GG Envy

[Tamara Croft]

The best 'revenge' if you need it, is to simply look better in thier clothes than they do!

The best revenge? what are you? 5? grow up!

[kellycan27]

QUOTE=Tamara Croft;1818837]The best revenge? what are you? 5? grow up![/QUOTE]

[skirtsuit]

Grow up?
Learn to read!

I don't need any revenge - I look great in a dress.

All the Best,
SS

[Andy66]

Okay, here's the other side of the coin, just for argument's sake... or I should say one of the many sides of the coin.

Women can be a flaming cross-dresser and no one will think a thing about it.

That may be true to some extent, in some circumstances.
Those of us who are really good at passing (like my buddy Ze for example) have problems with society similar to what MTF CDs experience.
But GGs who are masculine to any lesser degree (like me) can end up frustrated because our clothing is so well accepted that it's virtually impossible to express our masculine side. It's a lot easier for a male to express his female side, and even feel a little thrill and naughtiness doing it if he wants to. A little eyeliner or blouse will do it. Most women just can't do that. We would have to really go all out (it's all or nothing) to be acknowledged as masculine at all.
...But I don't act hateful to innocent GMs because of it.

[Leslie Langford]

Well that's absolute rubbish, but even if it was true, who's fault is that? Y'all come on this board complaining and whinging like a bunch of 5 year old brats, instead of going out and wearing what the hell you like... oh.. woe is me, I can't wear a dress.. oh woe is me, women can wear trousers... boo fricking hoo, get the hell over it and do something about it, or stop whinging!!

...and while I can't speak for the others here, I for one have gone out in public en femme over the last 2 years including dining out, shopping for women's clothes, shoes, lingerie, and make up, trying out clothes in women's fitting rooms, interacting with other female customers and SA's etc. and generally having a great time of it while being treated like "one of the girls".

That's great as far as it goes, and I'm loving every minute of it, but at the same time I feel as if this also forces me to be in disguise (as it were) to both express my feminine side and be accepted in this manner. In other words, I can't help but think that these GG's are so focused on the visual image of a woman that I present when I interact with them that they subconsciously treat me as some sort of honourary "girl".

This is quite different from them actually making the mental connection that, hey, there's really a guy underneath those femmy duds, which somehow I don't think they do. Probably the same type of mental NIMBY compartmentalization that will allow the average GG to be O.K. with the overall concept of M.T.F. cross-dressing as a means of gender expression for people like us, but when it hits closer to home and affects her son, husband, brother, or SO etc. - well, not so much then.

Like it or not, there is also still that ingrained cultural bias in the Western world that when a girl acts like a tomboy or favours male clothing, educational pursuits, or prefers more masculine sports, that is seen as a "good" thing as she is viewed as trying to emulate males i.e. to "better" herself. Sure, that's a bogus mind-set and not one I personally subscribe to, but it is what it is. A boy, however, who openly expresses his feminine side in the same manner and dresses in "girly" or androgynous clothing is still seen as being a "sissy" i.e. that's a "bad" thing, so not much societal support there. One only needs to read some of the postings here by our fellow CDer's who were accidentally discovered wearing girls' clothes by Mom or Dad while they were teens or pre-teens and how well that went over. I don't recall seeing too many complaints along those lines from young girls who prefer wearing boy's clothes because they are allegedly more comfortable and lower maintenance and being called to task for it as harshly.

And let's not forget that minor little detail commonly called "hate crimes", which the GLBT community is all too aware of, having been exposed to these far in excess of its actual numbers as compared with the general public. This alone acts as a very strong deterrent for a person who is openly and unashamedly male from wearing true women's clothing while presenting as a male.

Personally, I wouldn't want to meet a hairy, bearded, tattooed, and pierced 300 lb. biker with the requisite beer gut and who is O.D.ing on testosterone (and possibly liquour-fuelled as well) on a darkened street or in an alley while presenting as a male but wearing a frilly, lacy dress and 4' "f&%k me" pumps. Call me crazy, but, somehow I doubt that his first inclination would be to wish me a good evening seeing me dressed like this.

