CD vs intimacy bribes / blackmail ?

[sandra-leigh]

[SIZE="4"]Please avoid specifics and TMI[/SIZE] (TMI == Too Much Information)

(This may at first merely seem to have been posted merely to be provocative, but if you keep reading, you will see there is a real point.)


Suppose you were offered (sincere) sexual bribes to not cross-dress, "Do not cross-dress for <time-period> and I will <something sexual> with (or for) you". Probably many of us would be willing to skip a day in return for the certainty of some favourite (or previously denied) act -- but (keeping your response clean!!) how much cross-dressing would you be willing to give up for how little? For the purposes of this part of the discussion, assume that "bribe" refers to something "extra", not to a denial of whatever you are experiencing now.

Now, the flip side of the same question, the side that I suspect more people might relate to: suppose your SO were to attempt to use "sexual blackmail" to get you to stop crossdressing. Perhaps something like, "I am uncomfortable / hate the idea of you cross-dressing, and in future, each time you do it, I will deny you <sexual act> for <time period>". Or perhaps the more gently phrased but same effect, "When you cross-dress, I feel like a barrier is put up between us, and it takes me <time period> without you cross-dressing before I am comfortable doing <sexual act> with you". In the extreme case, of course, there is "If I ever catch you cross-dressing or find out you've been cross-dressing, then I promise you that that will be the end of our sex life!!" How much cross-dressing would you be willing to give up in order to maintain your current relationship?


You might be wondering what triggered such questions. As I rebuild my relationship with my wife, it seems likely that we will be expressing comfort zones and negotiating boundaries in several areas, including my CD / TG status, which she is more uncomfortable with than I previously knew. So without any malice or ill intent in the process, I might be faced with questions of how much CD + TG I am willing to trade off against physical and emotional intimacy. And I don't presently know the answer to that.


I have also asked my therapist for a referral to a gender therapist, with the intent of helping me analyze more closely my gender boundaries. I know what I feel to be true of myself, but I don't know that I have been asking myself the right questions... and there have been some parts of me that I have avoided asking myself questions about. And in thinking to myself of what kinds of questions the therapist would be likely to ask in order to determine the extent to which my feelings are part of my identity, I realized that an obvious question was "What would you prepared to give up in order to express this identity you feel?"

Example: over the last couple of years, I have more and more been getting the urge to wear skirts (not necessarily anything too fancy or too colourful) at work. I recently investigated our official employment policy and found out that it is within the bounds of the policy and that my work is prepared to cooperate, especially if I work with them to smooth the transition. I have been feeling more and more that I should go "public" (no longer hiding it from neighbours or work) because doing otherwise is forcing me to bury what I really am (for logistical reasons, and for the fear that someone might see me outside work and suddenly it would become An Incident that has to be hurried reacted to instead of there being a plan in place). Hypothesize that my wife's boundaries on that matter are "No way, Jose'!"... how much of what I feel internally is what i need to do, am I prepared to trade off for domestic harmony?

Now, obviously no-one other then I can say what I am prepared to live with, but I know a lot of other people have been faced with similar issues, and I wonder how different people have handled these matters in real life. Saying "If your SO doesn't fully accept you as CD / TG, then they don't fully accept you, and you should get out of the relationship" of course has some truth to it... but humans are not always rational, and giving up a long relationship when there is still caring between the two of you, is not a black-and-white decision.

[Joanne f]

That is a brave question as one can imagine what a lot of the answers would be on here so i will answer the last part first and work up .
I think that in a relationship it is unrealistic to expect any SO to fully accept everything that the other partner would want to do so i have never thought that the answer should be ,if they don`t like what you do leave them,that is no answer that is a cope out.
So i am glad to hear that you and your wife are willing to compromise i especially hear that you are willing to as this sends out a good message to the wife`s/so who read your post.
Relationships are about working together and yes it can be very hard when one has problems accepting what the other wants to do but i think that you have found an exciting way of working it out and i really can`t answer the first part of your question as it is one of those "you will never really know until you have to do it"questions but what i have found is that the more boundary's you brake with you Cding the more you want to brake so it can become a bit impossible to know what you need from what you want if that makes any sense , anyway good luck on your new adventure with your wife i hope it works out for you both.

[Sophia de la luz]

I enjoyed the thoroughness of your post and questioning.

Generally, I regard sexual blackmail on parr with someone using food to extort what they want from another person. It's easy to see that using food is immoral behavior. Our culture's curious attitude toward sex and power, and womens' reliance on a strategy of helplessness, has created an interesting phenomena.

