CDing... genes, lifestyle choice, obsession, addiction, or other?

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

Have read all your posts I wonder if its just different for all of us for some there maybe a more obsessive side or even an addictive side for others its just a natural phenonema(is that how you spell it!)

ANYTHING can become an addiction. I think that depends a lot on a person's personality and if they're prone to obsessive behavior.

I'm sure that for some people, cding is an addiction and/or obsessive behavior. For me, it is simply who I am though. Like I said - I'm only addicted to being me. I'm quite certain it is unhealthy for one to choose NOT to be who they are.

I believe that most cd's are not of the addictive personality type, just like most non-cd's are not of the addictive personality type. There is much diversity among people and that is also true within the cd community.

[battybattybats]

Science has shown already brain-structure and activity differences in TSs and Gays and Lesbians.

I'm sure that when the same kinds of studies are done on us the same will be true and one or more neurological acuses with genetic predispositions will be uncovered.

[RobynP]

I am not sure an addiction necessarily has to kill the one addicted. Alcoholic burly men might beat up their wives and kill their families, but the men may not die due to alcoholism itself. Even if the situation does not get that bad, alcoholism affects families and cause divorces and bad situations for the kids.

Excellent point! I am talking about the medical or clinical diagnosis of addiction. Certainly, there may be people who occasionally drink a whole lot and beat up people but may not be clinically considered to be an alcoholic...

To your point, excessive anything whether it is drinking, drugs, gambling, shopping, eating, work, etc. causes divorces and family breakups. It does not have to be an addiction...

The point I am trying to make is that clinical addiction is a specific diagnosis and I don't think that anyone has ever been diagnosed with an addiction to crossdressing. However, some crossdressing behaviors may be very addiction-like.

I wish I could find some research study in which they tried to treat cross dressing using drugs similar to those used for OCD.

The drugs for OCD treat serotonin levels. They treat obsession.

There one anecdotal report of a crossdresser treated with a specific OCD drug and was "cured". I can dig up the info if you'd like. However, this is only one person out of many, many crossdressers. For this one person, crossdressing may have been only an obsession. Also, there is no information about any possible relapse...

I do not think there will ever be any clinical studies performed with crossdressers and OCD drugs. Crossdressing and GID are not high profile enough to warrant research. For the most part, crossdressers are pretty well adjusted and don't want any OCD drugs. Those that have trouble coping (i.e. relationship issues) are often successfully treated in therapy.

Is an obsession the same as an addiction?

Medically or clinically... No...

Whatever other thing is making us addicted, dopamine or adrenalin or whatever else, does that make us addicted to cross dressing and transitioning too?

One of the things not often discussed is "co-morbidity". This is when there is one issue masks or hides another issue. For example, someone may suffer from depression but crossdressing makes them feel better even though it causes relationship issues... It would seem to make sense to treat the crossdressing to "fix" the relationship issues. But it should be the depression that is treated, not the crossdressing... This sounds complex, and it is. That is why a) there are psychologists and psychiatrists and b) anyone in therapy needs to disclose everything in order to be properly treated...

Also, there are people who may have "addictive personalities"; that is, they can become easily addicted to something. They have to be hyper-aware of what they are doing so they do not become addicted.

Robyn

[Sophie A Walker]

My short answer to the original post is .... Yes.

Or put another way, all of the above.

There are lots of different pathways that end with CDing (and a lot of other gender crossing patterns)

I would encourage a little more scepticism about psychologists and particularly psychiatrists. Even if they have experience with gender issues, there are good and bad in every field. IMO psychiatrists are often a little too willing to treat things with drugs, which are only ever a temporary solution to any psycho-social difficulty. (Just check out chemotherapy vs talk therapy) OCD is much more amenable to cognitive behaviour therapy, and you dont have to keep track of your medication for the rest of your life.

Some psychologists stick to one theoretical framework and try to fit clients into that. (e.g the somewhat narrow and limited Blanchard model) Granted the co-morbidity theme might mean that there is an underlying issue to be treated such as an addictive personality, but this is most likely to be overlooked if the CDing or other gender crossing behaviour is identified as an illness in and of itself.

Both Psychologists and Psychiatrists all too often see gender crossing issues as an illness, personally I think this is wrong. The tension between gender crossing behaviour and social expectations of gender normative behaviour can lead to distress, depression, anxiety disorders and other health issues, but these should be addressed in the first instance. IMO Gender crossing behaviour is not in and of itself an illness, just a mode of expression, treating it as an illness will only create the same kind of problems defining homosexuality as an illness created.

