Different Crossdressing Styles

OK, so I am confused. I see corssdressers who look very demure and quite like a GG, then I see crossdressers who scream look at me and dress very sexually, then of course there are the drag queens, similar but different, and those who like the sissy look. These all seem to be lumped together as crossdressers or transvestites. I think that most of the demure dressers are most likely more straight than gay but am wondering if the wow look at me dressers and drag queens are more likely to be gay than straight or thinking they are straight and just not realizing they are gay. Are there differnet terms for the different styles of crossdressers and if not there should be. I have looked at the definitions and they just dont seem adequate or very clear on the subject. I am not against anybody showing their feminine side in their own style but I think society frowns on the whole subject bacuase of the more flamboyent and attention grabbing styles of drag queens and wow look at me dressers. I think as a result any man that dresses as a woman is automatically considered gay. That leaves the more demure crowd often hiding in the closet out of fear of reaction and rejection which is were I currently am. Can anybody out there shed a little light on this?

I think this is similar to most groups. Goths as a whole are not a bad group, but because of the more ostentatious ones that stand out we get a negative image. Same goes for emos, metal-heads, punks, or just about any fashion group you can think of. The ones that grab the attention set the view for the rest, whether its correct or not.

Suzy we all have our own motivations for presenting as female and the way we dress often reflects those motivations. Some dress to reflect our desire to be women, some dress because we love the clothes, some dress for sexual thrill, some dress for the attention and to be rebellious toward societies conventions.

How we dress is rarely reflects our sexuality just as it does in the cis gendered world. Many confuse gender and sexuality. The fact is it get really confusing when the two are combined and I have found that is why many cis-gender folks feel uncomfortable about transgender folks.

I subscribe to the fact that society needs to see more of the "demure" girls out and about. You will be noticed, there will be reactions and yes you will even run into rejection. It is not the fault of more "flamboyant" styles of dressing. It is simply due to misunderstanding on the part of others. Another category won't solve that misunderstanding. The only way others learn who YOU really are is to be exposed to you.

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Originally Posted by Suzy Satin

OK, so I am confused. I see corssdressers who look very demure and quite like a GG, then I see crossdressers who scream look at me and dress very sexually, then of course there are the drag queens, similar but different, and those who like the sissy look. These all seem to be lumped together as crossdressers or transvestites. I think that most of the demure dressers are most likely more straight than gay but am wondering if the wow look at me dressers and drag queens are more likely to be gay than straight or thinking they are straight and just not realizing they are gay

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Other than "drag queens", there is no significant different in sexual orientation between those groups that I know of. Remember, some dress in a manner that turns them on, in whatever particular look floats their personal boat. A "drag queen" is usually used to denote a gay men who performs on stage etc. dressed, though some may also be TS and do it as a way of earning a living; there is the more generic "female impersonator" who can be gay or straight men who perform en femme. Many sissies are soft/submissive but to women only (often seen as a mother figure by them.)

Most DQs and FIs would not be clinically considered transvestites (or "crossdressers"), as they just do it as an act on stage etc.

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Originally Posted by Suzy Satin

These all seem to be lumped together as crossdressers or transvestites.

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I agree, these terms are a catch-all for a number of different CDing motives. The issue is further complicated because even the intensity of motives can fluctuate or change, either depending on mood or during the course of a lifetime as the barriers that make CDing difficult are removed. The term "crossdresser" is misleading as well, since it implies the gender barriers are only crossed by "dressing" and do not affect internal gender ID.

Also, the accepted theory is that gender ID is not tied to sexual preference, yet I've read countless threads here from TSs who say they were interested in women before HRT, and in men afterward.

I also have a difficult time knowing the difference between someone who identifies as a CDer but who wishes to present full time as a full-on woman, and someone who is transsexual. How can someone who says they identify as a guy, not wish to ever present as a guy? :strugglin Isn't the desire to no longer live as the gender assigned at birth the same, whether or not someone chooses to have SRS or calls themselves "TS"? Maybe people have different definitions of "TS", and this is why they identify differently while doing the same thing. There are people who have low libidos or who are asexual, or who do not have the money for SRS, or who otherwise naturally have low testosterone levels (as they age for example), or who have medical problems, or who don't differentiate between being orgasmic as a male or a female (perhaps they consider their penises to be a clitoris), who would be quite content living life as a woman full time without having SRS.

