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LindaMarie
11-14-2008, 12:41 PM
I was recently fired from a large well-known company because I violated their Internet policy. I was terminated for using the Internet for personal use and accessing inappropriate sites. These sites included crossdressing sites (like this one).

I was stunned. Although I knew the policy and I did use the Internet at work to access crossdressing sites (and, as you know, even the non X-rated sites often show girls in various states of undress), I didn't think the sites I accessed were offensive or pornographic. The company disagreed and I lost a good job. Fortunately, I'm 55 years old and we're in the worst economic mess in years so I'm sure finding a new job won't be any problem at all.

A few thoughts:

1) I'm an idiot. I should never have used my work computer to look at crossdressing sites.

2) Although I received good performance evaluations, kept up with my work and often stayed late or came in early to make up for my personal computer time, at some level, I was cheating the company.

3) Be careful. My company had a specific policy about personal use of the Internet so I had no recourse about not knowing the policy. I'm still stunned. I feel like my termination was like getting a 5 year prison sentence for speeding. However, I should have remembered that although we frequent sites like this and have come to accept crossdressing, most people don't. They feel like it's a perversion at best. These are the people who will judge whether you look at inappropriate sites.

4) After being so stupid, I've decided to take a break from cd sites for a while. Not surprisingly, the fun and attraction of cd sites and the idea of dressing don't make up for how stupid I feel about what I did.

5) My wife didn't like my crossdressing before this. You can imagine how she feels now.

Clara
11-14-2008, 12:48 PM
So sorry, LindaMarie. Good luck job hunting. Also, good luck at home.

P.S. Now I (and many others, I think) will be more careful using Internet at work.

Daintre
11-14-2008, 12:53 PM
I am very sorry for you LindaMarie, I can understand the frustration. I do hope that things are not to rocky at home and that you can find other employment quickly. As for being an idiot, I think not, but maybe just poor judgment was used.

divamissz
11-14-2008, 12:54 PM
I'm sorry you lost your job, and the market is killer. I've been out of work for a while and I am getting desperate...

At least you take the blame for what happened. They had a policy, you knew it, and got caught.

Shannen
11-14-2008, 01:11 PM
Did you get a lawyer?

What is their internet log review policy? Who else has been fired for internet use? Who else has NOT been fired for internet use?

Basically policies are smoke and mirrors. If they don't have a review policy in place and fire EVERYONE that violates the policy, then you may have recourse...

You may not want to draw attention to yourself, but they don't want to draw attention, or fines, for what they did either.

Angel.Marie76
11-14-2008, 01:27 PM
I'll backup Shannen's perspective. I'm familiar enough with company technology practicies that I've help WRITE the Acceptable Use Policies for both public and private domain businesses, AND school districts.

There are many lines in those policies that are open to interpretation, and certainly, as Shannen said, if you find fault in the companies 'Procedures' for following and applying 'Policies', then you indeed have a case to renew your employment status, or at the least, change the terms of termination to be considered 'layoff' or other Unemployement funding-friendly terminology. Unfortunately, there is absolute truth most of the time that it is not worth the effort of dragging yourself out into the public forum just to recover lost wages at times.

Also, think about those policies and procedures further, look for lines like 'Incidental Personal Use' and allowances for lunchtime access and the like. Lastly, remember, if you wanted to be vocal, it's discrimination (unless explicit pornography is involved) at a few different levels. Who's to say that a CD lifestyle is anything more than LIFE. Who, really found offense? Why? Did they have some insight to know if you were 'different' to them? I use thses terms loosely, but I'm sure you get the perspective.

I do reinforce your original opinion though: IF you use a computer at work, unless magic policy and procedures declare otherwise, THAT computer and all related resources are privately owned, and they have every right in the business world to be jerks about it if they want. Depending on the industry in question for the amount of monitoring and computer use: If you're in the customer service sector in anyway shape or form, be advised that there may be 'filters' searching for key words in every web site and email you send. If it flags a word, BANG! They know something's up. If you're in the security sector, you've either figured out a way around their logging systems OR you you shouldn't be here right now.. ;)

Regardless, sorry for your loss, I hope you find something suitable to replace it. :hugs:

curse within
11-14-2008, 01:30 PM
Linda,

I would go to the LRB,,,....That is wrong they terminated you for visiting this site..I may be wrong don't know what other sites you visited but this site is a supportive site reguarless of the code of conduct this would fall into a EEO complaint.. The non acceptance of X-dressing is a violation no grounds for termanation it is against the law..

docrobbysherry
11-14-2008, 01:36 PM
I'm so sorry! I hope u find that new jop ASAP!

I work for myself, and I still NEVER ACCESS CD sites at work! Just in case my bookeeper sees where I was!:o

KateSpade83
11-14-2008, 01:46 PM
They could have used this as an excuse to get rid of an old worker too.

Sally2005
11-14-2008, 01:47 PM
You should consult with a lawyer if you didn't get a fair deal. Many people use the internet to do personal stuff such as banking, ebay etc... Unless you were spending a huge amount to time instead of working and someone found 'real' pornography on your computer then what they did is probably unreasonable.

It is a good idea to keep work and personal lives 100% separate for many reasons.

Sad to hear about your loss...I hope you don't feel too bad and you find a better job elsewhere.

Karren H
11-14-2008, 01:55 PM
Awwwww Linda!! I am soooo sorry!! Damn that's friggin unbelievable!! All sites like that are blocked here... The only things I surf are makeup and fashion sites... But then again so do a lot of the women in this building... I'd go get a lawyer for sure!!!! What other choices do you have??

