Rough night

[Miss Anthropic]

Having a bit of a rough night and feel like I need to say something but I'm not sure how or what exactly I'm feeling. If this post doesn't make any sense (which it won't) just ignore it please.

Tonight my SO and I went shopping at the local mall and hit a girly clothing store while we were there. We went in and she browsed thru things while I stood near, peering over her shoulder at the clothes because I'm still too embarrassed to look thru them myself.

She found a few cute things and asked me if I wanted to get them to which I pretty much said no to because they were either too expensive or they just weren't my style. No big deal really, I mean, we're two different people and like some different things.

The problem was is that there were a few things I really liked that she totally bypassed or didn't even look at to begin with because they weren't her thing and I could not bring myself to tell her "Hey, I want to look at that" As much as I was screaming it inside, I just couldn't do it.

So of course I immediately get frustrated and mad at myself when we leave the store. Apparently I'm not very good at hiding my feelings and my SO could tell I was in a bad mood. Me being in a bad mood of course got her into a bad mood and really killed the evening for a bit.

After we had dinner and left the mall things were going ok, we hit another place and did a little shopping. I got a cute top thing there and both our moods began to lighten. On the way home I told her that we have slightly different styles and maybe I should show her more of what I like so she has some idea what to look out for when we're shopping together. She asked me what styles I liked and I couldn't really tell her so she started naming off these types of styles which I knew nothing about. I kind of joked around about it, but deep down it made me feel really bad and inferior because I didn't really know what she was talking about.

When we got home I brought up a few pages of things that I liked and didn't like. I got half way thru one page of tops and she said "You just like girly t-shirts." I don't think she meant it to come out like it did, but to me it was very condescending; kinda like "You like that, wow, you're really stupid and naive for liking that." I got so embarrassed my face turned bright red and I felt like I was going to cry. God, I'm starting to tear up just thinking about it agian. Instantly I started to shut down, I didn't want to talk or even look at her. She started prodding me with "what is your problem?" and I began to get angry and yelled out what my problem was, which she didn't understand at all and got even more angry at me.

She really has been great with the CD'ing and I know I'm completely the one with the problem here, but I don't know what to do. It is so incredibly hard for me to share this stuff with her; it was tougher getting up the nerve to show her those clothes online tonight than it was to ask her out for the first time which was really difficult.

I dunno, not that this is how it was intended, but both times tonight I felt like I was being called out, like an assualt on my femme credibility and to be honest I don't feel like I have any.

Not to get too split personality here but....

When things such as that happen, it's like the Sara part of me turns into an abused child and cowers away in tears into the corner of my mind, bracing for the next blow.

All that's left then is a guy in girls clothes and while he has protected Sara for years by hiding her away, that guy in girls clothes doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to an argument about anything feminine and can't protect her this time. Like a dog who only knows how to protect himself by barking and biting, that's usually when the anger comes out and everyone gets hurt.

Sara hasn't been out long enough to learn and grow and be able to form an identity, to be able to say "This is who I am, this is what I like, deal with it." I'm working on that but it's a slow and bumpy road.

I'm so incredibily sensitive right now it's crazy, I wish I knew how to magically be ok with all of this, but it seems like time is the only thing that will allow me to grow and heal. I get mad at myself for being so sensitive about this, I don't want my SO to have to walk around on egg shells but like I said I don't know I can do to not be this way right now other than to banish myself to the woods or something for six months so she doesn't have to deal with me. That or shove all this stuff back into the closet....

<sigh>I don't know, I'm just so grumpy with myself right now for feeling this way and putting someone else thru my BS.

Has anyone else felt like this or gone thru an overly sensitive time with coming to terms with the CD'ing?

[Holly]

Sara... . Do you think you could say something like this to your wife:
"Honey, I know you are trying to help and I do so appreciate it. But sometimes I feel like you are talking down to me and I feel hurt by that. I know you don't mean it that way, but that is how it feels to me. This is still very new to me and I'm trying so hard to learn as much as I can about women's styles and so many other things I have so little knowledge in. I really need your help. I love you for the support you have given me so far. I will try harder to open my feelings to you more and not wear them on my sleeve so much. A word of encouragement once in a while would mean the world to me. I love you."

