How do you see yourself? All input/replies welcomed

Hi all,

Disclaimer

While this question may seem directed at CDers who go out in public, I welcome replies from everyone based on personal observations which you may have experienced or gleaned from reading posts on this site. For CDs who don't go out I welcome your input because you will still have a perception of yourself but more from a private perspective. I know that our TS folks perceive themselves as the gender they wish to be, I know that inter-sexed folks perceive themselves as the gender of choice and I know GGs and GMs perceive themselves as their gender. However this is not to say you do not have insight into this question. So please feel free to pile on as I am quite curious how the community writ large sees this.

I had posted some pictures based on a experiment I conducted to determine how quickly my male physiology (arms and shoulders - bared) would get me read. Quickly BTW :eek:. One reply from one of our members got me thinking. Specifically she indicated that "she didn't think anyone would see me for anything but a guy (loosely quoted)" In my opinion that is an accurate appraisal. I have always maintained and never lost site of the fact that I am a guy . . . sometimes I just like to dress pretty :battingeyelashes: I prefer to blend when out and for me blending means being able to enter a venue (say Starbucks . . . this girl loves her coffee :D) without a shining beacon descending from the heavens a chorus of angles on unicorns announcing "GUY!"

I have never believed that blending means people look at me and see a woman, nor have I ever hoped they would. Let's face it, this thing we (CDers) do, can seem very weird to the uninitiated (not saying we are weird :)) and going out in public presents it challenges. However for me going out "en femme" brings a certain amount of peace/calm to my life and it just feels plain good . . . so I do it. However at no time do I feel as though I am woman or expect to be seen as anything but what I am . . . a guy. Blending just makes the experience a little bit more pleasant by allowing me time to normalize in a venue before the staring and finger pointing begins.

Now before anyone piles on with ... Well if you perceive yourself as a guy, why go through all the time and effort of presenting female? Seems counterintuitive :confused: If I could explain why I do it . . . well let's say that would be whole different thread. Suffice it to say that while I dress, act (mannerisms/walk) and talk (close facsimile) as a woman I do this to blend. I don't feel as though I magically transform into a woman or people will see a twenty-something hottie when I am out and about. Nor do expect women to accept me as one their own kind. What I do perceive is that I am a good person (regardless of how I am dressed) and I have the right to present in any manner I deem appropriate (within reason obviously). Sometimes I just prefer to dress as a girl and sometimes a boy.

So my questions are:

1. When you go out (or stay in) and look in the mirror do you see a woman or a man? Specifically do you feel as though your masculine (if you want to put name to it) side is subsumed by your feminine side?

2. When you are out do you wish to be perceived as a woman? I am not talking about blending (hiding in plain site) but more so you truly want people to accept you as a woman.

As I noted above for those to whom the questions do not apply please feel free to provide feedback based on your own personal observations either experienced or as gleaned from the posts on this site. :)

Hugs

Isha

Hi Isha, I am a 71yr.old male but when I get dressed and made up and put on my blonde shoulder length wig
I can see a 60 something lady smiling at me.:daydreaming:

When I'm all done getting ready, I usually see what I would describe as a feminine type person looking back from the mirror. The whole effort makes the look. When I go out my aim is to have fun being myself and enjoying the freedom of same. I never have claimed to be a woman and how others see me is up to their own perception I figure. This is all good enough for me my friend.:battingeyelashes::)

Hi Isha
First let me start by saying I always enjoy your threads and reply's, they are my favorite to read. :hugs:

When I dress I'm also trying to blend, I want to look and dress as close to a women as I can. Going unnoticed would be my goal so that I could safely fit in, not have to worry about ridicule and laughter or worse. Which is exactly how I dress in guy mode also, I'm not a trend setter.

I've yet to be outside the house dressed, except for under-dressing which I always do, but going out is a goal of mine. I first need the nerve and my wife's approval.

Jackie

When I look in the mirror I always see a guy and a very feminine looking one at that, I like being a guy even when I'm out I still present my self as a very girly guy, I wear a little bit of make up but not much, I don't bother with breast forms or bras as I have no real desire to have all that weight on me chest and plus I would feel silly having fake boobies, also I never wear a dress in public as that's not how I want to come across yet at home no problem as that's where I prefer to wear them not that I wear them that often anyway lol maybe on my most extreme days of feeling girly, my hair is naturally long and always have it tied up like a girl with a hair band/bow, it helps being gay because when people see a guy dressed in what I wear the instant reaction would be "ah must be gay" which I like that because...well.... I am just that! a gay guy looking incredibly feminine :battingeyelashes: or as my work colleagues say "JJ the Super Gay!":doh: and yes they even made me a T-shirt with that on :eek:

Hi,

How am i percived and seen , no matter my clothes wether im in male or female work clothes in shorts a dress or my normal clothes of a skirt tops and head wear with or with out makeup though i dont wear makeup as you know .as i dont need it ,

my facial features are male .though thats open to ? , because my facial features have changed over the years as more softer in my looks, and just nice. my body is as female though not in all details as is well known

its not about what i see its about what i am. a normal female who is a woman though different in my birth.

im well accepted and get on well with people in all i do. i dont need to ask can i help its about those who know me its youll be there any way , and they wont me there with them.

