As i was saying.... that comes up here frequently.. exact same thing... A cder might think about being with another cder, but not a man in drab (man clothes) . I think it's fantasy, because they have to be smart enough to know that once the clothes come off... it's going to be not one but two nasty stinky men with deep voices.Originally Posted by socute
I hate to say it, but if you can't trust him to be honest (even if you have a good reason, which it seems you do!), I think your relationship is fundamentally broken. It's almost always salvageable, and sounds to me that in your case, it is, but it really requires immediate and full cooperation on both parties' behalf.
I know you are probably right that he would refuse counseling, but it may be time for that ultimatum, in this case. It seems to me that you've done everything as right as can be, and it's only fair at this juncture, when physical infidelity is a real possibility, may already even have happened, that you should be able to force him to go to counseling or leave him.
I have a limited perspective in this particular case, because I came into my realization of being a crossdresser (and more recently, probable transsexual) while involved with my current girlfriend, so she was kind of able to absorb this as I did, and we were able to kinda communicate where I was going with all this. It hasn't worked perfectly, but she gets enough information to let her know where I stand, and she is sort of OK with that.
Anyway, this may be bad advice, but from what I know of you and your situation, and literally being at the end of your rope, I think it's time to drag him (bound and gagged if needed), to your counselor. Let him speak, let it be a dialogue between them, and literally only speak when spoken to, so he doesn't feel ganged up on. It works, if you can at least get him that far.
If you are prepared to do so, if he just will not work with you on this, I think you should break up with him. It sucks, it's hard, but it's life. I think that this is only gonna get worse if it continues as is, and then it's gonna suck more. That is, at least, what I'd do.
Best of luck. If I can be of service, just PM or post back here.
"Thoughts are the shadows of feelings, always darker, emptier, and simpler. I don't care if they're fake or real, I just thank them for showing up at all. I have black periods. Who does not? But they are part of me; they are not a part of illness, but a part of my being. What am I saying? I have the courage to have them. Four o' clock in the morning. This sucks." - Alkaline Trio - Warbrain (First line courtesy of Nietzsche)
_____________________________________________
WARNING: Sarcasm, dry humor, witticisms, and a twisted sense of humor is likely to be present in this post. Please read accordingly. If you are uncertain of my intention, PM me before posting a hasty response that will only serve to embarrass you. If necessary, I will clarify the confusion.
[QUOTE=kathrynjanos;1669861]I hate to say it, but if you can't trust him to be honest (even if you have a good reason, which it seems you do!), I think your relationship is fundamentally broken. It's almost always salvageable, and sounds to me that in your case, it is, but it really requires immediate and full cooperation on both parties' behalf."
Would you also say that in regard to all of the cd'ers out there who are married or in relationships where they have kept and continue to keep their cd'ing a secret from their SO? .. That their relationships are fundamentally broken? Seems he's been pretty up front with his CD'ing as well as his on-line indescretions. As for the bi-sexual question.... it's pretty much up in the air.
At this point is seems more fantasy than fact.
My Ex was into all sorts of stuff and yeah he wanted me to have nothing to do with his CDing per see ............ I don't know enough about your personal situation to make any real assumptions, but what I can say, is ithere is enough similariites in you situation already in the OP here that I can say those are similar to the reasons my EX, is Now just that, my Ex ........ get you 10 posts in hun and come join us in the GG section ..... there are some wonderful ladies in there who very rarely post out in the main forum and they are full of great advice ....... plus we have cookies there
I suppose if you can get him to talk to you, you could ask, if he views Forced Feminization as part of an alternate life style (like CDing is viewed by some)
[SIZE="6"]or[/SIZE]
if he views Forced Feminization as a sexual practice
Last edited by Sheila; 04-02-2009 at 03:16 AM.
I allow myself to set healthy boundaries ..... to say no to what does not align with my values, to say yes to what does.