Darlene Dippy
11-14-2008, 02:26 PM
Actually the title "Lost my job because I'm an idiot" is not true. - Your capability to do the job does not seem to be the issue.

We live in a world where conforming is what is seen as being the way forward, its really back to the wearing the old 'Emperor Clothes' - it will pass!

Hope you can sort out a new job in short order LindaMarie.

Darlene

TommiTN
11-14-2008, 02:47 PM
I'm so sorry to hear of your set back. I'm in a similar situation (nothing to do with cd'ing; I was not active when I left my last employer and never visited any websites that could be considered suspect, and never on company time). I took a buyout package and am receiving unemployment compensation. Believe me, I'd rather be working. But one must ask; what were you thinking? You are square in the middle of the age bracket where employers look to cut costs. This is because health insurance providers raise employers' premiums based on the number of employees over the age of about 45 they have. You already had a target on your back due to your age. You just gave them an excuse to get rid of you without severance no matter how good you were at your job. The advice to find a lawyer is iffy at best unless you can find one who will take your case on contingency. Employers tend to have their legal i's dotted and tee's crossed before they make a move.

Anyway, keep your chin up and I wish you the best of luck in your search for a new position. :hugs:

Angie G
11-14-2008, 03:15 PM
Sorry to hear this bad news hun. I hope everythink comes out OK for you.:hugs:
Angie

Sophia de la luz
11-14-2008, 03:17 PM
I'm in the "get a lawyer" camp. It's worth exploring. Even if you don't get your job back, grab some "get outta here" cash.

Or, let it go, move on. Maybe what comes next will be better.

caressa
11-14-2008, 03:25 PM
A lawyer's a good idea, but there's a chance your old company has one that'll bring negative aspects of your 'surfing' further out into a bad-public-light.

By far tho, the most mis-uses of company 'puters which result in employee-terminations are for poker/cardgame sites.

Miss Tessa
11-14-2008, 03:29 PM
I'm very sorry to hear you lost your job, but especially in part due to prejudices against us for being who we are. That's just wrong.

Even though you were off task on the job at times obviously, I'm certain it was still prejudice they felt based on the nature of the websites.

Vicki65
11-14-2008, 03:33 PM
TBH I would NEVER access a site like this from work. We KNOW what the general populace think of us. Whether right or wrong, why should your employer think any differently?

The employer has a policy, and as you honourably admit, you crossed their line. Others probably do as well, but when you suggest that, they will likely just print out their server log of the sites you visited for all to see and point out that you broke their rules.

Personally, I think you should move on and learn from the experience. I think any sensible lawyer will tell you the same.

Sarah_GG
11-14-2008, 03:37 PM
I'm worried now. Can my boss tell what site I've been looking (wasting valuable time) at. :eek:

Sheila
11-14-2008, 03:43 PM
Linda,
I am sorry u lost your job hun I really am, but big kudos to you for holding your hands up and saying "I WAS IN THE WRONG"

I hope you find employment quickly :hugs::hugs:

Bootsiegalore
11-14-2008, 04:01 PM
I would not have used a company computer.... Personal lap tops with cell cards ar easy to get.

Employers can track your internet and use it any way they want... and with new hiring procedures saying "I am an employee at will" saves them.

Sorry for your dilema but in todays economy any way they can cut employees they will. And suing is expensive, better have $20K cash for a retainer.... etc.

Tara

Bootsiegalore
11-14-2008, 04:04 PM
I'm worried now. Can my boss tell what site I've been looking (wasting valuable time) at. :eek:

Some places take snap shots of the screen on your computer every so-many minutes (4, 10, 15 etc..) and review them.

Just don't do it.

generic shopping sites (department stores) while on break or lunch is ok but only if allowed by policy. Be wary ladies!

Tara

Amy Rose
11-14-2008, 04:15 PM
Wow that sucks.
Get back on your horse and keep trying!

immike
11-14-2008, 04:17 PM
I was recently fired from a large well-known company because I violated their Internet policy. I was terminated for using the Internet for personal use and accessing inappropriate sites. These sites included crossdressing sites (like this one).

I was stunned. Although I knew the policy and I did use the Internet at work to access crossdressing sites (and, as you know, even the non X-rated sites often show girls in various states of undress), I didn't think the sites I accessed were offensive or pornographic. The company disagreed and I lost a good job. Fortunately, I'm 55 years old and we're in the worst economic mess in years so I'm sure finding a new job won't be any problem at all.

A few thoughts:

1) I'm an idiot. I should never have used my work computer to look at crossdressing sites.

2) Although I received good performance evaluations, kept up with my work and often stayed late or came in early to make up for my personal computer time, at some level, I was cheating the company.

3) Be careful. My company had a specific policy about personal use of the Internet so I had no recourse about not knowing the policy. I'm still stunned. I feel like my termination was like getting a 5 year prison sentence for speeding. However, I should have remembered that although we frequent sites like this and have come to accept crossdressing, most people don't. They feel like it's a perversion at best. These are the people who will judge whether you look at inappropriate sites.

4) After being so stupid, I've decided to take a break from cd sites for a while. Not surprisingly, the fun and attraction of cd sites and the idea of dressing don't make up for how stupid I feel about what I did.

5) My wife didn't like my crossdressing before this. You can imagine how she feels now.
Companies nowadays are monitoring what employees are looking at,when they should be
working?

Sasha Anne Meadows
11-14-2008, 04:28 PM
I am so sorry about your job loss dear. You have sympathy. As far as taking legal action you may be limited by the doctorone of "no expectation of privacy." If companies own the network then their monitoring it for policy violations does not invade your privacy thus eliminating that as a cause of action.

