When people respond to threads on "passing"

[Violetgray]

I've noticed a trend whenever one of us brings up the subject of passing.

Whenever someone wants to know whether or not they pass or how they getting better at passing, 10 times out of 10 they get a response along the lines of,

"It's not passing that matters. It's how YOU feel."

or,

"It's not about looks, its acceptance. Act like you belong there, and people will treat you accordingly."

Now these statements, and statements like them are generally 100% true, but they don't answer the question. It almost seems as though some peopel assume that if you ask about passing, then it must be how you define yourself and you need to get your priorities straight. Passing is fun, makes you feel pretty, and it's a fun goal. Wanting to pass doesn't necessarily mean that you need to rearrange your priorities, it just means that you want to look like a girl. You shouldn't use it to validate who you are, but I for one would rather look like a frumpy woman than a gorgeous tranny. It's gg's very existence that I find beauty in.

Be who you are first and foremost, but is there anything wrong with wanting to be so pretty that people think you're a GG?

[KateC]

I find this problem too with people's responses. I don't know if the question was perceived wrong or different but in my opinion, I think it's just a lot of canned responses or PC responses that people give instead of the truth.

I find it annoying actually. If someone asks a question weather they pass, and if they don't, please don't give them a POS answer saying stuff about "it's how you feel and how your attitude is", just say it outright to them "you don't pass, maybe your hair but that's it".

Honest answers are better than beating around the bush.

[MissConstrued]

but I for one would rather look like a frumpy woman than a gorgeous tranny.

Nah! If I want to look frumpy, I'll dress like a guy. But that's just what works for me. I know GG's can be a bit put off if we carry it too far, say with voice & such. I think they find the idea (from my experience, anyway) of the pretty, yet obvious, tranny less threatening and more interesting.

But as always, your mileage may vary.

[Dressing Jill]

Hi Violet

It all about how you feel about it. And to get the acceptance from those around you.

I'm really pissed right now some idiots work on a boat dock have destroyed my fence, caused big Ruts in my lot and denied it. I am not the biggest man in the world but I can back up my stuff. Needless to say they left in not so pleasant farewell. But I am still left with fixing there screw ups.

I think that we all try to answer the thread and after a couple of answers thats it. So than we just give recognition on there efforts to be supportive. Sorry I am not thinking real clear. I am in man mode and Jill is trying to settle me down.

Sometimes I like to be ornery.

Hope you get your answer

LMAO

Hugs

Jill

[Holly]

Then perhaps the wrong question is being asked. If you want to know if you "look like" a GG then ask that question. Passing is so much more than looks. It involves voice, phrasing, vocabulary, deportment, confidence, and so on. These things are impossible to determine from a photo.

[Joanne f]

There was a time when i would have agreed with the "i want to pass brigade" and yes i geuss it would be nice , but now i understand what others have said about it is how you feel that's more important and i have to agree with them .
Life is all about how you feel and not how you look, you could be the most stunning looking person in the world but still not be happy within your self, beauty is not happiness but happiness is beauty

[Kate Simmons]

Some folks just convey how they feel when they go out Violet. For many (myself included) passing is the least of it and having a good time and enjoying themselves is the most of it.

[AllieSF]

Yes, I have been guilty of saying that passing is more than looks. I do notice that in general it seems like the "Do I pass" threads are written by realitive newbies to this site (not counting how long they may have actually been dressing). So, under that right or wrong assumption, I feel that people are being supportive to the thread originator when adding comments that passing does not have to be only about looks. I do agree that in many threads on varying topics, we can get easily sidetracked and miss answering the original questions. I will try to watch and avoid that in the future.

[SweetCaroline]

If I tell someone that I believe passing is more about attitude than it is about appearance, then it's because I really do believe passing is more about attitude than anything else.

Yes I agree, looking you best is important if you're presenting yourself in public, and there's nothing wrong with wanting people to mistake you for a GG, but to me, being mistaken for a GG is not why I go out, and very few ever achieve that level of "passing" anyway.