Although there will be variations, these are the major groupings that help me to loosely classify where people are at with all of this, keeping in mind that all except the last (and some of the members from the first) fall under the "Transgender" [TG] umbrella:

This list describes M2Fs only, and excludes those who dress strictly for show, such as some Drag Queens.

• Transvectic fetishist, or fetish CD, or fetish transvestite [TF or FCD or FTV]: Someone who dresses for sex only, does not otherwise wish to wear female clothes, and does not otherwise have a feminine gender ID.
  
  
• Pure crossdresser or transvestite [CD or TV]: someone who likes to dress as a woman, not necessarily for sex, but who identifies solidly as a man. He may go out looking like a guy who wears women's clothing (no makeup, wig, or forms, etc), or he may want to fully emulate the "look" of a woman when he is dressed.
  
  
• Bigender [BG]: Someone who identifies as, and feels like a woman when dressed, and solidly as a man when not.
  
  
• Dualgender [DG]: Someone who always feels a mix of both genders internally and who dresses accordingly depending on whether it is the maleness or the femaleness that is at the forefront on any given day. IMO this is the most difficult state to define, since the scale here can be very wide, and the degree of feminine presentation perhaps can vary. I also would classify Androgenes as fitting in here (loosely and generally speaking of course :p).
  
  
• Transsexual or Transwoman [TS or TW]: Someone who thinks of herself as a woman and who has no desire to live her life as her male birth assigned gender, whether or not she plans to have SRS, or whether or not she is on HRT.
  
  
• Woman: A post op MtF TS who has no regrets about switching gender (although she may regret various losses along the way) and who has fully integrated into her new life.
  
  
• Between each of these categories, there can be, BGQ (questionning bigender), DGQ (questionning dualgender), or TSQ (questionning transwoman or TS).

(Caveat: It can also be sexual for a crossdresser, bigender, dualgender, transwoman, and woman and this does not mean she is a transvectic fetishist.)

I'm sure my list will expand or change as I continue to learn about this. :)

I believe the way you dress not necessarily reflect your sexual orientation, I am gay and I can dress like the girl next door or your generic fem fatale... I only wish I was more skilled to do the Drag Queen look

Leaving aside gender identity, sexual orientation and reasons for dressing I can think of the following crossdressing styles (listed alphabetically):

BDSM
Drag queen
Girl/lady next door
Lingerie
Man in skirt/dress
Sexy
Sissy
Underdresser

Am I missing any?

Some CDs may present more than one of these at different times or a mixture of two or more at the same time.

I myself go for the lady-next-door (for I am too old to be considered a girl). If I don't have enough time, I will feminise my face without wearing any female clothes. I don't have any interest in underdresssing or being a man in a skirt/dress. I'm an all or nothing CD.

The problem with categories is that not everyone fits neatly into them. For example, I dress rather "demurely" yet I like bondage. Not the whips and chains variety but what we like to call "damsel in distress" style. And even within that style there are many variations. At times dressing can be very sexual for me other times I just like to relax all dressed up. I also like to try to look as close to a woman as possible yet I enjoy my time as a man when I'm not dressed.
-Audrey

well i was born male, still have all the parts, live my work live as male, but just as soon as i get home into a cute outfit. sleep in a nitey, and can not remember the last time i had on any mens clothing. (other than work for the outer things). i have new mens undies that are well over two years old and have never been worn.
socks not included here, but then they are gender neutral.
and i am thinking about some body "adjustments".
and no none of this is "just for sex"
and i just like pretty girls.

not sure were this puts me in the cross dresser world...maybe a bit in the ts world? as i would love to be loni full time for some time, not just a couple hrs or a week or so.

i guess it is not just a straight line but a cubed thing, were the differences go into each other from, and to all directions.

like grasping water, the tighter your grip the more you loose. the more open your hand the more you can hold.

