My world - and mine alone! ?

[Stephanie Miller]

In an earlier thread I brought up the effects of a close friend starting her transition and its effects on people. Besides the answers on the post itself, I received many e-mails with others insight as they saw it.
Those responses prompted this thread.
All I can base my thoughts on are personal observations and incoming communications such as the e-mails. I would like to see how everyone else sees it too. What "it" is just happens to be actions and thought patterns of those who are CD/TS/TG. Does our "group" show a higher degree of ME FIRST!
I understand the need of individuals to pursue their own path in life - BUT how far do we go. How much do we allow others to just live with our actions because we like it or need it, and if others are just not open minded enough to accept it - then tough. I'm doing it anyway. Where does it say in the marriage certificate that after we realize being married isn't the "fix" we thought it would be for our desire to CD, then till death do us part becomes till you can't live with the new me. Is it fair for our kids to be teased at school because "your daddy's a sissy so you must be one too." Why do we feel our choice of lifestyle - because we are comfortable with it or we need to become our true selves - comes first. It shouldn't matter how it effects others. Should it? Are we being selfish? Or are others just not accepting fast enough the new age and it really is their problem not ours? Is there a more appropriate way for us to help the rest of the world with learning what CD/TS/TG is all about rather than shock and awe? Are we invading others "space" by breaking with societal customary dress style? Or are they impeding our freedom to be who we want?
If you want to flame this post - then take out your anger somewhere else. I purposely did not direct this post one way or another. Just looking for good clean dialog between us. There is too much grey area here to be a solid right or wrong.

[Summer]

My wife married me knowing I was a dresser. I'm always dressed, but the question is how do we handle ourselves. We have 2 wonderful girls who grew up knowing their dad was also a mom.
How do I handle it? Simple, tone down my dress so I am more acceptable in public and personal life.

As to your other thread, I think you handle your life well, you regard your family first. This is most important for you to be a success as a person. You can see for yourself when you look in the mirror and see your lovely smile.
Best of everything to you and yours.
Summer

[gennee]

[SIZE="3"]Just like no two people are alike, everyone has to do what's best for them. It's not being selfish if you seeks what's best for them. Yes, when you do something out of the norm people will react in different ways. However no one can live your life either.

Our journeys are different but nevertheless we're on one. Each of us travels a different road and there will be those times where we'll have to go all by ourselves. I went through my most difficult trek recently but in the end I came back a more contented individual.

Gennee[/SIZE]

[sherri52]

Stephanie you are right. There is a very gray area here. We must be ourselves, yet , on the other hand we have to care for those around us. For me family always came first. I have eight children and all of them know I dress. Only two have seen. I grew up in a world where cd'ing was a definite no-no, so there wasn,t much going out then. Dressing was hidden from most and shown to some. I have friends that have never seen and I have dressed for certain people that I hardly knew. It isn't just cd'ing that's a gray area. Many things fit in this area. Smoking, drinking, being at a table with or without a shirt. We can't control these factors but it is up to us to decide on th cd'ing.

[Stephanie Miller]

Gennee,
I don't want to pick sides... so rest assured I will play devils advocate to all

Per your post I can understand someone following their own path if there is knowone else involved. But what if you want a different path AFTER you made commitments of marriage or kids or close "straight" friends. Remember society has had a leg in this for a long time now on how other non CD/TS/TG educated people feel/believe and act.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

It is a fair minded question..

one thought i have about it is why don't hunter's have to answer that question? why don't golfers have to answer it? musicians?

the "norm" in society is just that...it's existence implies a "not" norm....where the line gets blurry is when people start beleiving that the "not" norm is bad or wrong...what is wrong with me? i was born as me and only i can live my own life...it's certainly true that in my attempts to feel like a "normal" person, i have implicated others, and it's still not settled whether it was for better or worse...my kids never could have existed if not for my attempts to be "normal" would it be better for them not to exist??

...the reason i tried to be normal was because i feared it was wrong to be not normal or that others would perceive me as bad....how sad this is...

so my answer is that it's not about me first...it's just living life and although it's pretty rare and out of the box as far as problems go...it's just one of many many many things that we all deal with all the time...