Boundaries assist me to remain healthy, honest and living a life that is true to me
Well, i'm not really a CD-but i'll answer anyway.
Maybe there is more to his CD'ing then he is aware of him self. Obviously many emotions involved.
I think if you want to solve this riddle. You might have to go back in time and find out were the pantihose rippled, so to speak, and mend it from there. What I am trying to say is that you might have hurt him emotionally at some point, probably when you found out. There is a big chance that you didnt find out, but he let you find out. As he didnt want to push it on you. And your reactions at that point might have been critical regarding the trust issue. So he feels you dont see him for who he is.
I don't think you are to blame. But I think you have the key. And maybe it is a mistake if you focus on the clothes. Might even be irrelevant. But instead focus on emotions. So instead of going from the concrete to the abstract- do it the other way around.
The cybersex thingy is weird. Anyway, If trust can be restored, then this aspect should solve itself.
Best of luck,
twisted-sis
I think Kellycan may have nailed it for the most part that he's embarrassed perhaps to open up to you about his fantasies. Even with 6 years together under your belt together, he may just think you would never understand it and think he's weird or whatever his fear is.
Like Bill Maher the commedian said in an act I saw recently, "most mens fantasies are womens worst nightmares"......so much truth to that in general terms, not saying it applies here though.
I don't think he's going to open up to you, I'm thinking from what I've read that he just can't bring himself to, but he can with a stranger anonomously on the internet. If thats as far as he goes with it fine, on the net it seems he can be himself without worry of condemnation from anyone and act out his fantasies. If he is bi-curious, well all I can say is the net may not satisfy that need he may feel, and he very well could act on it, (if) he is.
Its also possible he's just exploring a side of him re: bi-curiousity and thats all it is, and he's satisfied with that just chatting with others about it.
I think talking to a councelor is a good idea if you do, but make your own decisions, some aren't all that good in their practice. Good luck and welcome to the forum
I'd also take Shiela's suggestion and join them in the section she mentioned.
How do I get to that forum, and what is a GG?My Ex was into all sorts of stuff and yeah he wanted me to have nothing to do with his CDing per see ............ I don't know enough about your personal situation to make any real assumptions, but what I can say, is ithere is enough similariites in you situation already in the OP here that I can say those are similar to the reasons my EX, is Now just that, my Ex ........ get you 10 posts in hun and come join us in the GG section ..... there are some wonderful ladies in there who very rarely post out in the main forum and they are full of great advice ....... plus we have cookies there
I suppose if you can get him to talk to you, you could ask, if he views Forced Feminization as part of an alternate life style (like CDing is viewed by some)
[SIZE="6"]or[/SIZE]
if he views Forced Feminization as a sexual practice
He hasn't been that upfront. I found out about both by accident. Every time I try to talk to him, he shuts me down. He told me to stop trying to understand, and that I won't ever understand.
Forgot to add that he says I am taking something very little and blowing it out of proportion. I don't see it that way at all! This is really affecting me.
This is how he explained it to me: He compared it to an average guy seeing a woman and wondering what it would be like to be with her. Of course the guy wouldn't, because it would be wrong if he's in a committed relationship. Therefore, it's a fantasy that won't happen in real life.
Then why all the secrecy? Why can't we talk about it? How do I know that internet porn and chatting will be enough? I am scared to death he is going to meet someone in person and have sex with them. I can't handle that.
Every time I bring it up, we end up fighting. He is almost ready to call it quits, so I have to pretend it isn't a problem or even bring it up to avoid arguing. I can't live like this anymore, but I don't want to leave him. I love this person, and I thought we were going to get married one day. I feel like my heart is literally breaking. I started counseling, but he won't go. I guess he doesn't love me enough.
He told me if we break up, he is going to date other girls, definitely not a guy. Then he told me that he would have screw another girl just to prove to me that he isn't gay. *rolls eyes*
What's weird is that he said he put bi-curious in the personal ads because it would get more people to talk to him, since most men that are like him are gay. So, why did he tell me last weekend that most men want a woman to dominate them? He is contradicting himself.
