To be or not to be ... in the closet

[Nadia-Maria]

I would like to know more about the closet phenomenon.

How many of us have ever (or never) been deeply in the closet ?
How many of us are no more in the closet ?
etc. etc.

Sorry, if this poll may appear a little complicated. That's because I'm looking for a clue, trying to estimate the balance closetters vs. non-closetters and its evolution over time.

Thank you in advance for your participation.

[Rachel_CDS]

I really don't know how to answer this poll, Nadia-Maria!

My wife has known about my crossdressing for nearly 20 years (before we married 18 years ago and is generally very supportive.

Would my option be "I am in the closet ; however someone else (or very few) may know" or "I am no more in the closet (I was once deeply) since more than 15 yrs".

I suspect others may have difficulty answering your poll!

[Nadia-Maria]

I really don't know how to answer this poll, Nadia-Maria!

My wife has known about my crossdressing for nearly 20 years (before we married 18 years ago and is generally very supportive.

Would my option be "I am in the closet ; however someone else (or very few) may know" or "I am no more in the closet (I was once deeply) since more than 15 yrs".

I suspect others may have difficulty answering your poll!


You are no more in the closet, it seems.

I wanted to make a distinction between :
. deeply in the closet = I'm sure nobody knows
. not deeply in the closet = so that, MAYBE, without being aware of it, someone may know that I CD (maybe a neighbour...) = I can't be sure that nobody knows, or probably someone may know.

[avril findlay]

I put "I am no more in the closet, I never was deeply". I've always been out to my family and I've been out to friends for a few years now. I estimate I dress fully about 70% of the time so I think my choice is the one that comes closest to applying to my situation.

[Rachel_CDS]

Thanks Nadia-Maria. I have now put "I am no more in the closet (I was once deeply) since more than 15 yrs".

[Susan4]

I came 'out' to my fiancee before we married and, in theory, she has known for more than 30 years. As she is un-supportive, however, we now have a don't ask, don't tell lifestyle. I am 'out', these days to a few CD friends and a few SAs in stores where I shop .. but to no one else. I mostly dress in private ... but I go 'out' in public on occasion.

So how would your survey best classify me?

I said I was in the closet but out to a few people.

Good luck ... hope you get the insight you're looking for.

Hugs

[Nadia-Maria]

Avril, OK, you did the right choice for the poll.



I came 'out' to my fiancee before we married and, in theory, she has known for more than 30 years. As she is un-supportive, however, we now have a don't ask, don't tell lifestyle. I am 'out', these days to a few CD friends and a few SAs in stores where I shop .. but to no one else. I mostly dress in private ... but I go 'out' in public on occasion.

So how would your survey best classify me?

I said I was in the closet but out to a few people.

Good luck ... hope you get the insight you're looking for.

Hugs

In some ambiguous cases, it's a matter of appreciation.

With a "don't ask don't tell" lifestyle, it can be considered as a closet-like style, especially if you are obliged to hidden your stuff. Yet obviously it's not a "deep" closet.

However, since you go 'out' and you meet other CDs, I would say you are no more in the closet.

Hugs

[Karren H]

I never had a closet to call my own...

:(

and my wife has known for 3 years now.... I've been going out enfemme for almost 5 years.... and I'm never ever going back... There....

[tanya1976]

I'm out of the closet in so much as my girlfriend, and her friends, know but I don't see the reason to tell my male friends as I'm not sure if it's really relevant to our friendship...

[Marjory]

I was in the closet through my teens although I'm sure my mother and sister knew. Came out of closet to x wife and had 7 good years then divorced. Lived with a woman for eight years and dressed in almost everything but the word CD never came up... guess if you don't say it it doesn't exist. Am back in closet with present wife although I wear keds, women's sneaks and loafers openly.

[jasmine57]

I'm still pretty much in the closet although a several of my GG friends know about me. I'm looking to take it to the next level in the near future but for right now, I'm happy with just a select few knowing about me.

[Deborah Jane]

I,ve been in and out of the closet so often it,s got a swing door :heehee:

[sissystephanie]

I really wasn't sure how to answer this poll. I was definitely in the closet when I started CD'ing at age 8 or 9. Pretty much remained in the closet until I married my late, lovely and supportive wife. I guess I am still in the closet in some ways. My daughter knows, but doesn't want to see me dressed. My son doesn't know, and because of his wife won't be told. None of my friends know, except my darling GGF who supports me. But I do go out in public as a guy dressed as a female all the time. Not just underdressed (panties and bra), but completely feminine. Just no wig or makeup. Call me crazy, or whatever, but I like wearing feminine things and do whenever I can!

