T girl Snobbishness?

[Kelli Michelle]

Lorileah, on another thread made the statement,

"On that note, I have not been to the local T-bars for awhile. One reason was that I felt like I was in enemy territory. I try to look good when I dress. I am not always successful and often feel like I fail but in a public place where there are a lot of "T-girls" I get the cold shoulder and the look down the nose."

I hadn't thought about that type of thing for a while, but I was reminded because of Lorileah's post and my own experience last night.

I am away on business, in Austin, and decided to go out to a local tg friendly bar downtown. I saw a couple of tgirls, but we all sorta were like ships in the night and they had people with them. Then I saw two other girls, one of which, seemed to be on a date. She was very attractive, dressed very sexy, but not too much. Anyway, I was at the bar getting a drink, and she looked me over, and just gave me a sorta dismissive look, almost derisive in a way. A couple of minutes later, she glanced my way again, and did it again.

Now I don't let things like that bother me (and it IS possible I misread her), but I was just really disappointed in her supposed attitude. I had seen that kinda thing before, usually with girls that are "further along the path than me", but I don't get it. Don't they remember where they came from?

I know in Austin and San Antonio, where I live, I have met many tg people that are great to be with, but this......

Anybody else have similar experiences? Has it thrown you off going out?

[Kathi Lake]

Oh yeah. I went to Diva's in SanFran a few months ago. You know what? I'll say it. I was looking good. Some of the T-girls in there were, shall we say, "working girls" and gave me some pretty ugly looks. Those looks I was getting I translated to mean "Uh UH, sister! Don't you dare move in on my guy!"

Of course, it could have been simply that I wasn't looking as good as I thought I was and the looks were those of pity.

Kathi

[TxKimberly]

Where did you go out? I hate the thought that you came to Austin and were treated with less than hospitality. The only time I recall seeing someone dismissed in such a fashion there was when he (it was a gay male, not TG) walked in wearing nothing but leather chaps, and with a collar and leash being held by his lover apparently. They didn't get a terribly warm welcome.

[Marilynn]

Bars are not the best place to look for "sisterhood," I suspect. You'll see the same behavior by girls in bars all the time.

[charlie]

At several of the TG/gay bars t-girls go there to pick up guys. If you look hot and they think you could be competition, then you can get the attitude thing. If the professional girls know you are not out looking to take their dates then they can be quite friendly.

[Nicole Erin]

I am shocked that people would suggest that TG women are bitches.
If you would just get to know some in real life, you will find this is only 50% true.

[TGMarla]

Kimberly....you hang in some really wild bars.



Anyhoo, I really haven't been out to any TG friendly bars. In fact, I don't even know if there is one where I live. Bummer, huh? But it's really too bad that a fellow t-chick would treat anyone like that. What makes her ...uhh....crud not stink? I'd like to think that I'd encourage just about anyone with the guts to get out there in front of people. I think everybody should.

[Angie G]

Well there are alway some who think they are better then others. yYou just keep being your sweet self hun.
Angie

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

Anybody else have similar experiences? Has it thrown you off going out?

I think it exists as much as real girls seem to have an attitude about who is hotter. We've all seen a gg become upset in the presence of another attractive woman who may be dressed sexier than she is. I dated a girl who believed that EVERY hot chick was a "s|ut". She was an extreme case, but you get the point.

I know how jealous I get when I see all the other WAY more attractive t-girls online. I don't hate them because of it though - just wish I could look as good. I think some do feel threatened by other good looking t-girls. I also think some are down right snobbish to those who are "not up to their level of attractiveness".

Although I have never been out en femme, I've experienced this to some extent online personally, in my communications with others. I guess it is to be expected. Human nature, perhaps... at least in some.

[Sandra]

Yep I've noticed this.

A few years ago we went away for the weekend to an annual event for TGs and parnters were welcomed to.

Not only did Nigella get the look down the nose but I did as well, why I don't know, this also happened even if we said "hello", the feeling I got was that some of them thought they were better than us.

Don't let it bother you, if they want to be like that then so be it.

[erickka]

That kind of behavior is exactly why neither my wife or I patronize any bars. Some of the people always seem to have some kind of corn cob stuck where the sun don't shine. It makes for a less than enjoyable evening.

