J,
If your relationship is such that you need to visit a counsellor, how could you think it was a matter that wouldn't be raised?
The fact that she wasn't able to mention it with you present does point to communication issues between you - how easy do you make it for her to be open when you are there? And how could you make it easier for her, rather than resenting this?
Nicki
[SIZE="1"]Moi?[/SIZE]
Originally Posted by JaytoJillian
The more information you are putting out here the more obvious it is that you two need counselling. Whether or not the counsellor is in her own failed relationship is a red herring, you need to focus on fixing your own and get over this "he did, she did", stuff.
You don't have to have been born female to enjoy being a girl
I can imagine you felt your space violated and invasion of privacy when the counselor asked you this question, along with feeling humiliated and embarrassment and see where you need other counseling to handle your marriage counseling.
First though, one thing not to worry is that a mental health professional is not allowed to disclose information (patient privacy act) with other people. So what will be discussed between you three will stay between you three.
Tough situation you are in for sure.....You can choose to deny it, or you can choose to tackle it head on.
Usually the need for a marriage counselor shows there's a lack of communication in a relationship, fear and mistrust - as mentioned again above, you may need help from another counselor, unfortunately no one else here can solve this issue for you. My advice would be to listen to yourself, get some quiet time to yourself and write out your thoughts of where you want to go with this and how it will benefit you.
I agree. Your wife, in a counseling situation (in this case a marriage counselor, but even if it was a psychologist, for instance) has every right to bring it up if she feels it is something bothering her/impacting her feelings negatively. Honestly, I don't think she needed to give you a head's up of "oh by the way, hunny, we talked more about your crossdressing today. I wanted you to know". That's definitely not necessary. Marriage counseling is to help fix/resolve the relationship issues. That's hers. She has that right.
"Oh f*ckkk!! Chick's a dude!" - from textsfromlastnight
me: I wonder what it'd be like to play golf en femme.
wifey: It's hotter and sweatier.
Couple of thoughts hun, which this might be backing up a bit on some of the notes I've read here...
1) I would be very upset being blindsided by queries in regards to my crossdressing / transgendered preferences in a therapy session if I had not been prepared for it in advance. I know that, in my own therapy sessions, my councilor brings up questions to me that catch me off guard (just yesterday!) and I'm not always prepared to answer. Shooting from the hip isn't always a safe response and recovering from such a situation with: 'If you would like to talk about my crossdressing in relation to our couples counseling, then I feel I should be best prepared to properly answer queries in a logical and straightforward manner..' or something along those lines. There is nothing wrong with asking for a little leeway IF you truly plan to work through the issue in an educated and informative manner.
2) Almost in contradiction though, depending on how 'out' you are, you might want to be prepared for this kind of battering from folks in regards to your dressing. Having answers off-handedly often helps diffuse a bomb before it goes off.
3) If this councilor is already biased, watch out for yourself. Start asking the therapist him/herself if she's in an appropriate mindset to be able to diffuse this situation to the best of their abilities. Having this person seemingly already on the side of your wife might put you a little bit on the defensive by default, just make sure that they're on par with what you want from them yourself, or recommend an unbiased and fresh third-party.
4) I would caution you in lashing out with the observations in regards to your wife's interactions with others right-off the bat, or, even, for your benefit, meet with this therapist individually yourself and explain your case.
If your wife is not keen on the idea, be frank: 'If you're going to bring up my crossdressing to your therapist as part of the issues compounding the stability of our relationship, then give me the ability to be open to this therapist in an environment where I can be open and honest with them. You already have issues with my dressing, and it makes it hard to talk about them in detail with you; How do you think that makes me feel when I have to talk about them in front of you to YOUR therapist??' (disclaimer: Don't quote me on that..)
Use that time, if you get it, to state your case quietly and concisely.
Best of luck hun!
Should I bring up the intimate e-mails that I know she's exchanged with a male neighbor? Or how just yesterday she mentioned that she was annoyed that this same neighbor ignored her as he walked past hand in hand with his wife? She started ranting about how he was weird, and how he must feel guilty. What's that all about? But if I probe and ask questions, she claims I am being ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
I would bring it up and i would also print those suckers off and store them someplace she has no idea of where. Sounds like she is cheating on you with the neighbor. I would definately bring it up. I have read your posts, you have your hands full with her. Myself, I would just lawyer up and end it. Nobody needs that kind of aggrivation.