Tess
11-14-2008, 05:24 PM
I've been out of the workforce for a half dozen years, but even when I was working the company monitored Internet usage, both for excessive personal use when an employee is on the clock and for inappropriate sites. There are two basic ways to get fired, either for performance or for violating terms of employment. There are various ways to challenge a termination for poor performance but it is more difficult to do so for violating terms of employment, such as violation of company policies or charging the company when you are really doing personal business. If you feel you have grounds, by all means, talk to a lawyer. For all of us, it is a lesson in workplace Internet misuse.

StephanieT
11-14-2008, 05:26 PM
Does your company have a diversity policy. If they do, then all you were doing is browsing a site that validates your diversity. Would they fire somebody because they are browsing an african american diversity web site. I know my company has a diversity policy and support those who have gender diversity. They even have gender diversity support group. Between diversity and your age, the company may be walking on shakey ground.

Annaliese
11-14-2008, 05:33 PM
You lost your job because they were look for ways to down size if we were not in this economic mess you would not have lost your job. This is a heads up to all of us. As I am on my work computer!

Sheila
11-14-2008, 05:36 PM
Does your company have a diversity policy. If they do, then all you were doing is browsing a site that validates your diversity. Would they fire somebody because they are browsing an african american diversity web site. I know my company has a diversity policy and support those who have gender diversity. They even have gender diversity support group. Between diversity and your age, the company may be walking on shakey ground.



I was recently fired from a large well-known company because I violated their Internet policy. I was terminated for using the Internet for personal use and accessing inappropriate sites. These sites included crossdressing sites (like this one).

I knew the policy and I did use the Internet at work to access crossdressing sites

A few thoughts:
3) My company had a specific policy about personal use of the Internet so I had no recourse about not knowing the policy. I'm still stunned.


diversity policy notwithstanding, the company had a policy which Linda acknowledges she abused, she at least holds her hand up to that and I respect her fot it:hugs: hun

VeronicaMoonlit
11-14-2008, 05:49 PM
I'm worried now. Can my boss tell what site I've been looking (wasting valuable time) at. :eek:
Yes, your IT department can tell and can thusly tell your boss. In the simplest of terms, Your company's network is bridged to the internet at large by computers/devices that act as routers. Those machines can keep logs.

Your own machine could be monitored via various methods.

There are ways to try to get around monitoriing but those methods are most likely prevented.

1. Install a remote access client on your computer to allow you to access your computer at home. Such a method is relatively easy but you can still be monitored on the machine itself via keylogger/screenshots/other methods. Thusly your authentication to login to your home machine could be snooped and they could easily tell that you were remote accessing another machine, and could disable your network access. Also you might not be allowed to install a client on your computer.

2. Boot your computer into another operating system then remote access your home machine. That'd stop any software monitoring, but not any possible hardware based monitoring. And again, they'd know you were remote accessing your home machine even if they could't see exactly what you were dong. And like above they probably have prevented your ability to boot from DVD/CD/USB device to prevent you from dong it.

In other words, don't browse sites like this one at work. Even if the text might not be considered "offensive", short skirted trannys showing their garters and stocking tops might be considered not work appropriate.

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

Michelia
11-14-2008, 06:58 PM
Linda Marie,

Do not be so tough on yourself. I thought everyone did that at work. I see all the guys around me accessing NFL sites and ESPN. Do not get me wrong, in my team we all work damn hard. But when I am not in the office and I am sitting somewhere waiting on someone or something I log into my work computer and come here and to some sites that may have pretty edgy pictures. I even have this site saved in My Favorites! I just never saw anything wrong with it as long as I do my work. And I do it and then some.

It all seems so unfair. You definitely got the raw end of the deal. They are cutting you out because of your age. Do try to negotiate a deal with the company so at least they will record you as a resignation and not a firing. Not doing this could cost you down the road.

I am surprised that so many of you do not do this from work. You are so good and smart! Maybe I will not do it anymore. I hope it is not too late. I am 51 and I never took it too seriously because I am overworked and underpaid and my wife and I have a business, so I have back up. But things are hard right now.

I know it is not too much comfort, but thanks for saving some of us. I will change my habits.

I wish you the best of luck.

Sally24
11-14-2008, 07:14 PM
I'm in the "get a lawyer" camp.
Most states are "At Will" employees so we really have very few rights. A good lesson for us all. Things have been slow at work and I've recently been surfing a little too much probably (banking, vacation planning, etc..). Wise to limit your surfing to lunch and home.

Hope your job search goes well. Maybe you'll find that dream job that has been waiting for you!

Jennifer Cox
11-14-2008, 07:34 PM
Even if you were in the wrong, unless this can be considered a gross misdemenour, then they probably should have given you a warning in the first instance. What's the company policy regarding formal warnings etc ?

Jonianne
11-14-2008, 07:52 PM
They could have used this as an excuse to get rid of an old worker too.


You lost your job because they were look for ways to down size if we were not in this economic mess you would not have lost your job. This is a heads up to all of us. As I am on my work computer!

I think these could be very true.

Senban
11-14-2008, 08:07 PM
I am sooooo glad that not only does my place have a pretty relaxed internet usage policy (they even run in-house courses on eBaying so that staff don't get ripped off!) but I also have admin rights on our network because of my job. But even then I'm careful.

Regardless though, sorry to hear about your troubles :(

RylieCD
11-14-2008, 09:11 PM
I have almost lost my job because of internet usage. After a 2 week period where they were investigating others as well I was able to come back to work. But I agree that two weeks, even though paid time off, felt like prison. I never knew if I was going to loose my job and pretty much felt like a criminal.