[Stephanie Miller]

Well Kaitlyn I can help you with a little of your post..
Why don't hunters? Probably because a majority of the population eat meat so there is some form of understanding of why there is a need to aquire it.
Why don't musicians? Without having the exact number in front of me I feel safe to say more than 90% of the world accepts music, and their stage theatrics already. So there is no need to be ashamed of them. ( for the most part.
And golf? Oh pleez. Is it an acceptable part of our society? Yes, I would venture golf is acceptable. So really, no explaining is needed for that action. BUT..... let Tiger walk to the first tee in a cute crop top and skort .. well now There going to be some 'splainin to do Lucy!
Societal acceptance. There is more today than yesteryear - but are we pushing it down peoples throat to fast just to please ourselves?

[Summer]

Stephanie,
The answer to your second question is simple, you would just be selfish. After you make a bargain you don't go back, unless you totally in-compatible.
Summer

[Tina B.]

A question for you. If no one steps forward and challenges the "Norm" then how does a movement go forward. If not for Civil rights leaders, where would Blacks be today? If not for Stonewall where would the Gay movement be? Society will only except change if it is made to except it, and that only happens one way. Someone always has to pay, unfortunately it could be the cross dresser, or there loved ones. Just be thankful there are those brave enough to pay the price for all of us, so maybe in 40 or 50 years, young CD's won't know how bad it was back in the good old days.
When I started trying to find out why I was so different, there was no information out there. Websters, didn't even list Transvestite in there dictionary, and the rest of the TG language didn't exist either. Then A guy had a sex change, and it made headlines, putting it in everyones face, I feel I have always owed Christine Jorgensen a huge thank you for coming out and letting a young teen he wasn't all alone.
Tina

[AKAMichelle]

This question depending upon your perspective can be answered different ways. So I will attempt to answer all the way around the question.

1) I think it is wrong for a anybody to be selfish and spend money, time and energy on anything which distracts from the others in the family. This can be going to play golf every weekend on Saturday and watching football all day on Sunday. What about the responsibilties to your wife and children? Cd'ers are no different from the rest of society except their interest in Cd'ing. You make a commitment in marriage to love, honor and cherish. Even though it doesn't say the marriage vows imply support. I think the greatest way to show love and support to your family is by spending time with them. Putting them first in your time allocation.

2) This is the other side of the coin. While a cd'er doesn't have the right to be selfish and all about me, they do have the right to be respected by their spouse. That support can come in a don't ask - don't tell system all the way to full acceptance. Many times as in my own life, my wife knows and wants nothing to do with it. My wife goes further to ridicule cd'ers and make sure to bring up any news stories about cd'ing in the most negative way. That to me is terrible, because their is a lack of respect for the other party. Cd'ers have feelings even if a spouse doesn't understand them. Lack of understanding doesn't mean that you should belittle someone else. That type of non-acceptance does lead to that selfish thinking which ultimately will doom a marriage.

Marriage is a 2 way street which requires both parties to work together. The marriage is only as good as the weakest link. Couples should build each other up instead of being all about themselves.

[Summer]

Michelle,
I'm very sorry for your situation, your wife is just be cruel and selfish.
That is the other side of the table. Stand up for your self and tell her to keep here opinions to her self.
Summer

[kellycan27]

Michelle,
I'm very sorry for your situation, your wife is just be cruel and selfish.
That is the other side of the table. Stand up for your self and tell her to keep here opinions to her self.
Summer

Cross dressing isn't something that everyone can live with. It might not matter how "educated" someone is on the subject, if they are not comfortable with it.. they aren't comfortable with it. Does your right to crossdress trump their right to be comfortable? Even if they totally understand the concept... it doesn't mean that they are going to accept it. I see where a lot of crossdressers don't understand this. They feel that because this is something that is ingrained in them, their SO be understanding and accepting. Nice thought, but not very realistic. If someone is taking jabs at you or cross dressing in general..doesn't that tell you something? They obviously don't like it. The reasons seem to be of no consequence... You can lead a horse to water. The don't ask don't tell senerio might work for the crossderesser, but for the SO who even though doesn't see it.. still knows that it exists. How does this help them?
if you went into the relationship.. hiding the facts, you are truly selfish, and thowing innocent children into the mix who might suffer at the break up of the family.. is just wrong.

