When people respond to threads on "passing"

[Nicki B]

Now these statements, and statements like them are generally 100% true, but they don't answer the question.

Because, as has been said, it's quite impossible to answer that question? Sadly, it never seems to stop people asking..

The mission of "passing" is to look drop dead gorgeous.

Err - is it? If you want to pass without being noticed as trans, simply dress at least ten years older than your age and wear a grey wig..

[Taylermade]

I've noticed a trend whenever one of us brings up the subject of passing.

Whenever someone wants to know whether or not they pass or how they getting better at passing, 10 times out of 10 they get a response along the lines of,

"It's not passing that matters. It's how YOU feel."

or,

"It's not about looks, its acceptance. Act like you belong there, and people will treat you accordingly."

Now these statements, and statements like them are generally 100% true, but they don't answer the question. It almost seems as though some peopel assume that if you ask about passing, then it must be how you define yourself and you need to get your priorities straight. Passing is fun, makes you feel pretty, and it's a fun goal. Wanting to pass doesn't necessarily mean that you need to rearrange your priorities, it just means that you want to look like a girl. You shouldn't use it to validate who you are, but I for one would rather look like a frumpy woman than a gorgeous tranny. It's gg's very existence that I find beauty in.

Be who you are first and foremost, but is there anything wrong with wanting to be so pretty that people think you're a GG?

Nope there is NOTHING wrong with it.
I agree with you.
Too many people get so sensitive about it. I have met gurls who pass and I have met some who didn't pass. Some were cool people and some were not. I never viewed it as "oh they cannot pass, so lets not talk to them".
I really think it is stupid of some people to gripe about if someone wants to try and do their best to pass. Not everyone is the same. But for some reason there are indviduals out there who feel that everyone should be the same, feel the same, and act the same. It is just not going to happen. There is diversity for a reason.

My advice like what you had stated too.....be yourself. People should not let others get them down.

[Angel.Marie76]

Absolutely not. However, there are maybe a handful here who could really pass in public. As Gilbert and Sullivan said "She may very well pass for 43 in the dusk with the light behind her" Granted there are some GG's who are over 6 feet tall and weigh over 200# with size 13 feet (otherwise we would all run around naked without the clothes made for them) but as it is in the TS community, a vast majority of post-op TS's still look manly. The ones you don't notice are the ones who "pass".

The mission of "passing" is to look drop dead gorgeous. It is a high target and when people ask if we think they can pass (judging from a picture) the answer should be "probably not" but the best answer is "if you really want to and try really hard." and that is what we should do, try really hard

In just reading through many of these responses, I can say that many of them do ring true into the realities of, at least, MY life. I can hope, cross my fingers, wish upon falling stars and so on, but there's go guarantee that I'll 'pass' as a beautiful woman, but rather just continue to be who I feel I want to be. Again, as many of the other messages in the passing threads say, there are many who are along the lines of 'Wow! Heck Ya!' and then plenty of the folks who try and speak from their own experiences and understandings (Their hearts, if you will). It's true though, with the right lighting, camera position, perspective and so on, many many people can look quite beautiful. Many GGs out there can also set themselves up just the same. Beautiful on film, even in person, but if what you see is but a shallow shell of a being, and that which lies below that surface is nothing more than a sulking, depressed, or bitter person, then 'beauty', in many people's eyes, is not complete.

I have a belief, myself alone, that my energy that I exude IS beautiful, caring, warm, and understanding. When I hold myself that high, then I FEEL beautiful, inside and out. When I go through the effort to dress in pretty clothes, put on what feels like an inch of makeup, and look at myself in the mirror, I feel more and more like the pretty woman I've wanted to be for quite some time. When I see that woman in the mirror, I do, indeed, feel that wish, that hope, that the public at large might see past what ever remnants of a man might show through and see the woman that's been fighting for years for the right to show herself proudly. Sadly, I know there are far more calloused beings on this planet that can't even seem to conceive of TG individuals, and just have it in their brain to shat upon us because they think it's the right thing to do. When those thoughts come around and tear me down from my pedestal, yes it hurts, but it shows me, painfully, that I'm not strong enough yet on the inside to believe so highly of myself on the outside.

