Why lie to your SO/wife?

None of you may like what this thread says and it's probably extremely harsh but *shrug* it's the truth and I will not apologize for any hurt feelings



I just don't get it. I see a lot of "My SO/Wife found out and she's pissed" threads and I keep thinking to myself "Well what did you expect?". Seriously. What do you expect when it comes to light that you've been lying/hiding something from someone who thought they could trust you? Did you expect her to jump for joy? Quite honestly, to expect anything less than a total meltdown is delusional.


And then to have the gall to think that they should go to counseling to be made to accept something they have no desire to want any part of? That just seems to me to be extremely selfish.

Yes fine, sometimes it works out. But I'd wager those instances are exceptions to the rule.


If you can't be honest with the person you're with then you shouldn't be with that person. This is one of those things that should be brought up BEFORE the other person starts to have feelings for you so they can have the choice of wanting to be apart of it or not.....not after. Not telling her you bite your toenails is one thing. Not telling her you like to dress and act like a women when she's not home is another.



Rant off

If you have to sneak around doing something then you probably shouldn't be doing it. I'm one of the lucky ones that doesn't have the dressing problem-ever.
Jon

Just a side observation: couples counseling is never about getting one person "straightened out" -- it's about getting couples to come to a mutual understanding. It doesn't work otherwise.

Wow.
The divorce rate would sky rocket.
Many many closeted CD out there.
And DADT relationships. They can only sneak around. Unless maybe they don't like to see thier kids due to a divorce.

Yes...and what DonnaS states is so tragically true

Agree with Jennie 100%. Counseling can work, if both parties want it to. But it is about understanding and finding a place that works for both. Maybe that place can't be found, and if that's the case, then perhaps there is only one route left. But don't be afraid to try.

That said, I do agree that if this is so important to you, it should be brought up early rather than hiding it. Once you hide it, it becomes a Pandora's box, and can never be closed when opened, no matter how hard you try.

OK let's look on it tis way, it's hardly something you can just casually drop into a conversation with your new girlfriend over lunch, is it?

"Oh by the way babe, I like to wear women's clothes, high heels and makeup. I even own a pair of silicone breast forms. Hope you understand. Please don't tell anyone, not even your BFF".

Demonise people who already feel enough guilt and shame about their CD'ing finding it difficult enough to come out the girly closet all you like for not being automatically out and proud with it. But who's to say that not only will she not accept it and leave him, but also tell her friends who might tell his friends and his family about it too, who is also maybe on her and their Facebook?

I am relatively new to this and so far haven't told my new girlfriend who I met shortly after, god knows I want to, so I will find out first how she really feels about being with anyone who dresses, before I decide to tell her my secret. I need to understand how she thinks first before I allow her to know my big secret.

If she tells me she wouldn't accept it, then I will not tell her and stop my CD'ing for her if we decide to move in together, and nobody will get hurt. But I can't judge a guy who would find it more difficult to stop and/or too fearful of everyone finding out. We still live in a highly intolerant prejudiced society regarding straight guys who CD that it is actually easier to come out as gay and even to be a camp gay crossdresser than this. Well, unless he has a boyfriend/husband maybe.

Nobody is perfect, and you, me and everyone else find it tough enough to fully feel accepted in this intolerant society. Straight guys have so many more expectations thrust upon them that any deviations still seem unacceptable today. Can't wear pink, can't drink sherry. Bah!

Yes we know dishonesty is destructive, but instead of pointing accusing shaming fingers, which will likely send many to purge against their will again, let's just show some kindness and a little more understanding and support, asking why many can't just come out loud and proud so easily. Help them make the right decisions. If the damage has already been done, judging them more won't help in anyway, but might make him feel even more alone if they feel judged within the only safe haven they thought they had.

Just saying.

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Originally Posted by donnaS

Wow.
The divorce rate would sky rocket. ..

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Originally Posted by arial

Yes...and what DonnaS states is so tragically true

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No. This is a myth just like cross dressers are gay. This is a great excuse to not come clean but there is no data to support this thesis. If you use this site alone as a proxy, divorces are not CAUSED by cross dressing. Cross dressing becomes the excuse to get out of a bad relationship. Just as the GG's here. Event he ones who are divorced say that cross dressing was not the reason.

Interesting perspectives...