Somehow, I also don't think that a GG wearing a "boyfriend" jacket, a man's plaid shirt, dungarees, and construction boots etc. would elicit a similar response from said biker. More than likely, he'd actually offer her a ride on his "hog" instead.

No, this is not about whining and not having the b&lls to wear what we darn well please the way those courageous, pioneering pants-wearing GG's did before us. It is about the very real danger of flaunting society's "rules" and being beaten into a bloody pulp by some Neanderthal whose perceived masculinity we might appear be threatening simply by being ourselves.

[Andy66]

That's great as far as it goes, and I'm loving every minute of it, but at the same time I feel as if this also forces me to be in disguise (as it were) to both express my feminine side and be accepted in this manner. In other words, I can't help but think that these GG's are so focused on the visual image of a woman that I present when I interact with them that they subconsciously treat me as some sort of honourary "girl".

This is quite different from them actually making the mental connection that, hey, there's really a guy underneath those femmy duds, which somehow I don't think they do.

Nope, we're well aware that there's a GM body under those clothes. It's just generally accepted as the polite thing to do, to treat a person the way they appear to want to be treated: if you present as a woman we will treat you as a woman. If you present as a man we will treat you as a man. You lost me here, is that not what you want?

[kellycan27]

Nope, we're well aware that there's a GM body under those clothes. It's just generally accepted as the polite thing to do, to treat a person the way they appear to want to be treated: if you present as a woman we will treat you as a woman. If you present as a man we will treat you as a man. You lost me here, is that not what you want?

I think she's saying that she wants to wear the clothing, but doesn't like having to present as a woman to be accepted? Something like that. Just a guess really.

[Andy66]

I think she's saying that she wants to wear the clothing, but doesn't like having to present as a woman to be accepted? Something like that. Just a guess really.

That sounds like a really worthwhile goal for all of us to work toward, together, because we're all in the same boat.

[kellycan27]

That sounds like a really worthwhile goal for all of us to work toward, together, because we're all in the same boat.

Not me love. i am going in an entirely different direction than that. We are not all in the same boat. Kudos to him if that's what he wants.

[Andy66]

Not me love. i am going in an entirely different direction than that. We are not all in the same boat. Kudos to him if that's what he wants.

Aw, sorry to hear that, Kelly. You do what you gotta do.

I, on the other hand, have been fighting in my own little ways for LGBT rights for the past two decades. I believe it's important for us all to stand together because we're all we've got.

[kellycan27]

Aw, sorry to hear that, Kelly. You do what you gotta do.

I, on the other hand, have been fighting in my own little ways for LGBT rights for the past two decades. I believe it's important for us all to stand together because we're all we've got.

Awesome.. you go person!
Personally i am not waiting around til I am too old to enjoy my life for a group of people who are supposedly the same,but way too divided to mount an effective charge. Been there.. have the t-shirt. Ask around and you'll get your answer. Can't.. family,frinds,job. Don't want to, Don't care. I am happy being in the closet..heard em all. Can't expect acceptance if they can't accept themselves. I'll go the individual route.Props to you for your dedication. I'll wave at ya from the stands as you march past..if I am not too old to climb the steps.
TO THE OP, SORRY NOT TRYING TO HIJACK YOUR THREAD.
Kelly

[noname]

Well that's absolute rubbish, but even if it was true, who's fault is that? Y'all come on this board complaining and whinging like a bunch of 5 year old brats, instead of going out and wearing what the hell you like... oh.. woe is me, I can't wear a dress.. oh woe is me, women can wear trousers... boo fricking hoo, get the hell over it and do something about it, or stop whinging!!

Not my fault, I'm out every singe day of my life. Didn't expect that did you? So yes, I am doing something about it. ( Does that mean I can whine now? )

[Lidia_tv]

Depends to what degree of "wearing" we're talking about here; and where in the world we're talking.

Be careful not to generalize stuff like this.