Stephanie

Lady on the outside, but man underneath!

[Crissy Kay]

Only my wife and a cd friend of mine know. I prefer to keep it that way.

[docrobbysherry]

I spend so much time on line here and in my closet, that I had to put a computer in there so I could locate all my CD activities conveniently in one place!:D

[trannie T]

For the past several years I have slowly been crawling out of the closet. I have been going out for over ten years and have told a few people. There is a wonderful world beyond the closet door.

[Charlotte Sometimes]

I am working on getting out of my closet but must be careful as I have a position where CDing would be career ending but I am dedicated to get out in public even if I have to travel to do so.

[Nadia-Maria]

. A majority of the respondents (70%) are at the moment in the closet,
what corresponds to the traditional perception of most CDers being in the closet,
. however only 17% are deeply in the closet, wheras the remaining 53% are in a softer situation.
What may contradict the common view of most CDers beeing DEEPLY in the closet.

. The most striking finding of the poll is that among the 30% who are at the moment not in the closet, 24% have been once deeply in the closet.
What means that being in the closet in no fatality.
Many CDers will escape it, sooner or later (16 out or 27 in our sample).

Curiously, being in softer closet is a situation which seems often to be judged acceptable, since very few would escape it (only 2 out of 37 in our sample ! !) .


Whereas having been deeply in the closet seems to trigger a huge frustation that can often lead later to sucessful attempts to relieve it.

We happen to read from people telling us that the number of regular CDers are vastly understimated due to most of them being lifelong deeply in the closet. This poll doesn’t support at all this intuition.

Instead, you can see outside almost a third of all the CDers or so. And the fact is you can see very few. Multiplying their number by 3 or 4 will not reach a huge number for all CDers, hidden or not.

As for myself I would highly question figures higher than 1 or 2% of the general population for regular CDers. Of course I speak for CDers who CD several times a year for several years, not for the guy who has ever worn a skirt twice in his life.

Regular CDers are not so common than gay people. It's another reason why they would need to speak much louder to make themselves as well known as gay people.

Let's see if these results may be confirmed by a greater number of respondents, because our sample is at the moment very small.

[Emily Anderson]

I would like to qualify my response (very few people know) by saying that only a few people know because:

a) It's very few people's business anyway.
b) I had very little support when younger.
c) I left it too long in life to come out in a big way, due to prolonged procrastination, wives, kids, etc.
d) I'm a big fat cow now, so it's not very flattering for me to start trying to look like I would have wanted to at an earlier age at this stage.

You wanted an honest answer?

[Veronica27]

Hi Nadia

I think of myself as being in the closet, but I had difficulty finding one of your situations that fit neatly into my case. My wife knows, and has known for about 20 years. This represents "coming out" to her, but in fact simply includes her in my closet. In the past two years, I have attended several CD events and met many other CDers who I do not really know outside of those venues. In addition I have been seen by many total strangers at these events, but am I really out of the closet if my wife is still the only person who actually knows me and is aware that I am a crossdresser?

I answered that I am in the closet; however someone else knows.

Veronica

[Jennifer Marie P.]

I was in the closet when I was younger and have been going out enfemme now for 3 years thanks to my GG friends.

[Samantha43]

I like my closet, it's warm and comfy! My wife does know and is very supportive.

[Nadia-Maria]

Hi Nadia

I think of myself as being in the closet, but I had difficulty finding one of your situations that fit neatly into my case. My wife knows, and has known for about 20 years. This represents "coming out" to her, but in fact simply includes her in my closet. In the past two years, I have attended several CD events and met many other CDers who I do not really know outside of those venues. In addition I have been seen by many total strangers at these events, but am I really out of the closet if my wife is still the only person who actually knows me and is aware that I am a crossdresser?

I answered that I am in the closet; however someone else knows.

Veronica

Hi Veronica,

See my answer (post #7) to Susan4 ; I would consider you now as out of the closet.

You have the ability to come out to other people, you have done it to some of them, but you choose not to come out to everybody. So do I.

[Phyliss]

The span of 3 to 15 yrs seems a bit long, but since I've been out for almost 4 years now I put myself there.

Hopefully by "out of the closet" you mean wife and family "know" , although I've been out in public a number of times, I don't yet walk around town fully dressed. Nor do I go to work "dressed" .

