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I second this. But I also dont think that CDing does anything "special" to Lucas personality. He is who he is regardless of what clothes he likes to wear. being a CDer doesn't make him any more loving, caring, or more fun. He is who he is regardless of in a skirt or pants. So even thought I know, and I am accepting, it doesn't actually mean that if i "didn't know" that I would be missing out on anything positive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
I'm not sure if it really matters to some S/O's, (mine at least), but if they are non-accepting, they're missing out on your happiness & openness, (and other *-nesses) at least in seeing 2 parts come together as a whole, instead of one (socially-acceptable) part and the "other" part that has to be buried and hidden, which causes no small amount of stress & misery... Based on my reading, those who have supportive/accepting S/O's seem to "come alive", while those who do not, seem to be slinking around like a child who's raided the cookie jar. (and doesn't want mom to find out)
I liked Tinas take on this, but when she said " First, what crossdresser with a supportive spouse isn't going to reciprocate in an incredible manner to show his appreciation", thoughtr - just take a look around this forum.
What a lot of us simply do not get is that for many women, their feelings around cross dressing are a mix of fear, distrust and revulsion, and while I think that that is so sad, we have to accept it as a fact. It is not necessarily a lack of education or understanding, it is a gut instinct. All that said, if a SO is accepting it can bring a lot to a relationship.
Lol varied answered. It's just something i was wondering. I have to admit, quite a few of the are points of view I had kind of dismissed, but i can see now that they must be valid. I am a CD, not transexual. Appreciate all the answers though. My wife was never truly accepting, she just loves me a ton, and tried to support me until it became a habit and not a choice. She couldn't keep up the facade to too long and kind of buckled. She's settled on a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy.
My unaccepting wife is missing out on a husband wearing a wig, dress, hosiery, heels and all the proper undergarments? I think not. Today my wife and I spent the entire day shopping and dining out just like when we were dating over four decades ago. When we stood at the altar we were male and female. Obviously she prefers me being a male and not a girl friend.
She does get to enjoy my "feminine" side without the attire. It's the chicken vs egg question. Did my inner "feminine" side come before my cross dressing? Or, did my cross dressing give rise to my "feminine" side? Heck, I don't know the answer. All I know is my relationship with my wife would not be enhanced by me attired as a woman.
However, she does enjoy the end result of my days alone as Stephanie.....baking, vacuuming, dish washing, laundry, ironing, etc.
How does doing household chores equate to a spouse benefiting from your "Femimity"? I cook, wash
dry clothes, cook, bake, fold clothes, scrub toliets, the bathtub without being a crossdresser?
No I don't. The only way that having a SO and CDing seems to work is when she knows going into the relationship. Otherwise it's just lying and cheating and DADT is the best you can hope for.
Perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by JessM.
Lynn, this is not the case. Certainly not based on the many members here. It is ideal to be forthright going in to a relationship but that's not reality for many. Whether cross dressing becomes a DADT issue or a mild annoyance or complete acceptance is based entirely on the individuals in the relationship.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Marie
Hello Claire,
unfortunately that is a one sided view as you are looking at it from your side although I fully understand what you mean , how can they be missing out on something that they do not like , it is abit like missing out on a headache they do not want it that is where some sort of balance can help and that is not always easy for either one to overcome .
Me too Dana! Add cleaning floors, dusting (I HATE dusting!), cleaning windows, killing pot plants (innate talent I'm afraid) and repairing clothes...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana3
Implying those are all 'feminine' strikes me as a little chauvinistic - not that I'm upset about that, not at all - I'll leave it to the GGs among us to threaten a 'curling tongs at dawn' reprisal... :) (But I'll take an element of credit in highlighting it for them... :devil:)
I think Steph just means that she spends productive time at home... (looking to smooth things over a bit..) :D
I can't think my wife is missing anything just seeing me dolled up - wouldn't that be a bit egotistical to think that? She's still getting me as me, just not a prettified me... (for whatever questionable value that has..)
Katey x
I can certainly understand an SO who wants to keep a normal relationship. It's easier to associate with family and friends. So why should they want to accept a CD? Are they not your best friend? Don't they walk the same path?