I dress very conservatively!! Nuns don't do sexy well. Lol

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Although there will be variations, these are the major groupings that help me to loosely classify where people are at with all of this, keeping in mind that all except the last (and also possibly the first) fall under the "Transgender" [TG] umbrella:

Transvectic fetishist, or fetish CD, or fetish transvestite [TF or FCD or FTV]: Someone who dresses for sex only, does not otherwise wish to wear female clothes, and does not otherwise have a feminine gender ID.

Pure crossdresser or transvestite [CD or TV]: someone who likes to dress as a woman, not necessarily for sex, but who identifies solidly as a man. He may go out looking like a guy who wears women's clothing, or he may want to fully emulate the "look" of a woman when he is dressed.

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Reine, I'm going to disagree with your bumping transvestic fetishists out from under the transgender umbrella. And about the only difference between them and pure cd's, as you call them, is the word "necessarily".
Many of us like to dress and make up completely to emulate the look of a woman and are driven to do so because it is sexually arousing, and our dressup sessions usually end in "pleasure". One who transforms fully is a crossdresser. By the way, not all crossdressers transform fully, as many don't wear makeup or wigs. Is it necessary to climb inside the mind of one who dresses in order to assign a classification?
There are men who have a fetish for women's clothing or shoes who do not crossdress. They might fondle the article while arousal builds, or even look at pictures of those items that arouse. Even though it's women's clothes that arouse, if they don't wear it, it's not crossdressing.
There are men who like to wear pantyhose, for example, to build sexual arousal and no other reason. Such limited wear is, at a bare minimum, transvestic fetishism, but could be seen simply as fetish, and not rising (no pun intended) to the level of crossdressing.
Some time ago, there was a thread "what's your fetish?". Some responses were "I like pantyhose". That's not a fetish. If an object BY ITSELF can bring sexual arousal, that's a fetish. Some fetishists have multiple fetishes and enjoy combining them all into a complete transformation session, thereby increasing the excitement beyond what one object alone can do. Though sexually driven, complete transformation must be considered crossdressing and fall under the transgender umbrella, because it is a behavior that crosses traditional gender lines (motive irrevelant).
Otherwise:
"Honey, I do wear makeup and women's clothes, but you'll be glad to know that I'm not really a crossdresser."

Just for fun, classify this: a man has fetishes for, let's say, thigh high stockings and high heels. He tells his wife, and she's accepting, and discovers that she likes the effect it has on him when he wears them while they have sex. The thigh highs and high heels bring him to maximum excitement, and everybody's happy with the result. Unless they are having sex, he doesn't wear them. How is he to be classified?

Yes, I understood your classifications to be "loosely".

Drag queens and sissys and tarts! Oh my!:eek:


I guess I'm one of those bad crossdressers that cause society to have a poor opinion of "us." :devil: If it wasn't for our kind, people would celebrate the presence of crossdressers in the community. Fathers would tell their sons, "Why can't you be a proper lady like Mr. Jones over there?" Heck, there probably would have been a CD president by now (assuming there hasn't been one.):daydreaming: Oh well, you just have to play the hand you're dealt and move on.:2c:

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

Reine, I'm going to disagree with your bumping transvestic fetishists out from under the transgender umbrella. And about the only difference between them and pure cd's, as you call them, is the word "necessarily". Many of us like to dress and make up completely to emulate the look of a woman and are driven to do so because it is sexually arousing, and our dressup sessions usually end in "pleasure".

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I know. That's why I wrote "except perhaps" TFs. I actually was thinking of a division within this subgroup: the people who are into a few or more articles of clothing purely for fetish reasons as you explain below would be excluded from the TG umbrella, while those who get a sexual charge on the complete transformation, like you, would not be.

I'll go back and change it, to [TF] "A" and "B" or something.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

One who transforms fully is a crossdresser. By the way, not all crossdressers transform fully, as many don't wear makeup or wigs.

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Isn't that what I said? :) "He may go out looking like a guy who wears women's clothing". I didn't specify, but this means without wig, makeup, or forms, etc.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

There are men who have a fetish for women's clothing or shoes who do not crossdress. They might fondle the article while arousal builds, or even look at pictures of those items that arouse. Even though it's women's clothes that arouse, if they don't wear it, it's not crossdressing.

