Are we genetically pre-disposed to be feminine?

[Charleen]

And the debate goes on. I can only speak for myself. As Granny Gray puts it, I yam what yam. I started at 3 or 4 walking (sliding) in my mothers pumps. I had to do it. no question. 56 years later I still have to do it. My answer is it's nomal for me as inside i know I was born with the wrong plumbing.
Nature or nurture? I really don't care at this point.
Can I live openly as Lily? Not at this time as I have to earn a living. On the other hand my hair and nails are long, and I wear the appropriate under garments. Off work I'm who I am dressing accordingly whether it's food shopping, going out, or just yard work ect..
All I'm doing is making the outside conform to the inside and when that happens I'm content.
Now how the unwashed see us is a whole 'nother bailiwick.

[Lorileah]

why would anyone choose to be ostracized and degraded? If it is a choice then we would choose not to have people call us names or look at us like we had three heads.

society chose for us, we didn't choose. In the great scheme of things there are no male/female adornments or attitudes. No one is born wearing pink or blue (which BTW has changed over time too). The rules as far as clothing and "behavior" are subjective ideas set by a patriarchal society. If it was a choice I'd choose to be the dominant not the submissive (sheesh another societal more). I have that ability. I could be the macho misogynistic jerk. That's easy. Being sensitive is harder.

you can choose to express yourself, and many here don't because of fear. that is the choice we are offered. sit down and shut up OR be who you are. it doesn't matter what you wear (I see eyes rolling all over the world right now). some here claim they are a whole different person when they dress. you aren't you just choose to act different. try being that person no matter what you have on. clothes do NOT make the man. the way you are raised makes the man. I am all for a matriarchal society, you always know who your mother is

[tricia_uktv]

We are all different, we all have different motivations. Surely we should jus celebrate that fact and be ourselves.

[MichelleP]

Okay here's my $0.02. I agree with Allie and Granny. My feminine inclinations go as far back as I can remember. They go back as far back as my mom remembered and my sister too. And yes, for that matter they go back as far as my dad remembered (Heck, everyone in my family remembers). It wasn't like they mistakenly wrapped me in a pink blanket one day when I was a baby and said "Ah crap we messed up, now he's transgendered and will go through life wishing he were a girl!"

On the other hand, my mom and sister were of the opinion, if he wants to be like a girl we won't discourage him.

Personally, I believe that there are those that believe that being transgendered is a choice and those that believe it is not. To each his own...

Michelle

[cassandra2601]

I agree with Michelle, to each his own! I also think it is important to look at the life cycle too.

When I started dressing, it was purely sexual. I got incredibly aroused and then it was done and I went back to male mode. Now it is more of a pleasure to dress, often without make-up, just womens clothing for hours at a time. I am very lucky that I have a SO who loves the whole aspect of my crossdressing including the intimacy which is very lucky.

I have read a lot around the subject - "my husband Betty" is quite interesting and I know the German referred to earlier about early SRS surgery.

I know that when I go for long periods without crossdressing it does affect my mood, my state of "happiness" and I would say my mental health. Whatever the reason, it is there and I cannot ignore it - so it is not a matter of choice for me.

I am a type A male and in blokey mode no-one would ever guess that I was a CD. And yet....

There is no simple answer, but at least this site allows us to express our thoughts and opinions without being ridiculed. Also, who would do this out of choice?

It also amuses me that women can wear anything without anyone batting an eyelid!

WHATEVER!!!!!!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

you can't choose what people think of you ever...it's impossible...can other people choose what you think about them? what you find acceptable?


we didnt choose to be who we are....we didnt choose for "society to not accept us"...

we do choose what to wear on a tuesday night and perhaps for many of us we are influenced by what society thinks of us...thats a shame because it limits you to what society dictates...i choose to live my one and only given life and there is nothing wrong with me....it's totally, completely, and utterly my choice.

There are 2 types of people in this world...people that think there are 2 types of people in this world, and people who don't..sorry

[Cheshire Gummi]

If you drink the genetic kool-aid then everything anyone does at any point in their life, regardless of its impact or validity, is because of a yet unverified genetic predisposition to a certain style of thought or personality.

That ideology is laced with dangerous innuendo. It implies that no one is personally responsible for anything and that nothing is truly valid humanity, because it's all just ones and zeroes that we can't control.