I am not attempting to generalize. I mentioned the diffrent levels of acceptance in different societies. Not every society is liberal. So, the answers I get: Just do it - sound more like generalization to me. ANY level of dressing where I live would be seen as something wrong. Not everyone lives in States, ppl. There are other countries as well with different levels of acceptance. I just mention my experience, which, excuse me, may be different then yours.

[PetiteDuality]

I don't think it's like that.

Take a look:

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/board/m...ns-t56028.html

http://www.truejeans.com/blog/ask_ju...hould_i_1.html

http://designer.denim.in.th/article....g-womens-jeans

http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/130097 (look at the results)

However, I'd like to show more skin as a guy. Why can't I wear short shorts or show my belly as a guy without being labeled?

I'm quite sure that if I had sexier choices with male clothes the urges to dress wouldn't be as big as they are now.

[Lidia_tv]

Try doing it in Southeastern Europe.

[PetiteDuality]

Try doing it in Southeastern Europe.

Really?

[Rachel Morley]

Years ago I used to get somewhat frustrated when I would read news articles about female fashion where the latest trend would incorporate men's styles into women’s fashion. Like the "boyfriend fashion" we have now. It didn't seem fair because I thought I couldn't wear women' styles but, to be honest, I think they only reason it bothered me back then was because I wasn't dressing en femme enough. Now that I dress a lot more I don't care one way or the other if women's fashions integrate men’s styles as I get to wear anything and everything a woman might wear - and I can go out like it as well!

[TGMarla]

This is all so silly. It's just another of those whiny posts about the incongruity that exists between the genders and their clothing choices. Blah blah blah. Heard it all before. Many times.

Would you like it if men had the societal acceptance to wear dresses? Or does it go way deeper than that? Would you also like the societal acceptance to wear pretty bracelets and necklaces? Pantyhose? Heels? Long, pretty hair with curls in it? So you're saying that you want to look female? Would you also like society to accept guys sporting bras and breastforms?

When I crossdress, I do so because I like looking like a woman. I have no desire to look like a man in a dress or a skirt. I want others to perceive me as a female. And this is not because to do otherwise would invite finger-pointing and ridicule...we get enough of that already. If I only wanted to wear dresses around everywhere, I'd forgo the boobs and the hip pads.

So stop the whining. And if you want societal acceptance, start doing what Intertwined here is doing, and stop masquerading as a woman. Start running around as a man in a skirt, and do it proudly like there's nothing wrong with it. Otherwise, hang on to those breast forms and your hip pads, learn to tuck, and put some bucks into a nice wig.

[PetiteDuality]

When I crossdress, I do so because I like looking like a woman. I have no desire to look like a man in a dress or a skirt. I want others to perceive me as a female. And this is not because to do otherwise would invite finger-pointing and ridicule...we get enough of that already. If I only wanted to wear dresses around everywhere, I'd forgo the boobs and the hip pads.

Great. That's you. Not everybody is the same.

I'm not into the "guy in a dress" look either, but some people in this forum are.

I don't understand how can be demand for understanding when we criticize different styled within crossdressing. I've read a lot of BS like that against guys in dress, people that is into masking, the "I CD but I'm macho - not gay", CDs against TG, TGs against CDs, "your wife is so selfish and doesn't love you because she doesn't accept you", "you are so selfish and you don't love your wife because you are imposing your CD"... Too much judging in my opinion for a group that needs so much acceptance to go for.

Now, talking about myself: I think that the reason why I dress is because I used to be very insecure about my image when was much younger. I was a a short, chubby, weak and stutterer young boy but I looked great (back then - much less hair, much more petite, not muscular) as a woman. It made me feel much self confident back then.

Now I feel really good with my male image. I still enjoy my female image as well (although much less than before - I look too male in my opinion). I like to express myself as a sexy person.

Woman's clothes encourage sexyness. Man's clothes does not. I wish it would be different. Can't somebody just express a wishful thinking without being classified as a whiner?

[Lidia_tv]

I guess not

[Ze]

Hi Son did ya miss me lol...

Of course.

I bet you get sick of reading how gg's can wear what they like, or crossdress as men and get away with it... because I'm pretty sure ftm's have a tough time too...