Now if it was a game, a BDSM activity, then it would be "contractual", and just.

If my wife promised me endless sex (it would have to be endless as we are pretty involved in this area) if I stopped dressing, I would laugh outright. If she promised to stop loving me unless I stopped dressing, I would urge her to probe more deeply her inner world, and find a better way to communicate her needs.
If she offerred specific favors in trade for specific outfits (wanting me to push boundaries), that might go somewhere... i.e. win/win.

In the context of marriage, people often turn their love into a negotiation. The focus shifts from loving one another to controlling one another. Shifting out of this pattern and showing up for unconditional love is a worthwhile pursuit. IMHO

[Bev06 GG]

In the context of marriage, people often turn their love into a negotiation. The focus shifts from loving one another to controlling one another. Shifting out of this pattern and showing up for unconditional love is a worthwhile pursuit. IMHO

Ditto and well said Sophia. There are lots of things people use to get their own way, almost like a child spitting its dummy out and having a temper tantrum until you give he or she what they so desired. Some adults have never actually grown up and still use those sort of tactics as weapons against someone that they supposedly love. Whatever happened to unconditional love. Even if I hated my partners dressing I'd never resort to blackmail and sexual favours to get my own way because at the end of the day thats - CONTROL and I tend to prefer men who have abit more gumption than to give into blackmail. That said negotiation isnt all bad and can often difuse potentially volatile situations and stale mates.
Take care
Bev

[Joni Marie Cruz]

Hi Tessleigh-

This is a very interesting and well thought out post, yours that is, not necessarily mine. I'm sure it's going to stimulate a great deal of soul searching. FWIW, to me, the granting or withholding of sexual favors of any sort, whether it's something "special" or the usual intimacy one would expect in a marriage or other relationship is simply blackmail, plain and simple. Not to say that it doesn't go on in all sorts of overt and covert, subtle and not so subtle ways in every relationship.

But to make it explicit that in order for someone to refrain from, in this specific case, crossdressing, in order to receive sexual favors is a form of coercion. If the two people involved are really trying to work out a way to accomodate one another in regard to this issue, then operating from a position that one person holds all the trump cards in the game is not the way to do it.

Hugs...Joni Mari

[Kathi Lake]

Wow! This is definitely not a softball question. I may even have to think about my reply, darn you!

Then again, you know what? I don't need to think at all (good, because I'm not used to it and it makes my head hurt when I try). It all boils down to this (for me, anyway); Crossdressing good. Blackmail bad.

I can definitely see this being used on a poor guy right after the shock has worn off his stunned bride, and the SO has tried anger, cold silence, badgering, bargaining and other methods. If the situation devolved to this, I would say that the couple was in immediate need of counseling. Using tactics like these are not only not right, they are hurtful to both parties.

I hope that my wife would never stoop to this level of manipulation to get what she wants. We have tried to give and take here and there so both of us can live within a set of boundaries that are acceptable to both.

Kathi

[Ralph]

In the context of marriage, people often turn their love into a negotiation. The focus shifts from loving one another to controlling one another. Shifting out of this pattern and showing up for unconditional love is a worthwhile pursuit. IMHO

Absolutely. Just for example, a response that might open the door to a better dialogue about the nature of crossdressing could be "If it means that much to you, I'll stop just because you want me to and because I love you that much. You don't need to promise me anything or threaten me with anything. But you need to know that my dressing is not just some passing whim that I'll forget about or get over; it's an overwhelming urge that I have known since {time period} and grows stronger the more I do without. I will do this for you because I love you, but it will take a hard toll on me emotionally and psychologically."

See if she still insists on winning the game when you make her realize how much it will really cost both of you. I also have to add that I do not advocate emotional blackmail; I wrote the above on the assumption that it is all true.

[sandra-leigh]

a response that might open the door to a better dialogue about the nature of crossdressing could be "If it means that much to you, I'll stop just because you want me to and because I love you that much.

(Speaking as the original poster):

Unfortunately, my personal and medical history strongly suggest that the "price" for me to stop dressing completely would be the indefinite continuation of my depression.

Odd as it may sound, my GP (general practitioner) strongly recommended that I start dressing more obviously at work (that is, stop hiding my CD + TG and start treating it as a part of my everyday life.) He's been puzzled as to why my depression wasn't responding to normal courses of treatment, and when I finally told him about my CD + TG, he said roughly "Ah yes, of course, it makes sense now: your brain has been in conflict ever since you were young -- your conscious didn't know about the problem, but your brain knew!"