Personally, I don't think much about passing as much as I do going out and being myself and having fun, which is why I answer such questions in such a way.

[chrystie]

Just a couple of questions. Does anyone dress cause it feels good,or you like it,or is everybody dressing so they can pass.Do they want to be women that much that they have given up the plain joy and comfort of dressing.I'm a 58 year old man.I've have implants cause my wife and I both enjoy them.I am financially able to not have to work and I dress 24/7.I don't own any male clothes.I have always,and still do,enjoy just wearing womens clothes,but I am not concerned with passing for a woman.At 58 I don't much care what people think or say,either accept it or move on.
That's all,just wanted to get that out.Hope it makes sense.

[Miranda09]

Yes, if your are out in public, attitude is an important factor in determining if you pass as a GG or not. However, if you're talking about how one looks in a picture, passing means...can I pass as a GG based on my looks. You can't always express attitude in a photo. Personally, I may never go out enFemme, but then again someday I might. However, looking the part is easily as important as feeling the part and attitude.

[Tal'Aura]

I think it's just a lot of canned responses or PC responses that people give instead of the truth.

Jolan Tru,

I couldn't agree more. Tons of inane responses is one of factors which greatly reduced my activity on this forum, so I became just a sporadic lurker. Every time I see the same people and the same pattern of thread/replies...

[Lorileah]

Be who you are first and foremost, but is there anything wrong with wanting to be so pretty that people think you're a GG?

Absolutely not. However, there are maybe a handful here who could really pass in public. As Gilbert and Sullivan said "She may very well pass for 43 in the dusk with the light behind her" Granted there are some GG's who are over 6 feet tall and weigh over 200# with size 13 feet (otherwise we would all run around naked without the clothes made for them) but as it is in the TS community, a vast majority of post-op TS's still look manly. The ones you don't notice are the ones who "pass".

The mission of "passing" is to look drop dead gorgeous. It is a high target and when people ask if we think they can pass (judging from a picture) the answer should be "probably not" but the best answer is "if you really want to and try really hard." and that is what we should do, try really hard

[LisaM]

Violet,

I agree with a lot of your points but at the same time I agree with the ladies that say that "Passing doesn't matters. It's how you feel."

You mentioned that you would rather look like a frumpy old woman than a gorgeous tranny and that really hit a nerve---because that is the way I feel as well. I just want to look and be 'accepted' as a woman. I don't need to be beautiful although I want to look my best. I just want to fit in and be a woman.

Now I am 6'3" tall and it is pretty difficult to just fit in. But this is where the other side holds some truth. If I dress my best and carry myself with confidence and grace, I am often treated with the same dignity and respect that any woman receives.

The difficult part of the entire issue of passing is that not all of us are gifted with the size or shape or facial structure to really pass. Some look like men in dresses and what do you say to them. They have the same feelings and desires as all of us. I like to think we should encourage everyone to find a place where they can feel good about themselves.

But each of us will find a different place just like each of us has a different view of passing.

[Sheila]

is there anything wrong with wanting to be so pretty that people think you're a GG?

You mean i am pretty awwwwwww thanks Violet

Hun it is so much about being confident in, who you are & what you are wearing, that makes passability

[Karren H]

Hold on!! I will always say this cause I feel its true.. Photos don't tell squat on how someone could pass in public yet people keep posting "do I look good enough to pass" threds.. You can be the most georgeops babe in a photo.. From certain angles.. And I play the game.. I look way better in photos at certain anles that ido in person...

But if you walkin into the mall like a football player guess what... Your not going to pass.. Or if you go into a store and act like your tryng to hide something by lurking around and hiding.. People are drawn to that.. Not passing!!

So even the most marginal looking GG passes because of one thing!! An attitude that says she is a woman and belongs there dressed as she is.. And that can't be determined from a photo!! So yeah you ca look just beautuiful but no one is going to know if you pass until you do a run through the mall....