Not sick as much as hurt. As if my own pain and suffering either 1) automatically doesn't amount to the same pain and suffering as an MtF, or 2) my pain and suffering doesn't exist.

Those of us who are really good at passing (like my buddy Ze for example)

You're a danged liar, Anne, but I'm likin' ya more and more.

Not my fault, I'm out every singe day of my life. Didn't expect that did you? So yes, I am doing something about it. ( Does that mean I can whine now? )

Congrats if you're out (no, I don't mean that sarcastically), but she was reacting to your comment on, basically, "my" troubles being less extensive than "yours." Feel free to whine, but just remember that I have the right to whine with equal or greater value (depending on the nature of your whine; directed toward CDing in general or how it's "easier" than mine). That's all we're getting at, m'dear.

I am not attempting to generalize.

Cool. Just had to check.

This is all so silly. It's just another of those whiny posts about the incongruity that exists between the genders and their clothing choices. Blah blah blah. Heard it all before. Many times.

Agreed, but it hit a nerve with me this time; i.e. the incongruity was being stated incorrectly. So, me being me, I had to say something.

start doing what Intertwined here is doing, and stop masquerading as a woman.

Intertwined is cool.

I'm not into the "guy in a dress" look either, but some people in this forum are.

Me! I go ga-ga for Scotsmen in kilts. Of course, I'll admit that's a whole different level of social acceptance...

Woman's clothes encourage sexyness. Man's clothes does not. I wish it would be different.

In general, I can agree with this. Women's clothes were designed simply for purposes of objectification; men's clothes were not.

But, I've come to realize that the States are going through a "sexy nerd" trend right now with younger men. Which is why I might subconsciously be gravitating toward that look.

Can't somebody just express a wishful thinking without being classified as a whiner?

There's nothing wrong with wishful thinking. But, there is something wrong with making awful generalizations about who has it "easier" when an individual hasn't gone through those experiences. If they haven't gone through the experience, they have no evidence to claim that said experience is easier.

I think some people in this thread are getting whining and wishful thinking confused. Wishful thinking is portrayed positively; whining is portrayed with anger and resentment. We'll never find equality in any sense if we continue those latter mindsets. See how quickly it created a generalized rift between MtFs, FtMs, and GFs in this thread alone?

[SirTrey]

Why the constant back and forth in thread after thread over who has it worse? Let's put it out there, some of you look like dudes in a dress and I have boobs and a beard (until I get My chest done in a few months)....We are ALL condemned and made to look like idiots by most of society, though we are actually (for the most part) highly intelligent, sane adults who either crossdress, are WITH crossdressers or trans people, or ARE transgendered.....That being said, we all face discrimination, we are ALL fighting a battle for acceptance, ie: we are pretty much ALL in the same boat....Cliche as it is, can't we all just get along???

[Gayle]

For non CD's it's just a matter of fashion, male or female. For CD's it's dressing like 'our' ideal of a smart woman adjusted for age and not always then.

The rot started in the 1860's for smart male attire. For females a lot more recently. A woman in a skirt or dress in high heels in a supermarket now turns all heads. The odd thing is the high street shops are full to overflowing with feminine sexy clothing, I wear them, chuckle. It can't be just CD's who buy them, there ain't enough of us. Mind you, I'm probably responsible for a dollar on the share price of Walmart, hah!

Gayle

[pattyv]

QUOTE=Tamara Croft;1818837]The best revenge? what are you? 5? grow up!

[/QUOTE]

Kelly-you are naughty!!!Mmmmh-like your new avatar.

[Alana65]

Why the constant back and forth in thread after thread over who has it worse? Let's put it out there, some of you look like dudes in a dress and I have boobs and a beard (until I get My chest done in a few months)....We are ALL condemned and made to look like idiots by most of society, though we are actually (for the most part) highly intelligent, sane adults who either crossdress, are WITH crossdressers or trans people, or ARE transgendered.....That being said, we all face discrimination, we are ALL fighting a battle for acceptance, ie: we are pretty much ALL in the same boat....Cliche as it is, can't we all just get along???

................I totally agree, Trey.