Now, don't say these things if you don't mean them. But that is the feeling I get from reading your post. Evidently your wife is not having too much trouble with your dressing, and that's a good thing! But honestly, if these shopping trips keep turning into unpleasant experiences, I'm afraid you may find her changing her position. Who wants to keep doing something where the result is unpleasant? Let us know how it goes.

[Miss Anthropic]

I truly do feel that way Holly and I feel awful for asking so much of her to begin with, much less needing anthing more.

I know what you mean about the shopping trips, luckily we have a had a few good trips in between, so I do feel like there is progress being made but I wish it was coming quicker.

[tricia_uktv]

Isn't the only aqnswer to pluck up courage and shop for yourself. Its a lot easier than you think, believe me.

[Rogina B]

Not only should you go out and about enfemme,shop for yourself and develop your own style.Eventually,your SO will learn your likes and dislikes and hopefully keep you in mind when browsing.Just do it!

[Sarah_GG]

From a GG perspective... my SO and I have been shopping together since last summer. It's getting better but it's still difficult. Because my SO doesn't want to give himself away as a bloke being interested in dresses he stands behind me as I look through the rails. We have totally different tastes in clothing. I'm not in any way drawn to anything pink or 'girly', lacey or spangly. But he is.

I sensed his frustration early on so now I say "If there's anything you want to look at please say or steer me in the right direction". Most times he does but I still sense his frustration because I can't read is mind! What's more, when we're in the shops he behaves like a typical bloke and pretends to be there under duress, even to the point of bad-tempered whistling under his breath!

I've been into many shops with him standing sheepishly behind me and another couple will come in and the man will - unabashed - start looking through the rails, holding things up and looking at the price. No one bats an eyelid! I point this out to my SO and tell him to be a bit more forthright in his browsing. He's getting marginally better.

These things can add up to both of us feeling frustrated at the whole shopping experience. I'd say talk to your SO about the shopping and work out signals.

When you're feeling frustrated and your SO snaps at you, you take it personally because, maybe, you feel ridiculous anyway. You get defensive, she gets defensive and the whole thing escalates into you feeling like you do. Please try not to take it too much to heart when she says something about you liking something 'girly' - she's just trying to get the measure of what you like against what she holds up as the norm for her! IMHO!

Happy shopping

[PetiteDuality]

I think your SO in wonderful and you might be overreacting over very normal disagreements between two individual with different tastes.

It is normal to feel insecure and perhaps a bit judged. It is hard for her to know you as a female if this is something very new for her. It would be great if you can build your female self, go shopping, build a wardrobe and an own style.

From the very inside of my heart, I recommend you to look some help to learn how to overcome this, because you have a wonderful and accepting girl, and as you can learn from this site, this is something very difficult to find. I'm sure you don't want to loose that.

[nicole 555]

My wife does the same thing we both have dif tastes what she like i do not. We went out two time shopping and both times i ended up in a bad mood, they know what buttons to push or what to say to get your goat and then i just get upset and shut down. Then she want to know whats are you mad at. I like to say it you but it would just make things worst . I been with her 29 years and she knew i cd the hole time but they remember only what they want about you cd at times

[Di]

I would explain it to her now that things have cooled down ( why you think you act like that and so on)....because she might take it personally when it seems she is trying and just say do it yourself if it ends up being a hassle everytime.
But think about it....if you step in and say what about this...when you find something you like...........no one is going to think a thing...men shop for wives and girlfriends ALL THE TIME and it will look like you are trying to help find her something.

[carrie-ann]

You both will have differant styles thats the way it is. Don't take her help in a bad way she is learning what you like and don't like.I agree with some of the post. #1 when you both are out show her what you like she may not like it it's not a problem she see's what she likes. #2 Go shopping for you for her many men do. #3 don't take it personaly.#4 be honest with her about what you like and don't like.

[Nicole Brown]

If I were you, I would be very grateful for a wife who is understanding, supportive and takes an active role in my crossdressing. I wish I had the 'problems' that you have instead of my 'problem' which consist of a totally unsupportive wife. I also think I would, as others have suggested, begin venturing out on my own and doing my own shopping.

