Fact.....I tried, believe me i tried, i,ve even got a few scars to prove it! [Mental and physical]Originally Posted by MarcieM
Why the hell would we put ourselves through the crap we have to deal with in our lives if giving up was that easy?
Fact.....I tried, believe me i tried, i,ve even got a few scars to prove it! [Mental and physical]
Why the hell would we put ourselves through the crap we have to deal with in our lives if giving up was that easy?
Read the forum, read the costs in broken marriages and lives ...... do you think people do that through choice . I DAMN WELL DON'T
and as foryes it can doforced feminization, and everyone knows that doesn't happen.
I allow myself to set healthy boundaries ..... to say no to what does not align with my values, to say yes to what does.
Boundaries assist me to remain healthy, honest and living a life that is true to me
Where did I say it was EASY?
It's not easy, but anyone can quit cd-ing. It all depends on what you want to do. Keep cd-ing if that's your choice. Just don't make excuses and say you can't stop. Because it is a choice and you can stop if you really want to.
My natural disposition is to become highly confrontational. I would typically insist that they stop doing something they love which I could consider legitimately a problem and show them how asking me to do this would feel. Obviously, it would need to be a big habit of theirs, but it is my first reaction.
There is no validity to this statement.
It has been a part of our lives for so long it's literally hard wired into us. And for what its worth If my wife or family ever made an ultimatum like this to me
I would be very disappointed in them.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][SIZE="3"]Wild Women Never Get The Blues[/SIZE]
To answer the OP's question...I would stick to what I love best...being a lady. I am one of the many who think I should have been born a woman. I did not wake up one morning and think hmmm...I wonder what it's like to wear womens clothing. I have been doing this since I was about 7 or 8. All through my life on & off depending where & who I was living with. Once I was finally on my own,it was alot of the time. Nowadays it's all the time when I am not working. So for me it is not a choice,it's my way of life. I have had plenty of relationships & have never been married. Which is good. They say everything happens for a reason. I believe that. The way I see it is this is the way my life is suppose to be. Heck at least I found this out early in life & didn't destroy other peoples lives by getting married.
Yeah, my choice right??
C/ding cost me my marriage, my home and my self respect!!
I never even thought about it for over 11 years and it came back at me, believe me if i could have stopped i would have!!
I,m assuming by your posts you,ve quit c/ding?
How long for?
And the golden question.....If you have quit, why are you back on a crossdressing forum?
If you,ve quit, as it would seem you are saying, you wouldn,t even be thinking about c/ding, so why are you here?
Last edited by Deborah Jane; 02-12-2009 at 05:18 PM. Reason: pronounciation
really? who decides what forum I can read online?
that comment makes no sense. Just because I read this forum doesn't mean I have to cd.
Very true, you can read where and what you want, the point is, that by being here, you prove c/ding is obviously something you still think about.
You may not c/d any longer, but by being here you,re proving you still think about it!!
and your point is?
If you,ve quit c/ding and if it is indeed possible, why do you still feel the need to think about?
How long has it been since you last c/ded?
How long have you been quit?
I know for a fact it never even crossed my mind for 11 years, i wouldn,t have even thought about looking for information about it during that time!!
Sheila, you are exactly right here. I know. I went through it, nearly literaly went insane, hearing voices etc. It wasn't until I accepted being a crossdresser while I was in therapy (Christian therapists at that) that finally I received peace. I've told my story in other threads.
Also accepting my CD'ing also allowed me to determine how far it extended as far as being TS or what.
Yes it is true for a CD as well. After having peace about it for years, it was easy to determine that I was "just" a crossdresser and that I have no desire to go any farther. When you struggle with accepting yourself, you have no idea how far you need to go because of all the anguish. You can't sit still and listen to your heart. That changes when you truly accept yourself.
Joni
"Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free" Bob Dylan
I have spoken of my ultimatum elsewhere before but a potted history is:-
I have worn nighties and panties in my wifes presence for years and she was ok with it.
Within 3 weeks of my being honest with her about my inner desires and expanding into regular daywear female attire i had the ultimatum "stop or i leave"
We argued long and hard. I offered several compromises but all were rejected with no compromise coming back the other way. I said i couldn't stop dressing and we ended up saying we would therefore split sell the house and go our separate ways (we had even told family members we were splitting up)
Eventually, to try to save my marriage one last time i made the offer to go back to nighties and panties only and stop the rest (not really knowing whether i could cope with this offer.)
She asked why i did this and i said i loved her and didnt want to lose her.
After time mulling it over she came back with the response that we would stay together and she loved me too and it was unfair of her to ask me to stop doing what made me happy and i could carry on dressing provided i didn't involve her and no-one else was to know.(which were boundaries we had in place for that initial 3 week period anyway)
So basically it got very very close to the edge but all came good in the end but every couple is different so the outcomes could be different.
