why is it women can wear men type clothes /boots etc and nothing is said?
BUT VICA VERSA IS A BIG ISSUE
WHY?
why is it women can wear men type clothes /boots etc and nothing is said?
BUT VICA VERSA IS A BIG ISSUE
WHY?
Because...
that is always the big question isn't it? I asked my last GG friend the same question. She never really came up with a responce either.
Man! I feel like a woman!
Why would I want to wear mens clothesOriginally Posted by anita
why is it women can wear men type clothes /boots etc and nothing is said?
BUT VICA VERSA IS A BIG ISSUE
WHY?They suck....
Administrator
Missing my Libra babe Sherlyn, I hope she's rocking up there with the angels
Missing our Rianna, doesn't seem right, gone to early, hope she's partying with Sherlyn
TRISTEN WHY? MY WIFE WEARS TROUSERS TO WORK NO PROBLEM
iF I TURNED UP WEARING A SKIRT MAYHEM
WHO DECIDES
Tamara You Never Wear Trousers ?
Trousers aren't exclusively men's clothing
THe number of times I've seen this question asked and the number of times I've asked it myself... is ridiculous!
It truly is the whole point, isn't it!? *sigh*
No They Aren't But Neither Are Dresses The Exclusive Wear Of Women
The Greek Armed Guard Wear Skirts
The Scots Wear Kilts (no Offense Here)
A Lot Of Foreign Males Wear Attire Akin To A Dress
Put It This Way .some "celebrity" Wears A Gypsy Skirt. All Of A Siudden Girls Arte Wearing Gypsy Skirts For The Summer Instead Of Jeans . Yes?
So If Some Male "celebrities " Suddenly Appeared Wearing A Skirt Of Some Nature And The Guys Copied As A Fashion Statement Would It All Suddenly Become Wear What You Like Or Would The Stigma Still Apply
After Al It Is Abit Of Cloth Nothing More Nothiong Less
I too have asked this question alot and thought about it alot. I think the answer is men, plain and simple. All the girls I have come out to have no problem with whatever clothes I want to wear. I think that the men in the world are the ones with the problem. Most men are just way to afraid to do anything feminine or accept anything feminine. There are some exceptions of course, but for the most part, I think until the average male attitude changes, this will continue to be the question we all ask.
I've come to the same conclusion as Jolien. I believe it's all down to men. The majority of men want to portray a masculine image as much as possible, purely for the benefit of their friends/family. For them to simply accept a guy in a skirt, they would then think there friends believe he is also a big girlie, which in his mind, being a macho type, is unacceptable.
I have no problem going out in a skirt and walking by a group of women, but walking by a gang of lads? - That's the only thing that puts me off.
Last edited by ~Tammy~; 07-24-2005 at 05:56 PM.
Yes of course I wear trousers, but they AREN'T mens trousers. They are designed for women. The whole point is this, women wear what they want because they couldn't care less what anyone else thinks. If I want to wear trousers, then I'll wear them. If you want to wear a skirt, then by all means go out and wear one. There is NO law stating you can't, it's because society has it drummed in it's thick head that skirts are for GIRLS. So..... you say it's NOT fair.... well if it's not fair.... go out and shout from the roof tops that you want to wear what the hell you like and sod the rest of youOk? gonna do it then??
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Missing my Libra babe Sherlyn, I hope she's rocking up there with the angels
Missing our Rianna, doesn't seem right, gone to early, hope she's partying with Sherlyn
Do you have to be right all the time? Oh wait, you're a GG - never mind
Anita,
It wasn't always this way, at least not here in America. In Indian cultures they thought the transgendered person was a gift from the gods. There were many different names used to refer to them but 'Berdache' or 'Two Spirit' seem to be the most common. The Indian tribes, with the exception of the few warring tribes like Commanche and Sioux, felt the Berdache were gifted because they could relate to both men and women. They were counselors, Medicine Men (Women), tribal chieftans or other positions deemed to be of great importance. They dressed like women but did not use any false enhancements to make themselves pass as a woman. That would have been seen as foolish when you are already revered as a holy person just the way you are.
Once the English way of life was injected into their cultures the Berdache were no longer revered and soon became outcasts. When you think how Indian philosophy was, it seemed like such a simple common sense way to view life. They tended to see the good in people and things and accept it for who or what they are. The uptight Victorian beliefs pretty much changed all that. What a shame.
Here's some info if you're interested in reading more.
The Two Spirit People
The Berdache
The Two Spirit Tradition
The Berdache Spirit
Its a marketing thing.why is it women can wear men type clothes /boots etc and nothing is said?
BUT VICA VERSA IS A BIG ISSUE
WHY?
The manufactures are burdened with warehouses full of boring, ugly, non-descript mens clothes. They have to keep the men not wearing womans clothes prejudices alive or they'll never be able to unload the stuff.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Generally, it implies on the hierarchical structure between men and women in our society. Men are positioned above women in importance and power, hence a woman trying to be a man is simply seen as a woman trying to improve her station in life. At worst, it's seen as 'cute', like when a small child dresses up like an adult.
On the reverse, though, it implie that men who are becoming women are somehow giving something up and demeaning themselves, which is why it's seen as so comical. A sort of 'Heehee... look at that silly, stupid person doing such a silly, stupid thing" mentallity.