Last edited by Sandra; 04-02-2009 at 08:17 AM. Reason: merged consecutive posts please use the multi quote function. Multi posting is against the forum rules
You asked for honest opinions, so here's mine.
Seems to me he's already rejected you and has decided to take another road.
Dump him and move on.
He is obviously in conflict with his own feelings about this. He needs to talk to someone. If he really cares for you, he will find out the truth. He owes you that much.
Second star to the right and straight on till morning
"Every time I bring it up, we end up fighting. He is almost ready to call it quits, so I have to pretend it isn't a problem or even bring it up to avoid arguing. I can't live like this anymore, but I don't want to leave him. I love this person, and I thought we were going to get married one day. I feel like my heart is literally breaking. I started counseling, but he won't go. I guess he doesn't love me enough.
He told me if we break up, he is going to date other girls, definitely not a guy. Then he told me that he would have screw another girl just to prove to me that he isn't gay. *rolls eyes*"
He's being very defensive, getting angry with you over it. Anger is often a cover, a way of trying to distract from the subject. Whether or not he meets up with someone, a CD doesn't place ads about being bi-curious to meet other CD's to just talk with. By refusing to communicate with you over this intimate part of his life, he's essentially saying you're not that important. Lasting relationships don't involve shutting a partner out of discussing such things.
[SIZE="3"]Gender is a state of mind[/SIZE]
LGBTQ PRIDE
As of Oct. 5th, go here to see my pics:http://www.flickr.com/people/fab_karen/
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proud of my President
I'm with Shari on this one.
With all the lies and hiding and adamant defensiveness, this guy is more work than he's worth.
He obviously doesn't love himself, and isn't even trying...so how can he ever really love you. You may just be his 'cover', so he can look more 'normal' to others and to himself.
Six years of prevarication and rejection? That's not a relationship, hunny! That's a sentence! You've served your time...
Sorry!
Still, as you my have learned from all the advice and counsel that we're trying here, the vast majority of us are nowhere near like this.
Stay involved with us, dear one...
At least we can offer our
respect & love.
deja
(a GG is a Genetic Girl. That's you! The F.A.B. (Female At Birth) private forum can be found in the menu on the opening page. Go there!)
Lots of different facets to CDing---for some its a fetish sexual turn on---particularly related to B/D S/M kinds of sexual play(for instance "forced feminization") once the sexual release is attained, the clothes and makeup come off and every thing is as it was. For others its a feeling like they really want to be more feminine and may be a prelude, but certainly not always, to a transition to living en femme full time or in a relativly few cases involving transexuals, actually going through hormone treatment and gender reassignment surgery--- and for most of us, the reality is somewhere in between the two poles.
Where your BF is cannot be said without further information---but the fact that he wants to experiment with Forced Feminization leads me to think that s/he may be more of a fetishistic type cd---which would be better for you I think if you can handle it yourself---Would you be interested in playing the top to his/her feminine bottom--in other words take charge and make him/her dress en femme, put on his/her makeup and wig and then order him about the house(a hint if into maid service you will never have to do anyhouse work again)
My advice would be to sit down and talk with him and even suggest you would like to do a forced femme scene with him(assuming you are interested in that type of thing or at least willing to try it) If he says yes enthusiastically then you might have the start of a beautiful relationship---if he rejects this then probably something else is going on and you might want to consider whether or not you want to stay with him. If you would like some suggestions on the forced femme feel free to contact me privately What ever happens, good luck.
[SIZE="4"][/SIZE]
To find out about the FAB forum read the link in my signature FAB forum access, and please read the rules for how to join.