Though yours is an extreme case Katrina, I think that my girlfriend's statements of disapproval are partly because she does object, but also partly because she feels that if I don't stop, drop, and roll on command, I don't love her. I think that your expression of loving her regardless and being willing to end a part of your life for her was enough for her to understand where you're coming from.
In my case, I love my gf, but I do not have any intentions of marrying her, even if we've been together four years. I could not put myself in the position of being simply tied to her demands because it's a hell of a lot harder to leave her once married. My response to her every time she's demanded I stop some part of this has been "You are not tied to me, you can leave at any time. I don't want it, but I'd rather that than the other way around." I think for her it's much more a way to express control than to express displeasure.
I think you have to accept who you are and then manage that as best as you can.In my situation even though I would love to be totally out it is just not possible unless I wanted to jeopardise my marriage and children.I just hope that as time moves on I can have more time to be"me" as my feminine self whether thats at home or at a meeting if the opportunity arises.
Pattie
That sort of ultimatum from a girl friend would have only one response from me:
"See ya'!"
That would have made it pretty clear that we were not going to have a good relationship so why drag it out?
From a wife? That one is a lot tougher and not to be answered with a flippant reply. I don't know what I'd do if my wife demanded that of me.
I'm responding to Marcie here, but it's really to everyone who might be interested.
You say CDing is a choice. Others here say it's not a choice. Here's the problem... None of us, whether we think it's a choice or not, has any research to back it up.
Transgender issues are almost like the third rail of psychology. There's precious little research being done in this area of humanity. The realit is, there is a HUGE area of research that is essentially untouched ground. There's a few studies here and there, but it's grains of sand vs. what should be a beach. Without the beach, nobody can scientifically say it's a choice or not.
Compare for a moment to research into homosexuality. Increasing evidence strongly points to homosexuality not being a choice. Yet, research in that arena is only just beginning as well. There's just no research into crossdressing at this point to support either position.
For my part, I strongly believe it is not a choice. My unscientific reasons for believing this:
* The vast majority of cross dressers have memories of the desire for or actions in cross dressing at an early age.
* I've yet to hear of any CDer who successfully repressed their desire to crossdress on a permanent basis. Over and over again we hear of CDers who purge, only to come back and crossdress again.
* I have heard of zillions of CDers whose lives were horribly affected due to crossdressing.
* One small study of brain structures in transexual people noted the structures of their brains did not match the gender of their outward appearance, but that of the opposite gender.
Well, I guess that all we can conclude is that we are all different.
In my case, I think that I could quit, but it's not going to be easy. I just hate to have so much self compassion and just quit and enforce the idea that I just can't fight it. Great people through history has had bigger and more difficult battles than this. I can't be such a looser...
However, I have my own strategy: I don't dress that much. I purge too often as to keep a nice collection of feminine clothes, and I hate mediocre results.
The way I almost get over it was a very unusual one: I went to a transformation service. It was my first and only time when somebody else besides me would have ever seen me dressed.
The makeup was great, but still I could see the manly me behind the make up. It was a big turn-off.
The other thing that really helped was that I had a very high fever at the moment, so the experience was not very enjoyable.
The urge went away for very long, until I decided something else: I shaved my body.
I tried to fool myself pretending that it was just a metrosexual impulse to follow fashion, but the first thing I did when I shaved my chest and legs was to create cleavage and put a skirt on... Impossible to describe...
Despite being all shaved, my legs didn't look that feminine. In my illusion, I thought that I would have great girl legs if I shaved. Well, that's what my wife said when she saw them, and they are not that bad to be honest, but wouldn't hold a second view. They are thin, yet muscular and defined. When I was younger I was self conscious about my legs because I thought they were feminine. Well, maybe they were some years ago and I lost the bus...
Again, it was a big turn off to still see the masculine me. But then, I decided that I was going to put the best of my efforts. I'm waiting breast forms a Veronica 2 over the mail. I will go again to transformation service. I will buy the clothes I have ever dream about and that I have researched in forums and hundreds of pictures that would look great on me.
If I don't convince myself with the image, I guess that it will be over. I will figure that my illusions and dreams are not real. And that I will never really be a beautiful woman.
But what if I do convince me, and decide to go to a mall or to the movies?. Who knows...
Ok, couple points here. First off, it sounds like you're in denial more than you are actually quitting or even trying to quit. You have gotten past the point where you acknowledge that you want to be more feminine, which is good, keep running with that. But my advice? Try not purging your collection next time. Stash it in the attic. Literally mothball it. I assure you that once you know that you don't need to keep spending money every time, you'll be more and more likely to want to try it again and get into the swing of it.
Second, you're not a loser because you can't "kick" this. In fact, hate to say it, but it is only gonna become stronger the more time passes. This is why I say don't pitch your stuff when you get sick of trying for a while.
