG murder. But even the lowly (if you will) drug addict or prostitute got the best we could offer in seeing justice served.

Genevera
10-03-2007, 11:42 PM
I'm sure in most jurisdictions what you say is true but just several months ago on NPR I believe they were discussing a case I believe in California where this was the case. I've experienced police around the country and had my eyes widened here in Utah when the Olympics were held here, Police from a several state area were brought in to patrol the Olympic grounds in their local uniforms, without fail police from all the out of state areas looked like your next door neighbor and were friendly with the crowd, the local salt lake city police by contrast (we had just installed an L.A. style police commissioner) were built like linebackers very large and muscular, skinhead type police officers and all copped a militant attitude. To this day I won't trust a salt lake cop for this very reason.

trannie T
10-03-2007, 11:47 PM
This thread is frightening, it seems that many of us are sanctioning discrimination. If we are to remain timid little kittens hid in our closets we deserve to be outcasts.
Genevera's arguments remind me of growing up in the 50's. All one has to do is substitute the word "Negro" for "crossdresser." If you tolerate discrimination and prejudice then you deserve to be a victim of discrimination.

Joy Carter
10-03-2007, 11:55 PM
the local salt lake city police by contrast (we had just installed an L.A. style police commissioner) were built like linebackers very large and muscular, skinhead type police officers and all copped a militant attitude. To this day I won't trust a salt lake cop for this very reason.

Your not being prejudice just because of the way the looked, or appeared to behave now are you ?
Cops are just like people. We come from society and are as different as any of you. I'd not take the fact that one shaves (like the rest of the population of males who do) his head to be a "Skin Head."
There are good cops and bad cops. Just like everyone else.

As far as what a reporter says, take it with a grain of salt. I find that through the years many are not truthful with the facts, because it doesn't fit there view on any given topic. In other words they have an agenda to fill.

My Lady Marsea
10-04-2007, 12:31 AM
I have found "coming-out" to be a very positive experience. I made a decision regarding friends and family members that if they can't accept me as I am, then I don't want them in my life! I have no place for bigots in my life. Coming out is a really good way to sort-out the friends and family that really care about you rather than some image that they believe that you should project. For me, coming out allowed me to determine who my real friends and family are basically separating the wheat from the chaff. :2c:

:My 2c:I have done the same and found the same results. I came out 100% and even today outed to a friend who comes to this area for the winter. I told him to put on his best poker face when he sees me LOL.:straightface: I have over the last 6 months since coming out 7/24 lost some "friends" but overall found a couple of "real friends" one of whom I have know for 25 years. He missed all the slow changes and didn't see me until I reached where I am today and like to cracked me up for seeing me the first time. His statement: WOW. You make a lot prettier girl than a guy,:heehee: and it's gotten better and more rewarding since. I have actually found some local CDs (thanks to this site) and after only spending a few hours total with them feel soooo welcome and wanted. They can not come out and the reasons are totaly valid. I see them dressed and feel totaly ok. No one is "uncomfortable" with each other. We're planning a out of towner day trip already.:thumbsup:My married life was down the tubes anyway so this just put the last nail in the coffen, it was not the cause. We still live in the same home and still talk and treat each other with respect while both marking time for the divorce papers to grind thru the court system, and we'll go out seperate ways as soon as I get our mutal agreed upon settlement. I don't think those who say come out and be yourself are trying to twist anothers arms and YES YES YES....some of us can no way ever come out due to personal life styles. I reached what I considered my "magical" point and went for it. :happy:At this moment I have no regrets and would do it again. My own personall happines and lovin' myself for the first time has and I hope will continue to push and pull me through all the little (and big) points where I bog down. This ain't no hobby or just a pastime for me...it's my new life chance I've been wanting for many years.:D

sterling12
10-04-2007, 12:53 AM
But, it's always an individual decision! Relating a story about a personal experience of coming out, shouldn't have any effect on the decision making process of a thinking person. It might give some one The courage to try it right away, but The Decision itself was probably already made.

Remember what your parents always said: "Just because your friend Chuckie is doing it, doesn't mean you should do it!" "If Chuckie jumped into The Lake and drowned, would you do that too?"

That was good advise then, AND NOW. Can't imagine your "Street Smart Kids," would be reading The Prose on this site. And, haven't most of them been exposed as transgender already? I thought that's why they often got booted out of the house.

Peace and Love, Joanie

julie-cd
10-04-2007, 01:11 AM
I have found "coming-out" to be a very positive experience. I made a decision regarding friends and family members that if they can't accept me as I am, then I don't want them in my life! I have no place for bigots in my life. Coming out is a really good way to sort-out the friends and family that really care about you rather than some image that they believe that you should project. For me, coming out allowed me to determine who my real friends and family are basically separating the wheat from the chaff. :2c:

I can understand that, but only up to a degree. My father is 75 years old now, hes had cancer, heart attacks, etc. Hes obviously not in good health, so alot of it has to do with him. If I came out to anyone but my wife he would find out. This later stage of his life, I just wouldnt want to cause that rift between us. Is he wrong in his thinking? Sure, but I doubt my father has ever seen a man dressed up as a woman (And knew it!). There is education/generation gap there, and I think there isnt anything wrong with being able to recognize that. Basically, I don't want him to go away with us on bad terms or not speaking. Am I wrong, I dunno, just think for me personally its the right thing to do.

Far as friends go, only friends I really have left is my wife. My cross dressing actually has played quite a part in that. I live in the rural south as I said... The idea of living somewhere, where I might have friends like myself (Not just dressing, I live in extremely conservative place) seems like a rather nice notion. However, I talked to my wife about it, but she wants to stay here because her mother is also ill. Moving 300 miles away on very limited budget, a wife who doesnt like the city=im going to die here... great hahahahah... This has suddenly gotten depressing for me. ha


Anyhow, being "out" in certain parts of the country are more safe than others. I can understand going out in certain areas I have traveled, but in this part of the united states it just isnt happening. I would honestly say if someone was to dress up openly here they would be putting themselves in great danger. It only takes couple drunk rednecks to decide to prove they are tough guys. We arent in short supply of them here sadly.

Also there is no way I could ever pass. Trust me, I would clearly be a man in a dress. I have extremely "manly" build, and I stand around 6'7 soooo yeah heh. No fooling anyone, unless you know, I wore a volleyball outfit out!

As I said though, im extremely new to all this. I just shaved my legs/bodyhair for the first time today. So take my opinion as a total and utter newbie to this. Months or years down the road I am sure ill see things different.