The Agony and the Ecstasy...

[DaphneGrey]

Sorry, but that sounds to me more like a prison than a marriage.

She came back unexpectedly (and who knows, maybe she wanted to "test" her control over you). Obviously you wouldn't have done that if you knew she'd be back.

If she's not one of those "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" types, I strongly suggest some therapy with a truly neutral therapist.

Maybe she just wanted to drop off her suitcase and get breafast. Unless there was a prior arrangement and it doesn't seem like the case. I don't think she did anything wrong. Her house after all.

The thing I love about these threads is that we never get the wives side of the story. Don't ask or tell means don't leave your clothes and purse out so your wife can find it.

If you need time to dress work it out with your so and then if she comes home early you can complain. It's called mutual respect, works pretty well in my opinion. Try putting yourselves in her shoes.

These jump on the band wagon beat up the wife threads are getting really old!

[Shadeauxmarie]

I'm sorry you have not received more positive comments. I would like to say that you seem to have caught her at a bad time. I mean to say she caught YOU at a bad time. Apparently, several on this board belive you are selfish and oafish for not performing in a manner in alignment with their preconceived notions of familial responsibilities. Who does yard work, fixes things, and babysits grandchildren is based with each family.

About leaving the clothes out when she came home early, people should search this forum for how many times the wife/so find out initially about the crossdressers hobby when they came home early. Or similar themes.

My suggestion would be to lay low and try to make up by showering her with attention and affection.

[Lorileah]

I am sure that more attention, jewelry and a nice dinner will make thinks all hunky dory.

What we have here is a failure to communicate. I am beginning to believe who ever said there are no accidents. When you leave things strewn around you want to get caught

[sherri52]

Leslie: I'm sorry you had to go through that. I hope you don't have to wait to long before things are back to normal. I'm glad you got to have that awesome day on Thursday.

[ReineD]

Leslie, your wife does not feel secure in your relationship. She feels that Leslie took her husband away. She sees Leslie and the other GGs that Leslie can't wait to interact with as the "other women". She feels bitter because her marriage didn't turn out the way she had hoped, with a partner who cherishes her companionship more than spending time with other women.

She saw red when she saw your stuff and reacted with rage. When I found out my ex had been with another woman a long time ago, I couldn't control myself. I screamed, "How could you?" and I pummelled his chest with my fists. Then I grabbed my baby, got in the car and drove around aimlessly while my son slept in his car seat for I don't know how long. I'm crying just thinking about it. I felt betrayed, marginalized, unloved. I eventually returned home not knowing what else to do. My marriage did survive for another 20 years, but it was never the same after this.

I know that being Leslie is not akin to having an affair. But your wife does not know this. She prefers not knowing about the CDing because to her, facing its reality would mean having to come to terms with the knowledge that you prefer a different life than being her husband. Staying in denial is the only way your wife knows how to stay in her marriage and achieve some level of happiness.

The two of you need to get to the bottom of this. You need to decide exactly who you are and what you want and your wife needs to have her misconceptions about the CDing dispelled.


Your title, the Ecstasy part. I think your wife at some level knows that she does not cause this reaction in you and that nothing you do with her would come close to experiencing being Leslie. I understand the issue from your point of view, but still it is a sad situation in any relationship and it is one of the things that makes it difficult for wives to be supportive.

[trepidatiousUK]

What we have here is a failure to communicate...

"I don't like it... anymore than you do."

Leslie.

By way of introduction, I'm a site newby, but I've been dressing since about the age of 7. Bizarrely, my first experience was in the bath with a pair of my mother's tights that had been left on the radiator to dry. That aside, back to your predicament...

First thing I'd want to get clear is why do you cross dress? you call yourself Leslie, but is there an alternate personality to go with that? Have you any intention... or desire... to be en femme full-time, or physically become a woman?

Understanding yourself is the key to rebuilding your relationship with your wife. I agree with a previous contributor, your wife is undoubtedly scared, possibly jealous.

CDing is difficult to quantify, there are so many different reasons why we do it, and so many different levels to which we take it, but whatever the extent of your "habit" / "hobby" your "indulgence" you keep if a secret from your wife.... In my experience secrets kept from your wife are a bad bad thing.

Sure, she's not likely to be easily approachable on this one, but if you want stay married you are going to have to tackle it... together. Maybe that means she helps you leave Leslie behind, maybe it means she tags along on a girly shopping trip whilst your en femme and you have a great time, it could be there's a half way house.