Perhaps... But is it really because the public just perceives a CD as weird and so they, the SO, does not want to be perceived as weird by associating with a CD? What would their family and friends think?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
Personally... I don't see myself as weird. I'm different and certainly not normal as I'm breaking with gender norms. I'm making a statement with my life that the gender binary is wrong and that may cause some to say I'm weird. That's an issue to some persons.
When I came out and dressed, as I do full time with my mixed presentation, I had one friend who did not want to be seen with me in a skirt. They were afraid of how others would perceive them out in public when I was with them. Over three or four years now this dynamic has improved some what but not completely. I have other friends and family who did not have a problem and I've been with them out in public many times with no problems that I noticed. They acted perfectly natural.
Not everyone, including your SO, wants to come along with you on your path. And for some of us, like myself, we must go down this path. It is not as simple as a fun hobby. It is a need to feel normal and be my true self. That's very hard for a SO or friend to understand when they don't feel the way I feel. And it is certainly devastating that your best friend, your SO, would not want to be a part of this side of you. So yes... we wish we were accepted.
Yes... they are missing out... but that is their choice and what they feel they need to do for their path, even your best friend. Your paths may cross but we never walk the same path because we are all individuals. :)
I think it's interesting that there seems to be a divide in responses based off of if someone is the CD or the GG S/O... I'd have to say I seem to agree with what most of the GG's have said on here so far. My boyfriend has tried to highlight the "positives" of his CDing- like we can go shopping together and paint nails together, etc, which are things I enjoy doing with my girlfriends. And I told him that although those are things I like to do, I don't need more girlfriends. I have girlfriends, and I already have friends to go to the mall with and paint nails with, so it's difficult to see these things as plus sides. I do think I'd be missing out on knowing the full picture of who my boyfriend is if I didn't get to know this side of him, but I was happy with how our relationship was before I knew also.
They don't consider us 'other women'. they consider us broken males.Quote:
Originally Posted by claire_hollinger
Perhaps you'd be interested in the dynamics of how and why people fall in love with each other; and why they DON'T fall in love with certain types. So rather than post entire books about the subject, here: Very briefly, women very rarely find femininity in a male to be a turn on. Without any sexual attraction, they're simply not going to fall in love with us. Just like gay males, they may find us suitable as friends, but that's about it. And, should they date us and start to fall in love with us, and then find out about such femininity at a later date, and believe that we hid it from them, they will very often hate us for it....well, maybe hate is the wrong word. Perhaps dispise suits it better. Been there, lived that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
No. The OP made no requirement that a couple go out. The idea presented was that ones wife/girlfriend could benefit by hanging out with their cross dressed partner. Public perception is not involved here. Cross dressers are not women. THATS the issue. Our wives and girlfriends are hanging out with their spouse who is basically in disguise. What if we wore a Batman costume and acted really brave. How would a wife benefit then? She'd likely think,"My husband is a bit weird." And she'd be right. I think one has lost all objectivity if they believe that wearing clothing and presenting as a women will make your spouse view you as a woman. Our wives and girlfriends do not suspend belief while we are dressed. Some are gracious enough to accommodate us and treat us normally! Now what can we cross dressers learn from that?Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderlay
My SO says that I am a much calmer person, more understanding, and that this has opened my mind past the blockades I use to have on different lifestyles and such. With that said, I don't think she benefits in any way, shape, or form from my CDing beyond that. Other than her wardrobe expands leaps and bounds.
I also agree 100% with Jennifer's post above mine.
Well, we are talking about non-accepting S/Os. If you ever check out the forum for CrossdresserWives.com then you will find that they think they are missing out on a relationship with a man who enjoys being a man.
Non-accepting S/Os want a man who values his masculinity, and sees the male virtues as being more valued by society. They want alpha males, those men who are leaders, who will protect them, and who will make decisions for them. They see crossdressers as being insecure with their own gender. They think we've suffered from some childhood trauma that damaged our perspective of our own gender. They long for a strong, secure man who thinks in big terms, and provides for her security. They don't need another girlfriend, and they don't want a mate who is part male and part female.
