The reason I ask is because some CDers don't like being called transgendered. Then there are some that don't want to be represented by the LGBT.
What are your thoughts?
The reason I ask is because some CDers don't like being called transgendered. Then there are some that don't want to be represented by the LGBT.
What are your thoughts?
My TG group is under the GLBT in my area and it has been a good thing.
They helped push thru a fairness law in my city and that has been something that was needed.
GLBT has more clout politically than just a TG or CD group on its own.
I think that once you recognize that gender identity is a spectrum then many (most?) crossdressers belong under the transgendered umbrella.
I think that some crossdressers may resist this and the associated LGBT label though for homophobic or transphobic reasons.
Then some TS may say that they have some separate issues, which is true, and that they need their own representation. I don't think that we have enough political power as a whole to start fragmenting and in-fighting.
Marleena it seems those who have a problem with being included under the TG label are living in a fantasy within a fantasy. Like before the American revolution our leaders wrote that we can "all hang together or all hang separately." Clearly anyone in that conundrum needs to look within themselves more.
I tend to keep to myself with this and let others do what they want.The nature of the beast for this is problematic. No person or Org. really helped to get me where I am today, it was all due to my own efforts. Everyone has to make their own choice with regard to this issue.:)
Funny but I was giving some thought to this very question the other day. Personally, I don't have a problem being lumped in with LGBT. I have a lot of gay, lesbian, bi and whatever else friends. I am happy to be counted among them.
I am a heterosexual crossdresser. Sometimes, I like to think I am a lesbian in a man's body. Whatever.
I am against discrimination of any type and therefore supportive of LGBT.
Max pretty much summed up my assessment of this issue. I feel that it's a good thing to band all of us together, strength in numbers. Splitting up into separate tribes and dissociating from the larger group only aids those who are opposed to us having the same rights as everyone else. :2c:
Carol
I like Max's response. I am a crossdresser who is happy and proud to be under the transgender classification. However, since this whole area is always being questioned regarding who should be where, who is what and what does it all mean, plus adding in cultural and language differences as to what the terms mean in other countries, trying to settle on acceptable terminology is a lose - lose game and not really worth dragging up once a month on this site.
Good Friend Babs came up with a reason for The Reticence of SOME Crossdressers to ever associate themselves with anyone else in The Movement. Babs says: "Some Crossdressers like to have their cake and eat it too!" In other words, " I can be a Boy when I want, I can dress up and Act Girly when I want, AND I can hide in The Closet!"
I think if you accept The Idea that you are transgendered, or if you just accept that it's an Umbrella Term for everyone in The Spectrum; then you have to make some sort of commitment, have to start looking at Issues from a Transgendered Perspective.
Anyway, I truly believe that Most of us are transgendered. Who among us hasn't ever had some "fantasies," had some "what if" scenarios run through their heads, or tried to suppress your femme-self from expressing herself at inappropriate times. Now, if I understand it correctly, all of the aforementioned episodes could be construed as being transgendered, if we use The Classic Definition.
So, I don't have a problem with BEING Transgendered, nor with being labeled part of The Transgender Movement. I could be wrong, but I kind of think people who express their opposition too strenuously, are probably dealing with a bunch of Denial Hobgoblins roaming around inside their heads!
Peace and Love, Joanie
We are so alike..... same here.... really don't need any support or organization to help me or to further my causes.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate Simmons
I ditto that. Never gave it a thought as to what label someone wants to put on me and I really don't care. My being a CD is not on the top of the list of causes I would go out of my way to fight for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karren Hutton
Don't misunderstand me, I respect those that are Transsexual and the battles they fight to at least be allowed to have equal housing and marriage rights. Same for gays. But no, I do not feel I am part of the LGBT community. Very little in common with most of that group. But I am glad they do what they do and support their right to carry on their battles.
I'm an LGBT supporter and have for years. In unity there is strength, I agree with Carol.
H Marleena, I think that they feel like that we are the Red headed step child,
It is a good thing from an "Awaerness" standpoint. As GBLT issues are brought to the forefront, and our rights are defined, the bigger the crowd, the greater the voive we have
There are relatively few of us in the LGBT community and fewer still who are 'out' to any degree. We should be grateful to the LGB's for including us. When a significant number of us actually leave the closet and proclaim (oe even admit to) our existance we could concievably do our own advocacy. Until then we must hang on to the coat tails of others.
Funny, I just blogged about this subject....
There has always been a bit of disagreement over how broad the "transgender umbrella" should be defined. The best historically referenced definition I've been able to find is "a socio-political term referring to anyone with a non-conforming gender". So, I suppose it's intended to be pretty broad.
I definitely identify as transgender and I worry that, by defining the term too broadly, it encourages society as a whole to lump us all in the same bucket. I worry that I get associated with those who present themselves as trashy or subservient or some other grotesque caricature of female.
