In love with an idea?

[Kate Simmons]

In my series of threads about trying to understand some motivations for CDing I've gotten some interesting replies. It occurred to me, however, that it may be possible that some are attracted to(and possibly in love with) the idea of looking like, acting like or even being a woman, even though they know it can never be really possible. This may explain the driving need for some to emulate all facets of what they think being a woman might be like. I know I had similar feelings early on in my CDing "career". and a lot of effort was put forth by myself to attain what I though was being the perfect female.

Turns out that there is no such "animal", never was, never will be, just as there is no such thing as a perfect male inasmuch that hopeful gals keep seraching for one.. What I discovered after getting in touch with my feelings (which was my real motivation) was that everyone is an individual whether male, female or somewhere in-between so therafter I concentrated on getting in touch with and balancing my feelings and getting to know others and appreciating them for who they are. It's really about people rather than ideas.We can consume a lot of time, energy and resources pursuing an idea or concept we have but sometimes the simplest concepts are the hardest to understand.

[Kaylee 85]

An idea is a powerful thing though, and put into a capable head any idea can become reality. Over time your idea can become a driving and powerful force and it can either sweep you away or take you to new hights, it's really up to you.

“An idea that is developed and put into action is more important than an idea that exists only as an idea.”
~Buddha

[sandra-leigh]

It occurred to me, however, that it may be possible that some are attracted to(and possibly in love with) the idea of looking like, acting like or even being a woman, even though they know it can never be really possible.

"autogynophilia" is the current term being used for that. And it's being pushed as the explanation of the majority of cross-dressing. Being pushed by some of the people in charge of re-writing the appropriate section of the US official list of mental health problems -- the very official book that determines whether you can get medical treatment, who pays for it, and so on. As in gender dysphoria would (mostly) be declared to no longer be real, and instead cross-dressers would be treated as needing to be cured of what would be considered a species of narcissism. e.g., in order to get anything like HRT or GRS, you'd probably pretty much have to prove that you had one of the recognized genetic intersexed conditions.

Yes, this does mean that the appropriate section of the mental health manual is likely to be re-written by someone who believes that cross-dressers can be "cured". You know, just like the old theory that homosexuality can be "cured" (a theory that was, incidentally, receiving funding from the Bush administration via the "Faith Based Initiatives" department.)

For more information, search out some of the Media section postings, especially by battybattybats.

[curse within]

It is funny to me you bring such thoughts up , I too think about this disorder ( IMO ) and why I have it. I know I am not Gay.. (not that anything is wrong with it ). But it has been and is a big misunderstanding tied to crossdressing.

Gay men do not find fem things attractive from what I understand although some gay men do crossdress. Which leads me to this subject that some gay men are only attracted to straight males? That may explain the crossdressing on their behalf.

We have threaded conversations about Gene defects and was my theroy prior to coming here ,was why I dressed.. Hormones have taken some blame but have never been proven to be the source anymore than being born with a female brain.

We know through human history that Transgender has made appearances and it is not something that is just found in the western societys today only its everywhere.

Maybe in time the true answer will be dicovered but will it still not be accepted by soceity if the answers are found.. I think we all want the answer but are we prepared to live with them would we be able to face an accepting world ? Could we if the facts of why we do it step out of the closet and be what we where born to be and live an open life with it?

I don't think I could..

[kellycan27]

They all seem to have a common theme. It's like you have some sort of problem with the femininity aspect of it. you can't be an actual woman, "fruity", "pansy like". That's you...... so what? There are many of us that do wish to be as womanly as possible, and there are those of us who do it quite well. Personally I for one,being transexual... don't get the the crossdressing thing, but I don't question the motives of the crossdresser.. Different stroke for different folks.
Why do you crossdress? To get in touch with your female side? Well maybe others do to, but just take it steps further. You just like the clothes? maybe the same for others. Might it just be a case of sour grapes... in that others can do it better, and so might you envy them just a bit or a lot? Your subtle way of putting some of us down isn't lost on me, but I just consider the source.. A guy in a dress..saying things like "fruity" and "pansy like"... questioning my motives...

[Karren H]

I think you over think these things.... maybe we just like to look pretty? At least I do....