[Teri Jean]

It could be as simple as you looked better than they did. LOL This happens with GGs all the time.

Keli

[karynspanties]

I have been to GiGi's in Detroit about a dozen times over the years. I have had that happen to me maybe three times. Mostly the gay males snub their noses. Which is fine, I am not there for the gay males, I am there to be with my sisters. But overall, I was welcomed and introduced around. It really does not matter where you go, there will aleays be those few out there that think that they are better than you. It's just the way it is. Ignore those individuals and socialize with the ones that are friendly and you will be fine.

[Desiree2bababe]

Back in the day, yes. Jeoslousy is rapant among the queens. Did it stop me, heck no. Made me strut my stuff even more........

[cindym5_04]

I have been to GiGi's in Detroit about a dozen times over the years. I have had that happen to me maybe three times. Mostly the gay males snub their noses. Which is fine, I am not there for the gay males, I am there to be with my sisters. But overall, I was welcomed and introduced around. It really does not matter where you go, there will aleays be those few out there that think that they are better than you. It's just the way it is. Ignore those individuals and socialize with the ones that are friendly and you will be fine.

I think that's the name of the bar I went to a few years back when I went to Detroit!! (I went to see the Eminem concert at Ford Field) That place was pretty fun. It's one of the very very few times in my life that I actually got drunk- needed to because of the girl that I was there with. The alcohol made it better.

Anyway, as far as the t-girls snobby thing, I've witnessed this on more than one occasion. I've had this happen at bars before by "enhanced" tgirls. It's also happened online when I've made mention that I'm not on hormones and don't plan to transition. Somehow I guess that makes me less of a person.

The flipside to that is that other cd's/tv's or shall we say non-hormone/non-enhanced girls and genetic girls, I've never been treated that way.

I'm not going to classify and say the word "all" about any of the groups, because I do believe it's a person-by-person basis. That's just been my experiences though. And thanks Karen, you made me miss Detroit. Although I was only there for 2 1/2 days, it's someplace that I can say (and go ahead and laugh) that I was honestly truly comfortable at. I know people say a lot of bad things about Detroit, but I found everyone to be quite friendly up there - whether I was in drab or drag.

[MJ]

Yep I've noticed this.
the feeling I got was that some of them thought they were better than us.
Don't let it bother you, if they want to be like that then so be it.

it is true that some t-girls think there shit don't stink and that they are better then everyone else.

the same can be said regarding gg's as well .

you will fine they have never been married or have kids and therefore the world revolves around them.

i have noticed that those of us who are or have been married and have children are more down to earth and more tolerant of others

[Sandra]

you will fine they have never been married or have kids and therefore the world revolves around them.

Yep noticed that as well.

i have noticed that those of us who are or have been married and have children are more down to earth and more tolerant of others

Noticed that as well and, may I say some of the older ladies where more forth coming.

[Kate Simmons]

Yeah, I ran into a couple of (not sure what they were really) Miss Gay whatever's and former Miss Gay whatever's.They are gay guys who get their title by dressing as women. When I complimented them on their outfits, they looked at me like I was some kind of bag lady. When I complimented one on her crown, she said to me very sarcastically: "It's a tiara." My friend had to hold me back as I wanted to show her exactly what she could do with her "tiara". Usually snobs are not worth the effort but it got my goat that night.

[LisaM]

Kelli,

I have run into the same thing a number of times but for a number of reasons it doesn't really bother me.
First, I am 51 now and I haven't been able to compete with the younger girls for quite a while.
Second, I feel good about what I've accomplished in my life so I try not to let snobbishness bother me in any aspect of my life. I've worked hard, lived well, have a great relationship with my spouse, raised a family. I just brush off any snobbishness as a lack of intellectual curiousity.
Lastly, I realize that sometimes what I think is snobbishness is nothing more than insecurity and I try not to make judgments on people until after I get to know them.

[Kelli Michelle]

I was in Charlie's bar on Lavacca. I was there to play in a pool tournament, but alas, got there too late. I wasn't and usually don't go to look for "sisters" but just to enjoy myself. I love going to "'Bout Time" (and know a few people there) and this was their sister bar. Normally, 95% of the time there are never any issues. This was only the 2nd time this has happened when I have been in Austin. It wasn't an issue for me really, I didn't let it ruin my evening. I guess t-girls can be just as "catty" as real girls.