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Well, if they don't wear the clothes, then they're not invited to the party! :D

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

There are men who like to wear pantyhose, for example, to build sexual arousal and no other reason. Such limited wear is, at a bare minimum, transvestic fetishism, but could be seen simply as fetish, and not rising (no pun intended) to the level of crossdressing.

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These people would fit in the first group [TF], excluded from the TG umbrella.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

Just for fun, classify this: a man has fetishes for, let's say, thigh high stockings and high heels. He tells his wife, and she's accepting, and discovers that she likes the effect it has on him when he wears them while they have sex. The thigh highs and high heels bring him to maximum excitement, and everybody's happy with the result. Unless they are having sex, he doesn't wear them. How is he to be classified?

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Somewhere in the first group, [TF]. Whether or not he fits under the TG umbrella will depend on whether or not he is imagining himself to be the woman, no matter how many articles of clothing it takes to get him there. :) It's all about the motive.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

Is it necessary to climb inside the mind of one who dresses in order to assign a classification?

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No. This is just a tool that might be helpful to the GGs who are trying to make sense of it all. And it may be helpful for some CDers too. The classifications don't describe every single person along the spectrum, as I explained, but they do describe the major subgroups give or take subtle variances or overlaps.

But, it is a tad better than what we have now: CD or TS, both of which fit under "TG", which doesn't account for fetishists, the guy in the dress, the CD who becomes a woman when she dresses, the person who is always the same and can't define him or herself, the androgine, and the TS who has transitioned and who doesn't at all wish to associate with any of this. :p

One big factor is one's dressing style has to do with fetishes and comfort level.
Once you have had your fun with all the extreme stuff, you tend to gravitate towards conservative. Or maybe a chic style.

Why bother to categorize at all? There will always be exceptions and those that fit 'between' one category or another. Plus, to me, categorizing is like trying to put a label on each of us, which many times breeds prejudice in one form or another. If you want to call me something, just call me Krystal, thank you.

Hi Reine,

Please excuse this PM, but I thought you would prefer to be the one who corrects the oversight in your list:

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Although there will be variations, these are the major groupings that help me to loosely classify where people are at with all of this, keeping in mind that all except the last (and also possibly the first) fall under the "Transgender" [TG] umbrella:

• Transvectic fetishist, or fetish CD, or fetish transvestite [TF or FCD or FTV]:
  ...
  
• Pure crossdresser or transvestite [CD or TV]:
  ...
  
• Bigender [BG]:
  ...
  
• Dualgender [DG]:
  ...
  
• Transsexual or Transwoman [TS or TW]:
  ...
  
• Woman:
  ...
  
• Between each of these categories, there can be, BGQ (questionning bigender), DGQ (questionning dualgender), or TSQ (questionning transwoman or TS).

I'm sure my list will expand or change as I continue to learn about this. :)

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I'm sure you did not mean to leave out the Trans Men and from there Men




EDIT: My apologies to Reine for posting publicly what was supposed to be a PM

Thanks Rianna. I didn't specify, but this list strictly describes MtFs, and not all trans individuals. I'll go back and specify this now, so as not to offend anyone.

Many of the categories here wouldn't fit FtMs at all.

Renee, you are probably more right than wrong, most of it makes a lot sense, but I think we should keep this knowledge in house, if the world finds out we are talking about this, they will find a way to divide us into different camps and having us at war with each other in no time. fighting will break out between BG's, and DG's, cheered on by the CD's, while the TS's lead the battle against the TW's, In think I'll just call myself a CD/TV and let it go at that. I think in some ways we are more the same, than different.
Tina B.

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Originally Posted by KrystalA

Why bother to categorize at all? There will always be exceptions and those that fit 'between' one category or another. Plus, to me, categorizing is like trying to put a label on each of us, which many times breeds prejudice in one form or another. If you want to call me something, just call me Krystal, thank you.

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Krystal, if you are asking the OP why she started this thread, then please ignore my answer, although my guess is that the OP is wanting to gain a better understanding for herself.

But if you are asking why I came up with a list, then please read the last two paragraphs in my post #13. :)

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Originally Posted by Tina B.

