Is this you? (All members)

Here are the statements

"I understand that some people on these forums want to disassociate themselves from anything masculine because of how they identify, which is fine but I don't understand why they then need to put it down. It seems like they completely forget transmen are on these forums as well and that by making negative statements about men, they are making them about you"

"it seems we are not seen as the men we are by some who are meant to know what we are going through albeit from the other side of the fence."

"it seems MtFs generally can't "handle" themselves as well as FtMs"

" I honestly prefer reading this section over the MtF section as its not the same types of threads over and over again"

Here are the questions?

Do you feel adequately described in the above statements?

Do you identify with these statements?

Have you ever felt that an FtM person is not male in the same way you identify as female?

Do ever consider your experience becoming a woman or a man more real that what other TG or TS persons are experiencing?

Do you feel you are not handling yourself as well as FtMs because you are a MtF?

Do you consider the posts on this forum less serious because we talk about clothing, boobs and and makeup, instead of sports, penises and cool clothing?

Do you as a transgendered person of either direction feel that your experience in living with a gender you having been born in disqualifies you from helping your brothers and sisters going in the other direction in becoming more of their chosen gender?

No, that is not me. I am proud of everyone that has the courage to be themselves. Personally, I have a negative view of masculinity, but I know that most men are good people, and I try not to let my bias get in the way. I now have an FtM friend, and I think it is awesome. It would be nice all of us had a good nurturing trait from our female side.

I am not judgemental to any transgender issue thought I have to admit that some I don't completely understand.
Even I am only a transvestite I have an emotional and physical attraction to males and the male bashing that I've read on some post confused me and somehow upset me too. I understand that sometimes is been said without intention to harm but bashing or ridicule masculinity is not a way to make you more feminine.

I think cd'ers in general have a limited scope of understanding when it comes to living as the chosen sex and clouded judgements about their own sex. Fear of being discovered, seen, outed and a million other adjectives dominate the cd'ers vocabulary. TS people have so many more complicated issues to handle. To some degree the FTM's have it a little easier at first but then things get a lot tougher while MTF's go the opposite direction. Everyone has their own perceptions of their ordeal and they are so busy dealing with their issues that they see the world with rose colored glasses because we don't take the time to smell the flowers.

To deal with all of the differences between the TG's you have to have a thick skin and give everyone the benefit of the doubt that they don't mean any harm. Most people don't take the time to see what their comments do to another group of people until they are confronted. If you see anyone saying or being insensitive then let them know.

I may self depricate due to thinking I may have gone over the top on masculine things (truck, football, Marine Corps, female conquests, etc...) but I don't think masculinity is bad. I think some people are not good people and some of those do terrible things in the name of masculinity like fighting, hitting or bullying, rape, et al, but it is the person, not the trait. Most men don't do these sorts of things. The same can be true for femininity...albeit a much less violent gender IMO.

Christy,

In a way I hate to burst your rosy tinted bubble.

The female can be and usually are the most violent gender in all species of mammals, including the human one. This is the one law of nature that applies to all.

Danni

My answer to all the original questions is NO. Yes, I am a MTF crossdresser. But I have no desire to be a woman, just to dress like one. What other people do with thier lives is their business, not mine or anybody elses! Unless their actions endanger me!!

Danni, the reason females are considered the violent gender is merely because they care for and protect their offspring. That is mainly where the violence comes into play. Look at the percentages of violent crimes committed by females as opposed to males!

Stephanie,

you are absolutly correct in that as far as it goes. But in the study of the animal kingdom of which we are a part, the female does reign supreme in almost all situtations.
Danni

I am a MTF TS, and do not fit any of the things you put up there, in that they all seem to be generalizations. There are truths in what everyone else said. If I had to fit some cookie- cutter view of what I am supposed to be, I wouldnt be on here. I am my own woman, anything but PC, opinionated, not as smart as I think I am most of the time, and can be a word I never used until recently to describe myself, a b*** (dont know if we're allowed to use that word). But, I am a loyal, good friend, but a very bad enemy to have. I dont like guns as much as I used to, but since Im good with one, I keep it, but just in my place. Never was one for trucks, but then again, I live in an urban area, and hate driving anyway. Im not attracted to men, but I dont have anything in particular against them all- depends on the person, just like anyone else.