Genetics does one thing; it builds our bodies. We are is influenced to a point within our genetic code, but what we are not is a bunch of categories looking for a scientific label.

And, frankly, while we're on the subject, I'm tired of people trying to understand us when they can't even figure out themselves.

Tonight on CNN: Well, millions of people around the globe are still dying of AIDS, leprosy, and cancer, not to mention all the unresolved wars, natural disasters, and climate change, but hey, scientists recently discovered that people who prefer wearing wrist watches are genetically predisposed to wanting to know the time wherever they go! That's amazing, right guys?

Knowing why I want to dress like a girl will not cure AIDS or prevent cancer. So, ultimately, there are really only about two reasons for trying to find out what makes us tick.

One would be to say "Gee, look, it's not their fault" and the other would be to find some kind of "cure" for it. We don't need an excuse. It doesn't help us and it won't quiet the bigots; they don't hate us for a good reason in the first place, what makes you think reason will change their minds? And we sure as shit don't need a cure, because it's not a disease.

So what good is this information? What does this help or even prove? From what I read, it's all speculative.

And besides all that crap, this is only happening because of ****ING SPORTS! We live a life based around the notion that our gender is our own to decide. The only time one of us makes the news is when we're acting insane or we've done something illegal. But some glorified jogger with goofed genetics somewhere raises questions about vague and undefined rules and the universe stops and goes

I'm sorry to go on a rant, but I've had it with them putting us in a damn box. We're running out of land mass, food, and fresh water and you want to tell me all the subtle ways that I'm different?

Amazing. Who gives a shit?

[AllieSummers]

Gummi,

I guess you got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

This is a crossdresser's site and we discuss things that are related to crossdressing. If you want to talk about cancer or world peace then maybe you are on the wrong site. While all these things do affect the world and they are probably a much bigger issue than crossdressing I'm not on here to change the world. I'm on here to discuss an important topic related to crossdressing.

The point of my post was not to label anyone or tell anyone the way it is. I posted it to get some opinions on the topic. Whether you agree or disagree doesn't make any difference. I respect your opinion on the topic, not how it relates to world hunger.

What I would like to unlock is the secret to the possible explaination of why I got started, why I have evolved into what I am, why I am so happy with it, why I have a very supportive family, etc.

I just want to help other people that are trying to figure this out for themselves. No matter which side you fall on this type of discussion helps everyone look deep inside themselves and ask questions. If we question everything then we are able to develop our own opinions.

The clearer each person is in their mind the better prepared we are to move forward and make the best of it.

I didn't know we could curse on this board but to a lot of us it make a #$%@'s worth of difference. For some of us this isn't just a fetish that gives us a good outlet to masterbate to. For some of us we want to understand ouselves better so we can be at peace with it and learn to enjoy it.

Kisses,

Allie

[Miss Rachel]

The arguments/counter-arguments could be as endless as the analogies and cop-outs.
I can see valid points from just about everyone that has posted in this thread. Sadly the solution is far simpler than the action required to bring about the solution.
If we need a type, a label, a distinction, or some other type of classification why not use the one that best describes us all....
Human!!
People in general are panic-ridden idiots who would sooner destroy or invent some gibberish to give voice to anything they don't understand or are too afraid to figure out. A single person on the other hand can be approached, reasoned with and in most cases part ways peacefully even in the presence of differed opinions.
Who we are cannot be explained with words since we are made up of so much more than words. Who/what we are is defined by a combination our personalities, life experiences, physical appearances, religious preferences and most importantly by our choices.
If I feel the urge to blow my bosses brains out every time he upsets me does it make me a murderer? No! The choice to act on that feeling or urge is what would make me a murderer. I have no doubt that there are people with the same feelings/urges/compulsions as we do to become more feminine that never act on it. Does that make them a crossdresser? More importantly, should it really matter since we already know they are human.
How many snowflakes have there been in history? Each and everyone of them beautiful beyond compare but unique in it's own way, yet it is still only a snowflake. Why call us more than what we are?

Food for thought...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-the-same.html
If there is only a 0.1% difference between all of us why are they (people) so hell-bent on proving they are nothing like us?
If that doesn't roll you over in a fit of laughter nothing will.