IMO It is also inevitable that gender dysphoria and most other gender focused 'mental illnesses' will be removed from the DSM manual at some point, if not the next version then a subsequent version. Once this happens mental health professionaly will be better placed to focus on the anxiety, depression and other issues provoked by social expectations driven by stereotyping and prejudice which might then also be addressed by appropriate anti-opressive legislation.

The medicalisation of gender crossing behaviour is not helped by the need for medical intervention to help TS people, changing the body requires a doctor, doctors (in theory at least) only intervene to 'cure' therefore transexuality must be an illness, and by association other gender crossing behaviour is also an illness.

Philosophically the I believe that it is the distress about the discrepancy between the physical gender and the emotional psychological gender experienced by TS's that is the illness not the discrepancy itself. The cure for the distress might be to removue the discrepancy, but this doesn't make the discrepancy an illness in itself. Just as Rinoplasty (Nose Job) is an acceptable cure for distress over having an odd shaped nose. The odd shaped nose isn't an illness but the distress over it can be seen as such.

Sorry this seems a bit of a rant in retrospect, but I know that there are mental health professionals out there that are able and willing to help people come to terms with who they are rather than persuade them to become someone they are not, unfortunately there are plenty of the other kind too, and I just think people should be wary of them.

[curse within]

Sophie,

I couldn't agree with you more ...Not to take this to far out of context I would like to also touch on the level one has in Gender crossing.

It has became or becoming somewhat of a disbelief that all Gender crossing people should live an exposed lifestyle. I have to disagree with this belief useing an old saying " wishy washy".. I'll explain, some Gender crossers feel comfort in dressing daily as others, only so often or rarley..

IMO, this is poor advise to suggest or look down upon people who choose to remain in the closet.. This can backfire to those who take that leap just as some who have went through sexual reasignment and later regreted it. IE the cat is out and speaking for myself I rarley have girly needs or want to emulate one.

It can also explain why some ( besides Genes ) Gender Crossers look more fem ( because they where more open to their fem side growing up) rather those who rarley or grew slowly to adapting Gender crossing and appear more masculin.

[battybattybats]

For the most part, crossdressers are pretty well adjusted and don't want any OCD drugs. Those that have trouble coping (i.e. relationship issues) are often successfully treated in therapy.

Just as was pointed out in the 70's regarding homosexuality the cause of the problems of gays and lesbians was merely societies bias and discrimination against them and were not caused by being homosexual. The same is true for us.

One of the things not often discussed is "co-morbidity". This is when there is one issue masks or hides another issue. For example, someone may suffer from depression but crossdressing makes them feel better even though it causes relationship issues... It would seem to make sense to treat the crossdressing to "fix" the relationship issues. But it should be the depression that is treated, not the crossdressing... This sounds complex, and it is. That is why a) there are psychologists and psychiatrists and b) anyone in therapy needs to disclose everything in order to be properly treated...

The psychology program on Australian Radio National All In The Mind refferred to such as 'Deferrment Activities' when they were talking about the ideas of 'sex addiction', 'Net Addiction' 'Video Game Addiction' and 'food addiction', criticising the movement to have those recognised as illnesses in their own right and merely considering them symptoms of other causes like deression, social anxiety and the like and encouraging the treatment of the cause not the symptom.

It has became or becoming somewhat of a disbelief that all Gender crossing people should live an exposed lifestyle. I have to disagree with this belief useing an old saying " wishy washy".. I'll explain, some Gender crossers feel comfort in dressing daily as others, only so often or rarley..

IMO, this is poor advise to suggest or look down upon people who choose to remain in the closet.. This can backfire to those who take that leap just as some who have went through sexual reasignment and later regreted it. IE the cat is out and speaking for myself I rarley have girly needs or want to emulate one.

Indeed. Being out is not for every CD. However I do think that every single CD has an obligation to undoing transphobia and supporting TG civil rights. This can be done within the closet. A closeted CD can be the kind of man who publicly stands up for TG people, is an ally and friend to TG people etc.

And in fact I think closetted CDs have a far greater responisbility than out ones to do so. But sure, not everyone needs to be out.