My acceptance is based on who i am , not how i look or not i dont do blend in i dress differently and with our groups,

I never liked how i looked at age 10 facial wise and no different now , that does not stop me from loving myself as i should and accepting who i am, theres more in my makeup than just looks , my nature demeaner and manerisims and attitude as a loving woman. and person.

...noeleena...

Isha,

This post, and your last posting in the thread that spawned it have me a little confused... Now forgive me if I stray into the realms of controversy, but for the greater majority the wider public, they do not have too many options. We, as a community have an extensive lexicon of terms to define us, even though we seem so against such labels. They have two, boy or girl. Now to say that you never expect to be seen as a woman, kind of implies that you expect to be seen as a man. Why, therefore go to all the effort. I'm sure you have looking like a man 'down pat' by now.

My efforts are directed at looking as less like a man as is possible. I do not want to be perceived as male and, therefore by inference I want to look like a woman. The reason I do not go out other than once in a totally secure environment is that I currently fail miserably in that intent. I do intend to do as much as is reasonable to correct this. I see success in this on a sliding scale of increasing levels of scrutiny required to detect. I do know one CD who is very far down that scale, as I hazard a guess, are many of the gurls here.

Whereas I will always be a man in a dress, always feel like a man in a dress, the less obvious I can make this the better. I would love to be perceived as a woman and for that to be effective it would require a certain amount of public acceptance as a woman. To just assume that I will always look like a bloke in a frock I find disheartening... Where is the aspiration??? I don't want to give up now after all I have been through!!!

I suspect my H sees something that I don't see. I once asked him why all the 'googly eyes' at the mirror when dressed and he told me the guy in him was appreciating the girl looking back. Like, wow, head spin! But otherwise, I don't think his masculinity disappears. It's more like the femininity is added and the two are both there together, if that makes sense? And I know he'd love to pass and have everyone thinks he's female, and then he'd be equally horrified that he passed and everyone thought him female. His masculinity would be wounded. But then, his dressing is mostly sexual so I think there's more confusion.

Anyway, probably irrelevant but as a GG I know I literally never think about my gender. I can wear my hair back, no make up, tape on a moustache and flatten by boobs and I'd still just be me. The same if I were dressing for prom. Nothing changes. I'm accepted as a woman because I am one. That's it.

Isha, you say you don't feel different inside whatever you're wearing and you know you have masculine arms etc (for the record, all of these are GOOD on the heterosexual female scale :) ), but despite your acceptance of this, do you think you truly see your 'en femme' self as clearly as the general public? Or might you also carry a little of this fantasy mirror around with you?

(A side note - we GG's are not entirely without fantasy on how we look...we just deal with it differently. Eating disorders, anyone?!)

Hi,

Donna,

Those around me know very well what i am im an intersexed female = both male / female and so the terms of only boy or girl is not quite correct as i have made known nation wide yes in New Zealand what our differences are. another reason im accepted. many in Austraila allso know as iv told many.

Im not talking about a few 100 or 1000 people . im very involved with our groups and well known by many ,

After you'v been on T V and interviewed for papers as well you are able to bring so much more into the public thinking so how are those of us percived . all i know is i'v been very well accepted,

...noeleena...

Hi Isha

my answers are:

1. Whenever I dress (whether it be for a couple of hours at home or to get out of the house, last time a year ago and before that 17 years prior) I always try to create the image of a woman. Though when I look in the mirror, I still know internally I'm a male. This is what excites me, the creation of a female exterior image.

2. When out, initially I aim to blend, but try very hard and have a deep desire to be perceived and accepted as "just" another women.

I never forget that I am a man, but for whatever reason, my crossdressing objective is to "pass". When I dress it's all or nothing, no half hearted attempt. Surprisingly though, for a few hours after shedding my womanly exterior, there is always a lingering or after image of a woman when I look in the mirror.