Gummi,

What I would like to unlock is the secret to the possible explaination of why I got started, why I have evolved into what I am, why I am so happy with it, why I have a very supportive family, etc.

Kisses,

Allie

Easy answer = You have an open mind and were born lucky.

[Wen4cd]

What I would like to unlock is the secret to the possible explaination of why I got started, why I have evolved into what I am, why I am so happy with it, why I have a very supportive family, etc.

http://www.transformation.co.uk/en/t...ing?format=pdf

I find articles like this speak to my heart quite a bit. My wife was the first to actually mention Jung after my dressing for nearly 2 decades and having no real clue why.

She's a professional counselor with all kinds of education and credentials, and this stuff was pretty basic to her, though she'd never applied it to me out of respect until I started communicating to her that my feminine side had begun to 'speak' to me more clearly as I approached mid-life (35.)

Then she dug out her old classwork from grad school and it answered a lot of questions for me. Maybe you'll find it helpful.

[Nicole Brown]

Hi Allie,

First let me say that if a man is just one shade to the right or left of you he is a very beautiful man.

That being said, I have had this conversation with my therapist and amazing as it seems, at least to me, the 2 of us agree that there is no set answer to this question. We are who we are, and each of us is who we are for different reasons. Some of us are more feminine due to the makeup of our brains. Some of us are more feminine due to our chemical makeups and the balance of our hormones. Do a study of 100 girls and you will discover that there are as many different reason as there are girls.

After all of these discussions with my therapist I have learned not to question the differences between all of us but to be appreciative of them. Just think of lucky all of those 100 girls would be if they all had your exact composition, and how unlucky they would be if they had mine..

Nicole

[RobynP]

Allie,

This is a very good question. One point that should be clarified is that the news article is discussing people with an intersex condition. This condition is very rare. Intersex conditions can occur due to chromosomes or a pre-natal hormonal imbalance.

There is no link between crossdressing and having an intersex condition that has been proven by science. I don't even know if there have been any research done to support or refute the hypothesis. There may be some crossdressers who have an intersex condition and vice versa. But there is no evidence that intersex+crossdressing occurs more often than intersex-crossdressing.

There seems to be very little overlap between the intersex community and the transgender community. Sometimes SRS is performed to repair the intersex condition but the medical purpose for this is much different than traditional transsexualism.

Of course, it is very easy for us to say that we have a very strong feminine nature or strong feminine side to our personality and logically this must mean that our brains must be intersexed... However, this is a misuse of the term. Intersex indicates a physical issue with the genitalia or a mismatch between the genitalia and the chromosomes.

I suppose one can have their chromosomes checked to see if one is intersexed. It is also possible to have a brain scan to see if there are any surprises lurking inside...

How far do you want to go on your journey to discover your crossdressing roots? How many paths will you take? What do you expect to find or hope to find?

Robyn P.

[Vicky_Scot]

IMO we are born as crossdressers. Therefore we have no choice.

Xx Vicky xX

[TSchapes]

I have no choice as to the color of my eyes, or hair, or the fact that I am 6'4". These are givens.

To a certain extent I can choose to express my eye color differently (contacts), hair (dye) but not my height (unless I want to sit in a wheelchair or something). But the underlying givens are there.

Same thing with being transgender. I cannot choose to not be transgender, however I can choose the when, where and how I express that. I have the power.

For example, I have an LGBT meeting today. It's going to be at a restaurant. I can go drab or as Tracy. I'm leaning towards going as Tracy because I feel like expressing that side of myself today.

I hope this gray middle is not too scary for folks, but this is how I feel.

-Tracy

[Gerard]

I think that for transsexuals it's hardwired during their time in the womb, just like homosexuals. I think it's one of those things where the brain develops not according to the general plan due to the chemistry/hormones in the womb. Read things like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fratern...al_orientation
For those of us that just want to crossdress and not have a problem with their own body self image, it might be partially our upbringing, partially something we're born with.

For myself, I think partially my body chemistry might have something to do with it. I don't seem to have very high levels of testosterone, given that for example at age 30+ I still don't have much more than a moustache and a bit of hair on my chin, nowhere near a full beard. Also my gym teacher made remarks in the past on that my bone structure was quite feminine.

