My outing to the casino and using the washroom shouldn't have to be such a problem.

I went out to a casino last Wed night. When I was on the floor walking around waiting for the bar to open up it was such a mixed bunch of emotions from people.... People "men" can look at me with so much hatered, other men/women talk to me as if I'm just another human being enjoying simple conversation and then there's other people that want to take pictures, buy me shots, have drinks, include me with their group of friends lots of laughs and all of us have a real good time! This crowd is mostly women that are out and about with their friends. Its just such a mixture of emotions from both ends of the spectrum..... Hatred vs being liked and accepted.

Anyway to my point, I had to use the washroom after a couple beer so I used the men's washroom as I normally do. It was very crowded with adults and College kids in there and I could tell they didn't like my presence. When I left I heard someone yell out what the F is that. What a bunch of cowards to yell out behind your back....
In my province we don't have a policy on using male/female washrooms like other states so it is left up in the air with no legal direction which one to use. One of my first public outings a couple years ago was to an event put on by the local Imperial Court. They said they would like everyone to use the washrooms with "the gender that they mostly identify with." Of course for me that is male as I only get out a few times a month. I'm not even 50/50. Ever since this event I have done just that unless I have a group of GG's that I go into the washroom altogether with. Some folks on here like to use the women's washroom and treat it like its a milestone to reach a special throne and celebrate that they can actually be in there. I have always felt out of place and uncomfortable trying to do that. If I was TS this wouldn't be an issue at all but I am a hetro male.....
Anyway I know some might think I'm looking for trouble but its not the case. I really feel out of place and until our province changes the laws I will do what I'm doing and hope for the best. What the heck, they can make room for me as I sure am not in there loitering, being an idiot and bothering any of them. I go quickly into a stall, get out quick and wash up and go.
Why the F can't this world live and let live?
Rant done LOL

Launa

You have more guts than i do! I am convinced this thing we do, will always be considered strange, my friend, by most, and hated by some. Many males feel threatened by us.

Use the women's "washroom" and don't give it any further thought...

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Originally Posted by Launa

They said they would like everyone to use the washrooms with "the gender that they mostly identify with." Of course for me that is male as I only get out a few times a month. I'm not even 50/50.

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From the above, I am not sure whether you present as female with makeup, wig, etc, or do you present 50/50? If the latter then I suspect that your best option is to use a gender neutral toilet such as separate disabled facilities.

If you are presenting female then I disagree with the advice you were given. It isn't about how you see yourself, i.e. as a male who happens to dress, but about how others perceive you. If you present female use the female facilities unless there is a law against it. No trophy will be awarded - just practical common sense and personal safety. Be thankful the men were 'cowards' - the alternative might have been more painful.

When I wore a dress with heels for Halloween I went to the men's restroom a couple of times. I am a dealer runner who delivers title applications to a county tax office for a vehicle dealer. Bear in mind I have hair that hangs lower than my shoulders and I wear a C cup bra for my natural breasts. I also had on eye makeup and lipstick. I DID use a urinal so others would see I was male. The first time I talked to the individual next to me in my deep voice that is a cross between Johnny Cash and Joe Friday of Dragnet. I looked very much like a genetic woman. I had ABSOLUTELY no difficulty using the men's restroom from others. I guess I got a lucky break.

Johanna Anna (John in real life)

I go out 2 times a week and if I am out as Susan I use the ladies room or gender neutral if they have one, when I am out as my male self I use the men’s room. For me I feel this is safer and better for everyone. That being said I don’t look at it as a right, privilege or a goal I have made, it is simply to take care of what I need to do and then I get out. Every once in a while I will get in a conversation with a GG in there and I do feel a little uneasy about that as I don’t like lingering in the bathroom.
I am lucky as where I live we have some good laws. Oregon is that you can use the bathroom with the gender you are presenting, dressed as a woman then the woman’s bathroom. Washington it is the gender you identify as, for me my gender has a wide range from male to female. when I am in my male mode I take on the male gender and when I am Susan I take on the female gender so I guess that would make me bi-gender.
I think anyone dressed as a woman in the woman’s restroom is less of an issue as people are not always that observant and may not notice right away. Someone in a dress with long hair and makeup saws female at a glance and would fit in with being in the female restroom. A dress, long hair and makeup would stand out even at a split second glance in the men’s restroom. Just my thought

Hi Launa;

thought it is not clear of you were dressed em femme at the time, I think perhaps you were. Even here in the states, there is no clear direction on rest room use BUT there are a few things to consider.