It is unusual for a counselor to provide individual therapy and couples therapy at the same time. There are ethical issues, and possibly this counsellor has crossed the line. A good counselor will offer to refer the 'couple' to another counselor.
Therapy is not divorce court. It should not be a trading of transgressions and oneupmanship. Bring up the email if that is an issue for you. Your wife apparently uses your crossdressing as the club that trumps all else in a discussion or disagreement, as in "if she tolerates that, then you have to tolerate everything else". State in joint therapy that you want to discuss this. You both need to be prepared to discuss the issues and decide your own boundaries and tolerance, without holding that over the other.
Good luck!
Carin
I have gone on a journey in search if myself. If you find me before I return, please hold on to me until I get back.
Telling our Children
It should be encouraging that your wife is getting counseling to help her deal with her own issues. If accepting your crossdressing is an issue for her, then it would be expected that this would come up.
Many of us GG's don't have anyone that we can talk to about the stresses that come along with having a TG partner. Sometimes just being able to vent about things and having someone to brainstorm some solutions with helps elevate the stress and reminds us of why we stick around. this may be just the help she needs to finally accept your crossdressing.
good luck to you both.
Oh. ... Oh. So. Many. Issues.
Ok to start with - I would be very uncomfortable with this therapist. I would be uncomfortable walking into any situation where I felt that people had already pre-judged me to be a problem child. That alone is enough to prevent a lot of good things from happening in a clinical environment; which is why it is generally not considered to be the best standard of care for a therapist who is seeing one person on a one-to one basis to then see that person and their spouse for couples counseling. This is something of an ethical grey area, but it is definitely not considered to be a best practice. The accepted practice is to refer the couples counseling to another colleague.
If I were in this situation, I would talk to my wife and tell her that I am open to couples counseling, but that I am not open to counseling with her therapist. Explain why. "I feel like I am not on an equal footing, that you and her already have a relationship, and I feel like she thinks I am the problem coming out of the gate." or whatever else that you might feel. Then commit to finding another therapist. I would be lear about a referral from this woman, but you never know.
The fact that your wife's counselor is recently broken up - is of no consequence. Unless you are somehow responsible for her break-up, which I assume you aren't. Don't make a big deal out of it. In fact, never mention it again, it just makes you look petty and small, like you are looking for a reason to question her professional competence - and this is not a reason.
"Should I bring up the intimate e-mails that I know she's exchanged with a male neighbor?"
Does it effect your relationship? I know it would effect my relationship with my wife if she were carrying on some sort of amorous relationship with my neighbor, or a co-worker, or Sam the butcher. Some folks have open relationships and that works for them. If it bothers you, then you should bring it up. But you should not bring it up as a way to bludgeon your wife. "But you wear women's clothes" "Oh yeah? Well you're banging the neighbor!" I would suspect that this is more of a symptom of an unhappy marriage rather than a cause.
Seriously, I think you need a counselor. It sounds like you have a LOT of issues to work out, it sounds like you have been pretty unhappy for quite a while, and things are starting to come to a head... I would however be very leery of the counselor you have.
"I don't mind living in a man's world, as long as I can be a woman in it." — Marilyn Monroe
First let me congratulate you and your wife to be willing to go to therapy to better yourselves. It takes a lot of guts to look at ourselves and be willing to work on what needs fixing and to enhance what is working.
Therapists are like car mechanics if you dont like them or are uncomfortable with their services find another. You should however give it about 5 sessions before any decisions made.
Regarding couples versus one on one. If the the couple and the therapist want to work it out and help each other it will work. The minute the blame game starts or sides are taken that is damaging to therapy and a change must be made.
I went to a therapist and so did my wife. We asked both of them if we could do couple counseling. They both denied it saying that it is too easy to take sides. What are we in high school with taking sides and teaming up against each other.
My wife & I thought to do couple counseling and see the same therapist for one on one. We found an experienced gender therapist who also was an addiction specialist and family couple therapist. She agreed that it can work very well if we did this and keep the blame game and name calling to a minimum. My wife & I are down to once a month together after my monthly Tri-ESS meeting so we can sort out any feelings she has and any feelings I have as well.
We have worked hard at this and has not been easy by any means.