The company has a internet usage policy and yes they usually have tools that monitor your every move. That is why I never even try to access anything CD related at work.

Shannen
11-14-2008, 11:21 PM
I certainly don't know the wording of the particular policy that was violated here. But I'm pretty sure that you can not enforce a policy differently for different people. They should not be selectively choosing logs to look at. If they review one "users" logs, they should have a procedure in place that reviews ALL users logs.

No, you don't have any expectation of privacy in your workplace.

No, you should not violate policy.

No, an employer cannot pick and choose when/how to enforce a policy! If you were fired for looking at crossdressers.com, then due process would be for them to make available all logs and actions that were taken in the past when crossdressers.com was accessed. Every single user that ever typed crossdresser into a web browser should have been fired!

"Up to and including termination." Is a common phrase. Can they demonstrate that the response to your internet log is consistent with other cases? These are the questions to ask.

In a company I worked for previously, I knew of one individual that got "caught" 3 times surfing porn before he was terminated. They even offered counseling before the termination!!!

At same company I was "notified" by my manager that I was in the top 5 internet users for the previous month. I was doing a project researching web clients for a client/server setup and I was suprised I wasn't #1! I said as much and told him he was welcome to check what sites I was going to.

HE REFUSED TO OPEN THE LOGS! Why? Because the policy did not give him permission to search the logs based on number of hits. If he had found a site that was on the bad list, he may have been forced to act on the information also.

Performance reviews and company policies are there to reward/punish the employee. We all know it's an inside game.... as long as you don't put it in writing, how can anyone prove your motivation was discriminatory?

That's why I stress that statistical analysis of the companies actions based on log review is the only way to level the playing field. That's also why you need to keep track of everything that was said. If it was verbal, maybe a recorder is appropriate if no witnesses are present. Even a mistatement by the manager that fired you could be used if they contradict the policy in their own statement.

Not sure what I would do myself in this situation... It's easy to rant about lawyers and policy... I do feel sorry for your situation. Maybe on Monday a lot of people will be re-reading their company policies???

Best of luck in your job search. :hugs:

Tina B.
11-14-2008, 11:22 PM
I'm worried now. Can my boss tell what site I've been looking (wasting valuable time) at. :eek:

Yes Sarah your boss can see everything you do on his computer, and no matter the site, he can get a pretty good idea how much of his time you are wasting.

Beware, big brother is watching you!

marny
11-14-2008, 11:32 PM
That's a shame hon but I think you knew the answer before you got picked off.

Daphne Renee
11-14-2008, 11:49 PM
sorry to hear that you got fired. Unless you can get a free consultation with a lawyer I am not sure I would go that route. I dont think the company should have fired you but I am not sure that you can really do much about it unless you are willing to put up a lot of money. I hope something better comes along for you.

Kelly DeWinter
11-15-2008, 12:10 AM
Yes, Consult a lawyer first, Don't just accept this. Every company I have ever know, has a procedure for dealing with dicipinary issues. They call it the 1-2-3 policy in MD

1st time verbal warning.
2nd time a written warning
3rd time termination.

A good lawyer (and i do mean a good, hungry mean nasty, I'll will gnaw on your corporate policy type of lawyer) WILL be able to either:

1 Get you reinstated on your job
2 Get you reinstated with back pay
3 Tie them up in knots so bad, that they will offer to settle out of court for a modest sum
4 Get you reinstated with a settlement
5 Get you a HUGH payout
6 or take your money and you recieve nothing

Personaly I WOULD take this to trial, you have nothing more to loose

Just don't wait, usualy there are limitations , on time to bring suit , usualy a year for wrongful termination

KD

victoriamwilliams1
11-15-2008, 12:44 AM
I would seek legal advice on this. I would ask how many employees visit face book, myspace and other social networking sites that also include questionable content. I believe that many business only check logs when they wish to get ride of an employee and this action is used and is common for employees who are making 2 or 3 times more than a new hire.

I do know that all employers check logs periodically and some companies are know to place software hidden on the computer to directly log your Internet activity which includes the time and date.

I will leave it at this as I am one of the checkers of internet activity at my job:) So I stay off of all sites even on my personal PC I bring to work at times as it to will fall under the policy while it is on the companies internet or wifi network.

Brandiwvr
11-15-2008, 12:57 AM
Dear Linda,
i have deep respect for you as you have decided to own your actions. you live in a fire at will state. and that means an employer can fire at will. but am still leaning toward the get a local real attorneys advice. if you dont stand for something you believe in who will and will you regret it later? maybe go to a town a few miles down the road and get a opinion from a good lawyer. again my deep respect is yours. hope you keep communicating with the wife.

karinels
11-15-2008, 01:40 AM
Wow, I never thought so many people think it is ok to use employer supplied appliances for personal use, whether you are being paid at that given time or not. We all get hired to do the job specified, not to do what we want when we want. If you want to do that, start your own business and hire yourself a bunch of self serving flunkies to take advantage of you.

Bottom line, when you are at work, do what they hired you to do, not what you think the company should allow you to do because you graciously let them hire you.

I apploud the starter of this thread for reallizing that she knew, but basically ignored, and got caught, and has to reap the reward.

Scotty
11-15-2008, 02:00 AM
first and foremost - Terribly sorry to hear about your loss!!!

From an IT perspective, those policies are put in place as leverage, had it been CNN.COM they would not have fired you I am sure...

Any company of noteworthy respect DOES monitor where people b rowse to - there is ZERO expectation of privacy!!!

Trust me, they can, and DO read your email, watch where you browse to, and can snoop in your computer without your knowledge.

There are slow days I cruise the web, mainly news and whatnot...and there are legitimate technical sites I visit for information.....