Don't worry about your masculinity showing through your makeup and clothing. Little bits at a time and tips, tricks, and practice will help you disguise much of that. For example, with the help of my gf with some makeup and guidance, I feminized my face for the first time the other day. It wasn't total, I really need some bronzer to help soften my face. I have a fairly long and angular face, but between the various forms of makeup, I drew even my own eyes away from the hard angles and hid them, and really had a more feminine face. I wish I had an objective opinion about how it looked, but I'm not ready to show my face to many people yet.
Its funny that this post came out, I was thinking of writing it myself. It got me thinking about what people have written about not telling your wife or SO if you were a cd. How so many thought it was wrong. Well Im going to take the unpopular stance as well. Crossdressing is a choice. I chose when I get dressed, nobody forces me to do it. Like many others I have been dressing at least partially since i was at least 8 or 9, and had thoughts as long as I can remember back to 5 years old or so. Ive tried to stop at times and it is damn tuff. Its very seldom far from my mind- so I do understand. It cost me my first marriage- my wife found out and couldnt deal with it. She thought I was gay, or may want a sex change soner or latter. She also thought I could never given it up. The funny thing was I would have given up or as told her tried my darndest for her. Why because my marriage vow was till death do us part. To me that was more important than my own personal needs. Sure I may have had emotional distress or not been fully who I am. But I did make that vow. Any type of behavior can be controlled It may be tuff but... Alcoholics stop drinking, people stop gambling... I am not sayin crossdressing is the same but I am saying people can stop things that are hard to do. Crossdressing is not a disease or an illness it is part of who I am but not the whole part. If my wife found out and told me I had to give it up would I. Well I would tell her I would try my utmost as hard as I ever did in my life-because she was what was important. If I can put my life aside and die for her then I can try to stop for her. But then who knows Im a hypocrite because I havent even told her... Gina
Again, we are unique. I can see many people answering transporting their own experiences on others.
I can't tell for sure that it's not a choice for somebody else. Maybe it's hardwired into their brain or whatever. But I just think that it's not my case.
Very well said Pattie I love what you have said, if you are a single CD in some cases you can just walk away, but if you are a married CD then it is a new ball game, and if you have kids too........then you have to work things out...... no CD wants to walk away from his family with out a fight.I think you have to accept who you are and then manage that as best as you can.In my situation even though I would love to be totally out it is just not possible unless I wanted to jeopardise my marriage and children.I just hope that as time moves on I can have more time to be"me" as my feminine self whether thats at home or at a meeting if the opportunity arises.
Pattie
If crossdressing is not a choice............then why is it so hard and painful and difficult to stop, many crossdressers have try to stop only to fail, and those who have stop for a few years have come back with a vengeance.
LA CINDY LOVE
Well lets see. 1 in 3 men and women cheat so it's far more 'normal' than the up to 10% who regularly crossdress. It's unethical when done without informing ones partner because its increased risk of STD transmission puts their life in increased danger. It can be dealt with thoroughly ethically though through open relationships, swinging, polyamory etc which when 1 in 3 husbands and wives wil cheat anyway is really something everyone needs to consider should be far more common in society.
As for sado-masochism you might find this interesting http://currentaffairs.ninemsn.com.au...spx?&id=620461 as it too is a common healthy part of many peoples lives. It can be unethical when done without informed consent but the strict use of safewords etc that many practitioners use means its often far more ethical than people having sex after a few glasses of wine which interferes with decision making and then is not truely free informed consent.
As for smoking, there is a distinct difference there. Nicotene functions as a neurotransmitter improving brain function temporarily. The body eventually stops bothering wasting energy on producing the neurotransmitter when nicotene is available. Hence a biochemical reliance on the intake of nicotene is the source of the addiction. So it is distinctly different from the others.
Something done for the self is not selfish. Just for the self. Perpetual selflessness goes beyond altruism to self destructiveness. To be selfish it must overide the rights or fair share of others.It's about "our" urge (or "my" urge). I'm not thinking in anybody else when I do that. It's selfish, because I care more about how much I like cross dressing than the consequences and the damage I could do in the people I love.
I like the cookie example.
If someone bakes a batch of cookies for themselves and they eat them all that is fair and good. If they bake the cookies for themselves and their flatmate eats them all that is selfish on the flatmates part. The person who bakes them for themselves is not obligated to share, but if they do choose to do so that is generous.
If the cookies are baked for everyone and someone eats a larger share that is selfish. If someone freely chooses to eat a smaller share so that others can eat more that is selfless and then someone benefiting from that is not being selfish.
So then, how is CDing selfish?
I think that is correct.Sure, I have the right to enjoy that. I could even be right if I say I deserve to enjoy it.
It's more than nice, some of what you list is fairI wish I had everything, cross dressing whenever I like, a wife proud of his cross dresser husband, and a society that would admire me for my efforts for passing as a real girl. Wouldn't it be nice?.