In general, you should use the rest room that matches how you are dressed. If you go into a men's room dressed as a woman, that can cause problems, such as the remark you heard.

It is no real milestone to use the other restroom, it just makes sense to draw less attention to yourself based on attire.

Your use of the restroom makes sense. Do what you go in for, wash up and leave. This is true regardless of which one you use. The rest room is not a social setting unless you went in with one or more friends. IF someone questions your right to use the restroom that matches your presentation, there are two ways to handle that. You can protest or you can apologize, leave and find another restroom. Keep in mind there is a law, generally speaking, that can be applied to your use of the restroom IF you choose to protest your right to use that restroom when questioned. If the questioner complains YOU can be ejected from the premises for 'disturbing the peace.' Best advice, apologize and move on.

Luckily I have never been question regarding my use of the ladies room. I did hear a woman comment on my muscular legs as I left one casino restroom. It was a polite and positive comment so I smiled and kept on going.

Hi Launa,

I understand your reticence to use the "women's restroom" and if you feel more comfortable in the "men's" then that is your call. I will point out that Alberta's Human Rights Commission has enshrined protection of Transgender (whole spectrum) in their human rights policy. Now while it does not explicitly state that a "trans" person can use the bathroom of the gender they identify with, there have been challenges in your own court system which have found denial to be discriminatory albeit it related to work environments. In Ontario, we have a similar system . . . it doesn't explicitly say you can but it does not say you can't. I verified with a policing friend of mine and she indicated that when it came to public places (e.g., malls, casinos) if I were to use the bathroom of the gender I present (in this case female) and a complaint is lodged (has never happened), the owner can ask me to cease using the ladies room and I should comply but they will have to make accommodation for me to use the men's (i.e., I would require staff to accompany me and ensure I am not physically or verbally abused). If the police are called I would not be charged for using the bathroom just told to make other arrangements. However, as I said it has never happened.

I provided a link below for you to your human rights commission. You could check with the city police to find out what the policy is if you are so inclined.

http://www.albertahumanrights.ab.ca/...as_grounds.asp

Hugs

Isha

Is this an intended pun?
"Some folks on here like to use the women's washroom and treat it like its a milestone to reach a special throne and celebrate that they can actually be in there."

My dad used to call it "the throne" in jest.

If you use the ladies, be quick about it, with your cell phone totally shut off, batteries out of your camera, not looking through the gaps in the stalls, sitting down, just like you would want someone to do if your wife was in there. Be RESPECTFUL of their feelings!!!!!!!!
I prefer the handicapped or family singe holer myself IF one is available.

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Originally Posted by BillieAnneJean

If you use the ladies, be quick about it, with your cell phone totally shut off, batteries out of your camera, not looking through the gaps in the stalls, sitting down, just like you would want someone to do if your wife was in there. Be RESPECTFUL of their feelings!!!!!!!!
.

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I surely hope this isn't how you see the transgender community! There has not been one single T bathroom incident in the US...

I've gotta admit this is something that makes me reluctant to go out en femme for very long. I admire those that feel completely at ease walking into the ladies room when out en femme. And going out alone to a casino also takes a lot of courage. I don't even like going out alone in male mode now days!

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Originally Posted by Michelle (Oz)

From the above, I am not sure whether you present as female with makeup, wig, etc, or do you present 50/50? Be thankful the men were 'cowards' - the alternative might have been more painful.