[Summer]

It's simple, his wife doesn't have to be rude. All I ask is she be civil.
Summer

[sterling12]

I am also a President of a Tri-Ess Chapter, and I guess because my particular chapter is very liberal and accepting; we have discussed and thought about this situation many times.

Most outsiders don't know it, but from personal experience I believe that a much higher percentage of gals who join support groups eventually transition. Maybe joining The Group was a transition in and of itself. Then The Next Step was a lot less of a jump. Or they realized that once out, "this is the real me and this is what I want."

Anyway, if I was going to talk about "differences" between CD Gals and TS Gals, this is the only "glaring" difference I see. For many, (but not all) TS Gals, family, friends, public opinion, just about no one or no thing is going to stop them from doing what they believe is right for them. For many of them, they believe that the whole situation has become so dire that they will surely be destroyed if they don't take "The Big Step."

Often, with CD Gals you will hear stories that are just the opposite. "You know, when I was eighteen, had things been different, had my family been more accepting, if I hadn't married and had kids, I might have done something and gone the same route as those TS Gurls."

So there is "Gray Area." But, there often seems to be this fundamental difference between The Two "Breeds." I perceive that we are all transgendered, just that some of us are a lot more transgendered than others! Maybe that's why we talk about a "spectrum."

I didn't get a chance to reply to The Other Thread, but I'll kind of lump the two together for right now. A very good friend, and part of my group, just did the same thing about 5 months ago. It has been ongoing Hell with the family, but she's a very positive thinker. By her reasoning, she has raised her step kids, been a good spouse, and would continue to be one, but now it's time for C*****.

Will her Transition "out me?" I don't think so, and I don't care. I signed as a witness for her Court Ordered Name Change and now I guess it's Public Record. If anyone cared to ask, I would simply reply: "I know a lot of unique people, C*****, is a friend." "The fact that she's changing her sex doesn't change our friendship." I think it would be a huge leap for anyone to ASSUME that somehow my friendship also inferred that I was transgendered. These days, if you really care to find out, I think you will find most everyone has some link to a TG Person, be it family, or acquaintance, or whatever. Simply put, most people are oblivious to just about everything, their attention span is short, and their powers of deduction are limited to speculating about whom will be thrown off The Island this week.

I wouldn't sweat it!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Ralph]

Stephanie,

Great topic, and one that is sure to raise a lot of hackles. In the recent past I can't count how many times I've seen comments like "If they were really my friends they would accept me as I am", or people who focussed entirely on how well the family accomodates their need to dress up. "If you/he/she/they really loved me" always raises a red flag for me, because that coin always has another side to it - if YOU really loved THEM you wouldn't make such demands on what they should and shouldn't accept. The phrase simply does not belong in any dialogue between two people who really do love one another.

I suspect that a lot of us - and I do this myself sometimes - forget to walk a mile in the other person's pumps before criticizing.

For example, with the acceptance thing... I have said before, it took me a good 20 years to accept who I am and what I am, and along with that figure out what I am not. I know I'm not alone in the length of time it took me to come to grips with myself. If it took me that long, how dare I expect a spouse to make the same amount of progress in a few days/weeks/months? Or more distant family members and friends who don't even have the extra insight gained by living with me? In addition, I am able to love friends who have qualities I think are unsettling, or downright obnoxious. They don't demand "Love me, love my tendency to forward stupid emails every time I see them", or "If you really loved me, you would love going to tractor pulls with me." In the same way, why can't I let them love me even if there's no chance in hell they could ever understand my need to wear dresses?

Probably straying off the point you wanted to make, so I'll just stop now.

[Vicky_Scot]

Of course crossdressers are selfish. We have a uncontrolable urge to dress in womans clothes, wear make up etc.

What we have to do is learn to control that urge so we can function as a human being and have families, relationships etc.

If you let the urge control your life instead of you controling it then its downhill all the way.

Xx Vicky xX

[shannonFL]

“How do I balance my need for genuine self-expression against the fair consideration owed to loved ones sharing my life?”