I would advise against laying low and waiting for this to blow over, it won't, it will fester, and the next time you get caught it will all be over... and if it heads to court I wouldn't want to be your defense lawyer.

Sorry for such a long post... feel quite strongly

in summary

understand who and what you are
try every way possible to talk about it with your wife
find a compromise and set the ground rules

be prepared for "If you really love me you won't do that anymore" ... it's a killer

t

[Leslie Langford]

... for the valuable insights that you have provided me with on how to deal with my situation and re-establish domestic tranquility, including some of the "reality checks" and $$-kickings that a few of you handed out and which I probably deserved. But in the end, isn't that what friends are for?

Reine, you probably encapsulated my particular challenges the best, and I could almost hear my wife mouthing some of your words as I read them. Yes, she does see "Leslie" as a mistress of sorts and while she claims to be sympathetic to my transgender-ism in terms finally realizing that it is something that I am as opposed to something that I chose to be (albeit still confused and somewhat repelled by it), we just can't seem to get past this roadblock.

It really ends up being a vicious circle - the more my crossdressing annoys her and the nastier she gets about it, the more I withdraw into "Leslie" world every chance I get. Pretty much a standard crossdresser response I would guess, as we all know that this is the principle way in which we deal with stress. You would think that I would at least get some "Brownie points" for not seeking solace in the arms of another woman the way most "real" men would tend to do when a relationship starts to turn toxic, but that is not the case. Instead, I get told how demeaned she feels because in her eyes, I appear to get more enjoyment out of my so-called "box of clothes" rather than seeking a deeper and more intimate relationship with her. But not being a masochist, my willingness to come back for new bouts of derision and/or abuse is decidedly limited.

And it's not as if I haven't tried all of the suggestions some of the others here have made to make my wife feel wanted and appreciated. But my wife also happens to have a very controlling personality, has a tendency to be hyper-critical, is never wrong, and if, out of 10 things I do 9 "right", she will gloss over them and harp on the one thing that I didn't do to her satisfaction.

It seems that in our household, the maximum amount of time that we can bask in the glow of a happy event (e.g. an evening out for dinner, going to a show, celebrating special family occasions etc.) is about 3 days before some long term "issue" that is bothering her bubbles to the surface yet again and we are back off to the races. And these aren't necessarily issues related to my crossdressing - they can any one of my infinite number of other "bad" habits (in her eyes) that we have already sliced, diced, and julienned at her prompting as though they had gone through one of Ron Popeil's Veg-O-Matics. In most cases, these have already been discussed ad nauseum throughout our many years of marriage, but somehow the ability to let go of them and just agree to disagree and move on seems to elude her.

So, do I come across as being self-centered when I gravitate more and more towards my crossdressing and associated activities such as shopping for women's' clothing, going "out and about" en femme increasingly frequently, and looking for validation by having positive interactions with other GG's such as my make up artist, nail salon owner, and friendly SA's - yes, probably. But it's not as if I haven't been pushed in that direction to some degree as well.

I have tried (sometimes with humour) to convince my wife that there are actually benefits to having a crossdressing spouse (love of shopping, ability to coordinate nice looking outfits, make up help, commiserating over ill-fitting bras or uncomfortable shoes etc.). In other words, with a crossdressing husband or SO, a woman - if she can get her mind around it - can actually have a traditional male partner and a "girlfriend" all wrapped up in one. Some of the GG's here seem to be able to embrace that particular mindset, but I gather that they are also in the minority. Certainly my experience reflects that particular reality. So if a wife is so steadfast in her unwillingness to share in an activity that her partner enjoys - even for the sake of his happiness and the greater good of the marriage - is it so wrong for that partner to go it alone?

Some wives become "golf widows" and prefer to wallow in their resentment and self-pity rather than join their partners on the links every summer weekend. Others, with equal indifference to the game initially, take the opposite approach and actually get involved in the sport as a way to reconnect with their partner and spend more quality time with him, thereby actually strengthening their relationship. Shouldn't it be the same with a woman allowing her partner "quality" crossdressing time when she finally realizes just how important it is to her mate? I certainly have done many things with my wife that I have absolutely zero interest in personally (e.g. going to craft shows, attending the Andre Rieu Christmas concerts when they come to town, seeing so many performances of "The Sound of Music" that I can practically recite the score verbatim etc.), so is it so unreasonable to expect a bit of reciprocity?