The point of my response is that I think it's fine to state from your own perspective that [soandso] is beautiful and might plausibly pass as a woman, and that, in a related manner, that person may feel that inner beauty may be their belief. That's fine with me, and it shows a balanced perspective. I think it's more important to be happy with yourself inside before you can be so very happy with yourself on the out. Even more so, I'd say, with the more youthful CDers and TG/TS folks here. I have a son, and while he's young, I know that the 'proper' encouragement is often the best form of flattery and appreciation.

[Nicki B]

I agree with you.
..........

My advice like what you had stated too.....be yourself. People should not let others get them down.

But surely - people saying that, is what Violet is objecting to?


You seem also to be suggesting that people are being criticised?

[TSchapes]

Be who you are first and foremost, but is there anything wrong with wanting to be so pretty that people think you're a GG?

Like it or not passing seems to be the Holy Grail for the TG community. But, each person has their own goal or idea as to what is passing.

At last year's SC Conference, there was a seminar on "The 10 Fastest Ways to be Read". Some of ways mentioned we never talk about here, like how you would eat in a restaurant, or how you should stand. The class was SRO BTW.

This year at SCC there will be a round table discussion (at least they are talking about having one) on to "Pass or Not to Pass".

Something that has always pushed me to blend in or pass as well as I can, is I like the experience of being treated like a woman. I have found that the better I blend in, the easier it is for others not to think about what I really am and just relax. Is this valid? Is this necessary? Probably not, but that's how I feel.

So no I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to look as pretty as you can. But it's OK too if that's not your thing and I think that is why you may see those types of replies on this board.

Everyone is just trying to figure out where they fit in and how.

-Tracy

[kellycan27]

For me passing is attitude. It's not just a matter of others thinking I pass or not,it's what I think. If I am out there doing my thing and I feel comfortable and confident... I pass. I don't really give a rat's hiney what others think.
Nothing wrong with trying to look like the real deal here either. I feel like a girl,so why not try and look like I feel. Sure I want to look pretty..who doesn't,but here again it's not because I feel that I have to look a certian way in order to pass general muster. If I believe I look good, I feel good and if I feel good, I think that I project that.
I am passed having my feelings hurt by some jerk reading me and making comment, because chances are I myself might just be thinking... What are you laughing at? I wouldn't be caught dead being seen with you to begin with. ATTITUDE GIRLS!

[Mirani]

CD / Trans person says "Do I pass?"
=
GG says "Does my bum look big in this?"

I believe it is difficult to tell the difference between someone who wants an honest answer and someone who wants their ego massaged (and nothing wrong with that).

Some are quite obvious that they want the ego massage when they say "Please be kind" . . . . quite often this follows a picture post asking for an opinion.

It is quite nice that many people here are kind and want to make others feel good about themselves and so dont say the truth but find something positive to say.

But we all know the real truth without needing to ask anyone else . . . .

[tricia_uktv]

Of course not and we are all different! But I think the post is right. Its about being yourself and having the confidence to be yourself first. If you happen to pass and want to pass then thats a brilliant spin off. Deep down I would like to pass more but that isn't the most important thing to me.

As an aside, to dress in the first place you need to be able to accept that initially it will be almost impossible to pass and live with the consequences.

[CharlotteW]

Thinking about the big question "do I pass" and politically correct responses, I recall my time as a member of a pro photographers internet forum some years ago. Often someone would ask "what do you all think of this pic" and nearly everyone would answer positively. Perhaps one person would say "great shot but...[blah yada blah] yeh great shot". That straight-talker was invariably British and the American members didn't always appreciate it for some reason.
Sometimes, someone would ask "hey whats with all this 'great shot' twaddle, why not tell the truth?" After which we would have a few days of relative honesty until the PC 'infection' got a hold again.

In my opinion, very few of us (perhaps just 1% of us) actually pass as women. A few come very close but most of us simply don't have the bone structure or the fashion choice and make-up skills to cover our maleness. SO if it's OK with everyone, I'll respond honestly in future. Of course I wont ever be nasty, just honest.