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When I say I'm not 50/50 it means that I'm only out on the town 3-4 nights a month. I live full time as a man. As far as those men go the alternative could be painful alright its just so easy to yell things out when your in a group or far away from the person.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Isha

Hi Launa,

I understand your reticence to use the "women's restroom" and if you feel more comfortable in the "men's" then that is your call. I will point out that Alberta's Human Rights Commission has enshrined protection of Transgender (whole spectrum) in their human rights policy. Now while it does not explicitly state that a "trans" person can use the bathroom of the gender they identify with, there have been challenges in your own court system which have found denial to be discriminatory albeit it related to work environments. In Ontario, we have a similar system . . . it doesn't explicitly say you can but it does not say you can't. I verified with a policing friend of mine and she indicated that when it came to public places (e.g., malls, casinos) if I were to use the bathroom of the gender I present (in this case female) and a complaint is lodged (has never happened), the owner can ask me to cease using the ladies room and I should comply but they will have to make accommodation for me to use the men's (i.e., I would require staff to accompany me and ensure I am not physically or verbally abused). If the police are called I would not be charged for using the bathroom just told to make other arrangements. However, as I said it has never happened.

I provided a link below for you to your human rights commission. You could check with the city police to find out what the policy is if you are so inclined.

http://www.albertahumanrights.ab.ca/...as_grounds.asp

Hugs

Isha

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A lot of the laws are somewhat there if you are truly moving in a TG direction such as you are going to be living in some form of TS, starting to make body changes, taking hormones etc that make you identify with the opposite gender etc... I'm not there yet. As far as checking with the local police some of the girls I know said they have called down and it has come to a dead end as I have said. There is no right or wrong and that's why I say there are 2 different scenarios that can happen.

1. Use the ladies and if a problem arises then deal with a whole bunch of drama. Similar to what happened to you at the mall and you didn't even go in there! You were standing outside it and that scene happened if I remember the story right!

2. Use the mens and if a problem arises then I find it might be easier to tell a guy to F-off instead of dealing with all that other drama. Although if its the wrong crowd with tougher guys and things go bad for me the cops might say that I was asking for it.

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Originally Posted by BillieAnneJean

If you use the ladies, be quick about it, with your cell phone totally shut off, batteries out of your camera, not looking through the gaps in the stalls, sitting down, just like you would want someone to do if your wife was in there. Be RESPECTFUL of their feelings!!!!!!!!
I prefer the handicapped or family singe holer myself IF one is available.

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And this is why I stay away from the womens.

I would be using the female washroom if I was out Being Paige

its just so easy to yell things out when your in a group or far away from the person

This could happen even if your not out dressed. People do this sort of thing for absolutely no reason, especially with a group or a couple of friends, just to make themselves feel superior. They will never say it to your face or if they are alone. They are words, nothing more, you either make an issue out of it or you don't.

When I go out, if I am dressed, I am going to use a women's room or gender neutral restroom. I am not going into the men's room, that's like searching for problems, comments, or conflict. Thankfully I have never had to use a restroom while I am out. I understand your feeling uneasy about it though.

We all like to think the world is changing but the reality is it hasn't much. It's still the same BS you dealt with in high school because that is the mentality level of a lot of people out there. They have been born and bred to think a certain way and by god that is what they are going to do.

I guess you have 3 choices while you are out, use the right restroom as you present or deal with the BS, wait till you get home, or piss yourself. Your not going to change the world and I see no other way to deal with it. For the record though, while they may be a few, I don't think anyone here looks at using the women's room as any golden trophy, bragging rights, or anything along those lines.

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Originally Posted by ~Joanne~

its just so easy to yell things out when your in a group or far away from the person

When I go out, if I am dressed, I am going to use a women's room or gender neutral restroom. I am not going into the men's room, that's like searching for problems, comments, or conflict. Thankfully I have never had to use a restroom while I am out. I understand your feeling uneasy about it though.

I guess you have 3 choices while you are out, use the right restroom as you present or deal with the BS, wait till you get home, or piss yourself. Your not going to change the world and I see no other way to deal with it. For the record though, while they may be a few, I don't think anyone here looks at using the women's room as any golden trophy, bragging rights, or anything along those lines.