Before the thread gets tracked sideways about who is more violent let me answer the questions for myself.

Do you feel adequately described in the above statements?

No I don't feel described by the statements above. I don't hate men, I don't even hate myself. I have issues with men that remain boys instead of growing up. I have not found one here that would fit that description.

Do you identify with these statements?

I cannot answer that since I am a transwoman.

Have you ever felt that an FtM person is not male in the same way you identify as female?

Never. In this regard while we struggle all in different places, there is not a shred of a doubt in my mind that the sincerity and pain of the struggle is no different from how I experience mine. Because we all are striving towards our chosen gender we spend a lot of time trying to understand not only our own birth gender but also the gender we understand we must be. We spend more time thinking about what it is to be male and/or female. And I recognize that effort and its sincerity in all of us.

Do ever consider your experience becoming a woman or a man more real that what other TG or TS persons are experiencing?

I do not sit judgment over my fellow human beings let alone my friends and family. I can feel it in your words and in your faces when you show them how real you and your life is. I see your sincere and heartfelt effort every day here and outside where I meet you and I love you with both compassion and happiness for who you are in your reality.

Do you feel you are not handling yourself as well as FtMs because you are a MtF?

Seriously, pfffft

Do you consider the posts on this forum less serious because we talk about clothing, boobs and and makeup, instead of sports, penises and cool clothing?

I guess because we transwomen tend to be more chatty and flocking around here in slightly higher numbers our forum tends to be a lot more repetitive. Hence, it can get at times to the point of rolling ones eyes. Most posts here address issues we all have. For transgendered and transsexuals presentation, gender specific body parts, and gender specific past times are incredibly important especially while we explore and transition to our wanted gender. The fact that we transwomen tend to hug and kiss, make googly eyes and express our love for each other, well, men, we are trying to be the women we hope to be and we do have a need for this frilly stuff, and sometimes we derail. Don't hold it against us please. In fact see the attractiveness in it in a aw shucks way and otherwise ignore it.

Do you as a transgendered person of either direction feel that your experience in living with a gender you having been born in disqualifies you from helping your brothers and sisters going in the other direction in becoming more of their chosen gender?

I wish one of my brothers here would speak to me of their experiences sustaining themselves as a woman before coming out. I wish they would speak to me of their struggle dealing with their femininity and how they experienced it. Especially those of you who are older and who have had to create the illusion of being the best woman you could to keep up the facade. I can learn from you. If you wish I will share with you my effort of being the best man I could be in spite of being who I am, a woman. Maybe we could help each other.

I have nothing but the greatest respect for all, brothers, sisters, significant others and genetic females, and I can learn from all of you.

Kathryn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Danni Bear

Christy,

In a way I hate to burst your rosy tinted bubble.

The female can be and usually are the most violent gender in all species of mammals, including the human one. This is the one law of nature that applies to all.

Danni

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Originally Posted by sissystephanie

My answer to all the original questions is NO. Yes, I am a MTF crossdresser. But I have no desire to be a woman, just to dress like one. What other people do with thier lives is their business, not mine or anybody elses! Unless their actions endanger me!!

Danni, the reason females are considered the violent gender is merely because they care for and protect their offspring. That is mainly where the violence comes into play. Look at the percentages of violent crimes committed by females as opposed to males!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Danni Bear

Stephanie,

you are absolutly correct in that as far as it goes. But in the study of the animal kingdom of which we are a part, the female does reign supreme in almost all situtations.
Danni

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I agree with you both...I think in the human species, some men try to over dominate women. As Stephanie says, (and I believe) most violent crime on humans is perpetrated by men. In the animal world (non-human) where supposedly they don't have an ability to reason, the female dominates, hunts, protects, etc. Please note that I am not suggesting that being female is the reason they don't reason or they don't reason becasue they are female. I think the rules are different in that environment then it is in the human community. My reference to gender was meant to be specific to the female human generally being less violent and I apologize if this was received differently than intended. Again, this would be my uneducated opinion on the subject.