[tanyalynn51]

since I have been doing this for so many years, I feel like Im so far in the closet that I cant even see the light under the door.:sad:

[sherib]

I'm in the closet, but I've come to the conclusion from reading this and other post about people in or out of the the closet. If the spouse is acceptible with your dressing, its easier for you to be out of the closet. If the spouse is does not accept, your are in the closet. You don't want anythinfk to upset the house hold. Or If there is absolutly, positivily no way you can pass, your deep in the closet. Who wants to look ridiculess in public.

[TGMarla]

:DI see that there are more of us closet dwellers than just about all others combined. Yet there are still so many of us that claim to be out and about in the world. Some even look on in-the-closet folks as second in stature to the full blown out and about crossdressers. This should never be the case, and the numbers prove it. So many of us, for so many reasons, have chosen to keep this part of our lives private. And the biggest of these reasons need no justification or explanation. It's obvious.

I greatly admire, and even envy, those girls who have managed to make a decent go of it out in the big world. You know who you are. Many have told me that I should get out more, and have assured me that I would pass, for the most part, quite easily. This may or may not be the case, but again, for many reasons, I keep this part of myself to myself with the exception of this forum. My wife knows, but she doesn't participate, and it would seem that she does not want anything to do with it. She only rarely even references it, and when she does, the conversation dies on the vine.

So although my wife knows, my extended family is aware of it due to a couple of slip ups (and some big-mouthed nephews), and I've been out as Marla for an evening once, I still consider myself in the closet. I really don't have much of a problem with that, and it certainly makes life less stressful for both me and my wife. I'll venture out again one of these days when the opportunity is right. But I doubt I'll attempt plane travel like Suzy and Kimberly, or get a job like TamaraV. Kudos to you girls! I'm doing fine where I am. Perhaps we'll meet one day. :D

[Alana65]

I voted.........I am in the closet ; however someone else (or very few) may know.
It appears right now that I'm in the majority.

[Tess]

Another one who is deeply in the closet. I can imagine a situation where I would come out but it isn't likely to happen.

[Alice Torn]

In the closet, but go out about once a year. Told a few friends. Shouldn't have told one woman in church. She said if I don't tell anyone about her gay son, she wouldn' tell about me dressing. NOT!!! sHE ADMITTED THAT SHE TOLD SOMEONE AT CHURCH! Now, the pastor, and an elder want to talk with me this week! I only hope it is about some other thing they want to afvise me on!

[kimmy p]

Well I have only once ever came out and told anyone, nearly 15 years ago. But if my closest friends haven't guessed or at least suspected by now then I'm surprised. Dressing for Halloween many times, and doing it to well. My formerly long hair, earrings, subtly fem shoes, obvious pantyhose, a penchant for pink clothing..... Some day I won't hide anymore. But currently for my wife's sake I stay somewhat in the closet.

[erickka]

I'm with the majority of you girls. Wifey and a chosen few know. Don't intend on letting the cat out of the bag any farther any time soon.

[crystal99]

I am so majorly in the closet, so far in fact that it's snowing and i'm sat chatting with a talking lion xx

Ive looked for ways out but the lions not helping, suppose i better wrap up xx

[Jess_cd32]

I picked #2 currently at 55%, my SO has an idea I dress but not an idea of how much, which should be changing soon.

[Heather Dur]

Number 2 without a question, though the closet is getting filled up with cloths. As I get older, and realize time does have a limit, have a desire to get out more and more. Being a CD is such a major part of my being, I do wish I could share it more with others, however there is always that fear of rejection or social stigma attached to dressing. Too bad.

[il.dso]

Mostly the closet for me, unfortunately.
Fortunately, this website makes me feel like I'm coming out of the closet...

[sometimes_miss]

Lets see: Until I was 39, no one knew. Since then, my ex wife (who threatened to tell everyone and provide pictures if I didn't give her what she wanted in the divorce), mother, sister, two friends who are no longer friends, and two co workers from somewhere I no longer work, each of which had something to hide as well. At present, I am deeeeeeeeep in the closet. Mom denies it, sister pretends it never happened, I no longer have any contact with the others.

[Jamie001]

The closet is a very dark and lonely place. :2c:


Lets see: Until I was 39, no one knew. Since then, my ex wife (who threatened to tell everyone and provide pictures if I didn't give her what she wanted in the divorce), mother, sister, two friends who are no longer friends, and two co workers from somewhere I no longer work, each of which had something to hide as well. At present, I am deeeeeeeeep in the closet. Mom denies it, sister pretends it never happened, I no longer have any contact with the others.