You are a GGborn a female. GG= Gentic girl
Sandra
Administrator
I always used to rib you about your legs can't anymore. R.I.P Sexy Legs
R.I.P Rianna
There are all types of CDers - your boyfriend appears to have sexual
fantasies that extend way beyond mere CDing - I would be tickled to death
to have you as my SO - you seem to be understanding and supportive of
more traditional "normal" ??? CDers - your SO is missing a good thing by not
confiding in you and sharing with you - my guess is that he feels guilty and
embarrassed to discuss his more bizare sexual fantasies.
JoAnne Wheeler
"I'm an all American Bluegrass Girl and Proud As I Can Be"
While agree with most of the posts here concerning guilt and fantasies and acess to this forum, I would have to emphasize Marla's observation. In my view, there is no excuse in a 6 year relationship with a supportive wife to be so secretive. There is something wrong here. Socute, some counseling may be in order here. He needs to come clean with you or you need to dump him.
You poor lady. Crying yourself to sleep and this guy seems oblivious.
There are a ton of great crossdressers out there wishing they had someone like you.
Love,
Michelia
"Genius is the recovery of childhood at will." Rimbaud
That's a wonderful idea! It will help you do determine appropriate boundaries for yourself and it will help you to communicate them clearly to your SO.
Your bf needs to understand that your feelings are valid. As a woman in love, you do not separate emotional attachment from the physical act of sex. So to you, it feels as if he is cheating and each time he engages in this, you feel betrayed. If he understands this and he still justifies seeking online thrills, then I would ask myself what his priorities are and if this is the person I want to be in a relationship with. Of course I do not know him, but judging by what you wrote, he may need the time to grow in maturity and he doesn't sound as if he is "into you" very much.
Oh, and in my view, cyber or any other form of sex that is not strictly 'physical' between two people can still be a betrayal to the relationship if it takes significant time and energy away from it. Sex is rooted in the mind.
I agree with the others that it would be good for him to join this forum and hopefully accept the CDing better and take it beyond the sexual.
And last, do apply to join the FAB (Female At Birth) forum. A GG is a genetic girl. We support each other a great deal in FAB! There is a link below my signature.
Reine
I AM all about fantasies, and sex!
And for that reason alone, I feel I CAN'T share with anyone that I dress up like a female!
Early on, as I began CDing, I had fantasies of becoming a woman, having breasts, being with a man, and forced fem, of course! All those thots turned me on! For awhile, anyway. Like most fantasies, I knew I would not act on them, and in time, they passed.
The one fantasy I've held onto, is the one I've actually LIVED! Looking like an attractive woman! It still turns me on, because it's sort of a fantasy that's become real to me! Because it's the woman in the mirror that turns me on, I have no desire, or need, to share her with anyone. Unlike your boyfriend, it seems.
I have many other sexual fantasies, which r just that! Thots that turn me on, but ones I would never act on, and would never WANT TO EXPERIENCE in real life.
It sounds like your BF wants to make his fantasies become reality. Then, they will either turn him on, and he will continue them.Or, real life won't match his fantasies, and he'll give that one/those up!
Either eway, it DOESN'T sound good for u two, as a couple! Sorry!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
I feel so bad for you socute, It sounds like a very lonely relationship for you, if you can even call it that, it seems like it's more about what he wants, and your just there for his convenience, and this may seem harsh and quick to judge on my part, but I personally think you should just do yourself a favour and give your boyfriend the boot in order to keep your sanity if he cant come clean to you, I dont care how embarrassed he may feel, you deserve and have every right to be included since you have made it very clear to him that you would be supportive, which leads me to think he has other things lurking in his mind, and cant be trusted..It's possible he may have been faithful up to this point, but what about the near future?? if he's in some kind of figuring out what he is or wants mode.. does he really expect you to just sit on the sidelines waiting for him to figure all this out, he sounds more like a boy, not a man (Dido)That's what I don't get. He keeps saying he'll never find a woman to fulfill his fantasies, and I'm right here! He just doesn't want me involved. It really hurts. He says he has to accept that it is just a fantasy and will never happen. I'm so depressed.