I have learned the following key to relationships.. Its all about accepting your partners feelings and acknowledging that you heard their feelings. Everyone has the right to their opinion and feelings WHETHER YOU THINK ITS RIGHT OR NOT. They have the right to own those feelings and express them. Being right or wrong really doesnt matter, Dont let your pride get in the way.
My wife is tolerant most of the time and loves me for who I am. She has however expressed her feelings that she thinks "Men in dresses" is creepy. She has every right to feel that way it is her opinion and her feelings.
I will never forget the very first line after the therapist said "hello" to us. You do realize that your husband is a crossdresser who cant be cured or healed & it will be part of his life till he dies. Then the therapist asked "Are you willing to be married to a crossdresser?" Wife responded 'Yes" Then the therapist said "OK lets save the marriage if both of you are willing"
That was 2 years ago and our relationship has never been better.
I actually prefer grey areas in relationships. Relationships are comprised of two people who are sometimes black and white or oil and vinegar. When black shifts towards white and white shifts towards black they create levels of gray and thats when the perfect blending of both individuals occurs and relationships can grow & strengthen by accepting each others colors (Feelings). Besides what salad is good with just oil or just vinegar.
I hope it all works out for you and address the pain which is actually causing the anger.
Petra
[SIZE="3"]Lovin everthing CD[/SIZE]
[SIZE="3"]Hey, Dont bother me I'm dressing.[/SIZE]
[SIZE="3"]I Feel like an actress in her greates role ever "LIFE"[/SIZE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I think that the best advice any has given is that the couples counselour needs to be some one else. I had a therapist and she had a therapist and mine was seen as my guy and hers was seen as her guy. The perception is already set that our guys are there to help build and protect the individual and not the couple. I would find it difficult to trust and believe in her guy or my guy all of a sudden being able to switch and become our guy. The perfect example of this was the counselour bringing up your crossdressing as an issue to the couple. That may have been an issue but the manner in which it was introduced wasn't correct. The first time the couples counselour meets with the couple the counselour needs to come with a blank slate and no agenda and then listen to the couple and in a trusting environment determine what the issues are for the couple. The process this counselour used creates resistance from the onset, the issues of betrayal that you feel are honest reactions to being betrayed and they are valid. The counselour should not have brought up the crossdressing as issue, because at the first meeting without having discussed anything the counselour should have been in the information gathering mode and determining what the issues were. I would highly recommend getting a third counselour for the couples therapy. The one you're currently using has apparantly been tainted by previous conversations with the wife and can't be effective for the couple. The trust violation alone creates issues and will impact effective counseling.
First of all, with respect to the failed relationship of the counselor herself: I know a counselor who tries very hard professionally, actively studies different approaches, spends a lot of time thinking about how to deal with different kinds of people. But her husband left. As you seem to feel that that renders such councilors incompetent or unqualified, how long should that relationship failure disqualify her from counseling other people? Permanently? Some number of years or months? Would it not, at the very least, depend upon the circumstances?
Remember, no matter what one does, one cannot control how someone else feels, only how one reacts to it. So the counselor might have, in her own relationship, have been applying admirable intra-relationship techniques. That things did not work for the counselor might not have been due to any factor that was reasonably within her influence.
In the case of the counselor that I know personally, it turns out that her ex is "living in his own world", and that she would have had to have been a neuro-biology expert secretly slipping medication into his food in order to have a chance of saving her relationship. Which, besides being implausible, would have been unethical.
The best counseling techniques in the world cannot "save" some marriages, if even one of the people involved is not interested or not capable. So you shouldn't be putting down the counselor for her own relationship having failed, not without having access to a lot more information about the circumstances, and not without having done enough professional counseling studying yourself to be able to evaluate the counselor's actions within the relationship.
Hesitating because the counselor had been acting one-on-one with your wife first, Yes, quite understandable.I agreed to go
But speaking as someone on the other side of the fence, trying hard to save my marriage, one of the great difficulties I have had is getting my wife to "buy in" to couples counseling. She agreed to go to "help the counselor fix your problems" -- to her it was all about me "being sick" (CD being only a small part of that), and not about "our relationship is in trouble, let's do our best to see if we can shore it up". To her credit, she did speak openly when she was in the sessions... but she was still perceiving them as something she was putting up with for my sake, not for our sake.