I think we should keep this knowledge in house, if the world finds out we are talking about this, they will find a way to divide us into different camps and having us at war with each other in no time.

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Tina ... I disagree that greater understanding would lead to more arguments. I believe that people argue because they don't understand each other well enough. :sad:

I do both the Demure, and "wow, look at me".

It is pretty much accepted that Drag Queens in general are gay. Drag also take on a look that is at times a caricature of women, and often offensive. My look is "sexi" but not over the top, and insulting to women.

The "sissy" look is another I will not do.

I am quite sure I am not gay, or in denial, and I take a little offense to that thought process. I did not like how there were two but similar choices in your preposition.

What continues the impulse to hide, is THE IMPULSE TO HIDE and people giving into it.

My style is also "exotic" as I call it. Fem/androgynous is my more preferred look. It is very stand out.

The reason we are considered gay is because less informed or developed minds automatically connect feminine looks with being a woman, and if you are a woman, then you must be attracting MEN. Of course we know this to be untrue in many circumstances.

Something that does not help is the media and popular thought.

I also would like clarification about the use of the word demure as in context with the OP. Do you mean just "decent" looking clothes (according to who's criteria?) or are you referring to those that blend in, and thus in many ways become invisible?

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Although there will be variations, these are the major groupings that help me to loosely classify where people are at with all of this, keeping in mind that all except the last (and some of the members from the first) fall under the "Transgender" [TG] umbrella:

This list describes M2Fs only, and excludes those who dress strictly for show, such as some Drag Queens.

• Transvectic fetishist, or fetish CD, or fetish transvestite [TF or FCD or FTV]: Someone who dresses for sex only, does not otherwise wish to wear female clothes, and does not otherwise have a feminine gender ID.
  
  
• Pure crossdresser or transvestite [CD or TV]: someone who likes to dress as a woman, not necessarily for sex, but who identifies solidly as a man. He may go out looking like a guy who wears women's clothing (no makeup, wig, or forms, etc), or he may want to fully emulate the "look" of a woman when he is dressed.
  
  
• Bigender [BG]: Someone who identifies as, and feels like a woman when dressed, and solidly as a man when not.
  
  
• Dualgender [DG]: Someone who always feels a mix of both genders internally and who dresses accordingly depending on whether it is the maleness or the femaleness that is at the forefront on any given day. IMO this is the most difficult state to define, since the scale here can be very wide, and the degree of feminine presentation perhaps can vary. I also would classify Androgenes as fitting in here (loosely and generally speaking of course :p).
  
  
• Transsexual or Transwoman [TS or TW]: Someone who thinks of herself as a woman and who has no desire to live her life as her male birth assigned gender, whether or not she plans to have SRS, or whether or not she is on HRT.
  
  
• Woman: A post op MtF TS who has no regrets about switching gender (although she may regret various losses along the way) and who has fully integrated into her new life.
  
  
• Between each of these categories, there can be, BGQ (questionning bigender), DGQ (questionning dualgender), or TSQ (questionning transwoman or TS).

(Caveat: It can also be sexual for a crossdresser, bigender, dualgender, transwoman, and woman and this does not mean she is a transvectic fetishist.)

I'm sure my list will expand or change as I continue to learn about this. :)

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Wow, Reine. Thank you so much for sharing this list! It helps me better understand the wide variations in our little club here, and helps me understand more of myself as well.

I've been calling myself a gender blender, because I feel myself to be somehow inclusive of both genders at all times, with the differences being in what range of clothing I'm wearing and what particular set of feelings or behaviors I'm experiencing. Because I've changed my body to reflect aspects of both genders, I've felt the label CD doesn't adequately capture the qualities of who I am. And even though my body is partly feminized, TS doesn't fit either because I enjoy this place between and have no thoughts of transitioning. (And yes, it's been the proverbial two years since I accepted my CDing :heehee:)

Thank you for putting so much time and attention into your categories. They seem careful, thoughtful, and helpful. And I get to be included. Hey everybody, I'm Dualgendered!!!! :cheer:

Hugs,

Rachel

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Originally Posted by ReineD

I agree, these terms are a catch-all for a number of different CDing motives. The issue is further complicated because even the intensity of motives can fluctuate or change, either depending on mood or during the course of a lifetime as the barriers that make CDing difficult are removed. The term "crossdresser" is misleading as well, since it implies the gender barriers are only crossed by "dressing" and do not affect internal gender ID.