There are many CD'ers here that can only dream of having such an supportive SO as you, and would love to include them in their CDing and fantasies but are afraid of losing them because their SO's aren't supportive or will freak out about it, but you have shown nothing but openness and honesty in this relationship, and it seems he has shown very little, so I think it's time for him to either screw his head on straight and see the wonderful woman you are standing right in front of him, or just hit the door.
In all fairness, I haven't hear his side of the story, but I have no reason to disbelieve what your saying, because you seem very honest and straightforward and think that there are many here that would be happy to do right by you..
Good luck, and hope you find true love & happiness in your heart.
[SIZE=3]Karen[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]I really do have the...Right To Be Wrong.. [/SIZE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkSTG...eature=channel [SIZE=2]and my mistakes will make me strong![/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Just call out my name...and I'll come running...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SxTo...eature=related just lovin classic JT again...[/SIZE]
There are lots of CDs who will not, or can not, share this part of themselves with anyone else in real life. Not even with an accepting SO. Some find the idea so unappealing, they would actually rather be separated/divorced.
Some SO's realize this, and give their CDing SO the space they need to dress when they need it. Some try to think of it as a hobby they won't be sharing.
As for fantasies:
There are guys who like femdom, who are CDs and into feminization.
There are guys who like femdom, who are not CDs and not into feminization.
There are guys who like femdom, who are not CDs and find feminization to be humiliating. The humiliation turns them on.
There are guys who like humiliation and are turned on by it, but would not stand for being feminized.
There are guys who like humiliation and are turned on by being forced into a bi experience. Some are into cuckolding.
And there are lots and lots of other fantasies. Some live the life, some live thru the fantasy.
There are a lot of various forums with hundreds of members who share common fantasies online. Very few actually bring the fantasies into real life. Although some do. Whether your guy is all online talk or not cannot be judged by what you've said.
Let's assume it is all fantasy. Can you live with that?
If the fantasies are not hurting your sexual relations, there's no real harm.
Except for trust issues.
This may be what you both have to work towards achieving. Trust.
He needs to trust you enough to tell you all his fantasies. You need to trust him enough to accept that that is all they are, fantasies.
His online activity, without cluing you in has led to the mistrust you have in him. Why he cannot trust you enough to be more honest with his fantasies and online activity, I couldn't say. But he does need to open up and tell you his issues with trusting you and cluing you in on what he's up to. If he can't do that, then there will never be trust, and the relationship is bound to fail.
Since it appears the relationship is heading towards failure the way things now stand, and if he won't open up and talk without getting angry, it may be time to take things into your own hands.
You say you love him and want things to work out. Then tough love may be required.
Tell him you've left pictures of him dressed up, copies of his online activities, and addresses of family, co-workers and friends, in a sealed non-existent envelope with an unnamed friend. Tell him you love him, but that they were instructed to open the envelope over the weekend, if he refuses to go to counseling with you. To work on trust issues, not fantasy or CDing issues.
Of course, forcing someone to do what they don't want to do is the very last thing you'd want to do. If your going to counseling doesn't help, and if he refuses to go, then forcing him to go may well be the very last chance of saving the relationship.
The question is, can you live with his fantasies and online activities if he is totally honest with you about them?
If not, then do you have it in you to indulge in fantasy talk in the bedroom? There are lots of forced fem stories online that can be brought up in bedroom play. And will he be able to replace his online fantasy playing with this type of bedroom play?
If not, then do you have it in you to be dominant enough to actually force fem him? Make him your maid for a weekend? Using that same non-existent envelope of information your unnamed friend has.
DonnaT
I Totally Disagree with that, There is NO WAY I would ever recommend doing such a thing to someone or anyone doing that to me..
That's just going to make things Much worse and could even resort to a violent act towards her..people can do the strangest things when backed into a corner with no way out..
If that's what it took in order to go to counseling, then that relationship is WAY past saving.!!!!