I have been doing exactly this for nearly 3 years now and it is a wonderful feeling to select a dress, try it on and make the purchase all while dressed en fem.

Nicole

[Stephanie Miller]

I think you did a fine job of explaining your problems and reactions let alone your feeling enough in your post that you should consider printing it out and letting her read it. Then work as a team to come up with a solution - let it be words, hand signals or winks - when you in the store to work with. You might also give her the chance to show you different styles she likes. There are many times my wife has brought things home for me that at first I thought there was no way I would wear it -but it turned out to be a favorite after it grew on me

Still... all in all, venting to us might help a little but communicating to her will help a LOT!

[TGMarla]

Everyone has given you some really good advice here. You need to take the chill-pill with her, and be grateful she's even willing to put herself out there and help you. You don't know how lucky you are. You're biting the hand that's trying to feed you. You very articulately described your feelings to us, yet you fail to do so to the person you need to be closest to. I think to some extent we can all relate to how you're feeling, but in order for her to help you, you have to help her help you.

I think you ought to do something nice for her, and tell her why you act the way you do, then promise her that you'll try harder to get over it and be more helpful and less angry. And stop being so hard on yourself and on her when she's trying to help you. She's doing something to bring you two together, and you're pushing her away. Keep pushing, and she may well stay away. Now chill out!

[mklinden2010]

Have I felt bad about discussing Cding, buying clothes, etc.?

Sure... But, not for long and/or not for long at a time.

It's important to just answer the damn question:

"What do you think of this? Would you like to try on that?" and so forth.

Just get on with it, trust your feelings, and, get something - even a little at a time - done.

"Uh, no. I think there are too many people here today. But, show me what you think might work and we can talk about it later. And... I'm going to look around and if I see something maybe you can give me an informed opinion."

It helps to say, "I dunno. Frankly, I'm kind of embarassed to be so stupid about all that. You're soooooo much better at this than I am. Can we keep it simple? Maybe just one of these and one of those - maybe something that mixes and matches with where we started?"

Just go at it like anything else. If she wants you to "tell" her which car to buy - meaning don't let her screw up the next purchase - you would be patient, right?"

Let it work both ways.

Nobody expects perfection. They can be very happy with "comfortable."

Get there together.

[PretzelGirl]

There are a lot of good thoughts, but I am thinkning along with Marla. As you try everyone's suggestions and talk with your wife, try and reign in the anger and frustration. If you don't, we will next be reading that my wife is unaccepting because everytime we do something CD related, she says I turn into a monster instead of her loving husband.

Take a deep breath. It won't all come overnight, but it will come.

[Tina B.]

One way I solved that problem when my wife and I first started shopping together, when I came out to her was I would say "hey I think this would look good on you", and she knew I meant, I like this one!
Even an understanding wife has trouble reading our minds, and will be looking at the things that they like, thinking everyone would like it. And oh you like girlly tee's is not a put down, it is oh I didn't know, because that's not the kind of thing I like. you need to remember She is on your side, really, otherwise she would not be there shopping for what you want!
It's hard to get over that wounded child feeling, and to learn trust in someone, over something you have kept bottled up for so long, keep trying, and be quick to say I'm sorry when you lose it, and make sure she knows it's you not her, and you love her even more for all her efforts.
Good luck!
Tina

[Dana921]

You have the answers from other posters as well as from yourself! Excuting or getting it done IS the next step! If understanding about the different styles is an issue for you, then learn about it! Go online to the different clothing sites and see what the manufacturers call their different styles of clothes and make a list of what you think you would like, or at least print out the photos.

On the relationship side, I went through a period where I had to write out what my feelings were because I became to tongue tied to express them to my other half! It may be seem silly, but it at least got the communication lines open between us! Stephanie pointed out you did a good job expressing yourself in your post, I agree, print that out and let your wife read it if that is the only way to let her know your feelings! But do not let her go down a path that has her believing that all she is trying to do is help and support you and you get upset, so she withdraws her support and acceptance!

When asked why I could now talk about my feelings more than ever before to the person I live my life with, my answer was simply, you already know I am a guy in a dress, my darkest secret, what else is left to hide? So nothing to lose now and everything to gain by expressing myself to her!