If I had my choice, transgender would be strictly about gender identity and the cosplayers and fetishist would not be part of the umbrella. Even so, part of me realizes that many of the "cosplayers and fetishist" may actually have a non-conforming gender identity and just not be ready or able to embrace it.....so it comes out in unhealthy ways.
If that's the case, then they can and should benefit from the support of a TG community.
A word to those CD's who don't like to be callled TG's! If you wear the clothing of the opposite sex you are transgendered! Of course you can think what you want about yourself, but you are still transgendered! That is just another label that hardly anyone pays any attention to. We are all people, and we are all different, thank heaven! Don't worry about labels, just be glad you are alive!
I think it's good to have representation from a larger community, but I would think that those that don't know us or about us, automaticly assume we're all gay. Although some of us are, the cd/tg community as a whole is not. Again, fragmentations and assumptions.
But,then, are we actually being represented fairly, or was this just a convenient place to stick us, as an afterthought?
Personally I like the representation. In my area there is a HUGE debate going on as to whether or not businesses should be aloud to discriminate against people of alternative sexuality or "alternate gender identities" I think that if it was just transgender people we would be swept under the rug and no one would hardly notice. Not that there aren't a lot of CDers but in comparison to the numbers of all that identify in the "LGBT umbrella" we are few. Plus as others have said its just a title and I don't care about the title the support of others with similar minds is comforting.
I love this! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate Simmons
I don't feel I have a need for special rights or a voice in politics just because I wear pretty shoes...
What are we talking about here: social classification? politics? marketing? Because I think whether being under the same umbrella is "good" or "bad" depends on the answer to that.
I see CDing as being affiliated with transgenderism, so view the following through that lens.
I have a gay brother who knows my story as I know his. We love, respect, and support each other, but I can't say that he understands CDing at all; I can't say I understand being attracted to a man. There is very little practical overlap between our two worlds other than that both of our people are marginalized and live with the threat of potential oppression by the majority that determines The Norm.
As far as putting our message out there about who we are, I think being grouped together works against both groups there too. The end result seems to be that people commonly think gays want to be girls and that CDers are inherently gay. Being grouped together makes our marketing effort more difficult because all it does is cloud the waters.
But if we're talking politics, how can we turn up our noses at groups that are willing to add their voices to ours? Politics is about forming alliances. The members of the GLBT communities face common threats, and are trying to gain acceptance. I'll gladly stand alongside them and accept their support. That's just smart politics.
In fact, as far as I'm concerned, let's see if we can expand GLBT to include all kinds of marginalized, misunderstood people: druids, Trekkies, Cubs fans, people who like peanut butter and mayonnaise sandwiches...
OK, some of those are more seriously marginalized by others, but I think you get my point. :heehee:
I think that gender identity/expression is a broad spectrum. I also think that there may be a surprising number of people, born male or female, who don't acknowledge, don't express, but who have opposite-gender personality aspects or traits nonetheless. Not everyone can be simplified in square peg, round peg terms.
In a previous comment, someone mentioned fetishists as not being part of that spectrum. I'm not sure. I think it's likely that in some cases, what begins as a "fetish" may have deeper roots.
Personally, I'm fine with being considered transgender to whatever extent that may be true of me. Once I might have rejected that idea - but after awhile, some things begin to fit. Besides, I like girly me.
If the crossdressing is purely for sexual reasons such as a fetish than the man is using the objects for sexual arousal and does not seek or experience transformation for other reasons and in my mind I would not think of this person as transgendered unless....
Also crossdressing could feasibly be done for aesthetic reasons much like an artist paints but this is done with clothing and the body is the canvas and I would not think of this person as transgendered unless......
Transgendered implies transformation from one place to another within the individual, it is leaving one emotional state (emotional energy) behind and going into another and than back again (possibly back again)
In my opinion for the transsexual there is not a transformation but a revelation that is transformative through being restorative so is not movement between the opposite emotional energies of the feminine and masculine that the crossdresser who is transgendered experiences (the woman within the man) but the discovery and pursuit of original but lost truth through external changes.
In my opinion to consider yourself transgendered you must experience or want to experience inner transformation by external transformation.
The seriousness of the transgendered label could cause insult or concern for those crossdressers who just do it for entertainment and not for the transformative aspects.
I am a heterosexual cross dresser, who is married. I agree with Tracii. Under my state law and enhanced local law cross dressers, gays and lesbians all enjoy the same rights. If cross dressers tried to get a separate law passed, they'd hit a brick wall. A lesbian or gay can pretty much 'hide' their identity. A MTF cross dresser, en femme, teaching kintergarten will not fly.
I am transgender.
I prefer to present as female no matter how guy I am.