Michelle

Great question. I think that when I dress I see a woman and my challenge is to look as much like one as possible. I do feel more feminine and think that is part of the transition. I don't think that really make the grade and hence have never been out. However part of my fun is trying to keep improving so that maybe one day I can go out and at least blend. Again great question and think it goes to the essence of crossdressing.

1. When you go out (or stay in) and look in the mirror do you see a woman or a man? Specifically do you feel as though your masculine (if you want to put name to it) side is subsumed by your feminine side?

While I have been a female at heart for as long as I can remember, growing up with a guy mug has made it very difficult to finally cut through that and see a woman looking back at me in the mirror when presenting as a female. Even more important to me though is that with long-ish hair, I see her nearly all the time no matter how I'm presenting.

2. When you are out do you wish to be perceived as a woman? I am not talking about blending (hiding in plain site) but more so you truly want people to accept you as a woman.

I like what Donna said, that the Muggles pretty much two choices when they process what they see...boy or girl. Anything in between is viewed through whatever prism that life has dealt them to that point. That said, I want the world to see me and accept me as a woman. The latter is much easier. Show some effort and decorum and the world can be your oyster. Being seen as a woman is much more difficult because we all have at least something in our builds or features that betrays us.

I too have said a thousand times that I expect others to see me for what I am in terms of how they process things, trans-whatever. At the same time, I hope to at least pass the first glance test, that at first glance all they perceive is a female. Anything beyond that is just gravy. But for the world to see me for who I am, they have to engage me in conversation first, or vice-versa, in order to get a view of what lies beneath the (hopefully) feminine exterior.

Kindly accept this comment as from one that is new to all this, having come late to the party less than a year ago. I am still learning the basic skills necessary for an independent outing.

I view myself in this regard in two states and two dimensions. The state is whether presenting as masculine (Val) or feminine (MsVal). The first dimension being whether masculine or feminine (rough collection of stereotypical female appearance, conduct, etc.), and second being intensity (how much of my conscious thought it occupies).

The first dimension is bounded by the least masculine (or feminine) person I know, and the most masculine (or feminine) person I know. Intensity is bounded by indifference on the low end and absolute attention on the high end.

As Val, about 90% masculine, 10% intensity; 10% feminine, 30% intensity. Ie: I view myself as primarily masculine and give it little thought, secondarily feminine with that portion receiving some attention. It seems to always be on my mind.

As MsVal, about 40% masculine, 30% intensity; 60% feminine, 90% intensity. Ie: I view myself primarily as feminine and devote a great deal of attention toward that self image and its development. The masculine part, while diminished in view, receives a great deal more thought while I struggle to keep it subdued.

I wish to develop MsVal by increasing the feminine proportion to ~90% and both intensities to ~10%.

Is that too complex?

Best wishes
MsVal

Hi Isha,

Thought-provoking post as usual - great questions. Since I haven't ventured out of my home as Renee yet:

1) When I'm en femme, I like to present in as feminine a way as possible. I know under the wig and makeup I'm still a red blooded guy who loves his tools and fishing gear, and yet I like how radically different I look once the makeup and wig are on. My femme look (aside from my facial structure and eyes) is nothing like how I look as a guy. Between the clothes, shoes, bra/forms and my face and hair, it's a very distinct set of feelings that's nothing like when I'm decked out in a suit. Looking in the mirror, I'd say I'm a guy who's looking and feeling feminine for a few hours. It's like taking a little vacation - very relaxing, fun, and uniquely special.

2) Haven't quite resolved whether or when I'll go out "en femme." I like the Spanish phrase "En su tiempo" - everything in it's time. I would like to go for a nice drive en femme at some point. Given how I present, if someone were to see me at a distance there would be very little traces of masculinity in my silhouette - it would no doubt be a very feminine image. I'd be fine if someone assumed I was a woman because that would be the logical thing to conclude based on the image I'm presenting. As for blending or passing, not quite there yet but I suppose I would want to get as close to passing as possible.

Hugs,
Renee

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tinkerbell-GG

I suspect my H sees something that I don't see. I once asked him why all the 'googly eyes' at the mirror when dressed and he told me the guy in him was appreciating the girl looking back. Like, wow, head spin! But otherwise, I don't think his masculinity disappears. It's more like the femininity is added and the two are both there together, if that makes sense?

---

Yes - makes perfect sense :). I feel similarly once all of my preparations are done!