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If you say piss or crap your pants is an option? Well I guess that could be an option for some folks but I have never considered it to be an option. Using the mens can might be seen as looking for trouble but again its my choice at the end of the day and I will take my chances rather than having women and little girls look up at me as the big CD'er when I go into their personal space. It will be my struggle

U mite need to be careful if there r younger kids in the rest rooms. If you're obviously a male in a dress, as I am, in the Ladies bathroom u run the extremely unlikely chance of running into a nut case assuming the worst about u.

In a men's room there u may encounter some dirty looks or comments. They may assume you're gay, at worst.

However, in adult venues like casinos, etc., I've found women in rest rooms to be far more accepting and curious when there r no kids around then the men in the Men's bathroom.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BillieAnneJean

If you use the ladies, be quick about it, with your cell phone totally shut off, batteries out of your camera, not looking through the gaps in the stalls, sitting down, just like you would want someone to do if your wife was in there. Be RESPECTFUL of their feelings!!!!!!!!

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Wow I would wet myself before I got all that done.

Just do what you need and get out. No qualms, no fears. If you are appearing as a woman...use the women's. I even take 15 seconds to fix my hair and check makeup. Odds of you getting into a confrontation in the women's room are far lower than what will happen in the men's as the OP found out

What is the difference in "gender you identify as" and the gender presenting as? I identify as female but mostly present as male.

Good one Mary Lee. It seems the Alberta government figures that you'll only present as a female if you first identify as a female. Walking into the ladies presenting as a male could land one in jail - or worse!

If you really really want to help cover yourself legally speaking... ask them which bathroom you should use. And ask if there are unisex/handicap facilities you can use.

Launa, if they were suggesting you should use a restroom for how you most identify, I would take that to mean how you are PRESENTLY presenting. Otherwise, you run the risk of inviting hateful remarks, or discomfort on the part of other patrons. I believe you my have over thought that statement of theres, or read too far into it. It matters not if you present as male 95% of the month, if you are out in public dressed, I would suggest the womens restroom for your comfort issues. If challenged, you can always suggest you are transgender. Most folks will shy away at that point for fear of inviting a lawsuit or other legal trouble for discrimination. Odds are, no one will challenge you so long as your bathroom behaviors are situational appropriate.

When I am out as Sandra I always use the woman's bathroom, and when I am out as my male self I use the men's room. I think it is really easy for you to get un- welcome responses when you are dressed as a woman and are in the men's room. Imagine going in the woman's bathroom dressed as a man. When in Rome do as the Roman's do!!!!

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Originally Posted by Launa

If you say piss or crap your pants is an option? Well I guess that could be an option for some folks but I have never considered it to be an option. Using the mens can might be seen as looking for trouble but again its my choice at the end of the day and I will take my chances rather than having women and little girls look up at me as the big CD'er when I go into their personal space. It will be my struggle

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It is if your not going to go into the women's or men's room because your that conflicted at the time you have to go. I personally wouldn't myself. As many have stated here, if your out dressed and presenting yourself as a woman, you SHOULD use the women's room. Go in, use the toilet, wash your hands, and get out. That is all anyone should do in the restroom. It's not a social club after all.

Obviously you're not close to passing so that leaves you with no place to "go". Many public places now have "family" restrooms and while they aren't really intended for crossdressers, they are lockable and probably a better choice. I've never been to a place that had "Men" "Women" and "Other".

I don't think ther rest of us feel a "thrill" using the women's restroom, it's just more appropriate for those who come closer to passing.

You might have asked a security person if there was a private restroom you could use.

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Originally Posted by Krisi

Obviously you're not close to passing so that leaves you with no place to "go". Many public places now have "family" restrooms and while they aren't really intended for crossdressers, they are lockable and probably a better choice. I've never been to a place that had "Men" "Women" and "Other".

I don't think ther rest of us feel a "thrill" using the women's restroom, it's just more appropriate for those who come closer to passing.

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It has nothing to do with passing.just exercising your right to pee where you want. UNLESS,there is a specific statute on the municipality's "books",a person is free[in the US] to pee in whatever restroom they choose.Go in and get out and it never is an issue.