[jessielee]

deeply, deeply.
only all of you know.
my little girl wondered why i choose the long pigtailed female motorcycle rider who looks like Angelina Jolie when we go head to head but guessed its because of my long hair.
keep 'em guessing!
its 'cause they don't have a rider who is a chicken.
jessie

[Rachel Morley]

Hi Nadia,

I voted: I am no more in the closet (I was once deeply) since 3-15 yrs

I have been out of the closet and slowing progressing across the room for the last 6 years. :) Back when I was in the closet I was single, I lived on my own, I didn't tell anyone, I stayed at home at lot, and I only owned one outfit which I wore maybe once or twice a month.

[Kelly DeWinter]

I'm in TWO closets !

[PortiaHoney]

In the closet, but go out about once a year. Told a few friends. Shouldn't have told one woman in church. She said if I don't tell anyone about her gay son, she wouldn' tell about me dressing. NOT!!! sHE ADMITTED THAT SHE TOLD SOMEONE AT CHURCH! Now, the pastor, and an elder want to talk with me this week! I only hope it is about some other thing they want to afvise me on!

Maybe they are looking for tips??????

Hope it went well..

:hugs:Portia

[Jamie001]

Lucille,

Please let us know how it goes. Did they bring-up the subject of crossdressing?

:hugs: Jamie



In the closet, but go out about once a year. Told a few friends. Shouldn't have told one woman in church. She said if I don't tell anyone about her gay son, she wouldn' tell about me dressing. NOT!!! sHE ADMITTED THAT SHE TOLD SOMEONE AT CHURCH! Now, the pastor, and an elder want to talk with me this week! I only hope it is about some other thing they want to afvise me on!

[Crystal Galadriel]

Looks like mine is the popular answer, over 50%, seriously in the closet but one or two might know.

I almost went with the no one know option, but my parents have walked in on my at least twice when I was younger, and I'll be telling my SO soon, so even if I do count as "no one knows" right now, I'll be at the "someone knows" stage before long.

EDIT: 100TH POST!!!1one (I like milestones)

[Jocelyn Quivers]

Once very very deeply in the closet. I've since been out to a few family members and that's it.

[Nadia-Maria]

Hi all,

I feel the time is proper to update this poll’s preliminary results (see #18 in this thread from 66 voters).
At the moment we got almost 3 times more voters, whereas most of the percentages have remained quite similar ever since.
What have to mean some consistency in our data. :2c:

Hence my initial comments about the results must gain more validity.
Here is a more accurate wording of them.


. Most MTF CDers (130 out of 178, almost 3 in 4) consider they are at the moment in the closet, what may correspond to the traditional perception of most CDers being in the closet. This is an indication favouring the view our sample may be somewhat representative of the whole CDers population.
Moreover 97% of us (173 out of 178, hence almost all) have ever been in the closet (after being just a child).

. But among the closetted CDers, only about 1 in 4, what is 1 in 5 of all CDers (33 out of 178) are still DEEPLY in the closet : « nobody knows ».

. About 1 in 4 of all CDers has succeeded in coming out of the closet and is no more in (43 out of 178).
This adds to the happy few (5 out of 178, what is only 3%) of the CDers who have never been in the closet.

.The most intriguing finding of the poll maybe this one :
if you have ever been deeply in the closet (nobody knew), you have in life way more chances to come out of your closet, than if you have always been in a softer closet, more comfortable (a few others may know and you may even go outside femme sometimes).

The figures are here beyond doubt :
Whereas 36 out of 69 (52%) have come out of their once deep closet,
only 7 out of 104 (7%) have come out of their softer closet.

Note, however, this can be also an indication there is some disagreement about what means being really « out of the closet ». Because it is essentially a matter of subjective appreciation, since no definition was given in this poll.

I would suggest for a more precise definition of being in the closet :
. whenever either wife/SO (and/or childs) doesn't know, or doesn't want to see you dressed, OR you never meet other CDers femme outside (in clubs for example).

Whereas whenever the wife knows and accepts AND the CDer is able to meet other TG people outside, you are no more in the closet.


Being out of the closet does not mean – in my interpretation – that you would come out to everybody as for instance a TG 24/24 7/7. Due to the social spirit about CDing it is just safe to carefully choose to whom you want to come out.

