Being a guy vs. being a jerk

[Ze]

Something else I've been mulling over for a while. This is more a ramble than anything else. Everybody's free to chime in.

To help me pass as a guy, I've been watching my cismale peers at college, most of which are white and spoiled. (i.e. Mummy and Daddims are paying their way through. Oi.)

It could be for a multitude of reasons, I'm sure, but it finally dawned on me: the peers I "should" be emulating in order to pass are nothing but sexist, rude, over-privileged, narcissistic jerks. No, this isn't really a surprise to me since I've been studying blind privilege and senses of entitlement for so long, but I guess it finally hit home for me.

Granted, I'm from lower-middle class (a far cry from most of these guys), but it seems that even if you don't come from money, you should act like it. So I'm getting the message that, in order to pass like my peers, I'm supposed to act this terrible.

Well I'm not doing it. I'm a gentleman and a nice guy. I take care of my appearance when I know it'll matter. I watch my language and conversation topics in front of mixed company and children. When I find myself in conversations that demean women or minorities, I speak up in their defense (provided I'm pretty sure I won't get the crap beaten out of me for saying so). I open doors for ladies, the elderly, and anybody that has their arms full. I don't leave my messes for other people to clean up. When somebody needs help, I help them. I view the world with equality; nobody is below me, nobody is above me.

And I know all of this is hurting my passability. But I simply can't function like a "normal" guy my age. I wasn't born with the blind privilege that I'd be treated better than everybody else for unfair reasons. And since I wasn't given that privilege, I won't and can't take it for granted.

I know the world itself seems to be at a loss for manners anymore, but I also know in my unfortunate female past that when I did the above kind things, it was just expected of me. I was supposed to bow down to the "elite" of the world. Now as a guy, I get weird looks.

I'm really, really hoping this whole jerk issue is just a temporary product of sex, age, skin color, class, etc. Because if it's meant to be a permanent fix, I'm screwed.

But I'm still proud of being a polite boy. So there.

[NiCo]

Dude. See growing up in Scotland, we were taught to be polite, to treat people equally or our parents beat the utter $%^& out of us. Yes, it’s true. So you’ll probably find that your behaviour seems completely normal to me, the holding doors open, giving seats up to women and elderly in the bus and in general, being kind and considerate. Males were especially taught to be respectful! The females got it a bit easier.

Then I moved to England.

I’m not saying that everywhere in England is like this. I’ve lived in a variety of places and they have different ways of showing their consideration etc.

Also, I’m not even from the lower-middle class, I’m more likely to be from the middle-lower class lol…but when I moved to England, they were like, higher than me but not by much, so maybe their little more spoiltness contributed to their different attitudes.

I agree with you though, I wont change from a reasonable amount of politeness to “bold” as I would say. It’s embarrassing to watch them react with pure disrespect.

Anyway, I might offend a few people with this post but this is just my opinion from what I’ve seen with my own eyes.

My discipline levels were far more than most receive these days. We were grateful for having coal fires, cause coal fires was better than no fire [whereas most of the kids had central heating WTF?!] I had a black and white tv in my bedroom…wow, eh? AND a colour one in our living room!

These rich kids don’t get enough discipline, and nor do the poorer kids. Unless they come from a different region of the country. In which case, I’m talking about the UK.

I wouldn’t really know about the US, cause all I have done is watched movies, but obviously you don’t judge a place by what you see in a fictional movie LOL…

But yeah Ze, don’t change yourself to fit in, why would anyone want to go from being polite to ignorant? It baffles me! I think you are awesome the way you are…and if people can’t see that then they should $%^& off, they aren’t worth it!

[Holding doors open for women and being polite and respectful is more likely to land you with a partner (you keep saying it's hard for you to get one) than any of these idiots… and you will also be taken more seriously in time when people see you are worth more than the FOOLS. I can understand if it makes you angry, their attitudes, cause it pisses me off too lol]

Edit: Sorry I rambled *cries*

[Ze]

Naw, NiCo, that was great! And thanks for the kind words. You're very, very right. You said some of the stuff better than what I was attempting to do.

And I forgot to mention that I'm in the States. So yeah, I was also curious about cultural differences.

[Kieron Andrew]

Well I'm not doing it. I'm a gentleman and a nice guy. I take care of my appearance when I know it'll matter. I watch my language and conversation topics in front of mixed company and children. When I find myself in conversations that demean women or minorities, I speak up in their defense (provided I'm pretty sure I won't get the crap beaten out of me for saying so). I open doors for ladies, the elderly, and anybody that has their arms full. I don't leave my messes for other people to clean up. When somebody needs help, I help them. I view the world with equality; nobody is below me, nobody is above me.

And I know all of this is hurting my passability. But I simply can't function like a "normal" guy my age. I wasn't born with the blind privilege that I'd be treated better than everybody else for unfair reasons. And since I wasn't given that privilege, I won't and can't take it for granted.