Fact: More than half of all marriages end in divorce... (for the USA and UK, amongst others)
Implication: Something was wrong or went wrong in those 50%+ of marriages for that to happen...
Extrapolation: I'd guess a lot of the remaining undissolved marriages also have issues with lies, affairs, incompatibility, abuse, etc. but they stay together because most people can't be arsed to do anything about it (I know couples in those marriages...)
Further Extrapolation: A teeny-tiny percentage of those issues are around being TG or CDing
Conclusion: The vast majority of marriages have a good dose of lies, cheating, compromise, blah, blah, blah... NOTHING to do with our little predilections...

I'm not out to my SO because I don't need to be. I take responsibility for what I do and I intend to safeguard/ compartmentalize this aspect of me for as long as it takes or I change my mind. Not all of us have the relative luxury of being TG-lite - those of us that do have choices that others don't and while I feel for them(you) it doesn't mean we all have to make the same sacrifices - sorry...

Everybody lies...

Katey x

Perhaps you don't get to keep up with the other threads on the forum. But this subject has been brought up many times before. I understand that the search function doesn't work all that well, so let's go over it again.
First:

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Originally Posted by Jenniferathome

. Event he ones who are divorced say that cross dressing was not the reason.

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Don't you read other people's comments at all? Crossdressing was THE reason my wife divorced me, and I've written that every time we discuss this. It even becomes a topic discussed by many others who've gone through this as well.
Now.
I can't speak for everyone, but there are quite a number of us who had stopped crossdressing for a long time, in my case many years, before I started dating my wife to be. I really thought that I had 'beaten it'; that it was just a phase I had gone through. It was in the past, so just like, oh, someone who had killed a hundred of the enemy in a war, it simply wasn't something that I felt I needed to bring up. No one tells their SO everything; we tell what we think we should tell, what we think they need to know. Crossdressing? Something we did in the past? Why burden her with that? I was molested for seven years, should I tell her all about that in detail too? Of course not. At that point, I was perfectly functional normally. I had a good job, I could have sex just as well as anyone else. Things were good. And, had I not lost my job and wound up in turmoil, I'd probably still be married with kids already grown. But things don't always turn out the way we want.

Besides, women don't tell us everything either. They do the same; they tell us what they want us to know (though, my ex didn't tell me stuff either, things she should have, so we're pretty even on the 'what should have been told' list', but of course she didn't see it that way, she, too, thought what she hid wasn't important).

The problem that arises, is that when it's going on, we don't understand what they want to know, and neither the reverse is true either. The problem becomes great when they decide that we deceived them, and what they might have deceived us about isn't of the same importance, so they feel entitled to be more upset than we are, forgetting that each person is the only one who can decide what they, themselves will be upset about.

So there you have it. Just because we erred on what we figured the women would be so upset about, doesn't give them the reason to go ballistic. Everyone makes mistakes, and, we all ARE still the same person they married; we haven't changed. The only change is in how they decide to interpret who and what we are. The change isn't in us. It's in THEM. And they blame us for that. And that isn't fair, either.

Let me address this:

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Originally Posted by donnaS

Wow.
The divorce rate would sky rocket.

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you miss the point. It would sky rocket because you lied. HOWEVER, if you had honest upfront the marriage (if you allowed you SO to decide for herself instead of taking it upon your self to hide it to start with) would be just as strong or stronger. The lie started long before the marriage usually but even if this was something you decided after getting married, keeping it from her is unfair and controlling. You see, SOs have minds. You may THINK you know what is best for both of you but you don't. And NOT allowing her to make her own decision is... well manipulative

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Many many closeted CD out there.

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their choice. They choose to be in the closet for a myriad of reasons. Some very sound. But hiding it from the SO isn't a good reason. You will be caught. In fact I would bet that most already have and the SO is ignoring it hoping you will tell them OR it will go away

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And DADT relationships. They can only sneak around. Unless maybe they don't like to see thier kids due to a divorce.

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Definition of DADT...The SO KNOWS, you don't flaunt it. It implies the So already has knowledge OR you have an understanding. Not getting into the whole "not seeing kids because of divorce" because first THAT is just as manipulative as sneaking and two, courts in the US won't use crossdressing against you in visitation or custody

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

First:

Don't you read other people's comments at all? Crossdressing was THE reason my wife divorced me, and I've written that every time we discuss this. It even becomes a topic discussed by many others who've gone through this as well.
Now.

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going to throw an objection to this. It isn't the crossdressing (and you are quoting the crossdressers reasons, read the GGs reasons) It is the LIE and the lack of trust that leads to divorce

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Originally Posted by Laurana

This is one of those things that should be brought up BEFORE the other person starts to have feelings for you so they can have the choice of wanting to be apart of it or not.....not after.