“To what extent have I been openly accountable to others for the loss of trust created by my failure to disclose the full extent of my lifelong gender conflict?”

“How do I find the courage and entitlement to embrace my authentic Self, in the face of all the real and imagined consequences”?

“What am I willing to give in my effort to repair damaged trust without sacrificing my claim to wholeness and integrity?”

“How, despite my personal suffering and that potentially inflicted on others as a result of my gender conflict, do I measure the worth of the positive contributions I have made to my family, friends and colleagues?”

“If I do move forward with gender transition, what changes are necessary for me to fulfill my ongoing commitment to children and others who have relied on me”?



.
“…We spend our whole lives feeling awful about who we are…feeling a need to apologize to humanity for breaking the most basic social norm. Then when it comes time to empower ourselves and rise above every social teaching that has metastasized from society to our consciousness, we feel a great ache in our solar plexus – guilt. And ironically enough, the people who want to block us realize this better than we do, and they dig in for battle, throwing back at us our greatest fear…”How can you be so selfish???!!!” I say, how can we be so SELF-LESS!! We have spent a whole life trying to ease the sense of comfort in others by sacrificing our entire identity. If you don’t believe you are justified in being yourself, why should anyone else?”

“The pitfall…is that the selfishness/self-esteem balance tends to be a floodgate instead of a rheostat. In the past, I had built up tremendous resentment toward the world over not being able to be myself. The funny part is that the world had no idea that I was not being myself…the joke was on me. I created 30 years of negative energy…this was my own baggage that wasn’t going to fit into my overhead compartment on my new journey. The party was over…the pity party. I did this awkwardly, as I think many of us do. In order to mount the courage to overthrow this wave of guilt, it is easy for us to call upon the natural power of this negative energy…resentment and anger…which gives birth to self-entitlement, i.e., not me, not me…becomes me, me, me. I think we are truly entitled to a period of me, me, me as we go through transition…with one very important caveat…intent has to be in the right place. To fine tune that balance is the key to finding grace in gaining the respect of others in your transition…solving a problem requires different thinking than the mind set that created it. So keep your minds open, trust your intuition, and the rest will fall into place.”

Not my own words, but I refer to them once in a while...

[Stephanie Miller]

Good Lord am I glad I finally ask this. I'm geetting wonderful feedback. Thank you all.
It kind of brings back memories of the old Christmas movie " A Wonderful Life" where one really doesn't realize how many or how we really effect someones life. What I have not heard from are the GG's. Can I get a little perspective from someone who doesn't "live it" yet lives with it?

[Rhonda Jean]

“How do I balance my need for genuine self-expression against the fair consideration owed to loved ones sharing my life?”

“To what extent have I been openly accountable to others for the loss of trust created by my failure to disclose the full extent of my lifelong gender conflict?”

“How do I find the courage and entitlement to embrace my authentic Self, in the face of all the real and imagined consequences”?

“What am I willing to give in my effort to repair damaged trust without sacrificing my claim to wholeness and integrity?”

“How, despite my personal suffering and that potentially inflicted on others as a result of my gender conflict, do I measure the worth of the positive contributions I have made to my family, friends and colleagues?”

“If I do move forward with gender transition, what changes are necessary for me to fulfill my ongoing commitment to children and others who have relied on me”?



.
“…We spend our whole lives feeling awful about who we are…feeling a need to apologize to humanity for breaking the most basic social norm. Then when it comes time to empower ourselves and rise above every social teaching that has metastasized from society to our consciousness, we feel a great ache in our solar plexus – guilt. And ironically enough, the people who want to block us realize this better than we do, and they dig in for battle, throwing back at us our greatest fear…”How can you be so selfish???!!!” I say, how can we be so SELF-LESS!! We have spent a whole life trying to ease the sense of comfort in others by sacrificing our entire identity. If you don’t believe you are justified in being yourself, why should anyone else?”