I think this goes back to caveman days. Basically we still carry the same genes and natural drives as our cavemen ancestors. Back then the dominant male ruled the clan. He ruled by his own strength and he protected his clan. He got whatever he wanted, and this meant he had all the best females, and he rewarded his loyal lieutenants with valuable property (women). So today women are still attracted to dominant males - those men who are leaders, the rich, the famous, the influential. And men are naturally polygamists. I believe that today's boys who are bullies are just following their instincts that made dominant males so valued in ancient days.
I'm not sure how I can speak on this topic given I have a wonderful and accepting wife. But I can at least touch on her acceptance and regarding if she's getting anything out of the ordeal.
Like some GG's have said of their SO's, my wife accepts me and sees me as the same person regardless of what I wear. I don't change based on the clothes I wear. Yes, my mannerisms change, I act more feminine and what have you, but a lot of that exists outside of wearing a skirt as well, so maybe I fall more into the transgender area? At any rate, the only benefit she gets out of it is seeing me truly happy and the fact I hide nothing from her at this point. If I never cross dressed again from this day forth it wouldn't affect her unless it caused me sadness, then she'd be concerned. We do the same things out when I'm dressed or not dressed and I think that's been the key to our success. She doesn't see it as two sides and I don't treat it as such.
Now, my experience isn't everyone else's, but I think it reiterates to what some have said: being a cross dresser doesn't make you any more relatable to being a woman than say wearing a football helmet makes you relatable to a football player. I always consider it just a windowed glimpse of "what it's like", but the experiences are too controlled for me to really be able to know what my wife experiences. I understand somethings more, but I cannot be a replacement for a close, female friend to my wife, nor would I want to be. I am her husband and that's exactly what she needs me to be, regardless of gender expression. Your mileage, of course, may vary :)
Thanks to Jess, Reine, need support, Greenie & Tinkerbell for their words of wisdom & doses of reality. We need to see & think more clearly through the fog . Peace, mel
You guys need to lighten up! Obviously, a tongue in cheek comment does not come across in prose.
On the serious side, how many guys do you know that refuse to do any domestic chores because that is "women's" work as deemed by society? How many marriages do you know that are stressed because the working wife has two jobs; outside the home and then doing all the domestic chores in the home? Plenty I bet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana3
Anyway, my comment was done tongue in cheek. Lighten up!
it's like food you may find a type of food taste great but others just don't like it.
I don't think I would call it, "missing out". I think its just a relief for us that they tolerate us. My wife didn't have to accept me, but she did. It was totally her decision, and I wouldn't have had any other way!
No, not really.
Would you get enthusiastic if your wife bound her breasts, packed something in her pants, cut her hair short and pasted on some facial hair?
Didn't think so... I think it's not reasonable to expect spouses to enjoy our cross-dressing. Even asking them to put up with it is asking a lot, IMO.
I would echo the sentiments from GG's and some of the CD members in that there is actually little if anything that our GG S/o's are missing out on. Female companionship they can easily get from other GG's who can completely relate to them, not just in some ways. Unless they are are physically turned on by our dressing (which most are not) then that also is something they are not missing out on.
I also think that some on here may have more accepting wives or GF's then they realize. Accepting does not mean liking it. If they choose to stay with us, then they are accepting it. At least on some level they are accepting it. They accept it because they love us and want us to be happy and comfortable with ourselves. That by being able to express ourselves we are overall better people and a happier person which in turn makes us better to be around.
Umm, yeah.
If she had some level of gender disphoria (which my wife does) I'd be all over that.
We are who we are. Our mate's acceptance doesn't figure into that beyond keeping our regular lives together.
If it was just about us, we would have no issues. It is about how to help them understand that we are the same partner they fell in love with. We just have some extra features. We like to dress in pretty things. We just need to present differently than our genetics demand.
We are still the same person. We are still good people. We can keep our promises.
Perception and image is hard to maintain. We love them, right? We can do that while wearing heels.
- MM