[Miranda09]

Hold on!! I will always say this cause I feel its true.. Photos don't tell squat on how someone could pass in public yet people keep posting "do I look good enough to pass" threds.. You can be the most georgeops babe in a photo.. From certain angles.. And I play the game.. I look way better in photos at certain anles that ido in person...

But if you walkin into the mall like a football player guess what... Your not going to pass.. Or if you go into a store and act like your tryng to hide something by lurking around and hiding.. People are drawn to that.. Not passing!!

So even the most marginal looking GG passes because of one thing!! An attitude that says she is a woman and belongs there dressed as she is.. And that can't be determined from a photo!! So yeah you ca look just beautuiful but no one is going to know if you pass until you do a run through the mall....

True Karen, but that's not what Violet is asking when she posts a picture. All she wants to now is whether her approach, style and looks could pass. BTW, looking at your pics, you could easily pass as an attractive GG. I've never seen you public, but it doesnt matter. You've got the look!

[Brina Halloween]

I suspect what most mean when they make the comments about confidence, attitude, voice, etc. is that the picture could pass but, they can't accurately judge based on a photo.

I see only a few people posting many photos where all or nearly all look believable. If I just see 3 to 5 photos, I will probably think a couple are good, and a couple not so great. Call that a coin toss and I am tempted to vote that it depends on mannerisms.

Brina

[gillian1968]

Really, it's two things I see going on here.

One, there's the desire to boost a friend's confidence. Saying that it's all in your attitude is meant to relax the person, and help them understand that passing is only partially about appearance. You have to admit, we're generally a very skittish and unsure bunch. Just like anyone, we need that boost of confidence to even take that first step. We want to see our sisters succeed.

Two, we may sometimes be misinterpreting the person's motivation behind the question. It's hard to read a few words on a post and determine what's going on in their head. So we take it at face value, and sometimes post responses that don't answer their question - do I look pretty?

I have become a terrible judge of my own appearance - I'm so used to me. I need that separate opinion to help point out flaws in my presentation that I've become accustomed to and just don't see anymore. My wife has even reached this stage, where she really has to think to suggest some improvement.

I'm happy that I've recently come out to my oldest daughter, who is a new source of opinion and has helped me improve my image just a little bit more.

So, I'd say, maybe we should ask our sisters to clarify their question, or post some guidance to help them understand the two aspects of such a thread.

Oh, and there's nothing wrong at all with wanting to be pretty

-Gillian

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

Photos don't tell squat on how someone could pass in public yet people keep posting "do I look good enough to pass" threds.. You can be the most georgeops babe in a photo.. From certain angles.. And I play the game.. I look way better in photos at certain anles that ido in person...

Yeah, me too. There's a lot of room to play with in 2D imagery. Live in person is a whole different ball game.

If only we could get people to all stand really still and then only look at us from that perfect angle when we're in the room... it would be so much easier to pass.



For the record, I want to be gorgeous! I want to be seen as a sexy, hot, jaw-dropping babe! It probably ain't gonna happen, but that's what I really want. Got to set those sights high and hope for the best.

[sissystephanie]

Then perhaps the wrong question is being asked. If you want to know if you "look like" a GG then ask that question. Passing is so much more than looks. It involves voice, phrasing, vocabulary, deportment, confidence, and so on. These things are impossible to determine from a photo.

As usual, Holly says it completely correctly. "Looking like" a GG and actually being able to pass as one are completely different things. Holly certainly looks like a GG in her Avatar, but only those who really know her can say whether or not she "Passes!"

Because I had practiced all the things Holly mentioned, when my late wife fixed my wig and did my makeup, I did pass with no problem! We even went out occasionally with friends who thought I was a lady friend from out of town!

Two of the major items that must be in play are confidence and attitude. You might think that they are the same, but really they are not. You must have CONFIDENCE in your ability to project a feminine image, and the ATTITUDE that this is the REAL ME!! No matter how good you look, if you don't have those qualities in your repertoire you will never "Pass!"