Some of it can be.By that's not reality.
Indeed. That was your free and fair consent. You also have a right to withdraw that consent at a moments notice, to renegotiate any agreement. So does your wife. It may not fit peoples view of promises but it is a vital fundamental human right.Reality is that I, using my free will, chose my wife and made a promise of being with her until the end of my days. Nobody forced me to.
It seems that there you made an error. You did not consider the possibility that you may not be able to stop in which case for her to give full free informed consent she should have been informed of the potential risk. Thats why even though I too thought I would stop I told my ex about a week into the relationship.And I decided, also using my free will, not to tell her because I honestly thought that I would stop.
You are assuming that is possible. But we do not know the causation of being a CD. Being a TS inolves Genes, Nuron count in the Lymbic Nucleus of the brain and other aspects from birth! Some eveidence suggests that CDs may merely have a milder version of the same condition! Or maybe not. The studies have not been done on CDs yet. But we know many similar neurological variations come in wide degrees of severity so mild-TS should probably exist and would likely result in CDing!I could be a bigger man and leave this lovely hobby in sacrifice for my loved ones.
If it's genetic and neurological than no, no-one does! And it's worth noting that TSs and I expect CDs too are dissproportionately represented amongst the military! So a great many TSs have risked and lost their lives in the defense of their nations, families etc.Many other bigger men make bigger sacrifices for their family or for their country. It's just a matter of personal decision.
Not all pain is bad pain. Healing injuries hurt, antiseptic stings. When racial desegregation ended plenty of white people suffered from having to share with black people. That was a good pain. Same with men having to suffer women in their workplace. And to make it more personal parents havign their sons and daughters dating or marrying outside their race/culture/religion!
Not all choices are ethical.That's another difficult one. But it's also a matter of choice.
Based on what assumptions?A loving CD would not force others to accept dressing, if it's difficult for their beliefs or for any other reason. This is also a two ways road.
Lets look at this real-life example of someone I have met. A husband and father had been adopted. He and his family had been somewhat anti-semitic. When he discovered he was really of Russian-Jewish ancestry everyone felt hurt about it. Could he, let alone should he, not force his family to accept that he, and his kids, were Jews? That his wife was married to a Jew?
Because if CDing is even remotely as biological in origin as TS is then that is worth contemplating.
If a son is Gay should they lie and hide that from their parents or is the obligation on the parents to cope with an uncomfortable reality?
Protecting people from pain that they need to go through in order to grow or heal is called in Bhuddism Idiot Compassion. Delaying neccessary pain which in fact will likely worsen the pain when it finally is felt. Whereas easing the neccessary pain and smoothing the process is more genuinely and intelligently compassionate according to bhuddism.
Remember, You're entitled to happiness too!!!!
Sure! But it would be sad that my happiness relies and depends only in cross dressing.[/QUOTE]
But doesn't your UNhappiness result from repressing your crossdressing?
I partially agree with what Marcie has posted. Cding is a choice. However, the urge, often the very powerful urge, to CD is not a choice. As others here have posted, I have received the ultimatum, and tried to stop for the sake of my marriage. Because of my continuing urges I sought counselling, not to stop CDing, but to deal with it in connection to my marriage. My therapist told me that for me to be truely happy about myself I would probably have to get a divorce. So here I sit, still married because I love my wife and am willing to be unhappy to stay in the marriage. How long will it be before the balance tips and I decide that she is being more selfish than I am in her demand that I not CD? I don't know, but I suspect it will eventually happen. So, one day I will be a happy CDer, but unhappily divorced, unless I can get her to accept, which I expect will make her unhappy too. Nothing worthwhile in life is easy......Stephanie
I'm in complete agreement with my Batty friend above - Crossdressing is typically not something you can suppress. If you just do it for kicks like for Rocky Horror, obviously, but if your SO can't understand doing that, then she should probably consider having that stick removed surgically from her ass. The Puritans largely died out for a good reason.Quote:
I could be a bigger man and leave this lovely hobby in sacrifice for my loved ones.
You are assuming that is possible. But we do not know the causation of being a CD. Being a TS inolves Genes, Nuron count in the Lymbic Nucleus of the brain and other aspects from birth! Some eveidence suggests that CDs may merely have a milder version of the same condition! Or maybe not. The studies have not been done on CDs yet. But we know many similar neurological variations come in wide degrees of severity so mild-TS should probably exist and would likely result in CDing!
If, on the other hand, you do it because of some urge, well, sorry, that's a life-long condition. I know, it sucks in some ways because of situations like this, but really, if someone can't accept every major aspect of you, are they worth that much angst? Even if you stay with them, just don't let it get to you.
Anyway, she's right - Could you give it up? I guess with the best of efforts and constant thought training, you could probably stop, but the desire would never go away.
Posting Permissions