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I wouldn't necessarily say your opinion is wrong, but what of those of us who truly believed they didn't need to dress any more when they met their future wives only for the desire to surface again many years later. It's not always that simple and Kimberley May sums up reasons why many don't.

Everyone has there own reasons why they did or didn't confide in there SO about their secret. From a culture standpoint and depending on what generation you are from this may or may not dictate what you are willing to share with your SO. Believe me I’m not trying to offer up an excuse here, rather its just an observation based on society's rules. I grew up in the 80’s and in a catholic household where an activity such as cross dressing would be viewed as sinful, I Knew this was a subject that wasn’t going to be talked about over dinner or ever. At some point this caused me to suppress my feelings a lot of the time and quite frankly carried over into adulthood.
I told my wife before we were married because she needed to know what she was getting into. Honestly if i didn't confide in her when I did and she found after 14 years I'm not sure how it wouldn't of turned out.

I'm one who thinks you need to be up front about yourself before the first date.
If she has a problem with it its her choice to pursue the relationship or not. Its not fair to her to hide that part of you.
If you have a problem talking about your CDing thats your fault not hers.
By telling her it shows you care about what she thinks and that you are man enough not to hide things from her.It called trust.

Just a few ramblings from an old fart... Probably a little off in the head, so ignore me...

I always get aggravated when I read the replies from the people who are very happy to stay in the closet. If you are happy hiding it away, then that is fine, although I'm not really sure why you dress beyond the quick satisfaction.

But I think these conversations are more aptly aimed at those of us who are not content to have to hide who we are, and want to find our unicorn, aka accepting and supporting GGs, as well as being out to the world in general. There are many flavors of us in this world, and just because you are happy with your status quo, does not mean the rest of us have to be.

I have seen many discussions of divorce, where it was directly attributed to this issue. Also, I have seen many people talk about divorce and say it was for other reasons, and while some may believe this was not the cause of their divorce, it is a safe bet that it was a contributing factor.

Many people are afraid to bring it up early for fear of who she may tell. Is it better after being together for 10, 20, or more years, when she knows all of your friends and family, and then have her telling everybody you know after a nasty divorce?

i could go on and on... But it would fall on deaf ears I'm afraid.

Sometimes Miss, CDing caused my divorce, too. She couldn't be married to a crossdresser. She said so.
It's highly arrogant for other people, who don't know me, my ex, or anything about our marriage, to know what did or didn't cause our divorce. Yes, many gg's say it was the lie, but that doesn't mean it's always the lie. Sometimes it's the CDing. To the "it's the lie" pushers, you can't cookie-cutter this.
To the OP, we can agree on one thing, when you said "I just don't get it". You're right, you don't. Many threads over the years on the "reveal trap" explain it well.

I love it when the "holier than thou" brigade comes out....such fun listening to their pontificating.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

To the "it's the lie" pushers, you can't cookie-cutter this.

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This is may be the most accurate statement said today. There are too many flavors. We are not one size fits all!

I definitely agree that we should be upfront about ourselves. They deserve the truth just as we do, just as anyone does. That truth though.... Sometimes we ourselves don't always know that truth. In my case, I couldn't truly accept myself as a CDer. I had Cd'd, but would go many years without ever doing it. Honestly, maybe a dozen times from the time I 1st tried it, when I was 22, until the time which I bared my secret desires and infrequent practice of dressing to my 2nd wife which was almost 3 decades.

I did not tell my wife as I had not told my 1st wife, or anyone else. The reason, I was going to take this horrible secret problem of mine to my grave alone. In my head was not a conflict at the time. I was simply going to keep my dreadful secret of female desire to myself, as I always had.

2 years into my relationship with my now wife, I began to feel an increasing urge to dress. On a few occasions when I was alone, I would sneek and dress in what clothes she has that somewhat fit me. Once again, I beat back the urge and went into hardcore repression mode. Then the engagement got closer, my attention was on marriage and I really wasn't thinking too much about it all.

Shortly after the wedding, about a month in, it came back again, stronger than ever. Again, a couple more sneek times of dressing. I was growing ever weaker to fight the female demon inside me. I remember the day when I finally said to myself, I can't fight this anymore. I was in the shower and I realized I would have to com clean. Sooner or later if I keep on this way, I will get caught. It took me a few months.... I began showing little more fem things, I started shaving my legs.... dropping small hints. I would say something a little off the wall. One night, one of those little comments went just a little too far. Then, bam, the discussion was on and I revealed it.