[Nicole Erin]

Really for me, the few times I have responded to photos, if I see something that I know would help I will mention it. "The hair is not quite right for your age..." "The outfit makes you look too old..."
See that way, even if they don't have much change at beauty or passing, at least they can consider ways to improve and make the most of what they DO have. I am no expert but if they ask opinions I try to offer.

As far as flat out telling someone they don't or can't pass I would never do that, I am sure I have plenty of shortcomings...

...I must confess that when I see a "Do I Pass" or "Am I Pretty" thread from a girl who is hopeless, rather than hurt her feelings, I've just ignored them. It would probably be nicest to send a private message with the brutal truth.

OH my gyod! I know you were not trying to be funny but this had me rolling!
YOu know you can kind of set a tone in your own head when reading, like what the person might sound like... I just "heard" total seriousness..

"would be nicest... ...brutal truth" I can hear the brutal truth PM's now -
"I see that you are trying very hard to look good but in reality, you are hopeless. Even Jesus Christ would laugh at how you look"

[KateC]

I rather have the brutal honesty than PC or BS answers.. at least then people won't be misconceiving themselves and going out thinking they can pass and start to flirt with guys or something then get punched in the face..

[Marilynn]

There's an active "Am I Too Tall?" thread going on now. Every answer is positive. Now I'm the same height, and I love wearing heels, but in the past I have seen CDers say that tall trannies who go out in high heels and short skirts draw attention to themselves and make things worse for the community. If you're going to a tranny-friendly club to dance, then it doesn't matter, but I can see the point of the "blending-in" CDers. Tall women do tend to wear low shoes, and "mature" women do tend to wear longer skirts and dresses, so if it's passing you want, then you should wear size-age-appropriate clothing.

Maybe there should be a flag available for posts that say "Honest answers please" or "Reinforcement please."

[LA CINDY LOVE]

Hold on!! I will always say this cause I feel its true.. Photos don't tell squat on how someone could pass in public yet people keep posting "do I look good enough to pass" threds.. You can be the most georgeops babe in a photo.. From certain angles.. And I play the game.. I look way better in photos at certain anles that ido in person...

But if you walkin into the mall like a football player guess what... Your not going to pass.. Or if you go into a store and act like your tryng to hide something by lurking around and hiding.. People are drawn to that.. Not passing!!

So even the most marginal looking GG passes because of one thing!! An attitude that says she is a woman and belongs there dressed as she is.. And that can't be determined from a photo!! So yeah you ca look just beautuiful but no one is going to know if you pass until you do a run through the mall....

I have all ways felt that those Cd's who post a photo then ask us if they pass were misleading us and I have to say that some of us who replay were misleading them with there replay.

I have look at some of the photos and some of the replay and ask my self what are they looking at....what do they see....if that CD goes out in public they are going to get read.

All of us CD know if we can pass or not and when we post a photo and ask if we can pass we all ready know the answer....just because they say you can pass by your photo dose not mean you can pass in out in public.

Passing is all about attitude......ether you have it or you don't.


LA CINDY LOVE

[windycissy]

Really for me, the few times I have responded to photos, if I see something that I know would help I will mention it. "The hair is not quite right for your age..." "The outfit makes you look too old..."
See that way, even if they don't have much change at beauty or passing, at least they can consider ways to improve and make the most of what they DO have. I am no expert but if they ask opinions I try to offer.

As far as flat out telling someone they don't or can't pass I would never do that, I am sure I have plenty of shortcomings...



OH my gyod! I know you were not trying to be funny but this had me rolling!
YOu know you can kind of set a tone in your own head when reading, like what the person might sound like... I just "heard" total seriousness..

"would be nicest... ...brutal truth" I can hear the brutal truth PM's now -
"I see that you are trying very hard to look good but in reality, you are hopeless. Even Jesus Christ would laugh at how you look"

Give me a little credit! I would never send such a thoughtless PM to a total stranger...no, something more along these lines: "Sweetheart, you couldn't pass at midnight in a coal mine" or how about "Other than your wig, your makeup and that dress, you look so like a woman!"