That's part of the reason everybody focuses so much on MtFs in TV shows and talk shows and whatnot, while FtMs are essentially invisible. In society's view, women don't matter overall, even the ones who are foolish enough to think they're men. Meanwhile, a man who wants to become a woman (being so stupid, as above) is a spectacle to be mocked and derided and held out as a poor example, so other men won't be so stupid.
And this is a theme that's been with western culture for thousands of years now. Isn't it neat?
For whatever reason, women have historically had to fight for the right to be equal to men.
At the dawn of the United States' inception, I believe that when census polls were done, women were considered 1/2 a person, and slaves 1/5th. Women had to fight for rights to work in the same areas as men, then they had to fight for certain rights in the workplace (hard to work when you're 9 months pregnant or just gave birth).
They had to fight to keep out of abusive relationships (decades ago women had to fight for rape laws, as many rapes were often unreported [and still are], and there was more than a bit of chauvanism in the courtroom; and longer ago than that women fought the battle for prohibition of alcohol to keep from being beat to death by abusive drunken husbands).
Men, being the status quo, have become accustomed to sitting around, complaining "oh, how come minorities get special treatment, how come everything is sexual harassment, blah blah" but in actuality what we're seeing is a bit of balancing of the scales after centuries of one sided social values. If it tips too much in one direction we call "foul", but it's not like we're getting beaten to death. In actuality, we as crossdressers are fairly well protected (although not always, as a few posts have shown) by hate crime legislation, due to backbone by alot of gay and minority groups who were getting kinda tired of being lynched.
Fairly recently, the whole "women in pants" movement was hard fought by many women. In the times of the industrial revolution, pictures of women in "knickers" was a kind of pornography, somewhat akin to the BDSM movement of today. And certain celebrites had the backbone to wear pants, despite public ridicules. I was watching a special on Katherine Hepburn after she passed away, and Barbara Walters was asking her when she was ever going to wear a skirt, since she was well known for always wearing trousers. The grand dame's response was "I'll wear a skirt to your funeral"
Some celebrities have started trying to get men in skirts more in the public eye, like recently with Vin Diesel in a leather kilt. It'll be a slow process, but it'll happen. We as crossdressers have to stop letting other people fight our battles for us, what with the social and political impact of Stonewall, and all the equality movements in the 60's and 70's. Anything worthwhile must be fought for, and we've been sitting on our hands all this time.
O
"If there's trouble, all us freaks have is each other" ~ Abe Sapien, Hellboy
all of the males who know me and have seen me wearing a skirt wether it be fully dressed or me in just pantyhose and a skirt DONOT have any problems with it,, because they know ME the person inside the skirt
I have a feeling that its also something to do with living in a primarily patriarchal society. Historically men were seen as superior to women, with more power and more freedom. In the struggle for equality, women appropriated men's clothing as a way of acquiring some of that freedom. (e.g. I imagine it's far easier to climb a mountain dressed in trousers and boots, than wearing a corset, full length skirt with several petticoats and heels!) However, on the whole men would not have choosen to wear women's clothes, as that would have been taking on the dress of people seen as subservient or second class.
Unfortunately, whilst the fight for equality - over decades if not centuries - has made it ok for women to wear what were traditional men's clothes, it hasn't yet got there for men to wear whatever they like. I've no doubt it will change eventually, we all just need to keep shouting about it.
Of course, we may all end up wearing unisex jump suits - assuming the vision of the future put forward by some sci-fi films comes true!
P
PS I've snuck in from the FTM side, so I hope you don't my me sticking my two pence worth in - I find the fact that there is this dichotomy very interesting.
PPS Ashley and Ophelia you are obviously faster typists than me - I started this reply yonks ago!
Last edited by Puer; 07-24-2005 at 06:55 PM.
There was another thread that covered this same subject about two weeks ago and it had a lot of good comments. Check it out.
Did you find that search button hmm?? or did you become Mystic Julie
Administrator
Missing my Libra babe Sherlyn, I hope she's rocking up there with the angels
Missing our Rianna, doesn't seem right, gone to early, hope she's partying with Sherlyn
Fantastic reply, Ophelia. You put it far better than I did. P
I've read the various responses here and the only one that makes any sense at all is Tristen's "because".
Luvya
Yes, except this is an entirely different 'North America' than it was back then. Now it is North America: Part of western civilzation. Then it was 'The new world'. The native populations sparsely populated across the continent in comparison to Europe. You can't say 'It wasn't always like this' because you are of western decent, infact, judging by the picture thread, this forum is white enough that a Klu Klutz Klan meeting could be held here. The 'two spirit' thing wasn't as widely spread as people belive or report, it's just that any online article makes anything appear to be wide spread. Not that it didn't exist either. Of course now, it pretty much dosn't exist, most all Native American cultures have been assimilated. Welcome to the 21st century.
Thanks Puer
Interesting point about the mountain climbing with the heels. I'd try it out myself, but I hate scuffing patent leather, plus don't feel like squealing like a pig to some mountain man
O
"If there's trouble, all us freaks have is each other" ~ Abe Sapien, Hellboy
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