Another very interesting remark, yet supported by a smaller number of voters, is the distribution of people who ever left their deep closet.

In the last 3 years ( 2006-2008) in our sample no less than almost 4 CD per year have come out.
Whereas in each of the 12 years before 2006 (1994-2005), the rate was only slightly above 1 CD/yr.
In the years before 1993, the rate had to be still much less than 1 CD/yr ; (taking in account all factors, such as the present age as an average of the participants in this forum).

What meets the conventional thinking, that coming out and being openly a CD today is much easier than 20 or 30 years ago. :battingeyelashes:

And, sisters, this might be one of the best reasons to hope and believe in our bright future ! :hugs: :love:

Kisses

[Jonianne]

.......my ex wife (who threatened to tell everyone and provide pictures if I didn't give her what she wanted in the divorce)........



Whereas whenever the wife knows and accepts AND the CDer is able to meet other TG people outside, you are no more in the closet........Being out of the closet does not mean – in my interpretation – that you would come out to everybody as for instance a TG 24/24 7/7. Due to the social spirit about CDing it is just safe to carefully choose to whom you want to come out........

My ex wife is the one who forced me out of the closet. That was about 10 - 12 years ago. Like in "sometimes_miss" situation, she threatened to tell everyone, so I told most of the important people in my life. The next time she threatened me, I told her to go ahead, I've already told them.

My wife now is the one who took me out for the first time. She said Joni needs to feel the sun on her face. She also went with me to my first Tri-ess meetings.

I keep it fairly private and don't tell everyone, but I am so glad that most people who know me more than surface deep, know that I do crossdress and still accept me.

[Joanne f]

It`s a bit difficult to explain ( OK i hear you say another load of crap from joanne) but i will forgive you :D.
I can`t say that i was ever in the closet as i have always worn something that was made for females but at the time never thought of it as cross dressing , then lets just say i became out to everyone and now for certain reasons i have become androgynous most of the time , but given the chance i still love to go all the way at home , but i will make no secret of what i do if anyone ask`s.



joanne

oh sorry meant to add i think that there is a lot more involved to coming out of the closet than just time , you also have to take into account where you live, WHO you live with, what country you are in even how you your self perceives the phenomenon of cross dressing and how you think others will perceive it, and i am sure a lot of other things.

[pink femme]

Closet for me although I do have a close GG that knows and helps from time to time. Without her I would just be so down.

Can't come out of the closet becuase there are too many people that would be hurt and families would be destroyed. My ultimate need to be/feel like a woman has to be surpressed until the day I die.

Still, at least forums like this give me a chance to talk and discover that there are so many other "girls" out there and long may that continue.

[Nadia-Maria]

My ex wife is the one who forced me out of the closet. That was about 10 - 12 years ago. Like in "sometimes_miss" situation, she threatened to tell everyone, so I told most of the important people in my life. The next time she threatened me, I told her to go ahead, I've already told them.

My wife now is the one who took me out for the first time. She said Joni needs to feel the sun on her face. She also went with me to my first Tri-ess meetings.


Beyond the emotional feelings your testimony conveys, and which ones I can share deeply with you :hugs:

I found your testimony as very interesting also because it sheds light about one of the reasons that may trigger someone to come out of the closet.
And this very reason doesn't confirm the hypothesis I suggested in #18 of this thread (prelimanary analysis oif the poll's results) :

<< Whereas having been deeply in the closet seems to trigger a huge frustation that can often lead later to sucessful attempts to relieve it. >> :o


As for myself I divorced about 6 years ago from a devil GG of the most manipulative sort, who might have behaved herself much like your ex, would I have had ever come out to her.

I'm now convinced she would have be the one to wholly accept my CDing, and even highly cooperate, had I come out to her at the beginning of (or just before) our marriage. But I remained so deeply in the closet that, even being unrespectful of my privacy when I was out, she was not able to discover about my CDing for the last 10 yrs we had to remain married (I fully abandonned CDing for the first years, eventually till she lost almost every interest in sex with me).

And from what she did (truely a most devil behaviour ...) during our divorce, it's obvious she would have tell everybody including where I was working, ending in the probable losing of my job !

[Slip Affinity]

I answered #2. Wife knows and is ok with it. I think our kids might know but none of them has ever said anything.

[suzypier]

I always been deep in the closet. I take all the opportunity to dress when my GF is away on vacation. Been in the public once on halloween at the next town and driving a few times at night. Still to shy to cross the line. :o