[Sophie A Walker]

Sophie,

I couldn't agree with you more ...Not to take this to far out of context I would like to also touch on the level one has in Gender crossing.

It has became or becoming somewhat of a disbelief that all Gender crossing people should live an exposed lifestyle. I have to disagree with this belief useing an old saying " wishy washy".. I'll explain, some Gender crossers feel comfort in dressing daily as others, only so often or rarley..

IMO, this is poor advise to suggest or look down upon people who choose to remain in the closet.. This can backfire to those who take that leap just as some who have went through sexual reasignment and later regreted it. IE the cat is out and speaking for myself I rarley have girly needs or want to emulate one.

It can also explain why some ( besides Genes ) Gender Crossers look more fem ( because they where more open to their fem side growing up) rather those who rarley or grew slowly to adapting Gender crossing and appear more masculin.

If someone is happy 'in the closet', then that is absolutely fine, there might be an issue if it requires them to lie regularly to someone close to them, but I don't really think that it is someone else's job to judge them for remaining hidden anymore than I think that anyone has the right to judge someone according to other 'social expecatations' except those concerned with the reasonable things almost everyone subscribes to. e.g. dont harm others, don't steal ect...

[Celeste]

I feel one can have control over their compulsions and use them in a productive way.Its when they hurt others around us or ourselves that creates the problems.I don't believe all obsessions are necessarily counter productive.Just think,is your obsession problematic or spiritually enlightening?

[Miranda09]

If it's pleasurable to you, what does it matter. I know that I usually cant wait to get home to dress up, whether simply or full out. It's the most fun I've had in a long time and I dont want it stop. Hell, sex is addicting..isn't it?? And there's nothing wrong with that.

[Ruth]

What we are doing doesn't take place in a psychology lab, it takes place in society. And the way we express our gender is very precisely conditioned by society's norms, so when we step outside them, our behavior becomes the subject of accusatory descriptions like 'addictive' and 'obsessive'.
As an earlier poster pointed out, nobody calls a man obsessive if he continually goes out wearing men's clothes.
I personally enjoy CDing and I do it a lot, but if I'm prevented by circumstances I don't get ill, like an addict on 'cold turkey'.
Also I wouldn't call my feminine expression obsessive, because I dress pretty much like an average woman, and they don't get labelled obsessive if they wear pretty underclothes and take a bit of care with hair and make-up.
As for genes versus upbringing or whatever else, I don't know how I got here but I just consider myself to be a transgender person who expresses both genders in his/her appearance.
Unfortunately, because it strays outside society's norms, my behavior is likely to attract pathological labels.

[curse within]

I would think that wearing clothing isn't normal Human behaviour, it has become an addiction its's self do to soceity. Clothings main purpose is protection ,as I have suggested in past Threads is't not the clothing it's the urge to emulate or feel Fem just as you place the make-up on and other goodies in the process ..That's not addiction ..

[RobynP]

Just because nobody has diagnosed any CD/TS as an addict, it does not necessarily imply that the person is not an addict.

I think there have been hundreds, if not thousands, of crossdressers sometimes with their spouses who have gone into therapy due to relationship issues. I don't know if anyone, myself included, has ever been diagnosed as an "addict".

Crossdressing has been studied by a number of psychologists such as Dr. Richard Doctor, Dr. Roger Peo, Drs. Vern and Bonnie Bullough. I don't recall the term "addiction" used in any of their published works.

My point is how do I (or any trans person) know for sure that
1. I am not just "curious about the opposite sex's life" and
2. "focused and experimented a bit too much to get addicted" and
3. then "took the addiction a bit too far by wanting to do this full time" and
4. "invented the rationale inside my own head to prove that I actually have a neurological condition related to the hypothesis of transgender'ism"?

I keep wondering if I took a curiosity, attraction, hobby, self-indulgence, compulsion and finally addiction to a new level by deciding that I am transsexual. I am not entirely sure.

This is where a really good, competent therapist can be of assistance to you in your voyage of self-discovery and increasing self-awareness. It does not necessarily have to be a "gender" specialist, but they should be familiar with the area.

I felt odd being treated as a boy since I was 3-4 years old and I did not feel like I fit into the male world ever. I also disliked my own secondary sex characteristics as male. I used to wish as a young boy that I should wake up as a girl. I have felt more comfortable with my life on the female side of the world. However, I do not have any hatred towards my male stuff down there (except for the inconvenience it causes with some kinds of clothes). Perhaps as a little child, I was just curious and jealous of the things that girls my age were getting, and perhaps I merely conjured up the rest of the stuff from there as a chain of reasoning to justify my initial curiosity.