Dude anyone that has met me and knows me well knows i am a old school gentleman, i am not overtly masculine or macho, i don't follow the herd or try to emulate other men, because I am my own man and i wont change...you don't need to be a jerk to pass, not in the slightest

I'm still proud of being a polite boy. So there.

and so you should be proud!

[Stacyy]

I open doors for ladies, the elderly, and anybody that has their arms full. I don't leave my messes for other people to clean up. When somebody needs help, I help them. I view the world with equality; nobody is below me, nobody is above me.

And I know all of this is hurting my passability.

Its not hurting your passability at all, you act like a real gentleman - nothing can make you pass better. You act better than the guys of your age, be proud of it. So be a gentleman and dont worry about passing

[pamela_a]

IMO this world NEEDS more guys like you. I was taught to be polite and helpful and somehow that's fallen by the wayside.
As for passability. I'd accept you as a gentleman far quicker than as a jerk anyday.

Continue being who you are. Being a jerk doesn't make you more of a guy...it just makes you a jerk

-Pam-

[Ze]

Yay! The world isn't in as much of a shambles as I'd thought!

It's good to know that there are still a few people in the world that use and appreciate common decency. Hopefully my college is just a mess of spoiled brats. (Um...yay? Good thing it's my last year there.)

[Lorileah]

I agree with the above. Consider this, you want to pass, passing means blending so as you aren't overtly noticed, you noticed the jerks, thus they would NOT be "passing". (damn math got into this again). Works on our side too. Many of the girls here want to pass, not be noticed when out, some of us want to be seen (yes I am one, if I spend the time getting dressed up someone better notice) yet to do that I have to look like what most women would consider...overdressed? Flamboyant? ****ty? It is all in how you want to be perceived. 90% of the guys on your campus go through the day unnoticed, just living. The guys you "see" are making themselves obvious. Some GG's find this attractive and that reinforces the behavior. Yet, over time, if you notice, these relationships don't last. Look who stays together...the geeks ( sorry geeks ). They play the same games, eat the same foods, watch the same movies, and they don't beat the crap out of the other (either physically or mentally). The life of a "player" looks good and when you are young you don't consider long term effects. And IF you survive (some of the things these guys do seems like it should be natures way of eliminating the idiots) and you mature, being loud and obnoxious mellows until you are with a bunch of males in a bar. Then the "how high up on the tree" comes back.

I know you and I know that being an ass isn't what you want. But it gets attention...the wrong attention I would say but that is the same thing I am told about me. Remember my "secret" I told you? I didn't get to go with her by being an arrogant macho moronic jerk. I was shy and self effacing. So being yourself is much more attracting than being John Blutarski.

Dang I haven't had that soapbox out for weeks

[Scotty]

You know I've used to say "I may be a nice guy, but I sleep well at night".
(Now I can be a nice girl too!)

But sometimes guys just are jerks, and don't MEAN to be.

If they do something once and are a jerk it's just being a guy, but if it's how they live their life - they are just jerks.

[Ze]

If they do something once and are a jerk it's just being a guy, but if it's how they live their life - they are just jerks.

This is the little bit I disagree with. Well, I do agree that there's a difference between jerks and guys that do occasional jerky things, but I just don't like chalking up a jerk moment to "being a guy." I don't believe in free passes for being disrespectful to others, otherwise they might become more and more disrespectful because they either know they can get away with it or don't realize how mean they're being. (This is just my perspective based on what I've been seeing at my college.)

Now if they realize their mistake after being called out on it and try to make up for it and behave from now on, I'm all for it.

But yeah, I like how you said you can sleep at night. I can definitely relate to that. (I don't know how the jerks can sleep at night! )

[Sheila]

Ze, carry on being the man you are, I am Scottish like Nico (just I support a better football team than him Nico). It is also the way I brought my eldest son up and the way I am bringing my youngest up, and he is doing just fine . Let the louts (rich or not) carry on being just that LOUTS

[4serrus]

Solution: find another group of cisguys to emulate.

Seriously, if somebody told me that if I wanted to be seen as a real man I had to act like some high-horse trust fund kiddie with a stick shoved so far up my ass I couldn't bend over properly I'd punch them in the goddamn face.

[AmandaM]

Interesting. I'm part Native American so my Asian friends tell me stuff. One viewpoint is that white American males behave poorly. I know that's probably a stereotype, but I have seen a "trend" myself. I'm sure it goes across all races and nationalities. But, y'know, the working class or lower-middle class I find, usually act better. I don't know why. Maybe it has to with the upper-classes having to act that way to succeed in business, etc. I don't know. Maybe it's just my personal experiences.

[Tamara Croft]

There's nothing nicer than an old school gentleman. I love having doors opened for me, my seat pulled out and pushed in at restaurants etc... having the car door opened and closed for me (although that's probably being a bit snobby lol)... alas... someone should tell my Tam

[Misty is Kindafem]

Boys are very competitive with each other. That's been the root of my trouble fitting in for my whole life. I never cared if I'm faster or stronger or can jump higher.

Men are always measuring themselves against each other and I believe it's an evolutionary trait for them to do so.