Before I speak my mind, just a quick 'Hello' to some of my friends who probably think I've vanished. Not quite, I have moved and am moving again soon, then you will hear more from me.

Perhaps it's best if I just put it in my own words, so forgive me for not directly answering your specific questions.

I've seen very few statements that really describe me. Dressing as a female does not bother me, or keep me awake at night. It's a side of me that has always been there, albeit unrecognized for a long time. I'm quite comfortable being a man, and my impression is that expressing this female aspect to my personality is an enhancement to my being - I feel enriched by the experience. Still quite uncomfortable with the idea of going out dressed in public (it would be great if our society was more accepting, supportive, and just simply different than it is - but at this present time - it is not). I've little experience with the FtM side of it, I can only imagine that it must be equally as meaningful for those genetic females as my experiences - I realize that I have not cornered the market in uniqueness nor individuality, and that CDing is just as important to anyone else as it is to me. I feel little connection to those who are FtoM, but that's just my personal experience - so far.

The posts on this forum are serious - TO US - don't let anyone kid you about that one. I would casually post on almost any forum where I cared to express my two cents worth, but here I use more discretion and forethought. Giving the impression of being a woman (passing) or just adding some femininity to our clothing or lifestyle matters to us.

On your last question - being transgendered means that I'm more likely to understand someone who is trying to go FtoM than the average person. That's one up almost automatically. It's going the opposite direction of myself but there are many issues I could directly relate to. So that makes me far from being disqualified.

I don't know how well FtoM's handle themselves, so I can't compare.

That pretty well sums it up - I hope I've helped you to find answers in some way...

Alannah

No to all but the last question, that one confuses me. How is talking about penises and cool clothing, different than boobs and clothing? I really have trouble finding time to keep up with the post in this section, so I am not that familiar with all that goes on among the Transmen, but what time I have spent there, I don't see it as all that much different. Transmen as well as transwomen, and crossdressers are all just looking for understanding, and acceptance.
Tina B.

I don't even know how to answer all those questions.. The "statements" entotal do not describe me. Hell I can't even describe me. I don't feel anyone here is any better or worse than anyone else. Their just different. Probably no different than the general population... Fanatics and moderates and people that can and can't cope. People looking for answers to questions... Me.... I'm just here for the entertainment value at best. If I find some bit of information useful in my life or help someone along the way then that's a bonus... But I have no expectations here.

I enjoy being male doing guy things.My only thing is I like dressing in women's clothes much more then boy things. I feel the FtM is all of what I an as a MtF. GG's have there need and I respect them.:hugs:
Angie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kathryn Martin

Here are the statements

"I understand that some people on these forums want to disassociate themselves from anything masculine because of how they identify, which is fine but I don't understand why they then need to put it down. It seems like they completely forget transmen are on these forums as well and that by making negative statements about men, they are making them about you"

"it seems we are not seen as the men we are by some who are meant to know what we are going through albeit from the other side of the fence."

"it seems MtFs generally can't "handle" themselves as well as FtMs"

" I honestly prefer reading this section over the MtF section as its not the same types of threads over and over again"

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Do you feel adequately described in the above statements?

Do you identify with these statements?

Not adequately. I do wish to disassociate my self with masculinity... but I try my best not to do too much male bashing because everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt. I will apologize if I have done any and assure everyone that most of my comments have to do with my masculinity and how long I had to fake it and present contrary to my desires and feelings.

I will see anyone how they ask me to see them, because that is how I wan to be seen. But in general I do not relate as well to men, so I apologize again if my interactions end up being awkward.

I can not speak for every body, and so I will not speak in general about how well we can handle our selves.

I have no problems with the repetition because surprisingly there is a lot of new or different information each time.


Have you ever felt that an FtM person is not male in the same way you identify as female?
NEVER, Hardware Software mismatch can happen both ways, again if they are willing to see past my beard and deep voice and look at me as a woman, I am more then wiling to see them as a man no matter what!

Do ever consider your experience becoming a woman or a man more real that what other TG or TS persons are experiencing?
No, the only reason my experience is in any way different is because it is mine, it lives with me, on this board, off this board, while I sleep, and while I live. It is mine, and so infinitely more personal to me, but in all reality it is infinitely the same as others and I do my best to respect that.