Your story is very similar to my story and many others. The one thing I keep remembering is that there are many other men who grew up being uncomfortable in the male role but did not become CD, TG, TS, or gay. For some reason, I took a turn in the road they didn't take...

I tend to agree with Sophie's point - "Some psychologists stick to one theoretical framework and try to fit clients into that."

I have observed that they attempt to fit us into the concept of gender dysphoria that they understand. They also have a common method of providing gender therapy - "go as far as you need with transition - HRT, FFS, SRS, etc - until you feel most comfortable with yourself".

I understand that this model will make me feel good about myself in the end. I also understand that even if my transgender nature is an addiction, curiosity, ... whatever that I took too far, it is quite harmless as long as I do not ruin my own life or anybody else's life.

However, I don't feel like I am getting to the root cause of my issue. I do not know if I am innately gender dysphoric or just something that I have taken too far.

This is precisely why I caution against seeing a gender therapist... One thing often overlooked is that hormones are VERY powerful drugs. Not only do they change your body, they really mess with your brain. Look at what happens to teenagers going through puberty!

I think that one should go through therapy (gender or not) as much as possible without having there brains fogged by chemicals.

Robyn

[TGMarla]

It's all splitting hairs when trying to place a label such as "addiction" or "obsession" on it. It's got characteristics of both. It's certainly a "preoccupation" to me. I think about it many times daily, and there are times when I get an overwhelming urge to dress. So it's more than just an activity even if it's something less than an addiction. But I think it is an obsession at the very least.

[docrobbysherry]

Whether or not we r impacted by; society, our outside friends and family, all the sympathetic posts we read here, or by our own biased thots and/or hormones, one thing is certain!
What we r today, will be different tomorrow!

It is the nature of the world, and CERTAINLY humans, to constantly change. Whatever u think u know about yourself, your desires, and thots of who and WHAT u r, and what u want, will change! For MOST OF US, at least.

As Marla said, we can argue, discuss all the various SIDE issues, ad nauseum! It doesn't matter! Nor does it, if you think you're a CD, or TS, or neither.

One day, we will all understand why and what we r. And where and how we fit into the world. OR NOT!

Well, I'm waiting!!!!!

[Julia Rose]