Dana

[LeslieSD]

You are getting mad at your SO for helping you to shop and dress just because she has a different taste? Many of us here could only dream an SO like that. You could be more grateful.

By the way, if you like a style or a particular piece, just tell it to your SO at the rack. Nobody possess the power to read your mind. You have to let others to help you.

Most of us are not experts in woman's style. Keep an open mind and listen to suggestions does not hurt. You can still decide on what you want. What's the point of being angry for suggestions.

[Ralph]

A lot of good suggestions here. Let me add a few things taken from two decades of marriage...

1) Your wife is not a mind reader. It is absolutely against the rules to get angry with her for not knowing what you don't tell her. Couples who can complete one another's every thoughts only exist in movies and romance novels. If you find yourself getting angry that she just doesn't "get it", it's because you have not communicated effectively with her. And if you find yourself angry about that, admit to both of you that you're angry with yourself, not her.

2) Related to the last sentence, when you lash out of course she is going to think you're on the attack, and she in turn will pull out her claws in defense. This can only end badly. So if this happens, *as soon as possible* explain the real problem to her, and assure her that it is not her fault. This may have to wait until you have both cooled off - hours or days - but the longer you put it off, the worse the pain will spread.

3) Assume that she is not out to get you. So many arguments we have had came about because one or the other did or said something in all innocence -- trying to help, or trying to make light conversation or a joke -- and the other perceived it as some kind of threat instead. You have no reason to believe "Oh, you just like girly things" was a deliberate attempt to hurt you. She was most likely trying to categorize what you like, so she can file that information away for future reference. Another possibility is that your tastes are so radically different from hers it made her uneasy, and a lot of people deflect discomfort with a joke. She didn't understand how important this was to you or how upset you were about it, so she didn't realize that joking about it was inappropriate. When that happens, explain to her in POLITE, loving language that what she said made you feel bad because it sounded like she was mocking you. If you are so upset by what she said that you can't respond calmly, wait until you are calm before you try to talk about it.

Mrs. Ralph always says: "You can control what exactly one person in the world says and does." Since you can't direct the way other people think and speak and act, you can rise above the situation by showing how well you think and speak and act in response to them.

[sissystephanie]

I agree with what a lot of others have said here, especially Holly and Ralph! Your wife was not trying to put you down by saying, "you like girly tee shirts!" Girly Tee Shirts are designed to show off the feminine shape, unlike normal tee shirts which are for the most part unisex! Your wife was just stating that you like to look feminine! That was your cue to agree with her, and to ask for her help in getting that look. I speak from over 4 decades of being married to a very supportive lady. We had different clothing styles, but we worked it out. As a matter of fact, I picked out a lot of her clothes and she picked out a lot of mine (both Stephanie's and my male persona). Of course, the fact that I found a lot of her things on the clearance racks may have had something to do with it!! Lower prices always help!

Read some magazines, go online, etc., to find out what styles of clothing you prefer! Then, as many others have said, GO SHOPPING!!

[AllieSF]

So many good recommendations here. Stephanie Miller said it best when recommending that you just print out your intial post and use that as a starting point to explain your communication difficulties. IMHO your current issues have nothing to do with you being not up to speed on feminine styles and clothes. It is just a communication problem. I, like many here, have gotten divorced. I, like maybe some of those many, would have preferred to stay married if we could have only learned how to deal with the problems and issues that we had in out marriages. From my divorce experience, I learned that "What we have here, is a failure to communicate!" from the very old Paul Newman movie, Cool Hand Luke. Communication is not an easy process if we do not learn from previous experiences.

Your written post is very well written and articulate. It is an honest explanation of your confusions and frustrations. Your goal should be to strive to be able to do that verbally with your wife when needed. Sometimes it will work well and other times, not so well. However, by learning and practicing to always communicate openly and honestly, you will set the stage to enable both of you to tackle those really difficult problems that will need a lot of communication to work out. Though it may seem like it, this current issue is far from the really big one! Yes, it is easiest for you to tell us here in this wonderful safe haven that we have. It is also a good practice ground to get what you are feeling out in front of others where we can help you. However, this needs to be shared wirh the person that you love the most and obviously loves you the most too.