Sorry if I've blathered on too long on this subject, but as you can see, it is clearly a source of incredible frustration for me...

Still, I do appreciate all of your inputs so far. Identifying a problem is the easy part - finding a workable solution when the answers aren't necessarily clear-cut is a whole different matter. My dilemma is that I still love my wife deep down inside and I'm sure she still does me, as otherwise we wouldn't have made it through these 35+ years of marriage to date. At the end of the day, she is still the mother of my children, and having grown up as an only child and having experienced the trauma of my father committing suicide when I was a young adult and our children were still pre-teens, having a solid family life is exceptionally important to me. But I also can't give up my crossdressing as it is so much a part of me, and to do so would surely lead to a major clinical depression - and that is something which I have no desire to experience, if I can avoid it. It's beginning to sound more and more like the classical case of one person's right to swing their arms ending where the other one's nose begins, and coming to a resolution over whose needs take precedence over the other's ...

[ReineD]

Leslie, my heart goes out to you and your wife.

Unfortunately, you both are in a "Chinese Finger Trap" situation. The instinct is to pull away because you both are hurt, but the only solution is to put your differences aside and move back towards center.

This is extremely difficult to do when both parties feel injured. I say this with kindness, but sometimes I just want to go into people's homes and shake them by the shoulders to try to get them to see that taking a stubborn stance does nothing to move towards resolution. Moreover, adopting this position guarantees unhappiness as it greatly diminishes the quality of life. It is not until after the divorce if there is one that eventually the parties will realize what they had and what they lost. I speak from personal experience.

The only thing that is required from each of you is simply an attitude adjustment, not changing who you fundamentally are. Compassion. Open-mindedness. Understanding. It is doable if you both are willing.

Can you think of ways you might begin to try to dispel your wife's misconceptions of who you are and what you want? Someone has to start the process.

[Melinda G]

Beware of Murphys Law. If anything can go wrong, it always does! Count on it!

[Satrana]

Leslie

The dont ask dont tell compromise is always a lousy one that has a good chance of tearing relationships apart. All that happens is resentment builds up on both sides because both parties have essentially agreed to ignore the problem and not resolve it. Long term resentment turns into paranoia and hate and the relationship is doomed.

I don't know how you can get past her unwillingness to let go and move forward. You know your wife best, only you can come up with the right ideas. But the status quo does not work and you are both hurting badly and you know this scenario will be repeated again and again in the future.

Whatever you decide, you need to get rid of the dont ask dont tell stalemate. All it does is forestall the inevitable. For both your sakes move the relationship forward. The obvious paths would be therapy and support groups. If nothing works then you both need to think if there is any value left in the relationship.

[ReineD]

Leslie ...

[Leslie Langford]

Leslie, my heart goes out to you and your wife.

Unfortunately, you both are in a "Chinese Finger Trap" situation. The instinct is to pull away because you both are hurt, but the only solution is to put your differences aside and move back towards center.

This is extremely difficult to do when both parties feel injured. I say this with kindness, but sometimes I just want to go into people's homes and shake them by the shoulders to try to get them to see that taking a stubborn stance does nothing to move towards resolution. Moreover, adopting this position guarantees unhappiness as it greatly diminishes the quality of life. It is not until after the divorce if there is one that eventually the parties will realize what they had and what they lost. I speak from personal experience.

The only thing that is required from each of you is simply an attitude adjustment, not changing who you fundamentally are. Compassion. Open-mindedness. Understanding. It is doable if you both are willing.

Can you think of ways you might begin to try to dispel your wife's misconceptions of who you are and what you want? Someone has to start the process.

...and if I may ask - based on your personal experiences as a GG who has been in relationships with both a CDing and non-CDing males - what aspects of your current crossdressing partner do you find particularly appealing compared with "regular" guys? I could certainly use some concrete, non-threatening examples to present to my wife to help open up her mind a bit.

Right now, the chances of her joining this forum to interact with (and get support from) other GG's in the same situation vary somewhere between zero and nil.

[Andy66]

what aspects of your current crossdressing partner do you find particularly appealing compared with "regular" guys? I could certainly use some concrete, non-threatening examples to present to my wife to help open up her mind a bit.

