The 50 shades of "Passing" and "Self confidence".

Reading yet another strongly supported thread about one of us who goes out often and doesn't give a darn if she's clocked. That's nice. And, very important if u r TS and live as a female. Or, r a CD who is out and goes out dressed often. If u need to dress and go out u need to live your life without fear.:thumbsup:
But, MOST of us don't fall into those catagories. Most r closet dressers like me.

But, when I look at the avatars of the confident posters? They all look quite passable to me.

Here's my point: Passing is the Golden Standard. If u can pass, even some of the time? It makes going out much less stressful. Compared to those of us that don't never pass. Let me correct that. Maybe I can pass from behind. But, since I will never see that person looking me it doesn't really count.:straightface:

I go out often. I just did 5 days out and dressed in Vegas. Thotful staff referred to me as, "Mam". One said, "Sir", then added, "Mam". Sometimes women walking past would smile at me. But, it was always that "knowing" smile. Which says, "Of course, you're a guy in a dress. So what?" Men usually don't give me that, or any smile. For which I'm thankful!:heehee:

I'm a closet dresser who constantly notices the disapproving looks. Blank stares. Or, hears titters and comments; "That was a guy!", "Did u see that?", "What the hell?", "OMG!", etc. I've gotten used to it but still don't like it!:sad: I find it stressful and it can be quite discouraging. If I could pass once and awhile it would be much less stressful.

It makes me wonder if other dressers accept a steady diet of that same crap?
So, my question is for all u "confident" girls who go out dressed anywhere at the drop of a summer hat? Where do u think u r on the "Passing Scale"? :brolleyes:

0%- Never, like me. Except from behind or midnite at the North Pole.:doh:

25%- U pass some of the time. This includes everyone who sees u; passerbys, glancing at u as u drive by, everyone!:straightface:

50%- Half the time folks may think you're a female.:)

75%- Most folks see u as a woman.:D
95%+- U pass nearly all the time, everywhere.:love:

Maybe 2% of the time, but I really don't think I "pass" I just blend and get by with minimal comments that I've become used to so no big deal.

I am much too self conscious for my own good. I am much too concerned with what others think of me and therefore much to aware of peoples reactions to my presence.

I dont dress anymore as I have explained elsewhere, but I went through a long escalation of my dressing activities, getting to a point where I considered if I needed to be full time.

When I was younger, I think I passed reasonably well, but being realistic and humble about it, let me settle on your 25% point of the scale. Maybe I did better, but again I am and always were very conscious about it all.
Now, if I were to dress again and go out, I think I would be in the 0% category. From a mile away, in the dark, yes, I would have a chance, but I am really not interested in that.

Back when I did go out quite a bit, those moments when someone clearly (to me) read me, were devastating! It could completely ruin a day or more and it would make me not go out for a long time.

I can preach all day long to others that passing doesnt matter and that it is all a matter of what makes you feel good, to hell with everybody else. But the fact is, I almost never take my own advise.

I have often found myself envious (in that good kinda' way, you know!) of others who are able to simply not care what others think of them. I wish I could do that.

- Suzie

Like Suzie I'm not actively dressing theses day, but back in the day I'd say I was passing 50-75% of the time. It always brought me up a little short when I was read, but that just motivated me to find ways to minimize my male traits. The confidence aspect cannot be overstated. o.k. that and having been blessed with a small body frame. A lot of it has to do with your basic personality and how easily you let other people's comments roll off your back. I was never one to take the criticism of strangers too seriously, but then I did a lot of theater in high school so I was used to being critiqued by people whose opinion did matter. Strangers were nothing to me.

Update: Just wanted to add that for the 25-50% who did see me as a man in a dress I hope they at least thought "but he's a pretty man in a dress."

I'll play Sherry.

For anyone who looks at me eye to eye: 0%

Anyone with whom I converse: 0%

I think I should add that I suspect they think I have transitioned as opposed to being a cross dresser. When I met my hair stylist the first time, she asked if I was full-time. It's my opinion that transition is more known than cross dressing.

I would say I'm somewhere on the scale of 10 to 25 percent but maybe not that good. I'm more confidant going out then I use to be but that doesn't mean I'm passing. I just think who really cares anyway so many people are just minding there own business.

0 % In my corset out having coffee this morning
25% once I changed in to my shopping clothes today
Attachment 244059
50% in the day time, when I put more real clothes on, besides most people are to busy to on their IPhone to look my way, or they don't care to comment.
75% if they have been drinking heavily
95% if they are blind & deaf

I think I'm somewhere in the 25% to 50% range, but I might be fooling myself. It's impossible to know what's going through the heads of those who see me, or what conversations may follow after I have passed by. I have had a few experiences where people have interacted with me at pretty close range (SAs at a women's boutique, for example) and not figured it out, which totally shocked me when they happened. On the other hand, I've been "made" in some casual and long distance contacts when I wasn't expecting it, also.

- Diane

I would say 50 to 60% if my makeup is just right.:battingeyelashes:

Same here Natalie, 50% is good enough for me.

Sherry,
I went out tonight in a nice dress with my SO to a movie and dinner at chili's. WE were both called ladies several time tonight and I thought that I passed really good. Never got to many looks except from a few men who may have admired me because a lady in a dress is always pretty. We tried to take a couple pictures to post yet they were dark. I will try to post from the next outing. So tonight I passed 100 percent.

OK, usual Donna cynicism aside, how do you tell? How can you quantify???

No-ones rolled around on the floor laughing at me, pointed and screamed obscenities or even made a scene. Is it because I pass 100% or....

I really believe I look exactly like what I am, a bloke in a dress, but I (apparently) limit my public appearances to a 100% polite community who wouldn't let on they can see the bleeding obvious or are in serious need of emergency optometry.