When looking in the mirror I see a male but as I start to smooth out the edges I begin to see a more feminine male, there's no hiding the male features(low brow bone,etc.),so when out in public I am the most feminine male I can be in dress and manerisms. It's good to blend thus eliminating any unwanted confrontations. I am a guy who feels I can relate in some ways to women on some levels but will never totally understand what it's like to be a woman so to be perceived as a woman is not a reality so in that sense I do not want to be accepted as one just (for a lack of a better word)tolerated as one if that makes any sense. I must admit that my personality does change somewhat by the way I'm dressed but I am seeking help in that category, maybe a thread for some other time. I never lose sight of being a man while dressed at home or in public just trying to be the best me I can be. Did this answer the question or just pose another?

Al(Lisa)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donnagirl

... Now to say that you never expect to be seen as a woman, kind of implies that you expect to be seen as a man. Why, therefore go to all the effort. I'm sure you have looking like a man 'down pat' by now . . . Whereas I will always be a man in a dress, always feel like a man in a dress, the less obvious I can make this the better. I would love to be perceived as a woman and for that to be effective it would require a certain amount of public acceptance as a woman. To just assume that I will always look like a bloke in a frock I find disheartening... Where is the aspiration??? I don't want to give up now after all I have been through!!!

---

Hi Donna,

For me to say I expect people to see me as a woman would not be logical . . . one look and it is obvious that I am a guy regardless of how I present :):battingeyelashes:. Unfortunately I cannot turn the compulsion to dress "en femme" off ... if I could it would be an easy day and I would just go back to guy me, regain the 15 pounds of mass I dropped and carry on. So, I prefer to make the transition to "en femme" in public as painless as possible (blending). This allows me to get comfortable in a venue before close up inspection and interaction takes place. For me acceptance of my TG side by the vanilla world has nothing to do with them seeing a woman but everything to do with accepting me as a person who although different is still a good person. :)

I would never demand or expect people to see me as a woman because I am not. If people prefer to use gender appropriate pronouns, treat me accordingly or whatnot, then I am not going to jump up and go "Hey I am dude so treat me like a dude". On the other hand if person said "Sir" vice "Ma'am (far too old for miss :)) I am fine with that so long as it is not done rudely. If I am denied the opportunity to use the ladies restroom by management or a ladies change room (both have happened), I am not going to get upset but accept the fact that there are some limitations to this thing I do and some folks are not prepared to go there . . . once again it would depend on the level of rudeness as to how I take it. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tinkerbell-GG

. . . Isha, you say you don't feel different inside whatever you're wearing and you know you have masculine arms etc (for the record, all of these are GOOD on the heterosexual female scale :) ), but despite your acceptance of this, do you think you truly see your 'en femme' self as clearly as the general public? Or might you also carry a little of this fantasy mirror around with you?

---

Hi Tink . . . fair question . . . processing, processing :thinking:. I would say that is a fair assumption. I try to always remember there is a guy inside and for the most part I do a good job remembering that and dealing with the WTF stares and finger pointing :). However I would be lying if a little part of me saw a girl staring back every once and awhile (fleeting moment) and think . . . hmm I wonder if people could see me as a girl. :battingeyelashes:

Hugs

Isha

1. When I dress up, I see a cross dresser. Not a typical male, but not a woman by any means.

2. Do I want to be perceived as a woman? That is fine if that is how others see me, but that is not my objective. My objective is to just be me.

I think a lot of my personal perception comes from my wive's observations. On mnay occasions she has told me that she does not care how I am dressed, she just see's me. She and I are quite clear, I am a male regardless of how I present, even though the vast majority of people who see me dressed take me for a female, I never do.

This is a great question, Isha (you always do this, you devil, you...tee hee).
It cuts right to the heart of much of what is going on with me currently. Still working on an answer.
Someone on another thread remarked about actors having identity issues...yeah, duh. LOL
Born out of survival in a tough environment when I was a kid, and honed through many years of practice and training and experience, my skills at adopting not only physical mannerisms and vocal characteristics of a variety of "identities" is pretty damned good, even if I do say so. And I have a lot of experience internalizing the process as well. And here is where it becomes difficult.
Trying to reach peace with myself, and an authentic understanding of the person behind all those masks is exactly what I am doing this year.
For sure, there are times when I am presenting male and feeling, from habit, male as well, but I question the authenticity of those feelings, since they are based on years of built up coping mechanisms.
Conversely, when dressed, and out, there is no question in my mind or heart that I not only feel female, I feel "authentically" female. And I feel a peace, and happiness quite unlike anything I have ever experienced before.

But, then, there is the "actor" thing that has me second guessing myself. I am, as I say, very good at internalizing a role. So, at this stage (no pun intended...tee hee) I still have to question everything.

Day by day.