“The pitfall…is that the selfishness/self-esteem balance tends to be a floodgate instead of a rheostat. In the past, I had built up tremendous resentment toward the world over not being able to be myself. The funny part is that the world had no idea that I was not being myself…the joke was on me. I created 30 years of negative energy…this was my own baggage that wasn’t going to fit into my overhead compartment on my new journey. The party was over…the pity party. I did this awkwardly, as I think many of us do. In order to mount the courage to overthrow this wave of guilt, it is easy for us to call upon the natural power of this negative energy…resentment and anger…which gives birth to self-entitlement, i.e., not me, not me…becomes me, me, me. I think we are truly entitled to a period of me, me, me as we go through transition…with one very important caveat…intent has to be in the right place. To fine tune that balance is the key to finding grace in gaining the respect of others in your transition…solving a problem requires different thinking than the mind set that created it. So keep your minds open, trust your intuition, and the rest will fall into place.”

Not my own words, but I refer to them once in a while...

This is tremendously insightful. So well put that I think it could describe EITHER side in a relationship that has reached a breaking point. I think this is exactly the point my ex was at when she just couldn't take living with me anymore. "A floodgate and not a rheostat"... very good! I couldn't imagine this person who'd displayed a lifetime of selflessness becoming so immediately entirely selfish. Guess this stuff can go both ways. The other side gets no warning that the floodgates are opening. That was me. Happily wading in a quiet stream that became a raging torrent.

[Stephenie]

I am going though these questions in my life right now.

How can I be me and still take care of my responsabilities at home. Since my wife will not accept dressing then anything further is also out. Yet, if I don't do something then the frustrations biuld and then I'm not happy and she's not happy which just makes it worse.

I have kids, grown and young, Step and Adopted, some might accept some would not. I don't want to put them through all the crap at school but, I can be the good parent I want to be if I am aways hiding a part of my (a big part of who I am)

SO now I am trying to decide what and how to do something that , while not prefect for all, will do what can be done for all.


Stephenie

[Wen4cd]

This is a hairy subject here. It's one of those things where it's very tempting to apply your own issues onto others, when it's individually diverse.

I'll be the only thing I can be with this subject -selfish- and speak only of me, because it would be impossible to do otherwise with this word.

I try to fight selfishness in me. Selfishness is a touchy subject. It's going to be a LONG post! Because I am so selfish.



Ever do shadow-self work? Active imagination? It's kind of like 'at-home' psychoanalysis. In me, this might be a case for that.


I'll do this: I imagine I'm out dressed in public, trying to live as a woman, be 'full-time,' etc... (I don't consciously wish this, but I explore it because it is a common theme, and I also want to Know what goes on in my head.)

Then I imagine someone seeing me, knowing of me, the judgmental voice of 'society' (one facet of the shadow-self,) some person who sees me and heartily disapproves. I think we all have figures like this who control our actions from within.

If I study the utterances of this shadow-person, it's surprising. He is not saying "hey, there goes a damn freak, I wanna outcast it." He is not going "lol, hella ghey homoslexual right there, BASH it!" This is what the stereotype expects, but is not at all the case for me.

What this dark figure, this imagined 'judge' from my unconscious, is saying when he sees the imagined FT dressed me, is almost just what you're suggesting in your OP. He's saying "Wow, there goes the most self-absorbed jerk I've seen all day. I sure hope he doesn't expect me to further masturbate his ego by interacting with him. I abhor pride and selfishness, and I am seeing a literal walking personification of it and I disapprove."

Now, that's a moderately deep, dark example of my unconscious shadow-self process. It's not reality, and if it's kept near consciousness it won't be as likely to be projected, but the most dangerous thing, from all accounts, is to pretend it isn't there. It's also not the only figure speaking or opining on the subject. There is a feminine (anima-self) connection that is saying a wholly different thing. She's saying "Ooh, look at the poor dear, like a little puppy desperately needing to be loved and attended to. Coming out like this in public is such an obvious statement of need, this person needs friends, love, and validation! It's not selfish want at all, it's need. I have to help. I have to take care of that person and make it all better!"

Notice all this judgment is pointed at myself, imagined as a public full-time TG. If I don't try to keep this shadow voice conscious, it will be projected onto other public, full-time TG's, which would be a distortion. Everything unconscious is projected.