If Donna has a theme song then it's 'walk like a man', by Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons!!!!

I'd like to say I pass about 70%, but I'm not sure if that is more about adults being adult and polite.

I avoid young people between 12 and 25. I don't know if they are more observant or just lack the manners of those with a few more years on them.

So I probably pass somewhere between 20% and 70%.

25 - 50% (I occasionally get called ma'am when not dressed)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jenniferathome

I'll play Sherry.

For anyone who looks at me eye to eye: 0%

Anyone with whom I converse: 0%

I think I should add that I suspect they think I have transitioned as opposed to being a cross dresser. When I met my hair stylist the first time, she asked if I was full-time. It's my opinion that transition is more known than cross dressing.

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R u intentuonally leaving these folks out, Jenn?
"-----This includes everyone who sees u; passerbys, glancing at u as u drive by, everyone!"
I'd guess from your avatar you'd pass with at least 50% of these folks?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donnagirl

OK, usual Donna cynicism aside, how do you tell? How can you quantify???
--------------------------------------------

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Seriously, Donna? U can tell when u pass. As someone who never passes except on Halloween? It goes like this when I'm dealing with SA's and business staff: When their eyes get wide as saucers, when they stutter, when they go way overboard to be nice, when they compliment something you're wearing that u know looks like crap, when they get nervous like a spider's crawling on them? U didn't pass!

When they pratically ignore u, don't give u a second look, look bored or don't stop what they're doing to assist u? U passed!

It's kinda like, if you're not sure whether or not u passed? U just did!

My Mindreader5000 (patent pending) says that everyone is just being civil.

I hope that I don't sound like a bragger but I probably pass 95% of the time. But my wife might add, "And than he woke up." I think after years of doing what I do have paid off with convincing make-up, voice, walk and gesturing as well as a decent wardrobe. It does not hurt that I am only 5'5" and 5'9" in 4' heels. I have a confidence from having done this for so long that helps me pass as well. So if someone does question my gender and watches me in action for a while, I'm pretty sure they would stop guessing, look away and say , "What was I thinking, that surely must be a real woman." I'm going to NYC tomorrow for a long anticipated day in NYC en femme. I can't wait to be navigating the museums restaurants and stores with new friends from this site. I have two delicious dresses to wear and cannot wait to feel the cool Spring breeze on my stocking covered legs as we navigate the streets. Living, if only for a day in the real world, as your complete self, is actually more relaxing and less stressful than you think. It's like taking a tranquilizer that lasts weeks between doses. Also, being no Spring chicken helps since we older women don't get the attention the young ones garner. All in all a great combo to just get out and enjoy life as myself once in a while.

Hi Sherry,

I guess it really depends on how you define "passing". If it is just moving through a crowded mall or a busy street in flow with the foot traffic and people are really giving anyone the time of day when it comes to staring . . . then I would say 75% for me. I tend to blend quite well because of my size and body type and while I am not site to behold on the "beauty scale" . . . I think my facial features are finer than the average male (got that from my father . . . yes believe it or not fine features run down the male line). So as cognitive processors most people will see, smaller frame, long hair, finer features, girl clothes and process girl.

Now . . . if we are talking close up interaction or a crowed space (bus, elevator) then probably 0% will see me as a woman. Although I can soften my voice it is still male, my make-up (i.e., foundation) is far too heavy for a GG and my facial features although fine, are still guy. So no passing muster on close-up inspection.

Hugs

Isha

For the typical CD, I think regular passing is just not going to happen. Of course there are exceptions. But we can still go out in public. We may have to endure stupid comments sometimes but I think even those are less common than they used to be. And yes, occasionally we can be in real danger of physical harm but that does not happen enough to keep me home. CD social events and conventions are a good way to be out in public and just "picking your spots" helps. too.

I like to think that I'm somewhere in the 50-75% range. Of course that may be me deluding myself, but then again I don't really care anymore.
I'm just happy to be able to express myself and if people see me as a woman or not isn't the point anymore. I feel that I am that woman and that is what matters to me. Being confident and being accepted for who I am is the big deal.

Okay DocRobbySherry,

So most the time I go out in female clothing i'm not wearing my wig nor make-up, probably not even shaved. I'm confident and of course I'm not passing, so therefore my ability to pass is not related to my confidence.

When I put on the wig and make-up, I'm LESS confident, and at sufficient distance I get away with it, close-up forget it, no pass. I'm less confident because in this mode i'm trying to pass, at least enough to not be noticed at the gas station! Then i'm probably going to our local CD group, where everyone knows, so there's no passing option, and that's fine. 0-25%?

I am somewhere between 0% and -10%
any illusion that I would pass would have to be
some sort of a psychotic delusion. :thinking:

And for that reason, I almost never go out, Not a big fan of the
" titters and comments; "That was a guy!", "Did u see that?", "What the hell?", "OMG!", etc.

0% most of the time. I only pass barely in highly staged photo shoots. And I'm 99% lazy about using makeup. But, I'm certainly having 100% of a good time when I go out. It just depends on the mood. Manley looking woman, guy with boobs? I'm always aware of my surroundings for safety reasons but, more focused on just feeling good being out and about.

If we are including casual passers-by, then I guess I pass 25-50% of the time. I have had situations where someone starts to talk to me and then they do a quick double-take. Presumably, if they had just passed by, they would have thought I was just an ordinary girl.

For me I would say 75% I pass some of the time BUT I have to dress to blend that means no high heels jeans or slacks, seldom skirts, toned down makeup. etc.
Now if I get real done up heels, etc I'll drop that number down to 25%.