Coming from a crypto background let me put it to you this way:

Just because you are paranoid does NOT mean they are not out to get you!

In other words - be paranoid cautious.......

Suzy Harrison
11-15-2008, 02:13 AM
I'm so sorry you lost your job over this. It does seem to be a very harsh response by your employer. I would have thought a writtern warning would have been in the way to go in this instance.

I have heard of instant dismissal only once before and that was for someone who was looking at very pornographic sites.

While I have my works laptop plugged into the company's network I would never look at any sitethat they would object to. I've always considered they probably read our e-mails and check the sites we look at.

The only exception to that is when I'm away from the office in hotels etc - and then I dial into my own internet server (so nothing is being routed through the companys system). I hope - and maybe someone can confirm this is true - that the company wouldn't know what sites I'm looking at when I'm off site, linkled to a different server - but using a company owned laptop.

My saving grace (I hope) is that the top manager knows that I'm trangendered and is more than happy with it. She knows I access this site for support so I don't think they would take offence.

I hope that something turns up soon for you

:hugs: Suzy

Julogden
11-15-2008, 03:07 AM
Hi Linda,

If other employees have been fired for accessing the Internet where you work, then I'd say that you have no recourse. However, if no one else has been fired and there are other employees known to have used the Internet for personal reasons, you may have a slight chance for fighting this, as there are laws prohibiting discrimination based on gender identity at the city, county and state levels in Chicago.

Good luck!
Carol

Raquel June
11-15-2008, 03:48 AM
How did you get caught? If you didn't get caught with actual pornography on your screen, then what specific policy did you violate? Did they actually just dig through the server logs and fire you for visiting a URL they didn't like?

If you weren't given a warning, that's pretty surprising. Even if you did hit crossdressers.com a few times, that could've just been a link in an email or in some user's feedback on another site that you clicked on. Of course, once they start looking they might see that you were on the same site for a couple hours, and then that's a problem.

In my experience, every employer has some vague policies. If you do your job and do it well, they let just about anything slide. If you're a slacker, they'll find something to fire you for.




Most states are "At Will" employees so we really have very few rights.

That's true, but even in "fire at will" states like Ohio, there are still many lawyers who specialize in wrongful termination lawsuits.

I worked for an IT contractor in 1999. I was pulled off of a major job by a new manager and told to drive 2-ton truck and pack up and move a bunch of office computers on the opposite end of town. The manager delayed me by an hour because he left the lights on and killed the battery in the truck, and then he gave me the wrong directions to the site, and then at the end of the day he fired me for being late (and refused to look me in the eye because he knew he was just trying to cover his butt).

I faxed a letter to the CEO explaining the situation, and when that wasn't responded to I got a lawyer. Long story short, they quickly settled out of court for $5,000 and I found a new job.

So if you were doing your job well and got fired just for visiting a crossdressing site, you should definitely talk to a lawyer.

Delila
11-15-2008, 04:03 AM
Unfortunately most companies have policies about this specific type of thing. Even if you are not violating their internet use rules you may likely be violating some type of sexual harrassment rules. I had to fire an employee because he was looking at Victorias secret website looking for a gift for his girlfriend. Most crossdressing sites on the web contain photos of people dressed in lingerie or nude. It could easily be standard practice to limit access to any of these sites for a number of reasons. There are far too many ways of tracking internet browsing these days to ever consider yourself safe. My wife works for the government and they use keyloggers which can ultimately detect anything even if you use a proxy. The lesson that should probably be learned here is that you should not use a work computer to access anything that you do not want your entire IT department to see.

kittypw GG
11-15-2008, 06:48 AM
Linda,
I am sorry u lost your job hun I really am, but big kudos to you for holding your hands up and saying "I WAS IN THE WRONG"

I hope you find employment quickly :hugs::hugs:

Exactly, don't you go to work to work??? Why do you need crossdressing support when you should be working?

I'll bet your wife is upset. I would be. It just shows that you have lost perspective, If you have to access a crossdressers support site at work then you may be too wrapped up in and out of balance. You got a reality check.

Move on and move toward gaining perspective and balance with this part of your life.

:hugs:
Kitty

StephanieT
11-15-2008, 07:29 AM
The only exception to that is when I'm away from the office in hotels etc - and then I dial into my own internet server (so nothing is being routed through the companys system). I hope - and maybe someone can confirm this is true - that the company wouldn't know what sites I'm looking at when I'm off site, linkled to a different server - but using a company owned laptop.



Suzy,
Cookies, Temporary files, Password autofill, etc will all leave traces of sites you have visited. If you want to make sure the company does not know, you have to clear all of these off of your laptop. Even then there are sophisticated programs that can retrieve deleted files. The only way to be sure is to not use your work computer.

Jennifer Devine
11-15-2008, 07:49 AM
If they don't want workers using their computers to access content such as Adult material or Crossdressing that they shouldn't view then they should have put a block on those particular sites in the first place.

If you fight this though then they could use the fact that you viewed Crossdressing support websites against you and it will make you look bad.
But at least you admitted you were in the wrong.

Do it on your own computer by all means but don't do it again in a work place because if fellow workmates saw you looking at those sites and discovered you're a crossdresser then you could leave yourself open to bullying and you don't want that do you?
Some will understand and some won't.