[GaleWarning]

And I simply love to wear women's clothes, especially stockings and heels.
Took me a wee while to reach that conclusion, though ...

[rickie121x]

I think you over think these things.... maybe we just like to look pretty? At least I do....

I am one notch more mature than most of us... here at this forum, and I really don't think about it all very much anymore. It's just the way I am. I am occasionally more interested and involved in my crossdressing than at other times, and then I read and check up on styles and available shoes and research about hormones. No big deal, it all just comes and goes.

But I do love this forum - it seems that I find a serenity and ease while I am here. Nice

They all seem to have a common theme. It's like you have some sort of problem with the femininity aspect of it. you can't be an actual woman, "fruity", "pansy like". That's you...... so what? There are many of us that do wish to be as womanly as possible, and there are those of us who do it quite well. Personally I for one,being transexual... don't get the the crossdressing thing, but I don't question the motives of the crossdresser.. Different stroke for different folks.
Why do you crossdress? To get in touch with your female side? Well maybe others do to, but just take it steps further. You just like the clothes? maybe the same for others. Might it just be a case of sour grapes... in that others can do it better, and so might you envy them just a bit or a lot? Your subtle way of putting some of us down isn't lost on me, but I just consider the source.. A guy in a dress..saying things like "fruity" and "pansy like"... questioning my motives...

Kelly - you write as if you were a girl. That's a compliment!

[Kaylee 85]

"autogynophilia" is the current term being used for that. And it's being pushed as the explanation of the majority of cross-dressing. Being pushed by some of the people in charge of re-writing the appropriate section of the US official list of mental health problems -- the very official book that determines whether you can get medical treatment, who pays for it, and so on. As in gender dysphoria would (mostly) be declared to no longer be real, and instead cross-dressers would be treated as needing to be cured of what would be considered a species of narcissism. e.g., in order to get anything like HRT or GRS, you'd probably pretty much have to prove that you had one of the recognized genetic intersexed conditions.

Yes, this does mean that the appropriate section of the mental health manual is likely to be re-written by someone who believes that cross-dressers can be "cured". You know, just like the old theory that homosexuality can be "cured" (a theory that was, incidentally, receiving funding from the Bush administration via the "Faith Based Initiatives" department.)

For more information, search out some of the Media section postings, especially by battybattybats.

Gweh?! What the hell makes someone belive that if someone thinks or acts differently than themselves they're sick? Can I start getting funding to "cure" them into being gay?

Also:
Curse within, you stated that "Gay men do not find fem things attractive from what I understand although some gay men do crossdress. Which leads me to this subject that some gay men are only attracted to straight males? That may explain the crossdressing on their behalf."

As a gay crossdresser I'm a bit offended. I'm not doing it to attract streight guys, I'm doing it because it's who I am. I'm not a woman inside, I'm not attracting a mate, I'm just a guy in a dress who happens to look very good in it. <3

[Sam-antha]

I have many clothes styles, chosen to suit my mood or activies. This goes as much for my minis as for my bike gear or my male-wear. I dress either as I feel or as I can.

~Samm

[kellycan27]

Thank you, and i did take it as a compliment, and I am a girl.
Kel

[beenherelongtime]

I read this post and I come up with "HuH"? What are you saying? Words seem to go in circles without any real conclusion. I would say we are all different people. This doesn't mean that some of our underlying reasons for crossdressing are not the same. I know I have had the desire to be a woman in my past, not to be made love to by a man but to wear the sensous and beautiful clothes that woman do. I also would like to look like the women I adore. Each of us have our own idea of what this is.

Now in my later years, I don't have the same fantasies that I had when I was younger.

Getting older, I can not write too long without my mind wandering. So: so long for now.

[Miranda09]

I think, for me anyway, that my CDing has alot to do with trying to understand women, and not be so afraid of letting my emotions out. My feminine alter-ego, if you will, allows me to do just that...even without dressing up. Actually, if more men took the time to experience what it's like to be a women in todays society, we might have a very different social structure....one that wold be a vast improvement over many aspects of todays culture. For me, it's not enough to just dress in womens clothing, but to see if I can actually pass as a woman. Soon, I'll post a few picks so you can tell me how I'm doing!! Oh, and let's not forget dressing as a women feels greaaaaaaatttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deedee Dupree]

I gave you the benefit of the doubt for a long time. Now, I'm not sure you are entirely for real. YOU SEEM TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE WHO CAN EXPRESS THEMSELVES MORE ARTISTICLY THAN YOU APPEAR TO UNDERSTAND, AND YOU SEEM TO NEED SOME KIND OF APPROVAL FOR YOUR POINT OF VIEW.