Were not talking about saving a 40 year marriage or lifelong relationship here, there not even married, so why not just cut her losses now before it goes any further?? because when you have these kind of problems before you have even said the I Do's., I sure cant imagine it getting any better after..just much worse..
I see no sense trying to feed a dead horse..just bury it, move on & get a new horse..
[SIZE=3]Karen[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]I really do have the...Right To Be Wrong.. [/SIZE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkSTG...eature=channel [SIZE=2]and my mistakes will make me strong![/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Just call out my name...and I'll come running...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SxTo...eature=related just lovin classic JT again...[/SIZE]
Hello Socute!
Welcome to the forum! Thanks for coming here and please help us understand what our female mates think and feel about our dressing. I really appreciate it when real girls answer or posts and give us advice and another way of thinking. As to your man, it appears to me that he is both embarrassed by his dressing and wants to have a man involved sexually while he dresses. I do not think that it is just dressing that he wants to do. Going online and asking for a man to be with him is not just the usual urges to most CD'ers here. It is more then an urge to dress and wear clothes.
Charlie
SoCute you have my empathy. It seems that in the machine that is this world the CD gear cogs just never mesh correctly. Somehow we are always one tooth off.
There are days we hate ourselves for who we are and what we do. The majority of us take a deep breath and muddle through. Your husband has decided he wants to make this hate deeper and lower. It is so nice to hear that a woman is willing to help her CD person come to grips with this. You understand that it isn't wrong but he has not learned that yet. If he wants to learn we can help. As you know we will also help you to help him. From your side of the story it sounds like you love him very much and are willing to try and work this out. He needs to find if he as as much love for you. I don't think he is in that place right now because he doesn't even love himself. If he can't come to grips with his demons you can't help no matter how hard you try. The one thing I don't want you to do is drag yourself down with him. It is a deep rut and you can't see over the edges. Don't beat yourself up over this. The GG's here are willing to help you fight through this. They will be non-judgmental and can give you a perspective so that you know you are not alone in this.
The sexual fantasy is a hard nut to crack. He sees you as more pure than the domme in his mind. You are the light and hope at the end of his dark tunnel. His Domme (or Dom as he may want since he wants a male to force him) is evil and wicked. A person who represents all the bad he thinks he is. This person does not exist. If he followed his fantasies he would either freak out and run or he would be so disappointed that he would have to find another fantasy. But he wants it detached from his "real" life. He wants you as his Madonna, you will be his rock and harbor in the end. What we need to do is help you find a way to guide him to this harbor before severe damage is done. If we can help, please get him into this forum. If not then he really needs to talk to someone who can help him find his way out.
This is not you. You are doing the right thing by asking for help. I know that everyone one this forum who can help would be willing to give you the best advice they can. We may not be always right but we can give you paths to follow.
I wish you good luck.
Lori
(P.S. there are hundreds of sisters on here who would love to have you as their SO, you are one in a million)
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
he needs to be totally up front with you and let you know how he feels about everything. I really wish i had been that way all along with my wife, I owed that much to her and if he really is worth the effort than he needs to meet you at least in the middle. No matter what his reasons are for not letting you in he must let you in if he wants to keep the relationship going. it sounds like all the effort has been on your part thus far, thats just wrong and you deserve so much more. Good luck with the boyfriend, show him this forum and see what he thinks, he sounds very mixed up and probably could use much more help than you need.
He is definitely into BDSM, and has told me that he has lots of different fetishes because "so many things turn him on."
I think you might be getting closer to the root of the problem with that comment. It is a possibility that his BDSM fantasies are so "non-vanilla" that he cannot even imagine discussing them with you because of a level of guilt, shame, embarrassment, etc. about those fantasies which eclipses anything associated with CD'ing. And he might want to live out some of those "unmentionable fantasies", and feels he can not communicate those needs/desires to you as an active partner.
Julie
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