(And also notice that the feminine anima-self still sees a 'problem' with the hypothetical image of me full-timing. She doesn't see it as selfish, but the opposite, a desperate need for something missing, neither figure sees a 'contented person living normally' when they look at the imagined image of me full-timing. This is a crucial nugget to find in this confusion, and is probably the 'answer' to why I personally don't have a desire to full-time dress.

There's also a seldom-seen 'higher-self" figure who occasionally pipes in with what sounds like 'wisdom.' I'm trying to locate that figure more and more often.

I usually like to listen to the anima figure in these particular examples, because she's "nicer" in her way, and sees good in people rather than bad. But I'm leaving her input and the elusive 'higher self' wizardly figure out of question for now, only because the topic is 'selfishness,' and that's the word the shadow uses. Focusing on the opposite doesn't silence him; he exists for a purpose.)

What this tells me about myself, which I can use to grow, is that I should try to fight selfishness in myself as a general rule in and out of my dressing, because unconscious self-sabotage will happen if I perceive myself to be selfish, and it can't be fooled with excuses I tell myself consciously. It's interesting to note that no matter how outlandish the image of me dressed in public is, it's only the "selfishness" my shadow-self reacts to, there is never talk of perversion, sickness, or labels of sexual preference. I think that means they are non-issues to me in what's important to me in my dressing.

It also reveals an element of envy, discontent that others do 'whatever they want,' while I hold myself back from a lot of things for fear of being selfish. So then there is a yearning to have a healthy level of self-satisfaction as well, or else bitterness will arise. Then I resolve not to 'delete selfishness in me' but to 'curb selfishness" To control, not to eradicate. (Without salt, potato chips taste like crap, too much salt, potato chips taste like salty crap, but with just enough salt, it resonates with the potatoes and becomes magically delicious.)

It's also interesting and telling to note the setting of this imagined interaction. This occurance happens on a 'mainstream' psychic plane in a perceived world where people are coming and going to work, shopping for groceries (not the mall, but the supermarket), basically dealing with mundane life, and this shadow-self--judge is on his way to his day-job, putting in his work time. Something tells me this same shadow figure would be absolutely fine and supporting of the same eccentric image of me dressed, in public even, at a leisurely setting, shopping in the mall with friends, out at a dance club, even in public parks. He doesn't see it as perverse or wrong on the surface, but only selfishly out of place. He only judges the image of me dressed as selfish in: work settings, family settings, or otherwise mundane settings. What does this mean? He thinks it's unfair only to be selfish when you're around others who you have to 'work' with? He thinks cross-dressing is, at it's core, superficial leisure, because gender is but a symbolic construct anyway? Ah, it's another place to delve, and it's lunch time.

The last thing I think I can glean from the exercise is that, whenever dealing with others, especially in the TG world, to try silence the shadow, and listen more to the anima-self. The shadow is essentially the voice of self-control, he's there to keep strict on me, not others. Affect and relationships are the domain of the anima, so she gets a bigger say on how my total being deals with others, when it comes back to reality. When I balance her affect towards others and love of me, with the healthier parts of the shadow's self-criticism, this is when all figures sort of begin to merge into the higher-self voice.

Slow day at work, heehee.

[Sally2005]

It is possible to look at it this way. Most CDers have been hiding for most of their lives, basically taking a back seat, trying to fit in to society, doing what their parents and friends expected...then they suffer privately and finally discover they are normal and begin to accept themselves. So an apparent sudden change in ones attitude or activities can seem selfish when in fact it was the 'world' that was selfish in the past and now they need some me time.

The complication comes when you take on other roles, like father, spouse, neighbor... your activiites can impact these people. So my personal view is, unless you are going to make a major life transition yourself, it is best to reduce the impact to the other aspects of your life because the people who made the choice to be friends with you in the various roles did so without knowing this part of who you are. So depending on how the news will impact their lives you should consider what will happen to them.

The real issue though is for the people who had no choice, like your kids...you have a responsibility to keep them safe...so unless you can work it in a way that benefits them your CDing may be better to shelter from them.

It becomes selfish, when you devote so much energy and time to this one activity and ruin the other parts of your life by neglecting them. When I got married there was a requirement to be devoted...it is not fair to make such a promise and drop it when it is convenient. Sometimes it is hard to remain balanced, but hopefully with support from your partner you can make it back to a stable point without the whole thing getting broken.