[msginaadoll]

I go to Rainbow Room as well as Gigis in Detroit. Initially I thought so many of the girls there were stuck up. Noone really talked to me and people ignored me. What I came to realize at least for me was that being nervous, I put off an air of being unapproachable and even stuck up. When I decided to come out of my shell I realized how friendly so many of the ladies actually were. I would just walk over and say hi. Latter when talking about it one girl even said that initially she thought i was full of myself. My nervousness was a lot to do with seeing all the lovely ladies there and feeling like I didnt fit in. I was the ugly step sister. Took a while to realize that it wasnt a competition. When I started feeling more sure of myself people were a lot more friendlier and so was I. Since my start I have talked to the Divas at the bars and found most of them really great people.

[Kelli Michelle]

I go to Rainbow Room as well as Gigis in Detroit. Initially I thought so many of the girls there were stuck up. Noone really talked to me and people ignored me. What I came to realize at least for me was that being nervous, I put off an air of being unapproachable and even stuck up. When I decided to come out of my shell I realized how friendly so many of the ladies actually were. I would just walk over and say hi. Latter when talking about it one girl even said that initially she thought i was full of myself. My nervousness was a lot to do with seeing all the lovely ladies there and feeling like I didnt fit in. I was the ugly step sister. Took a while to realize that it wasnt a competition. When I started feeling more sure of myself people were a lot more friendlier and so was I. Since my start I have talked to the Divas at the bars and found most of them really great people.

I think there is a lot of truth in what you said. I am not nervous at all (now anyway), but sometimes I know I look aloof, when I am just busy looking around. So, of course, they may have misread me. But, I definitely didn't look down my nose at her---not one bit. I wanted to smile at her, but not with that look she was giving me----lol.

BTW she was very attractive, and while I do think I looked pretty damn good myself, I don't think she had to worry about who looked better. But you know how insecure we can all be!!!!!

Frankly, I have never felt in competition with anyone else, honestly. I have too many things to worry about: does my makeup look good, is my skirt too short, why did I wear the heels with the scuff marks, did I forget my wallet (again)? I just want to look the best I can look. I actually like hanging out with passable cders, as much as I do with anyone, cause I figure, I can definitely find something to help me look better.

[Genifer Teal]

Some of the T-girls in there were, shall we say, "working girls" and gave me some pretty ugly looks.
Kathi

This is probably the reason. They feel you are either trying to move in on their business or likely to give it away for free. By that I mean we (CDers) are not looking to sell our services but might like attention from a man and maybe even a date. Simply by being there, you are interfere with their business. Be careful of compliments too in this situation. They will compliment a bad look so they always look better. IMHO, unless you have services to offer, I'd stay away from those places. Don't judge all T girls by this behavior. All girls can be katty at times. This is different.

Gen

[Nicki B]

Given the rest of humanity manages to exhibit the behaviour, why should T-people be any different?


But I know of at least two long standing feuds, based on someone thinking they'd been 'cut' or ignored, which were really due to sight or hearing problems which weren't immediately obvious?

I think there is a lot of general insecurity in this community that can lead to reading things as slights, when they're not intended as such..


And I know far too many girls who refuse to wear their glasses when out dressed..

[Katheryn]

I had seen that kinda thing before, usually with girls that are "further along the path than me", but I don't get it.

GRRRRRRR! This has always been one of my biggest bustle burners.... let me point out exactly what toasts my tush:

"further along THE path"

Like there's only one path. If you're a born male and you put on a skirt, eventually you're going to want to have breasts, whack of the bits and live as a woman. And until you do, you're a gutless wannabee.

I'm sorry, but I do not hate my male half at all, I don't want to exorcise him from my existance. I am quite happy just dressing up now and then and maybe going out to dinner or to a friend or my sister's house. Or just wearing elements of femme attire. Even just looking down and seeing my pretty painted toes.

Everyone is on a different path, it's not one road. We glimpse each other through the trees as we walk our paths, they sometimes parallel each other for awhile, but we're hardly ever actually treading in another's footsteps.

Okay, I'll get off the soapbox for now, be well.


Kate