Thankfully, I am in no rush. It is the process that I am interested in not the result. For me the the journey is far more important than the destination.

And now we are apparently leaving (see my other thread)...sigh...wish me luck...tee hee.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled drab day...lol

Good question.
When I look in the mirror, until I put a wig on a see a male in make-up and boobs and a dress. The wig is what makes me feel feminine. But there are times even with a wig on, I still feel like a man in a dress. Depends on the mood I'm in.
However when I do go out, I do hope that I am treated like a lady and addressed as I am dressed. If I'm dressed androgynous then however I am perceived is what it is. I'm not going to get bent out of shape either way no matter how I'm dressed. I do this for myself and not for others. If I'm happy then that's all that counts. So far I've been pretty well accepted, at least to my face.

When I look in the mirror I see a woman staring back. One that might be showing her age a bit and could use a little help looking younger, but a woman none the less.

When I go out I try to "blend", but not because I'm trying to hide. It's simply that I'm very comfortable being an "average" woman in society. At my age I'm certainly not trying out for Miss (or Mrs.) America and I am perfectly happy being me. I just want others to accept and treat me as the woman I feel I am.

Hi Isha

Good topic. But since your questions assume binary gender identification let me put in a word for the non binary.

If I look in the mirror, naked or clothed I see neither a man nor a woman. I see only me, existing in a varying place somewhere between what I consider the extremes of male and female. I don't only see this in terms of gender but even in terms of sex. If you ask a biologist they will quickly explain that sex is very complicated and there are enough studies of transgender folk to suggest that they really are biologically a bit different. I think that the binaries of male and female, man and woman, are essentially social, economic and psychological constructs designed to control people. I m personally, emotionally, intellectually, and politically tired of it. I refuse to continue to make myself unhappy by pretending to be somebody I am not and I am old enough and independent enough to not actually give a rat's fart for what other people expect me to be. I am not a man. I am not a woman. I am something else and in between.

I don't require that people view me as non binary. They can see me as a man, not be sure of what I am, think I am gay, transgender, just old and epicene or think I am a weird looking woman. I think most people are stunningly ignorant of both science and culture. They just don't see how culture and socio-political institutions trap them in cycles of anxiety and fear. I don't want to overwhelm them any more than they are already being overwhelmed by the barrage of gender and sexual conformity messages that are inundating them 24/7. Very very few people are likely to challenge me on my gender variance even though I wear make up and mostly women's clothes when I am in public. If they did challenge me I would probably get all shouty, but it doesn't happen. I am too tall, self confident, and frankly dangerous for this to happen much. The people who love me accept me as just who I am. I don't need any more.

all I see when I look at myself is one confused mothereffer. I want to look as feminine as possible but being that I'm single, I don't know if I want people to actually perceive me as a woman, especially on nights out. It's just flattering when people do.

I continue to be amazed by how much time and effort you put into thinking about your crossdressing life. My answers to your questions are:

1) I see a woman when I look in a mirror.
2) When I am out in public I do my best to be perceived as a woman. Based upon my experiences and comments from others, I seem to be succeeding which makes me feel good and further increases my confidence and comfort level.

1. When you go out (or stay in) and look in the mirror do you see a woman or a man? Specifically do you feel as though your masculine (if you want to put name to it) side is subsumed by your feminine side?

I am out all the time. When I look in the mirror before leaving the house I see myself a man in feminine disguise. I don't think about masculine nor feminine, but more along the lines of, "Wow! I like what I see one more time. Now let's get out of here to have some fun."

2. When you are out do you wish to be perceived as a woman? I am not talking about blending (hiding in plain site) but more so you truly want people to accept you as a woman.

Yes, for me it would be nice to be perceived as a woman, as in, "I have arrived!" but, that is not really possible so I accept that sometimes and at some moments I make a decent semblance of a woman. Fortunately and maybe a little luckily I am always treated well wherever I go. Treated well as me. The "me" is more complicated than just me as a man. I am generally a very nice and fun person to be with, like to laugh with others and at myself, and truly enjoy getting into the details of life and people. That interest seems to resonate very well with who ever I may meet, because it seems that they never really hold back on the details of themselves. That really makes my life so worth while to me.

I have always considered myself a woman, bit not a female. When i first went out, i had no wig, and my hair was very short. I combed it best i could, and used hair spray to hold it. I was not veru good at makeup, or nail polish. I did the best i could at the time. Yes, i got looks, stares, but i was happy. Now when i go into a store, i get greeted as soon as i walk in, and i feel welcome.

I do what i want/need to do, amd i am totally happy. Is a long road, bit i am on the road.

Diane