I had access to most of my emotions & feelings since I was a teenager. the problem was breaking the chain of conditioning preventing the possibility of becomming more human. Took a long time to recognise and reintegate. It's something you talk about a lot, but you may not be as "advanced" as you think you are. And then you write about you're some kind of re-incarnated queen from the past who is in touch with aliens who are preventing the earth from ecological distruction, I have to wonder despite the many points you bring up I totally agree with.

[Kate Simmons]

Interesting Deedee, someone actually does pay attention. The best(and most honest) replies it seems are those generated after placing a burr under the saddle. Go figure.

[curse within]

As someone who has spent years trying to rid the burden of something I will never understand ( if born female probably still wouldn't understand ). Years of searching for answers for ..Why?

I would venture to sucpect Aliens could have entered my brain and re wired me on some expeirment. ( I never did but I am desperate ).. Or a lost female sole or spirt is sharing my body..( Hey like I said I am desperate ).

Everyone reaches out for a reason can't we just along

[Pamela Julie]

I feel like I have achieved the perfect female appearance when someone looking at me sees a woman, not a man in a dress. I don't have to be gorgeous, or even attractive. I just don't want to look ugly, or like a man in a dress. I would prefer to look beautiful like any woman would, and I have to go to further lengths to achieve that goal. I am not there quite yet.

Pamela

[Kate Simmons]

I think you over think these things.... maybe we just like to look pretty? At least I do....

Understood Karren. My heart tends to agree with you but my brain makes me work for it.

[Deedee Dupree]

Interesting Deedee, someone actually does pay attention. The best(and most honest) replies it seems are those generated after placing a burr under the saddle. Go figure.

Yes, I pay attention. Burr under the saddle?, Well if that's what you're doing... far too little of that here. dd

[Sophie A Walker]

The Why of CDing or of TS TG TV Gender Dysphoria ect is problematic to me. The autogynaphilia thing cited somewhere above is a case in point, originally used to define 'older' transexuals not CD's. (Blanchard I think?)

There is a natural bias in the medical profession and Psychology to find cause and cure, or at least treatment. Treatment for distress related to gender crossing, and treatment to cross gender boundaries requires medical expertese, and there is an assumption that if medical help is required then it must be a disease. The argument then loops back to eradicating cause and curing those exposed to the toxin.

Gender crossing doesn't quite fit this model, I don't want to be cured, I like it. I don't like the social reaction it sometimes gets but I want to change that not what made me who I am.

The search for cause in the medical model often becomes simplistic:

A leads to B.

The problem from a bio/social/psychological point of view is that,

A B C D E and F can lead to G H I J K L and M.

Autogynaphilia as a theory is useless, as it describes one symptom experienced by some people sometimes. It doesn't adequately explain why I continued to dress as a girl whenever I could, at the age of six after I was told that I couldn't play dress up with my sisters any more because it worried my dad.

Some people who cross dress might be 'in love' with the idea of being a woman, some might just feel more comfortable dressed, others might dress because it arouses them, some because they feel like a girl and always have, and others for other reasons.

Prehaps we all want to belong, and want others to be the way they are, for the same reasons we are the way we are, but shouldn't we be careful to recognise that there are lots of different ways of being and lots of different reasons for being the way we are.

[Carin]

I happen to believe in Gender, as a distinct abstract psychological phenomenon.

It is too easy to write off transgender as a confused state of seeking the ideal female form. That concept is trying to put transgender back in the box. That is the viewpoint held by Bailey and Blanchard et al with their "autogynophilia". (Further rant on this topic suppressed). I don't fault anyone for not understanding transgender, but is is narrow-minded to force it (especially by so-called experts) into established concepts.