Do you feel you are not handling yourself as well as FtMs because you are a MtF?
I honestly do not know, I do spend most of my time on the MtF sections and on the Trans sections... but I have not noticed my handling being inferior.

Do you consider the posts on this forum less serious because we talk about clothing, boobs and and makeup, instead of sports, penises and cool clothing?
No, The importance of information is relative to the person and much of what is in these forums is very important to me and has helped me feel confident, understand parts of myself I would not have other wise, and deal with problems concerns that could never have been addressed elsewhere.

Do you as a transgendered person of either direction feel that your experience in living with a gender you having been born in disqualifies you from helping your brothers and sisters going in the other direction in becoming more of their chosen gender?
This time I say yes, I know it is bad... please try to understand... but I regret many things I did trying to present as male. I wish I could go back and undo things I said, ways I acted, lies I told... I think I am the exact wrong person to go to about being masculine because my opinions are colored by my life until now. I do not completely reject males mind you, nor do I reject the masculine parts of my self that are part of my self... I reject the acting male to fit in and blend in... I reject all the things I did to hide my nature.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tracy X Cruz

[B]
Do you as a transgendered person of either direction feel that your experience in living with a gender you having been born in disqualifies you from helping your brothers and sisters going in the other direction in becoming more of their chosen gender?
This time I say yes, I know it is bad... please try to understand... but I regret many things I did trying to present as male. I wish I could go back and undo things I said, ways I acted, lies I told... I think I am the exact wrong person to go to about being masculine because my opinions are colored by my life until now. I do not completely reject males mind you, nor do I reject the masculine parts of my self that are part of my self... I reject the acting male to fit in and blend in... I reject all the things I did to hide my nature.

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Tracy, what you said there is something that I can fully understand. There, are moments in my life that I regret to this day, albeit they were more related to my behavior as a person and not linked to my struggle being male. I have always found that those to whom their traits do not come easy, who wrestle with what they have to transcend are those who have the deepest insights. In your words moves the melancholy of regret about what afflicted you bitter-sweetness, bitter for what was impossible to prevent and the sweetness of overcoming and that my friend teaches me something deeply human. Thank you

Kathryn

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Uhm, none of that post had anything to do with the thread. This thread is about asking how we would feel in our opinions, not your historic relationship that didn't work out.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but there seem to be an overabundance of posts of this past week from some people that have absolutely nothing to do with the threads they are posting them in. It's actually getting really damn annoying. As well as they seem to have to do with holding hands and learn from life.

Start a completely different thread for something like that, rather than put up a post in a thread it has nothing to do with. I (and am sure others too) find it a waste of time to come in to read a new post and find it's completely off subject because someone felt the need to go tell us something we don't care about.

I don't mean that in a personal way, but more as, if this thread wanted to know about your past relationship failures, it would have it in the subject. It does not-therefore we don't want to hear it.

Sorry, but this crap is getting annoying-I got to say something. It's like a sudden pattern with the mtf and f cd's >_>

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This is why, I went into the FTM section told them I was there in Peace . Explained my motive ,I was very kind ,polite and straight forward. I asked a few questions some answered them they were very polite .

I made sure to mention that I would reply on some threads if they were not maked Transmen only or if it was on a subject I could not relate to. This above statement was on a thread called " Would a Transman consider dating a cd ".. Keep in mind the "A" in the title..

I dated a Transman so to speak .. I made referance's to how it started and what mistakes I made as a CDer..This is the reply I get..Wow very sensitive ...

It's no wonder we forget them!! If they treat MTF'S like they treated me on this one and only post ( well it was the 2nd but same treatment as this one recieved) I replied to then Yeah!! I would forget them too..They do not mingle with us here, yet they complain because we are forced by their own hands to forget them but yet we have to keep them in mind,,..

I tried to build that bridge and it was knocked down, I am forgeting them from here on out if thats the kinda treatment I will recieve by keeping them in mind..It's just flat out rude...I erased my post left a message on my thread with part of this reply.. Hey guys?? If you want us to keep you in mind be a part of the community HUH ? How bout that? ,then if we make remarks that you may find offensive WE Bad..!! Until then who are you?