If you do find employment again try and find somewhere where they have equal opportunities policies because i work for a supermarket in the UK called Tesco and most of them know about my crossdressing and they are accepting of it as long as it doesn't affect the job i do.

bobbi
11-15-2008, 09:05 AM
I applaud you for taking responsibility for what happened. I can't believe some people bringing up the lawyer thing. In my opinion the is the biggest problem in the world today, sue someone or say everyone else does it. The bottom line is you should not have done it and knew that. Quit acting like children, be honest, be responsible for you. If you had won an online lottery for a million dollars would you say everyone else is on the Internet, I should share the money with all of them? I think not, and anyone who says different should think about their honesty.
sorry to hear it happened, now pull up your big girl panties and get on with life.
bobbi

Julogden
11-15-2008, 11:55 AM
I applaud you for taking responsibility for what happened. I can't believe some people bringing up the lawyer thing. In my opinion the is the biggest problem in the world today, sue someone or say everyone else does it. The bottom line is you should not have done it and knew that. Quit acting like children, be honest, be responsible for you. If you had won an online lottery for a million dollars would you say everyone else is on the Internet, I should share the money with all of them? I think not, and anyone who says different should think about their honesty.
sorry to hear it happened, now pull up your big girl panties and get on with life.
bobbi

It all depends. If other employees where she works surf the Internet and don't get fired, then she might have a case to keep her job. I'm not suggesting that she should sue anyone, just think that she should fight to stay employed if she has been singled out for firing simply because someone didn't like the sites she visited. She is protected against anti-TG discrimination here by several laws, so if this is a case of someone not liking her being a crossdresser and firing her solely for that, then her employer has broken laws at the city, county and state level.

If others have been fired for surfing, then she probably has no leg to stand on.

I too think that firing her for the first offense is very harsh, which makes me suspect that there may be some anti-TG bias involved too.

Carol

trisha59
11-15-2008, 12:03 PM
I just had to check my calendar to make sure it wasn't 1968. That company seems a bit backwards to me. As my grandmother always said as one door closes another opens. Good Luck

AmandaM
11-15-2008, 12:15 PM
I'm so sorry. I've been unemployed for a while too. At least try to make sure you can get unemployment! Maybe contact the local LGBT office and speak to one of their attorneys. If you weren't looking at porn, and others surf non-work sites, you may have a case.

PamelaTX
11-15-2008, 12:36 PM
Unless you want to be outed at work, don't use company computers to visit crossdressing sites. Either at work or at home. Browsers can be reconfigured to do absolutely anything. Don't assume, because you think you're doing X, that X is really what's happening. (Deleting all your cookies, for example.) Do a google search on "Spyware" to see what companies can do, and do do, to watch what their employees are doing on line. There are tools out there that will mail the contents of your cache to your boss every time you try to clear it. You can assume that your boss is looking at a snapshot of your screen all the time! Just because your access to a questionable site isn't blocked doesn't mean that your boss didn't receive an E-Mail notice the instant that you went there.

Computers are cheap. Buy an old one at the Goodwill computer store, if you have to. Internet access is cheap too. Sign up for Roadrunner or DSL and keep your private life private.

kittypw GG
11-15-2008, 02:24 PM
I just had to check my calendar to make sure it wasn't 1968. That company seams a bit backwards to me. As my grandmother always said as one door closes another opens. Good Luck

Hello!!!!!!

Work is for work:Angry3: Why in the world would you be crusing any sites non work related???? Seriously why do you have to go to CD sites at work????
This baffels the crap out of me.

I would fire the whole lot of you for wasting my company time crusing the internet unless it is work related or on you own time.

I'm sitting here with my mouth open just shaking my head :eek: that so many of you are crying fowl. Don't any of you do an honest days work???

Kitty

Sammy777
11-15-2008, 02:27 PM
One question comes to mind.

Was this the first time you were approached?

If you were given warnings about doing it before & kept doing it, well duh, you should have stopped.

But if this was a "we have be monitoring you for some time" & here are your walking papers, well then go after them.

I would say at best, visiting unwelcome websites, & general misuse of computer/computer time is a slap on the wrist for the first time, not being outright fired.

You really have to read over their policies to see if a break of any of the rules is reason to terminate on the first occurance.

trisha59
11-15-2008, 03:14 PM
Hello!!!!!!

Work is for work:Angry3: Why in the world would you be crusing any sites non work related???? Seriously why do you have to go to CD sites at work????
This baffels the crap out of me.

I would fire the whole lot of you for wasting my company time crusing the internet unless it is work related or on you own time.

I'm sitting here with my mouth open just shaking my head :eek: that so many of you are crying fowl. Don't any of you do an honest days work???

Kitty

I stand by my comments. I defy you to show me anybody from the CEO on down who spends every second of the work day doing "Company Business" Letting the mind wonder doing harmless activities actually improves creative thought and problem solving. For a company to fire someone who was doing their job, because they logged onto sites like this one is in my opinion is a backwards thinking company.

Shannen
11-15-2008, 07:17 PM
Wow, I never thought so many people think it is ok to use employer supplied appliances for personal use, whether you are being paid at that given time or not. We all get hired to do the job specified, not to do what we want when we want. If you want to do that, start your own business and hire yourself a bunch of self serving flunkies to take advantage of you.

Bottom line, when you are at work, do what they hired you to do, not what you think the company should allow you to do because you graciously let them hire you.

I apploud the starter of this thread for reallizing that she knew, but basically ignored, and got caught, and has to reap the reward.

Not sure advocating a level playing field equals the promoting of the action... I didn't mean to give that impression. Certainly never doing anything against policy would be the best...