I keep wanting to try to help, but I don't know what to say. Do you really not get it, or are you just trying to confuse the issues to make yourself look like a victim? Your arguments in favor of crossdressing would be pointless because crossdressing in and of itself is not really the issue, is it? If anything, the problem is the time and money involved.
Not only that, but it's become a control issue.

The more you write, the more it becomes clear that the two of you have been letting a battle (not necessarily over crossdressing) escalate for several years. Now you're both feeling stubborn, suspicious and trapped. Every little thing bothers you both because it's not just one little thing - it's the latest shovel-load in a huge festering manure pile of problems.

I think it may take a professional to dig you out of the rut you've fallen into. A professional once told me that you can't change the other person, but you can change yourself and the way you react.

[EveMarie]

Leslie, you're not alone in this "don't ask, don't tell" kind of situation. I'm sitting here in my new apartment, alone, separated from my wife over the same kind of happening. She wasn't angry or violent in any way, but I know deep down that even though she knew about Evie, and didn't want anything to do with Evie, all was good. But when she did find out I went out for a drink with a GG (strictly platonic, honest) she gave me the "I can't live with you, and I can't live without you" line.

My deepest sympathies for you girl, I can only hope you work it out.

Evie

[jenniferishappy]

Hi Leslie,
I mentioned this book in another post recently. It is the only one I have ever encountered that gives you a real chance at opening up communication between two people who feel they are not being heard.
'The Power of Two, by Susan Heitler'. A marriage counselor had my wife and I each get a copy and go through the exercises. As feminine as we like to feel, we do not have the brain of a female in the deeper psychological processing areas. Nor vise versa. They are available on Amazon for $5 (not new wives silly, the book). Nothing to lose with this. I really wish you luck, but do the work to get moving toward something good and fun. Life is really, really ,reeeeaaaallllyyy short.

[Satrana]

I could certainly use some concrete, non-threatening examples to present to my wife to help open up her mind a bit.

I agree with Anne, this is entirely the wrong approach. There are no advantages to CDing that could ever remotely win over a SO who fears and loathes your feminine persona. This approach does not address her concerns and feelings on the matter. You need to tell her that this issue is seriously disrupting the relationship and it is time to deal with it in a very open, frank manner. And considering how long it has been festering, you best shot would be to involve a third party to ensure to keep the communication is kept focused and does not become acrimonious.

[ReineD]

...and if I may ask - based on your personal experiences as a GG who has been in relationships with both a CDing and non-CDing males - what aspects of your current crossdressing partner do you find particularly appealing compared with "regular" guys? I could certainly use some concrete, non-threatening examples to present to my wife to help open up her mind a bit.

Right now, the chances of her joining this forum to interact with (and get support from) other GG's in the same situation vary somewhere between zero and nil.

You've mentioned quite a few aspects of the benefits of CDing earlier, but this is not the issue. Your wife first needs to believe that you love her and she is a priority in her life. Then she may be able to open her mind up about the CDing. But I suspect the fundamental issues in your marriage have little to do with the CDing.

I don't know why your wife has the attitudes she has, why she feels insecure in your relationship. I don't know which of her buttons get pushed and why. Could you ask her? Might the two of you put aside a discussion of the CDing for now and discuss trust issues, conflict resolution, your individual views on the viability of compromise?

If your wife keeps bringing up old wounds, is it because she has an unforgiving nature or does she feel the old issues have never been resolved? Having a successful marriage is difficult even without the CDing. More often, people move through life having lost the willingness for intimacy because they feel hurt and rather than resolve this they establish a pattern of emotional isolation.

You both need to get to know each other again ... who you both are internally and what you each need and want to give the other. This might be a need to be heard, believed, and respected more than a need to dress or to not see the dressing.

Ask your wife what her issues are and listen to her. Do not judge and do not attempt to justify or defend yourself. Ask her what she needs and see if you can provide this. Hopefully this will help her be more willing to pay attention to what you need. I'm stabbing in the dark here. Maybe the two of you need to do this with the help of a marital counselor.

[Leslie Langford]

...and I guess that sometimes when one is too close to a situation, it becomes hard not to see the forest for the trees.

You have given me much food for thought here, and perhaps also a workable strategy for dealing with the entrenched pattern of unwillingness to compromise that my wife and I seem to have fallen into.

Thank you for your time an effort in providing these valuable insights - they are much appreciated!

[SIZE="4"][SIZE="3"]Leslie[/SIZE][/SIZE]