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella

It's no wonder we forget them!! If they treat MTF'S like they treated me on this one and only post ( well it was the 2nd but same treatment as this one recieved) I replied to then Yeah!! I would forget them too..They do not mingle with us here, yet they complain because we are forced by their own hands to forget them but yet we have to keep them in mind,,..

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I am not sure if you understood the purpose of this thread. The intention here was not at all to complain about real or perceived slights at the hands of anyone. It was to ask very specific questions about perceptions expressed by some of our friends on this board. I asked people to discuss if they either felt they were described by or identified with the statements presented. Then I asked a series of questions.

The whole purpose of this thread was to attempt to overcome the negativity of our mutual commentaries and find common ground.

I would never forget about "them" whomever they are. They are my brothers, and I while I don't understand every intricacy of each of their personalities, I know we are from the same family, cut from the same cloth. I actually recognize, always have that our MtF brothers have a much harder row to hoe. If you simply superficially think, that apparel and slicking your hair back, binding your boobs would make you a man, you would be sorely mistaken. The real work is in a wholly different place. Imagine this, as women we learn to embrace, to create space in which that love and life can flourish. The gesture expressed in this for us as transwomen in our process of developing as a woman is the embrace, a relaxing into a new life gesture.

I perceive our transmen brothers struggle to be the development of the straightness and strength of purpose, the tensile strength, like the arrow quivering in the string before it takes flight. If you use your imagination, what monumental struggle a person must go through to tighten and give tension to that which you are biologically pre-disposed to relax then it may be possible to understand how hard it is.

It is so difficult to be able to communicate this struggle, when we are all, as men, expected to be silent and stoic. In this context, sometimes the chattering of our lovely sisters here (of which I am one) can very well be felt to be annoying. And pointing out the slights and complaining about them will never help. Seeing their struggle, experiencing their pain and perceiving their stoicism, how can I ever forget about them.

People need to recognize...

We're also living in a Glass House. Different one, down the street; but a Glass House nonetheless. Live and Let Live is such a simple concept. However, it is the practice that is hard and often our prejudices and misconceptions get in the way...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kathryn Martin

"I understand that some people on these forums want to disassociate themselves from anything masculine because of how they identify, which is fine but I don't understand why they then need to put it down. It seems like they completely forget transmen are on these forums as well and that by making negative statements about men, they are making them about you"

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Kathryn, thank you for starting this thread. I do think that some of us (not all) occasionally make statements about the negative aspects of being a man that would seem like a put-down of anyone who identifies as male. I believe I have been guilty of this on occasion even though it was not my intention and it makes me feel ashamed of myself.

If we do this we can seem to be regarding the struggles of our FtM brothers as less than our own and I can understand how that can be hurtful to those men who are going through the struggles. In my not so humble opinion, we have a duty to consider how our words will affect all those on these forums, FtM, MtF, Ts, CD, GG, GM ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kathryn Martin

Have you ever felt that an FtM person is not male in the same way you identify as female?

Do ever consider your experience becoming a woman or a man more real that what other TG or TS persons are experiencing?

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[SIZE=3]Absolutely NOT!![SIZE=2] (for both questions)[/SIZE][/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by Kathryn Martin

Do you consider the posts on this forum less serious because we talk about clothing, boobs and and makeup, instead of sports, penises and cool clothing?

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MtF's are (or identify as) women. It is normal that much of what we discuss will be of more interest to women.

FtM's are men, it is normal that much of what they discuss will be of more interest to men.

Why should that make either forum more (or less) serious than the other?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kathryn Martin

Do you as a transgendered person of either direction feel that your experience in living with a gender you having been born in disqualifies you from helping your brothers and sisters going in the other direction in becoming more of their chosen gender?

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I would hope that despite the difficulties I had with myself being a male, the struggles I have had would help me to understand what others are going through rather than hinder me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AKAMichelle

To some degree the FTM's have it a little easier at first but then things get a lot tougher while MTF's go the opposite direction.