Jolene
11-15-2008, 07:18 PM
It sucks to lose your job for any reason.
Where I work there are the " Haves " and the " Have Nots " when it comes to geting by with things at work. I am a " Have Not " but my job does not require Internet use. They did tell us in a meeting there is a No Tolerance Policy on personal internet use but a number of people came to my mind who would get a pass.
Life at work is not fair but the health insurance is good.

kittypw GG
11-15-2008, 07:35 PM
I stand by my comments. I defy you to show me anybody from the CEO on down who spends every second of the work day doing "Company Business" Letting the mind wonder doing harmless activities actually improves creative thought and problem solving. For a company to fire someone who was doing their job, because they logged onto sites like this one is in my opinion is a backwards thinking company.

Ok I disagree that it is a harmless activity. I have lots of co-workers and one in particular comes to mind. He was constantly on sports web sites and the rest of us did his damn job. He kind of got forced out and the internet was banned at his new place of employment because of him. He only got to keep that job because there is a shortage of people in our field.

If you are on non-work related sites you are NOT doing your job and if you are NOT doing your job then someone else IS!!! It is a selfish activity in my opinion.

Lets talk about why you would need to talk about make-up and panties on work time???? I think that says you are obsessed and maybe can't have healthy relationships either. At the very least you might be sort of self absorbed. That is my take on it because I have expirenced it and took up the slack for the selfish internet crusers and a selfish crossdress whose only thought was to get his own needs met. The worst of both worlds in my opinion.

I still think that the original poster has grown and learned a lesson. He has taken responsibility for his actions and earned my respect.
I hope another good job comes along soon.

:hugs:
Kitty

donnalee
11-15-2008, 08:11 PM
DEFINITELY consult an attorney. If there is some form of legal aid where you live, check into that. The first thing you need to find out is if anyone has been terminated within the past year or so, the reasons given, and their status & circumstances. There is little chance the company will divulge this info, so you need to ask anyone at work you've been friendly with. Gather as much information as you can before seeing the attorney. It's obvious age & gender discrimination could be an issue here, so look for a nail to hang this on. I suspect there is more going on here than just internet use policy.
Best of luck,
Donna:hugs:

KellyCD
11-15-2008, 09:06 PM
I'm sorry for you hun.

Portable firefox and a web-based proxy have saved me from stuff like that before even on DOD computers....

Michelia
11-15-2008, 10:56 PM
Exactly, don't you go to work to work??? Why do you need crossdressing support when you should be working?

I'll bet your wife is upset. I would be. It just shows that you have lost perspective, If you have to access a crossdressers support site at work then you may be too wrapped up in and out of balance. You got a reality check.

Move on and move toward gaining perspective and balance with this part of your life.

:hugs:
Kitty

But I have been reading your posts for a long time and I know what you have been through and what a sensible, good-hearted person you are.

And you have made me reflect on this issue with your posts. I have a little business, for example. You made me ask myself how I would feel if my employees were not doing their job but instead of working, they are surfing. I would not like it.

The original poster may not have been abusing her time at work and may have been getting all his work done, but the company does not necessarily know this, nor can it make this evaluation about this on everyone. Also just because we know this site to be clean, it could be seen as a perversion by someone outside our circle.

I still think she had a bad break and the company was harsh to her, but it was obviously within its prerogative.

Thanks for setting us straight, Kitty. I have learned from this thread. Personally I am fed up with my job and how much the company takes advantage of me, but getting fired for something like this would not do me or my family any good, even if I have a business to fall back on.

It is not easy for many of us to find that balance you are talking about. Many times I either totally neglect my crossdressing which only ends up making it come back with a vengeance, or I over do it. I have to remind myself that "it is all fluff out there" and that my family is the only thing that matter and they must come first.

Thank goodness there are people like you to remind us how important it is to "keep it in perspective".

StephanieT
11-16-2008, 08:12 AM
I'm sitting here with my mouth open just shaking my head :eek: that so many of you are crying fowl. Don't any of you do an honest days work???

Kitty
Yes I do an honest days work. My day starts very early so I can communicate with co-workers in Europe, continues with co-workers across the US and ends late with co-workers in Asia. Since I work with people in all time zones, my day is very long. Sometimes I work over a 12-14 hour stretch. If a take some time off during the day to do some browsing, it should not be a big deal. But that is my opinion.

kittypw GG
11-16-2008, 09:27 AM
If a take some time off during the day to do some browsing, it should not be a big deal. But that is my opinion.

The key here is "take time off during work". I could give a rip what people do on their own time. The fact that you actually "take time off" to do your browsing says that you do have your head on straight. To me that says your priority is work, browsing is on your own time. I don't think that this would get you fired nor make your co-workers mad.

:hugs:
Kitty

StephanieT
11-16-2008, 10:07 AM
The key here is "take time off during work". I could give a rip what people do on their own time. The fact that you actually "take time off" to do your browsing says that you do have your head on straight. To me that says your priority is work, browsing is on your own time. I don't think that this would get you fired nor make your co-workers mad.

:hugs:
Kitty

I agree, sometimes I forget that my situation is a little different. If you are an hourly wage employee and are on the time clock. You need to put in your 8 hours. Since I am salaried, I have to do what it takes to get the job done. If that means working extra hours then I do. I also am a teleworker which means I work from home. I get up in the morning make coffee and start working. If I need to have a meeting at night, I just go to my office and have the online meeting. The only issue with being a teleworker is sometime I have a problem separating work and home.:hugs:Steph

Tamara Croft
11-16-2008, 12:32 PM
Hello!!!!!!