As far as my upbringing goes, I was mostly raised by my mother, with a workaholic as a dad, whom I hardly had any contact with. I only have a sister as far as siblings goes, which I think also makes a difference, especially because we travelled abroad a lot, where me and my sister only had each other.

[Chrissie P]

I think it's wired in the womb too. In life something will trigger the urge. For me it was my mothers slip... at the age of 5. I remember that day vividly and I remember thinking "I like that", and I progressed from there.

I feel lucky that I can enjoy being male and also a lady when I want to be. It's pretty unique and I love it.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I've actually been thinking about this overnite!!! LOL

anyway....i really think that its great how many of us are out there and how we are living positive, constructive,
dare i say, normal lives...

however, my opinion is that you simply don't have to precede that great attitude by saying....it's not my fault, i have a genetic or hormonal abnormality.. it's interesting in a scholarly way, and i admit that i'm curious about it..

our brains, our genetics, and our development in the womb are incredibly interesting and mysterious . i really would love to know...just to know...

but i actually fear this would be counter productive..

i don't think knowing why helps us become truly part of the fabric of our world...we look for the cause of cancer to cure it...i don't want to be cured...i am just me...

if we push folks to understand us by highlighting that it's not our choice, or not our fault...then we forever marginalize ourselves as people that are not like other people or who have a condition that should be treated, not an identity that should be embraced...

i'm seeing so many positive affirming statements, even in disagreement, that it makes me even more proud to "be me"
and i'd rather focus on that than trying to explain myself as having a problem

(and believe me..it took a LONG time for me to accept myself and feel this way)

[AllieSummers]

Wen4cd...Thanks for posting that imformation about Jung's Anima Theory. I can't say that I disagree with it at all. It is probably pretty spot on.

I have found that I went through a lot (if not all) of these phases. Right now I am at the later stages where I do tend to lean towards "greater spirituality and service to others". The actual act of dressing isn't as big a part of what makes me happy. I do still enjoy it tremendously but I am finding that I enjoy the interaction with others like me and the thought that I might be able to help them better understand themselves and learn to love this side of them and stop repressing it or feel ashamed about it.

I guess the only thing that Jung doesn't discuss (at least in this information) is what makes us have that "feminine side" and women have the "masculine side" of them. Also why do some choose to pursue this feminine side to a greater extent than other men.

I think it comes right back to our genetic, chemical and possibly psychological make up. Which once again is something we are born with...in my opinion.

This has been a great discussion, at least in my mind, and has made me dig deeper into my motivations for dressing.

You are all wonderful people and I am so proud to be part of such an excellent group. I wish I could meet each and every one of you. I bet that I could learn a lot from all.

Kisses,

Allie

[PrettyFlowingGown]

I started at 5 which is very early. I was picked on a lot at school, and up til school I was always with mum, she was my best friend, inseperable. I had terrible times at school cause of my stutter, so I found comfort in dressing, an escape in my private world, and its pretty much been that way all my life. In recent years though, Its become my life, I enjoy it and I'm happy. My work stresses me on certain days, and I find comfort in my dressing when I'm home. I think crossdressing varies with others, whether its choice or not. With me, it was an escape, but through life, its become my life.

[sarahNZ]

Ok so I'm gonna throw a spanner into the works right about now...

Once a long time in our past mankind had to be the preditor type in that he had to trap and hunt for the survival of the species, and the women of the species turned to the stronger man for protection... I'm sure you know where this is going...

Nowdays the need to be the strong protector or the hunter is gone so mankind has no real purpose... Women no longer turn to the strongest or the fastest or the best hunter for protection.

I believe that WE (TG) are the next step in the evolution of our species! OR AT LEAST the correcting step.

It is long been known that women outnumber men in our society and since their is no need to be preditors any more it is only fair to assume that evolution has some thing else in store for us (humankind).

What if for the survival of the species we (men) need to change (evolve) from hard as nails hunter types to softer more feminin more loving types? It would fit the equation would it not? Women don't need hunters any more, now they are choosing men that can make them feel like equals... How much more equal can you get than a man that understands what it takes to be a woman? A softer more loving man that can show feelings and the side that has always been hiden as a sign of weakness?

Embrace the weakness and show the world that we don't need them (hunter types) any more.

Not that it matters much any way due to the rate that we are multiplying and cross breeding, we will all be the same colour within the next 10 generations anyway. EVOLUTION!