Also, the accepted theory is that gender ID is not tied to sexual preference, yet I've read countless threads here from TSs who say they were interested in women before HRT, and in men afterward.

I also have a difficult time knowing the difference between someone who identifies as a CDer but who wishes to present full time as a full-on woman, and someone who is transsexual. How can someone who says they identify as a guy, not wish to ever present as a guy? :strugglin Isn't the desire to no longer live as the gender assigned at birth the same, whether or not someone chooses to have SRS or calls themselves "TS"? Maybe people have different definitions of "TS", and this is why they identify differently while doing the same thing. There are people who have low libidos or who are asexual, or who do not have the money for SRS, or who otherwise naturally have low testosterone levels (as they age for example), or who have medical problems, or who don't differentiate between being orgasmic as a male or a female (perhaps they consider their penises to be a clitoris), who would be quite content living life as a woman full time without having SRS.

Although there will be variations, these are the major groupings that help me to loosely classify where people are at with all of this, keeping in mind that all except the last (and some of the members from the first) fall under the "Transgender" [TG] umbrella:

This list describes M2Fs only, and excludes those who dress strictly for show, such as some Drag Queens.

• Transvectic fetishist, or fetish CD, or fetish transvestite [TF or FCD or FTV]: Someone who dresses for sex only, does not otherwise wish to wear female clothes, and does not otherwise have a feminine gender ID.
  
  
• Pure crossdresser or transvestite [CD or TV]: someone who likes to dress as a woman, not necessarily for sex, but who identifies solidly as a man. He may go out looking like a guy who wears women's clothing (no makeup, wig, or forms, etc), or he may want to fully emulate the "look" of a woman when he is dressed.
  
  
• Bigender [BG]: Someone who identifies as, and feels like a woman when dressed, and solidly as a man when not.
  
  
• Dualgender [DG]: Someone who always feels a mix of both genders internally and who dresses accordingly depending on whether it is the maleness or the femaleness that is at the forefront on any given day. IMO this is the most difficult state to define, since the scale here can be very wide, and the degree of feminine presentation perhaps can vary. I also would classify Androgenes as fitting in here (loosely and generally speaking of course :p).
  
  
• Transsexual or Transwoman [TS or TW]: Someone who thinks of herself as a woman and who has no desire to live her life as her male birth assigned gender, whether or not she plans to have SRS, or whether or not she is on HRT.
  
  
• Woman: A post op MtF TS who has no regrets about switching gender (although she may regret various losses along the way) and who has fully integrated into her new life.
  
  
• Between each of these categories, there can be, BGQ (questionning bigender), DGQ (questionning dualgender), or TSQ (questionning transwoman or TS).

(Caveat: It can also be sexual for a crossdresser, bigender, dualgender, transwoman, and woman and this does not mean she is a transvectic fetishist.)

I'm sure my list will expand or change as I continue to learn about this. :)

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Now I'm even more confused about who I am :(

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Originally Posted by tabithavalentine

Now I'm even more confused about who I am :(

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This list is only a starting point and it can't possibly describe everyone completely since there are people in between the categories and also some who overlap categories. Don't let a discussion that explores the trans community in greater depths than just "CD" or" TS" overwhelm you. Read it again, and I'll bet there are some categories you can eliminate for yourself right off the bat.

Why don't you just tell us how the CDing plays out in your life? You may find that you are more like one group than another. Or, you may be an original! ;)

Thank you everyone for all of the input.

These are me, modified as they pertain to me.

•Pure crossdresser or transvestite [CD or TV]: I like to dress as a woman, not for sex, I identify solidly as a man. I want to fully emulate the "look" and "persona" of a woman when I am dressed.
•Bigender [BG]: Someone who identifies as, and feels like a woman when dressed, not for sex with either gender while dressed, solidly as a man when not, with normal sexual relationship with wife when not.


Thank You