I do wish you all the best and just remember, "Communicate, Communicate and Communicate a whole lot more".

[kimmy p]

Hi Sara. Here is what my wife and I do when we are out shopping and I want to look for something Fem. When we are out and I see something that I like I make mention that it is something that Kim would like. By using my fem name in the third person, we can comfortably shop for whatever I want. Don't get frustrated, just shop smarter. And if anyone DOES happen to stare at you just smile mysteriously.

[ReineD]

Please, please, please, cut and paste your post and put it is MS Word or something, print it, give it to her, and ask her to read it slowly and carefully. Stay with her while she reads it. Tell her this is the only way you could begin to show her the war that's going on inside of you right now.

Believe it or not, GGs also have very strong feelings that are difficult to articulate and it is not a bad idea to write them out while alone so we can share them later.


Also, I know it's hard, but try to work on giving yourself permission to go through the clothes on the racks too. I've seen lots of guys shopping with their wives who will do this, and I've always taken it as if they were helping their wives look for stuff. It really wouldn't seem weird for you to do this.


EDIT Ooops, I've just read the other posts and my suggestions have already been offered. So look at my post as reinforcement.

[Sheila]

Hun we have already PM'd over this, so you know where I am coming from

To those of you who have jumped up and down with frustration at Miss Anthropic having a hard time talking to her SO as accepting as she is, maybe Miss Anthropic is having just as hard a time as some of you did way back in the beginning when you first told your SO, it is a scary process opening right up to someone when you yourself don't fully understand why you do what you do & if you love someone, you are scared that you are going to look in their eyes and see the disgust you yourself are feeling about what you do ........ it's like waiting for the other shoe to drop, and expecting it at any moment ....... you just know it will tear your life apart.

Hun be gentler on yourself, trust your good lady, and trust in what you have together ............ she is a good one

[Miss Anthropic]

First of all thanks to everyone for all the advice and support, it's really fantastic to hear others thoughts and points of view on this.

I should point out that I am not, nor have I ever been mad at my So during any of this, I've only been angry and disgusted at myself which irritates her and we both end up mad at me.

Also I should point out that she is a member of this forum and is reading this thread across the room right now. Some have said to write out what I need to say and you all are exactly right. I can write out everything I'm feeling with no problem at all, even while she watches, but I just cannot get the words out of my mouth. Why? I wish I knew, but it just doesn't happen. I'm working on it but it's a slow process. I just want her to know how much I lover her and that none of this is a problem she has caused.

From a GG perspective... my SO and I have been shopping together since last summer. It's getting better but it's still difficult. Because my SO doesn't want to give himself away as a bloke being interested in dresses he stands behind me as I look through the rails. We have totally different tastes in clothing. I'm not in any way drawn to anything pink or 'girly', lacey or spangly. But he is.

I sensed his frustration early on so now I say "If there's anything you want to look at please say or steer me in the right direction". Most times he does but I still sense his frustration because I can't read is mind! What's more, when we're in the shops he behaves like a typical bloke and pretends to be there under duress, even to the point of bad-tempered whistling under his breath!

I've been into many shops with him standing sheepishly behind me and another couple will come in and the man will - unabashed - start looking through the rails, holding things up and looking at the price. No one bats an eyelid! I point this out to my SO and tell him to be a bit more forthright in his browsing. He's getting marginally better.

These things can add up to both of us feeling frustrated at the whole shopping experience. I'd say talk to your SO about the shopping and work out signals.

When you're feeling frustrated and your SO snaps at you, you take it personally because, maybe, you feel ridiculous anyway. You get defensive, she gets defensive and the whole thing escalates into you feeling like you do. Please try not to take it too much to heart when she says something about you liking something 'girly' - she's just trying to get the measure of what you like against what she holds up as the norm for her! IMHO!

Happy shopping

^^This.

This is exactly what has happened when we've had a bad shopping outting, I mean to the letter. I'm frustrated about my own inability to say "Hey, I want this" and she gets frustrated becuase she's trying to help me but is just met with this wall of maleness.

Things have been great today and now that she's read this things can only get better. As most of you have said, communication is the key.