In hindsight, me not telling her was wrong. I have always preached about how wrong it is. Wrong for them, wrong for us. It causes so much pain, anxiety. distrust, communication issues. The list of negatives can be endless. If only I had been upfront since early on. Who knows what would have happened. My wife today says she does not know exactly how it would be. She doesn't know that she would have married me or not. .We had known each other for 20 years prior to getting together. What is certain had I told her is that we would have at least been friends and there would have been honesty. Perhaps our relationship would have grown still. Perhaps she would have married me anyway. She would have done so knowing and it would have all been so much easier then 3 and a half years into the relationship, 6 months into the marriage. The only issue we would have had is the CDing itself, and by the time we got married, that would have been figured out as well. The last 3 years has been a hard time of trust rebuilding, and re establishing our marriage as to who I really am, and how she deals with it. There is now some increased insecurity on the marriage lasting. We love each other, for that there is no doubt. She is confident that I will always love her and honor her, but, what the future holds is now less certain for her than it once was. Something that may never get back to from where the feelings of certainty was before the reveal.

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Originally Posted by bok4fun

This is may be the most accurate statement said today. There are too many flavors. We are not one size fits all!

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Like you and Nicole said, we are not all one size and sorry to say, many will never understand that.

I agree that it is usually best to be open and honest, but like every other issue we usually discuss, every situation is different and absolutes are simply not attainable.

We can't criticize all who feel they have to remain silent,from their spouses or SOs. We just don't know the circumstances that each person has to live with. We don’t know the risks of disclosure. We don’t even know whether a person realized they would continue to crossdress after they married and did not feel they had anything to hide early in their relationship. Although honesty, trust and open communications are very important for healthy relationships, circumstances and personalities can be quite different. Sometimes it might be better to remain secret, even with risk of eventual discovery, because there may be greater risks involved with immediate self-disclosure.

Anxiety and mental illnesses are unfortunately commonplace. Disclosure might be hurtful or not even possible with any degree of understanding or acceptance. Some spouses have strong religious convictions which would be very threatened and simple disclosure of an infrequent and private behavior might jeopardize the entire marriage. There are many other considerations that closet crossdressers might face that best keeps them in the closet, such as children, family, living quarters and career concerns.

We often hide other secrets from our spouses and loved ones. Many of us would not think it wrong to remain silent about our work worries, personal medical concerns, disappointments and internal fears and doubts. We often do not want to cause worry for those we love. Non-disclosure is typically admired in those circumstances and not considered lying, but we are always quick to belittle those who have to hide their crossdressing secret, even if they sincerely want to prevent certain hurt and pain. I think it is judgmental to criticize everyone who remains in-the-closet. Some really can’t or shouldn’t disclose their intimate secret.

I agree that openness is usually best, and that eventual discovery often is more hurtful. But not everyone can tell their spouses they like to wear panties, or that they occasionally need to wear a dress, because their consequences would definitely and immediately be significantly worse than remaining silent with risk of possible discovery.

Dr. Heather is in the house! Very well put!

I don't see why they would keep it a secret before they get married, yeah if they start after marriage that's one thing.
I told my current girl friend before we began dating and it was one of the best decisions that I've done honestly. It made our relationship even more open, even as friends.

If you're going to marry someone wouldn't you want to be completely honest with them even before marriage. I don't know why this should be a secret from the love of your life.

I disagree with all this "one size doesn't fit all" nonsense. We ALL didn't or don't tell because we are afraid and ashamed. It's just that simple.

The "divorce" reasoning as an explanation for not telling is complete crap. But it does make for a great excuse to not admit your are afraid and ashamed.

Well, I've been reading threads and comments on the site for years. I think this subject has been beaten to death. And, I suspect you already know the answers that will flow forth. I will not deal with the issue of disclosure before a relationship gets serious.

How about all those relationships I've read about in threads where there has been full disclosure prior to getting serious or marriage where the wife does a complete turnaround? "Hey, I know this is our first date, but, I have to tell you that I love wearing women's clothing, a wig and makeup and going out for strolls and shopping!"

"Oh, you're OK with that! It's cool! Boy, am I happy. All the other women I've dated just ran off yelling "queer, yuck" or something else to degrade my manhood. You're a gem."

Here comes the bride. The I DO's are said. They live happily ever after.....NOT!

Sure, we have heard it time and time again, and, we'll hear it tomorrow too.

Rant is over.