Put a single girl in a room full of swarthy men and watch the action. It's predictable and primitive and guess what, it works.

On a certain level they can't help "out jerking" each other. One guy says or does something "hilarious" and another guy has to do something even bigger. This behavior is probably at its zenith during the frat boy years.

Those among us that are more sensitive have a tough time being part of this club, as well we should.

Men are pigs. They're dirty, crass, disgusting, and vulgar. They're much different then gurls like me and a species apart from women, but they are what they are and I can't help but be attracted to more than a few of them.

Now, manners on the other hand, are another matter. There is just no excuse for rudeness.

-Misty

[SirTrey]

I think I'm stereotypically male in a lot of ways, but I am definitely a gentleman....I open doors 100% of the time....walk on the street side if we are walking down the street....always carry the bags, carry in the groceries....do all of the lifting....all of that stuff....I suppose I can be insensitive at times...proably because I don't relate to things emotionally in the same way, so I don't realize I am doing it....but I try hard to be the kind of man that she can feel safe and "cared for" with.

[GypsyKaren]

It's always better to stick out as a nice guy than to blend in as an asshole...

Karen

[Jonianne]

.......But I'm still proud of being a polite boy. So there.

Fantastic Ze! You pattern your life the way you feel it should be. Be proud of who you are. If one role model doesn't work for you, find one that does or become your own role model. Nothing wrong with that!

My youngest son (who you look like) will tip the person in the window of a drive-thru fast food place. He told me that if they do a good job then they deserve that too. That blew me away about his consideration of others!

[Ze]

My youngest son (who you look like) will tip the person in the window of a drive-thru fast food place. He told me that if they do a good job then they deserve that too. That blew me away about his consideration of others!

Oh wow. I'd never thought of that before! If he doesn't mind, I'm going to steal his idea and do it myself.

[Stitch]

Look who stays together...the geeks ( sorry geeks ). They play the same games, eat the same foods, watch the same movies, and they don't beat the crap out of the other (either physically or mentally).

Wooo Geeks! *Waves a big flag* I love geeks, I'm a geek, my boyfriend is a geek, my brothers a geek and so are the majority of my friends.

I wouldn't worry so much Ze. Anyone who would only accept you as a man because of jerkiness isn't worth the time or effort. I realise that at this age (early 20s) it can be hard to fit in with our peers as the majority are all doing the partying, drinking and generally making asses of themselves. I feel your pain, I'm regarded as an oddity because I don't do what most girls my age are interested in doing.

My boyfriend is a true gentleman (that cross dresses occasionally) and I just love it! He opens car doors for me, pulls out chairs for me to sit down, offers to carry my bags, never swears, is always amazingly polite and sweet. He is very old fashioned. It honestly makes my heart melt. Put him in a suit and I'm pretty much a puddle of swoon. I'm not old fashioned in any sense of the word but he makes feel all aflutter when he does things like that for me.

I always try to be polite. Wish people good days, hold open doors/gates, pick stuff up if they drop them. One thing I've noticed that goes down well is when passing someone walking, is to meet their eyes and say "good morning/afternoon" Older people always seem to smile. Most people seem to walk around with frowns on their faces and stare at the floor. Not many people swap common greetings for no reason anymore.

For what its worth Ze, I dig your style. Just be yourself, and anyone who's worth their salt will accept you because your you. Be proud of who you are.

[Adam]

Dont fall into the trap of what other guys do or dont do i never have and never will try to be anyone but me i dont swear i treat all people eqal because we are.

Respect and kindness is how i go by and it has seved me well.

i remember at start of my transtion i read pages how to pass and be a man and i thought it was odd because if you a man your a man they come in all sorts there is gentleman like me and my 4 brothers and my father is and then there is people that are just not!!!

[Sandra]

Ze you carry on doing what you do and you'll earn a lot more respect that those "jerks" It's a pity there is aren't more guys like you around.

[Misty is Kindafem]

hmmmm.

I think I'm crushing a little bit on Trey.

-Misty

[SirTrey]

Awwww.....Thanks, Misty....I'm very flattered.....

[MiraM]

It could be for a multitude of reasons, I'm sure, but it finally dawned on me: the peers I "should" be emulating in order to pass are nothing but sexist, rude, over-privileged, narcissistic jerks. No, this isn't really a surprise to me since I've been studying blind privilege and senses of entitlement for so long, but I guess it finally hit home for me.

Seems they should be the ones emulating you Ze. You are one of the few of a dieing breed, and I hope you never change. There is nothing wrong with being a polite, considerate, well mannered man. The world needs more of them.

Men are pigs. They're dirty, crass, disgusting, and vulgar.
-Misty

Semms you are using a rather wide brush to paint all men with. I am a man, and my husband is a man, and niether of us fit into that description. Maybe you should have said SOME men are that way. Placing all men in that category is no different than saying that all CD's are gay or perverts (which we know is not true and is what most people here are trying to get people to understand). If you paint a group with a brush that wide, be prepared to be painted with an even wider one.