Well,-to me its not an Obsession, nor an addictive way.
I my self know what lies true deep inside me,--my room mate,thats brn female-told me when I showed her I was a CD.
"your a lesbian"-"in a mans body"-I just replid with "UHUM"-ok!--
I look at what she said,,,"yea, thats 1 way 2 put it"--...
I like only women,--yet all my life whant 2 me a girl/women.
I CD because its part of me,-This dos not change ones true self----
--I AM JULIA-who loves women,not men-& will love the wright women,as so.
yes i Hv the m/wrks-BUT,,MY true heart lies as HER""-JULIA ROSE.
~~~~~~~~~~Hi,2 all,-hope 2 frds?~~Its nice 2 talk 2 ones who understand~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~""warm wish everyone"~~& Hv a grand !-WK"~~~.......

[Carly D.]

Addiction.. always start there and assume that.. actually I think all of the above.. genes I suppose you should start there.. did mom or dad have a perverted thought at the moment of conception??

lifestyle choice: could be.. I'm not sure.. obsession: without a doubt there.. and addiction, easily that.. other.. has to be other.. no ifs ands or others..

[pattipurge]

I know better. I'm not a pervert because I'm like this. I'm simply me. I have a strong feminine side and I choose to embrace and celebrate it rather than pretend it does not exist or try to hide from it. It is truly a gift and I love it!

Ok, this is the part I simply don't "get" and probably never will. when people call this a "gift". I guess it's all a matter of individual perspective, huh?
musical talent? yeah, sure.
artistic talent? yeah, sure.
athletic talent? yeah, sure.
I can't say I view cding as a "gift".

[Tina B.]

Ok, this is the part I simply don't "get" and probably never will. when people call this a "gift". I guess it's all a matter of individual perspective, huh?
musical talent? yeah, sure.
artistic talent? yeah, sure.
athletic talent? yeah, sure.
I can't say I view cding as a "gift".

It's all a matter of prospective, if you are happy it's a gift, if you are uncomfortable with it, then it is something else, but just what else, is what a lot of the time here is spent trying to figure out. We all know we are not part of the "normal society" but are we addicts, addicted to a strange behavior, obsessed with a feminine attraction, or as some would say "Just like to look pretty"( that's for you Karren) that's pretty much up to the individual. I think we all over think it, myself. For me I started down this road way before sexual attraction was in my thoughts, but I have never thought of myself as being female, I just like the look and feel of womens clothes, I harm no one, and I see no harm to myself. I am not enlightened by it, but it does keep me from being depressed, and it keeps me from flairing up in anger, it makes me happy and a pleasent person to me around, what more can I ask it to do? So if you can figure out what causes it, and you can find a cure for it, please do me a favor, and keep it to yourself, I don't want to be cured, I like me just the way I am!
Tina

[Sally2005]

I think it is either all of the above or none. I have no idea what drives me to do it. All I know, if I include it in my life I feel better and after giving in to my urge, the strong desire is a lot less.

[daviolin]

Loads of threads have touched on nature/nurture arguements... where are we on obsession and addictive behaviours? Always wondered if I was getting addicted to this.. the more I get the more I want/can't do without!???

ALL OF THE ABOVE HONEYflickr.com/photos/daviolin

[RobynP]

The underlying assumption for that statement is that addictions will always be correctly diagnosed and that the definition of addiction encompasses everything that should be in there. Right?

Well, yeah... I guess that one of the "escape clauses" used by therapists is that crossdressing (or name whatever else you are into) significantly causes you distress or impairs your functioning in life, then it can be treated similar to an addiction.

I think I can think clearly now. However, that brings me to the next issue. Doesn't testosterone affect me too? I think now I am being heavily influenced by testosterone. I am influenced sexually, a lot, even more than ever before. I often think like a lot of others who want a quick fix to womanhood. How do I know that testosterone is not misleading me in other ways too and fogging my brain.

I am not an endocrinologist so I really don't know in detail how all these chemicals affect our brains and bodies. Our bodies need to have our chemicals at precise levels otherwise strange and possibly harmful things can happen. Yes, testosterone affects you but not in the same way as estrogen... Since you are male, testosterone works in harmony with your brain and your body. Taking estrogen fights the testosterone in your body (which is why t-blockers are necessary) and who knows what it does to the established mental pathways in your brain...

Robyn

[RobynP]

This is the confusing question because I am not sure if I have an unmasculinized brain, or if I am just an obsessive/addict.

There is a lot of research going today on evaluating brain scans that could not be done even just a few years ago due to technology advancements.

If you have the $$$, you might be able to get your brain scanned to settle once and for all the question about having an unmasculinized brain...

If I indeed have an unmasculinized brain, I would say it is estrogen that would make me "whole" mentally, the solution to my depression that would result from the presence of higher levels of testosterone. If I am just obsessed/addicted, then the right solution for me would be to undergo restorative therapy, ie. curing my obsession/addiction, which implies sticking with testosterone until the end of my life. The solutions are 180 degrees in opposite directions depending on the root cause.

I think you have this somewhat backwards. The brain sends signals to our various glands to release various chemicals in our bodies in reaction to various stimuli. Sometimes our brains scramble the messages the stimuli are providing thus telling our glands to release various chemicals incorrectly. The incorrect amout of chemicals could have an adverse affect on the brain scrambling the message processing in the brain even more. That is why there are drugs to help treat depression and anxiety. They attempt to restore the chemical balance that should be there if the brain were functioning normally...

Since we are male, our brains and glands cannot work to produce estrogen naturally which is why we have to take pills forever to do what our bodies cannot do.

All I can tell is that feeling more feminine makes me feel better than feeling more masculine.

Unfortunately, feelings are very, very subjective. Feeling "better" or feeling "worse" can be caused by many, many things, amount of sleep, amount of exercise, interpersonal relationships, external stress, etc. There may be a chemical imbalance such as not enough testosterone. There is a specific range of testosterone levels for men. I highly recommend that you have a complete blood workup including testing your testosterone level. Make sure you are physically well before trying to figure out all the mental puzzle pieces...

Robyn

[Alice Torn]

I agree with a lot said, and Arriana. Any compulsion can take over our lives, and depending what we do with it, and control it, can be a hobby, escape, or become destuctive, ruling us!