As far as I am concerned, you have three choices at this point: you can continue to go to joint with the present counselor acting in the dual role (not a recommended practice), or you can willingly agree to joint counseling with a different "couples" counselor -- or you can give up on the relationship, in which case you might as well get out sooner rather than letting it drag on. Either you are still willing to work on the relationship (and it will be hard work), or you are unwilling (e.g., been "burnt" too often and are stuck unable to get past what went on in the past). And if you are unwilling or "too stuck" to be able to move forward, then unless you enjoy being miserable, your relationship is already unfixable and you might as well admit that rather than just thinking it in your heart. (But you'd be surprised at the progress two people can make, even if a lot of "bad things" have happened, if the two people want things to get better, even if the two people have no idea how they could possibly get to a better place from where they are starting from.)
IMO your wife had every right to bring up your dressing to the counsellor but it would have been nice if she had told you that before you went for couples counselling. I do believe if you are working on your relationship that you should not hold back on anything thus it would be appropriate for you to talk about the intimate messages your wife has with the neighbor. All this has to be done from the perspective of wanting to heal your relationship though not from revenge. When my wife and I were seeing a counsellor for our relationship and things started going good between us that the cd desire came on strong and I told my wife and then the counsellor
My Father is male, my Mother is female that makes me 50/50!
Much good advice above this reply ! One thing I would add is that if you know about the therapist's personal life then either they are opening up about themselves way too much or you know her personally. Neither is good for couples therapy. You might want to consider a new therapist. BUT do not give up on the counselling !
What she said.
"I don't mind living in a man's world, as long as I can be a woman in it." — Marilyn Monroe
You've always struck me as a bright guy. The only way I can see this fooling you is if you were married right out of high school, or, you are not as quick on the uptake as I thought.
It's clear that she is seeking attention elsewhere. Both, the neighbor and your wife are acting as if something has already taken place.
J2J,
From reading how she has treated you in the past and the huge "War and Peace" novels written broad across the wall...
You need to lawyer up and give her the hook.
She did not go to a counselor to gain marital comity. She went to get a bludgeon to beat you with. Straight up definition of a passive aggressive harridan. Bitter, controlling, with ill will her intent. You are nothing more than a wallet to her.
IMO, you are confusing your marital duty to her with a love that has departed, never to return. The cat is out of the bag and will continue such until the entire sabre tooth is exposed. She does not evince ANY behavior that she cares for you. Her bitterness will infect you at a low level until it lodges in your life in other ways. You hang in there hoping for a sea change and probably to forestall further exposure. You're a great guy/gal and need to bite the bullet and move on. I am not sitting there in your pumps KNOWING. This opinion is based on following your story from electron to electron. Good fortune to you
De Oppresso Liber,
Huntress
Right!
Clearly the matter gives her some concerns and maybe she was unable to say anything in front of you, for fear of what you would say. if your both making an effort to go to councilling then it really best to have everything out in the open, and try to get a work around for both of you.
Councillors are well aware many men are TV's/CD's and therefore should be able to help your wife at least understand this desire, if not help her accept it. if you both want to remain together, then you both need to learn to give and take, and that mean you being the Jay she married when she needs that, over the jill you want to be. workround and resolves can be found, but only if both work toward them.
Whats the point of councilling, if your Transvestism is the root of the problem but not mentioned at the table!
Good luck to both of you!
Cya
Tracy
[SIZE="2"]The nail that stands out the most, is the one that is hammered down the hardest![/SIZE]
Should your wife have outed you to the counsellor? In my opinion, absolutely not. Not without your permission or when you where there.
Should the counsellor be aware > Definitely. CD has a huge effect on any marriage and if the counsellor is going to help, they have to know things like that. I don't nean to be rude or a smart ass, but isn't that kind of a 'no brainer'? Or maybe I'm not understanding the situation completely.
I know this to be true, because I am living the same life. With one exception...mine is much worse, and she truly does have ill intent.
Sadly,
Pink
Your wife had every right in my opinion to talk about your crossdressing to a councilor. This by the way is not outing in the traditional sense. A councilor is obligated to keep confidence. It is kind of strange for you not to expect she would tell a councilor. Whether or not you are fighting over your crossdressing, it is foolish to think crossdressing is not one of the major crisis in your marriage, don't kid yourself it is. Not that in cant be worked out mind you. Indeed it can and if you work together it will.
Living the life I choose!
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