[Gerard]

http://www.transformation.co.uk/en/t...ing?format=pdf

I find articles like this speak to my heart quite a bit. My wife was the first to actually mention Jung after my dressing for nearly 2 decades and having no real clue why.

She's a professional counselor with all kinds of education and credentials, and this stuff was pretty basic to her, though she'd never applied it to me out of respect until I started communicating to her that my feminine side had begun to 'speak' to me more clearly as I approached mid-life (35.)

Then she dug out her old classwork from grad school and it answered a lot of questions for me. Maybe you'll find it helpful.

That article is awesome. It brings into words very much what I feel I'm going though. Of accepting my female side and for the first time in my life feeling whole when both sides start to integrate.

[AllieSummers]

Sarah...this is another way of looking at it that I have done some research into. Some believe that we are evolving into androgynyous society. As we evolve from a material society to and spiritual society we will start to evolve from traits that are less desirable to traits that are more desireable.

Certain of these qualities have been associated primarily with one or the other of the sexes, as has been the case with less desirable traits such as aggression, violence, ignorance, competitiveness, subservience, weakness, frivolity, and passivity.

Women are already doing this and are probably way ahead of men. If you haven't noticed women are taking over the world. They are evolving away from traditionally less desirable feminine traits (subservience, weakness, frivolity and passivity). Men are way behind the curve and will eventually have to evolve away from the less desirable masculine traits (agression, violence, ignorance, competitiveness) to be accepted in a female dominated society. The beginning of the end for the macho man is already set in motion.

Like Sarah said, we are then the perfect gender. All the positive qualities of male and female combined into one gender.

Many believe that eventually (1000's of years) we will totally lose our reproductive organs and become one gender that reproduces through self-fertilization of some type.

I know we are getting a little deep here but it is fun to think that maybe we are just ahead of the curve when it comes to sexuality and gender.

Kisses,

Allie

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Well, I think everything we do and are is combination of nature and nurture, but the only thing that I would throw as a wrench into the works of this debate is, what really qualifies things as masculine and feminine? It's an entirely social construct for the most part, and depends entirely on the era and social attitudes.

Some examples,

Skirts are "feminine." Yet look at the cast of movies like Troy, Gladiator and Braveheart. No one would say these men were feminine. The kilt is well touted as a manly garment, and yet it is also the skirt of choice for schoolgirl uniforms. And this summer, gladiator sandals were all the rage for young women, and the majority of the ones I saw had no special feminine flourishes, they seemed just the same as the kind Russell Crowe's costume had in his movie.

Tunics, tights, and even face makeup were all male garments in previous centuries. Men also used to wear powdered wigs. Before that, flowing robes. Greek robes and Roman Togas, decked out with jewelry and flourish to show social status.

Cowboy boots are almost as much a staple in the sassy girl's wardrobe as they are in the tough rodeo rider's.

Even taking things away from fashion. During the height of Greece, homosexual acts were commonplace and an active part of military life, having aspects of dominance and authority to them sometimes but also sometimes a romantic nature between male lovers. Achilles in the Iliad is supposed to be the mightiest warrior in the Greek army in the battle against Troy, and he is written about not as being some big bulky human tank, but rather as being blonde and beautiful, and had a male lover. Yet the mainstream social impression of homosexual men in contemporary society is that they are feminine, girly men. (NOTE: I said the social impression, not the reality. I'm well aware of Bears and leather guys. )

So are we really genetically inclined to be feminine, or do we just like stuff despite the current trends of society? I mean many of us had we been born as ancient egyptians wouldn't be seen as oddballs at all for doing things like removing our body hair, or wearing makeup.

[Alexiax]

Looking back..........I find it funny that when we are born the Docs say......."Well Mrs. So&so..........you have a fine and healthy and beautiful baby boy!" And so often........hah......little do they know. All they did was look between the legs to make that determination! Just crazy!

[sarahNZ]

Like Sarah said, we are then the perfect gender. All the positive qualities of male and female combined into one gender.


Allie

What I failed to mention was that when writing my last post my comp shut down to update itself which sadly negated my nicely evolved state of mind to release the caveman within... I was lucky enough that my comp didn't take to much offence to the hammering I gave it and still posted my reply.