So I know I have a "rock", that stopping completely is not one of my options, not if I am to stay healthy enough to be a meaningful partner. But there's a wide expanse in the middle.


I should indicate that my wife and I have not sat down and talked about this issue since we started trying to put our relationship back together again. Being the over-analytical type, though, and having listened to and respected what she was unhappy about, I am thinking / feeling myself out about where my boundaries are.

[LisaM]

Tess-Leigh,

I think that my answer will be different than many others.

I consider myself somewhat assexual. I don't know if that is really the term that defines me but it wouldn't bother me at all if sexual favors were withheld from me outside of the fact that it would be difficult for my SO to find sexual release.

I really wouldn't care if I engaged in them again. It's weird but I have always felt uncomfortable in sexual situations.

I go through the motions but I feel uncomfortable so denying me them would not be a problem. I addition, I don't crossdress that often---it has never been the focus of my gender issues.

Truly, I think it would be a bigger issue for the blackmailer than for me because I don't think I'd care.

[sissystephanie]

Normally I would never respond to blackmail of any kind! But if I were offered something that I/we had never done before, I probably would be willing to forgo dressing for a short time period!

Having said that, I told my wife I was a CD before we were married over 50 years ago. When she and I knew she was dying, she told me to "always be a good girl!" My point is that if your wife, or SO, is told upfront, there is not much likelyhood of any action to get you to change, blackmail or anything else. Either they will accept you "as is", maybe with some restrictions, or they will leave you right then.

In the case in point, a decision has to made. Is your love of your wife stronger than your desire to crossdress? If so, then you know how to answer her. If your desire to crossdress is the stronger of the two, then you have a real problem! Maybe a compromise can be worked out, but I wouldn't bet on it! I hope for the best for both of you! Please do communicate with your wife!!

[Nicki B]

It seems to me to be all about control of one partner, by the other - and if that's not something they both enjoy, it's a very bad (and damaging) basis for a relationship..

[Scotty]

I'm not one that responds well to blackmail, and if someone says they won't due something without a reaction then that's the way it would be - no sex.

But that would lead to a miserable relationship that would eventually build up so much resentment and lead to fights, divorce...

I guess I would say if you are transitioning and single, stay that way - perhaps it's not fair to involve someone unless they know full well BEFORE going into a relationship what they are getting into..you see it all the time here....

My SO is cool with me, I don't cross any boundaries and her male side goes about as far so it's all good...open communication.

[Ralph]

Odd as it may sound, my GP (general practitioner) strongly recommended that I start dressing more obviously at work (that is, stop hiding my CD + TG and start treating it as a part of my everyday life.)

Wow! Where can I find a doctor to write me a prescription ("1 skirt / 12 hrs a day") requiring me to crossdress for the sake of my health? I don't have a choice Mrs. Ralph, doctor's orders!

Sorry to make light of your situation. I do hope you and your wife are able to work out this and the other issues (or so I gather from your comments) that are troubling you; I'm sure marriage grief is contributing to the depression problem as well. And figuring out your own boundaries is absolutely the best start before you can tell her where she can put hers.

[dawnmarrie1961]

Tess,
As I read your question I honestly could relate to the first part because it seemed like there was too much "fantasy" involved and I'm not into the "fantasy. I have to deal with the "reality". The second part of your question hit home though. I never realized how true the saying was that "in the bedroom it the woman who is in charge." and you both can't be the woman. Even in a lesbian relationship there is one who acts as the "male" and the other dons the role of the "female". When I could no longer physically be the man, no matter how hard I tried and failed to perform. I incorrectly assumed that my wife would be OK with doing things a different way. And although she extremely enjoyed all of the things I was ultimately able to do for her pleasure. She was equally uncomfortable with the fact that she was unable to make me feel equally pleasured. I tried to reassure her that I did feel satisfied. But she was still discouraged. She knew that I was slowly changing , over many years, that was physically obvious and emotionally more than she could take. Finally we just stopped having sex all together by mutual agreement. What may have started out as a "fantasy" for both of us had become a hard "reality". Two woman in her bedroom just wasn't right for her. Eventually two woman in the house was too much also and our marriage finally ended. We still consider each other close friends. I wish we could be together but I know that isn't going to happen. She has a boyfriend now. A man in the bedroom. She's back in charge. And I have.....her as a friend ....and four dogs, plus two cats. ( Looking on the bright side . At least I have two PUSSIES.)

Be safe. Be smart.