Take transgender outside the box. Separate gender from being attached specifically to man or woman. That does not negate its existence and strong influence in each of us.

... some are attracted to (and possibly in love with) the idea of looking like, acting like or even being a woman, even though they know it can never be really possible. This may explain the driving need for some to emulate all facets of what they think being a woman might be like. ....

It makes more sense (using the membership of this site as a sample) that seeking the ideal female form is but one form of expression of transgender. There are many here - me included - that do not aim for the idealized woman representation, but rather aim for an expression that fits their own psychologically.

What I discovered after getting in touch with my feelings (which was my real motivation) was that everyone is an individual whether male, female or somewhere in-between so thereafter I concentrated on getting in touch with and balancing my feelings and getting to know others and appreciating them for who they are. It's really about people rather than ideas.We can consume a lot of time, energy and resources pursuing an idea or concept we have ...

Getting in touch with ones feelings and finding one's own balance and uniqueness, does not negate the existence of gender, or the need or instinct to express that wherever it falls on the transgender spectrum.

[Tammy298]

Although I do have an interest in dressing and looking more like a woman, I don't think those desires are rooted any differently than my current experiences. Due mostly to my family, I'm somewhat limited to either underdressing or dressing for bed/play at night. As far as underdressing, panties are much more comfortable than men's "things", and stockings just feel soooo good any time of day or night!
I've always liked stockings, whether on pinups photo or on my SO, so wearing them myself, makes ME feel special, erotic and sensual. Does that make me want to feel like a woman? I'm not really sure about that since are those kinds of feelings limited to women? Do having those feelings mean that a guy wants to be a woman? If a man likes silky things against his body or have stockings encase his legs, does that make him any less a man? Why do women like to wear stockings? Just to attarct a man, or do they also like the way they feel??
I like being a man. But I and my wife like seeing and the feel of me in lingerie and women's clothes. I guess what I'm trying to get to, is that women's clothes are meant to look and feel sexy, men's clothes aren't. So should I feel like this in any way makes me desire or wish I was a women? I don't! I believe I am fortunate enough and open minded enough to appreciate much more than than society limits the typical male too: drabs! I think we all here aren't at all strange or weird, as I once believed I was, but that we are all very fortunate, gifted and openminded!

[Miranda09]

Although I do have an interest in dressing and looking more like a woman, I don't think those desires are rooted any differently than my current experiences. Due mostly to my family, I'm somewhat limited to either underdressing or dressing for bed/play at night. As far as underdressing, panties are much more comfortable than men's "things", and stockings just feel soooo good any time of day or night!
I've always liked stockings, whether on pinups photo or on my SO, so wearing them myself, makes ME feel special, erotic and sensual. Does that make me want to feel like a woman? I'm not really sure about that since are those kinds of feelings limited to women? Do having those feelings mean that a guy wants to be a woman? If a man likes silky things against his body or have stockings encase his legs, does that make him any less a man? Why do women like to wear stockings? Just to attarct a man, or do they also like the way they feel??
I like being a man. But I and my wife like seeing and the feel of me in lingerie and women's clothes. I guess what I'm trying to get to, is that women's clothes are meant to look and feel sexy, men's clothes aren't. So should I feel like this in any way makes me desire or wish I was a women? I don't! I believe I am fortunate enough and open minded enough to appreciate much more than than society limits the typical male too: drabs! I think we all here aren't at all strange or weird, as I once believed I was, but that we are all very fortunate, gifted and openminded!

I agree with you Tammy.....

[kellycan27]

Although I do have an interest in dressing and looking more like a woman, I don't think those desires are rooted any differently than my current experiences. Due mostly to my family, I'm somewhat limited to either underdressing or dressing for bed/play at night.
!

Let's say that you didn't have those "limitations" ? Might you desire to ratchet it up a notch or two? You have self imposed limitations ( for good reason) Have you set the depth of the "roots" to coinside with your imposed limitations? Like saying... ok, this is how far I can go because..so I am content. Just curious.
Kelly

[Samantha B L]

Arianna,your observations and ruminations are always interesting and lots of times I learn a thing or two from them. In fact, you're the wise old lady by the mantle! But mostly,I think we all do this because "girls just want to have fun".