I guess the real problem happens when all parties involved are selfish and become so fixed in their own views that it becomes impossible to coexist in peace.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Hi Stephanie...i agree with your answers...thnx

i would like to add a few things..

the concept that the living of our lives, the acceptance of our identities is somehow so wrong that to do it is selfish is the problem...we shouldnt have to push it down peoples throats...there is nothing wrong with it...the fact that we are so unaccepted and frankly misunderstood has caused enormous suffering for us and our loved ones....

a hunter or golfer that spends all weekend away from their families, that take week long hunting trips...arent they being incredibly selfish to satisfy their "needs and desires"?....i think so...but its totally accepted and laughed at...

i've been there on the 18th hole...lets go another round boys!....HAHAHA--back slap--boy i'm finally away from the ole ball and chain....its totally accepted...but it often causes suffering for the partner that is left out..

so i hear your question...if you take the position that ALL actions that benefit only yourself are selfish, then i guess i have to agree....but i feel we all have a birthright to live our lives as productive good people...and the fact that society generally misunderstands and marginalizes us is a problem, but it doesnt make us anymore selfish than anybody else..

balancing relationships is always about give and take, i would guess that almost every relationship that breaks is because one side takes too much, or needs too much...gender variance is just one of many many things that cause imbalance...

if your needs are unfullfilled, there is a significant cost to you..if you fulfill your needs there may be a cost to your SO..either way, you are risking throwing the relationship out of balance...we are all free to make our own choices, and that's whats great about free will.....but of course there are also consequences...

i guess the unanswered question would be whether being transgendered is a "worse" thing than cheating, doing drugs, drinking, ignoring, stealing, withholding sex, being a workoholic, gambling, abusing, and anything else that we would all consider selfish to the point of hurting a relationship..
thats my 23 cents...heh

thnx!
Kate

[TrekGirl1701]

I don't really see it as a "me first!" thing. I look around at people who aren't crossdressers, men and women, and they're wearing what they want to wear and act how they want to act. And I can't because it isn't what's considered "normal"?

I admit I have quite a different situation from most other crossdressers who are in committed relationships and have children. I can only imagine what it's like for you guys. But for me it's gotten to the point where I don't consider my crossdressing to be selfish. I feel like I'm getting closer and closer to coming out of the closet and when I do I won't be "shoving it down people's throats". I'll be myself and I shouldn't feel like I'm making life worse for those around me. My parents, siblings, friends all have habits that annoy the ever-living piss out of me, but I accept them because they have lots of good qualities that vastly out-weigh the bad ones. Is it too much to ask for the same in return?

[Rhonda Jean]

a hunter or golfer that spends all weekend away from their families, that take week long hunting trips...arent they being incredibly selfish to satisfy their "needs and desires"?....i think so...but its totally accepted and laughed at...

From a time standpoint or even a money standpoint, you've got a point. Otherwise, not so much. Your wife and kids would suffer no embarrassment over you coming out as a hunter or a golfer. You won't lose your job or your status in the community. Your friends won't start avoiding you. It won't suddenly be uncomfortable for your relatives to be around you at family gatherings.

I think, although I have no way of knowing, that that once someone knows you like to wear women's clothes, they may carry that image of you, real or imagined, with them into every context that involves you. This includes interactions with your wife and kids. I would imagine that it's quite an indelible image, particularly among those least familiar (almost everybody). To them, it's likely to be a pretty ridiculous looking image... Funny, perverted, mentally disturbed... There's just no telling, regardless of how pretty and well adjusted we thing we are. If your wife and kids are accepting, people would probably thik they're wierd for accepting you.

Taking my recent divorce as an example... If my wife told 20 of her friends that she had to leave me because I was a crossdresser and filled them in on the details of that activity over the last 30 years, I suspect that 20 out of 20would have been completely and enthusiasticly supportive of her decision to leave, and would respect her for taking such a stand against such abhorent behavior. She would be seen as taking the moral high ground. On the other hand, if she outed me to this same group and expressed her tolerance, support, encouragement, appreciation, or what-have-you, their reaction probably would have been much less positive toward her.