BTW, that same confidence and attitude is what allows me to go out in public now dressed, but looking very much like the guy I am! I know I am a CD, and I don't care what others think!

[Nicole Erin]

For the passing thing, one thing that would help a lot of us is if we could be painfully honest with ourselves as to what looks good and what we need to fix. The male voice doesn't cut it, being over 30 and wearing a bright blonde wig or mini skirt is tacky. That top you found at the thrift store probably won't cut it.
It is a matter of looking at yourself and saying "what could be better?"
Do I pass exceptionally well? No. Why? Cause I am too lazy to do all the work I would need to.

Yes there are TG out there that just could not pass no matter what, but that is not most of us.
It seems very few TG even attempt to dress in a way that best flatters their looks. Instead, they either dress in that $3 outfit from Goodwill or go over the top and their miniskirt barely covers their butt.

The easiest part of putting together a passable look is invest in good outfits and a wig. You don't need the 16 inch heels or the leopard mini.
After that, make sure your grooming is as good as possible. Basically concentrate on passing well instead of getting turned on by ridiculous outfits.

[windycissy]

Excellent post, and it's brought out some very insightful responses...I must confess that when I see a "Do I Pass" or "Am I Pretty" thread from a girl who is hopeless, rather than hurt her feelings, I've just ignored them. It would probably be nicest to send a private message with the brutal truth. Of course, it's hard to tell from photos, you should see some of my out-takes!

[Marilynn]

... I for one would rather look like a frumpy woman than a gorgeous tranny.

Not me - I do look closer to a frumpy woman, but I'd much rather look like a fair-to-middlin' tranny.


I try not to open "passing" threads. I understand why the question gets asked, but there's a difference between a literal reading of a question and the message the words are communicating. I take a "passing" question to translate to "could you give me a little positive reinforcement," and I see no problem with that. We grease the wheels of social interactions with compliments and "attaboys" all the time. If your wife asks you if she's as pretty as when you first met, you know the only possible answer. She's not wrong for asking, and you're not wrong for telling her the right answer.

The truth is that even those who take great pictures would find it very difficult to pass as a woman under any sort of direct examination - and I'm not talking about how you walk, or body language, or confidence. The genetically lucky can carry it off, but most of us reveal our sex in many subtle ways that makeup and a wig can't really cover.

If passing is getting out of the car during daylight and walking around without getting beat up, then I have no doubt that many here have "passed." People going about their own business have no reason to pay attention to every other person on the street. To me, passing is standing in front of someone, getting their attention and leaving them assuming that you are a woman. I have no doubt that some here can carry that off in some circumstances - so don't call me out for calling you a liar - I trust you. I just don't think that most people who ask about passing are actually looking for an objective critique. In XX% of the threads here, if I answered truthfully, I'd have to say "not an icicle's chance in Hades. But then I'd be answering the literal question, not the figurative one.

Everyone can "pass" in their own minds. For most of us, that will have to be good enough.

[sterling12]

#1. We couldn't tell if someone "passed" from a photograph under ANY conditions. It's a moment in time and photo's are often "doctored." At best, they give us a 2 dimensional image of a 3 dimensional person!

#2. NO ONE passes 100% of the time, perhaps the one's who come closest are some post-op TS Gurls who have done a ****load of hormones and have had a lot of plastic surgery! But, I'll bet even they get "read" every once in a while....for many different reasons.

#3. Maybe the people on this Forum are not into hurting someone's feelings! You can often "read between the lines" on a lot of these pleas. What they seem to really be saying is: "Do I pass? Please tell me yes, yes, yes!"

So, we go back to our old Mantra, cause' it's valid. It's not about "passing." It's about acceptance of self, it's about "blending," it's about projecting the kind of image that we would like The Public to associate with us.

Will we continue to get these types of messages.....of course we will. Perhaps, if we keep giving the same answers a lot of new people who are scared of going out on The Street might get some useful information, and get on with the rest of their lives.

Peace and Love, Joanie