Work is for work:Angry3: Why in the world would you be crusing any sites non work related???? Seriously why do you have to go to CD sites at work????
This baffels the crap out of me.I know... seriously.. anyone would think people went to work to get paid for surfing the internet... who woulda thought you could get sacked for it... jeez... You go to work to work, not get paid for surfing websites, so if you got the sack for it, you only have yourself to blame. That would be like me going to do someones nails, taking my laptop with me and said to my client 'hold up a sec, I just want to waste your time, use your internet for free and do some online shopping'... get real... you are being paid to work, it doesn't matter what year it is, I'd sack you as well... *shakes head*

Deidra Cowen
11-16-2008, 01:14 PM
I am truely sorry you got terminated at work. Thats painful and I think I read somewhere that emotionally getting fired ranks up there with some very bad things that can happen in life.

I personally at my office only surf the news usually buisness stuff! Lets say a customer has bad news like shutting down plants or big layoffs. Will call my boss and say hey look at so and so on the net.

I also have a laptop which is a huge temptation on the road. Would be fun as heck to surf CD stuff and all that while boring stuck in a hotel room at night. But I never do that anymore. Some IT people I know warned me a while back.

But I confess!!! My very first company laptop like 10 years ago. I got on racey sites and all that stuff! After figuring out IT would be looking over my computer when I turned it in for a new one...I managed to have someone that worked in IT to totally clean my hard-drive. I was still nervous when I turned it in and learned my lesson.

So as I understand it if you work at a company or hey even the goverment if you are on the network you will get spotted! Then even if on a laptop you have to watch out for when you turn in the computer or lord say it has problems. The IT people are devishly clever on spotting what you have looked at! So avoid any surfing or personal use...esp sites that your org thinks are off limits

By the way at my own work several times after someone left the company the rumor mill with in days was humming about what kinky stuff they had looked at!!!

Vicki65
11-16-2008, 01:25 PM
I'd like to add something that a few have missed.

Delete cookies / history etc as much as you like. It doesn't matter. If your company has more than a few employees, they will almost certainly access the internet via a gateway on a server. It is easy to set up a log (my company does) which records each and every address visited by each and every PC on your network. If you have your own PC on your desk, its pretty easy to trace useage back to you.

Every place I've worked has operated a similar policy on personal internet useage. It seems they turn a blind eye to surfing at lunchtimes etc, but would be less than happy to see you using it all day and / or visiting sites regarded as 'specialised' shall I say. This site, rightly or wrongly, could count as such a site.

Also, it is impossible to 'clean' a drive beyond recovery. I know someone who works in computer forensics, and he tells me the only safe way to make sure data can never be accessed is to physically destroy the disk. ie, a big hammer!

Julogden
11-16-2008, 03:30 PM
Snipped for brevity.

I still think she had a bad break and the company was harsh to her, but it was obviously within its prerogative.



I fully agree that her employer was very harsh for a first occurrence, but I'm not sure that they handled the situation properly and may have violated laws.

I think several people are missing a point here: if she was the only employee fired on the first offense for surfing during work, and others were known to be surfing but at non-T sites and weren't fired, then she should fight to keep her job because, as I mentioned, the city of Chicago has a law prohibiting discrimination based on real or perceived gender identity, as does Cook County and also the state of Illinois, so if she was fired only because of the nature of the sites she visited, then that's discrimination, and she should fight it, as her employer violated laws at 3 levels.

She was definitely wrong for surfing on her employer's time, and surfing T-related sites isn't a good idea at work if you want to remain stealthy, but you need to look at the whole situation.

Carol

Bev06 GG
11-16-2008, 03:42 PM
Oh dear Linda,
I am so sorry to hear that news. Its funny isn't it, what we feel is perfectly normal the rest of society are still struggling with and think of us as some kind of perverts.
I know of another person who got caught out in a similar situation. He was a teacher and he lost his job. Although I am not in the slightest bit ashamed of my partner I do worry that if he were to be found out whether or not my job would be safe because I work within the Childcare Sector. I hadn't realized just how many dinosaurs there are out there who genuinly believe that all CDs are sexually premiscuous perverts and a real threat to society.
Take care and hope you do soon find another job
Bev

serinalynn
11-16-2008, 03:49 PM
I, too would like to say I.m sorry that you lost your job, right now is not a good time to be unemployed. However,

When ever you use a company owned computer, your online activity/usage is or can be monitored. If you are accessing websites that your company or I.T. department considers offensive, you as a user of the company owned computer can be diciplined or fired for that activity. If you want to surf the internet go home and surf there.

Shelly Preston
11-16-2008, 03:58 PM
The company may not have fired her for the sites she was surfing

The misuse of company time is the problem

Yes the sites can be a contributory factor and in extreme cases cause dismissal depending on the company policy

I do hope another job opportunity comes along soon

Kerrie Sifton
11-16-2008, 04:42 PM
I own my own company and would not want my staff wasting time accessing the inernet when they should be working. Facebook is one of my pet peeves.
However in Alberta termination requires certain steps, and it cant be based on frivolous reasons. Particularly if the individual has been with the company for many years, immediate dismissal for violation of internet rules without prior warnings... well it would not wash. And termination payment would be required.
To lose your job at 55 is an issue, recovering both employment and your relationship with your spouse will take time, I wish you the best.

As for the rest of us, it is a lesson to be learned. Our community needs to support oneanother, the internet is a fabulous tool for this. Sometimes we need support at work, and sometimes at home. It is nice just to chat with others or view info that makes you feel comfortable in your own skin.
However, if the company does not approve, then we may just have to get our own computers, to keep up the contact.

All the best in the months to come. You have my support.
:hugs:

Melinda G
11-16-2008, 05:17 PM
Sorry you lost your job. It sounds a little exteme to me. They could have given you a warning, or reprimand the first time. They may have been looking to layoff some people, and you gave them the perfect excuse.

My old girlfriend had a rather crude saying, "You don't shit, where you eat"! She had a way with words.