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I'm not sure I can agree with this. I believe that we each have a tough time to a greater or lesser degree both with accepting ourselves and with being accepted. I don't think that anyone has an easier time because of their anatomical gender. BICBW

[SIZE="2"]You’re a brave person, Kathryn. This could get lengthy.[/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by Kathryn Martin

Here are the statements

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"I understand that some people on these forums want to disassociate themselves from anything masculine because of how they identify, which is fine but I don't understand why they then need to put it down. It seems like they completely forget transmen are on these forums as well and that by making negative statements about men, they are making them about you"

[SIZE="2"]Sounds innocent enough, doesn’t it? The person who wrote this statement is trolling. We’re all lumped into this place under the heading “transgendered,” for better or worse. You can’t log onto the site without seeing the transmasculine section, so what is the person getting at? I don’t know if this member is either a) angry at men, b) trying to be male, c) angry at MtF crossdressers, or d) angry at males who are actually trying to be women. Perhaps she’s e) frustrated and angry at herself, and taking it out on everyone around her. If you’re a GG on this forum, you’ll get plenty of sympathy, respect, and support, but if you’re a GB (or whatever they’re called), you aren’t worth an equal share of that respect or support. This opinion is based on what I’ve read. It’s quite obvious.[/SIZE]

"it seems we are not seen as the men we are by some who are meant to know what we are going through albeit from the other side of the fence."

[SIZE="2"]Maybe someone should try communicating in a less clumsy manner. We’re all crossdressers, so there should be some common ground to use as a starting point. Skip the prejudice, and do away with the fences.[/SIZE]

"it seems MtFs generally can't "handle" themselves as well as FtMs"

[SIZE="2"]Based on what, exactly? It’s too bad the FtM’s who can handle themselves aren’t heard as often as the ones who are trying to erect barricades, impress everyone with their superior insight, or just blowing us off as impersonators.[/SIZE]

"I honestly prefer reading this section over the MtF section as its not the same types of threads over and over again"

[SIZE="2"]Then don’t read them. It’s called choice. I’m MtF, and I don’t have time to visit every clubhouse on the block. I can get an overall view of the alternative landscape here, but I’m trying to concentrate on the type of crossdressing that I am familiar with. I'm trying to learn something. This may explain why there are sections in the first place.[/SIZE]

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Here are the questions

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Do you feel adequately described in the above statements?

[SIZE="2"]No.[/SIZE]

Do you identify with these statements?

[SIZE="2"]No.[/SIZE]

Have you ever felt that an FtM person is not male in the same way you identify as female?

[SIZE="2"]Oh, that question is a “hot potato.” I don’t really think about things like that. It goes beyond merely “identifying” with one gender or another. You identify with yourself first and foremost.[/SIZE]

Do ever consider your experience becoming a woman or a man more real that what other TG or TS persons are experiencing?

[SIZE="2"]I couldn’t say. It’s real enough for me.[/SIZE]

Do you feel you are not handling yourself as well as FtMs because you are a MtF?

[SIZE="2"]We’re all emotionally “on edge” to a certain degree, based on our personal level of apart-ness from familial and societal pressures.[/SIZE]

Do you consider the posts on this forum less serious because we talk about clothing, boobs and and makeup, instead of sports, penises and cool clothing?

[SIZE="2"]I’ve read some very serious posts in the MtF section. I came here based on that. I dismiss the silly stuff and read the posts where someone is exploring the whys and wherefores of crossdressing. We are all explorers, but some are a little more intrepid, or inquisitive, than others.[/SIZE]

Do you as a transgendered person of either direction feel that your experience in living with a gender you having been born in disqualifies you from helping your brothers and sisters going in the other direction in becoming more of their chosen gender?

[SIZE="2"]Based on recent argumentative discussions, you may have a point. It seems to me that if you’re trying to become more male, you should communicate with males, and males who are trying to be more female should understand their kinship with such individuals. I’m not a good one to talk “male” with, but there are some MtF members here who could help. A mutual understanding can be beneficial, but we should start by removing all barriers to foster equality. It doesn’t do any good to compare one side to another. We’re all the same by being different. Can’t you see? [/SIZE]