My wife does.Originally Posted by Sheila
My wife does.
May you live long and prosper.
Infinite diversity in infinite combinations.
"Smiling makes my face ache." F. N. Furter
Of course crossdressing and marriage can coexist. But it takes a lot of factors, many of which have been mentioned here.
Most important are truth, honesty and committment from both parties, starting from before they each say, "I do!" Yes, I am talking (again!) about telling your intended before you marry her! That is being truthful, and not living a lie during your married life. And be honest and tell her the whole story about what your desires are. If you do desire to eventually become a woman, be honest and tell her. If you truly love her, that should be no problem! She does have a right to know that the man she intends to marry may become a woman at some future time.
I am a living example of how crossdressing and marriage can coexist. Many of you already know some of my story. At age 77, I have been crossdressing, in one fashion or another, for 70 years. At the age of 23 I became engaged to my childhood sweetheart, after telling her that I was a crossdresser. She totally accepted me "as is!" BTW, we had known each other since I was 9 and she was 7. We were married 7 months later, and wore matching white silk lingerie to our wedding.
We did set some "ground" rules for my CD activities. I agreed to never dress, at least outwardly, around our friends unless I was in full Stephanie mode including wig and makeup. Also, I agreed that we would not any children we had and I would not dress around them in any way! The most important rule, at least to me, was that I never forget that I was Her MAN! As my Tag line says, I am a man underneath, no matter what I am wearing. I have no desire to be a woman, and I made that very clear to my fiance when I told her! Often during our marriage, and just before she passed away, she told me that she considered me to be not only her husband, but also her boyfriend, her lover(my favorite!), and her best girlfriend! This all came about because we were both very truthful and honest with each other in our communication. Oh yes, our marriage lasted almost 50 years! Sure we had arguments, maybe even fights, but never about me being a CD. Every marriage will have arguments, because people don't always agree on everything! That is the way life is.
Stephanie
Lady on the outside, but man underneath!
Finding out their knight in shining armor doesn't
- enjoy dancing, drinking, and partying all night
- enjoy "chick flicks"
- want children
- know how to tear apart a car and put it back together again
- fold his own d--m clothes
- earn enough to buy a shiny car every couple of years
- think that smoking around children is a fine idea
- have the ambition/personality to get ahead at work by hook or by crook
- know all the right people to be on top of the town/city's social heap
- enjoy figure skating
- have connections to the right shady dealers to get a steady supply of dope, crack, horse, raitlin, prescription pain killers, prescription anti-depressants, after-hours booze
can be a major letdown. Just sayin.....
From all these responses, I can see this is indeed a very complex issue. I guess the bottom line here is honesty, openess and the willingness to share something this important to you with someone who is or may be very important to you. Since I have no experience in this, not much I can add to the discussion other than to say that I now have a much better understanding of a situation of this type if I ever get the opportunity to experience it...other than with my gg friend...
Yeah, just up until a few months ago, I was cd'ing just about every day, and it was just about all I ever thought about. Now I'm only doing it once every two weeks or so. I think the fear of getting caught by my wife kind of put it in perspective a bit for me, because it would most likely end my marriage. My wife has no clue that I have this fetish, and I definitely want to keep it that way. I love cd'ing when I get the urge, but if I was forced to choose between that or my wife, I'd take my wife in a heartbeat. That's just me.
How about your dreams...shattered. I know I dreamed of having the perfect wedding and marrying the man I love..than having the happy home with kids...dogs...cats...lots of cats. Then poof my dream gets shattered
[SIZE="3"]Do not wait; the time will never be ''just right.'' Start where you stand, and work with whatever tools you may have at your command, and better tools will be found as you go along.
It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.
They condemn what they do not understand.
[/SIZE]
Are you asking why would CDing be a deal breaker when other issues wouldn't be?
Half the marriages in our culture fail. A small percentage of these fail due to a partner's CDing, since there is a small percentage of people who CD. Other issues cause most of the divorces: affairs, gambling, alcoholism, emotional or physical abuse. Or a lack of the skills necessary to keep a marriage going: ability to communicate, negotiate, and reach compromises, no matter the issue. I'm making this point to put things in perspective.
I don't think CDing is a greater cause for marital failure than anything else. But it is an issue that is as difficult to overcome as the others.
If there are other issues present, no matter what they are and to what degree, even if it is an inability to resolve built-up resentments over the partners feeling they have not been heard or other (non-CDing related) needs have not been met, then the CDing would tip the scale towards ending the marriage. But so would an affair or an different issue.
If it is an otherwise happy relationship with no other major issues and the marriage does break down over the CDing, it could be for a variety of reasons. The wife may have strong religious or moral objections. The breakdown of trust as the result of being lied to is also a pretty big issue. But if a wife is open-minded, then her fears of losing her husband to his femme self or her insecurity about her femininity would likely be felt only in the beginning while she is learning about how the CDing fits into their relationship. If the husband is mindful of his wife's needs and her early insecurites and (excepting being TS) the CDing is stable and he continues to want to be her husband, then it is likely the wife's fears will dissipate.
On being TS .. I don't know if most accepting wives (although we have exceptional women here who prove otherwise
So ... to eliminate causes for a marital breakdown:
- there are no other major issues in the relationship,
- both parties know how to deal with issues when they come up through communication & compromise,
- there are no religious or moral objections,
- the wife comes to understand why it took her husband so long to tell her and her trust is not eroded because of this,
- the husband continues from this point to be honest with his wife and he does not minimize or conceal deeper needs as they come up (such as the minor cosmetic necessities for a believable presentation ... shaving, long nails, ear piercings, clothing & accessories, etc), the wife understands this and things stabilize when the desired presentation is reached,
- they both agree on the degree of outedness and femme social life,
- the husband and wife are in a happy sexual relationship together (however they choose to define this), and the husband does not secretly over-fantasize having sex as a woman with other men,
- the shopping for clothing does not turn into an addiction of its own,
... then the marriage and the CDing can co-exist nicely. Judging by the threads here asking how many CDs are in happy marriages, there are many marriages where this is true. And lots of marriages are happy even when not all of the above conditions are met.
Last edited by ReineD; 11-26-2009 at 07:57 AM.
Reine
Stephanie ~ That is a beautiful journey. Made me teary.Often during our marriage, and just before she passed away, she told me that she considered me to be not only her husband, but also her boyfriend, her lover(my favorite!), and her best girlfriend! This all came about because we were both very truthful and honest with each other in our communication. Oh yes, our marriage lasted almost 50 years! Sure we had arguments, maybe even fights, but never about me being a CD. Every marriage will have arguments, because people don't always agree on everything! That is the way life is.
"We will live how we want. We are who we are."
Melissamncd ~ Love of my life and partner in crime
I guess this is true for some wives who have that kinda mindset, but IMHO there are many more reasons why women might feel threatened and they have nothing to do with thinking deviant or pervert type thoughts. I think ReineD, FireflyGG, and Danielle Gee eluded to them.
This is how my wife is. She's told me that no matter how I feminine I dress or look "I will never pass in her eyes" as she can "always see the boy". Now don't get me wrong, by that I mean not that I don't look feminine enough, but that there are little things about me, like the way I am, my mannerisms etc, that make my wife always know that underneath it all it's still her husband that she knows and loves.
The other thing in my particular situation, (which is not typical I grant you), is that my wife looked to date a CDer before she met me. She wanted (and still likes) a feminine partner. She is not bi or anything like that it's that she doesn't particularly like most men that much, but she is straight and wants to married to a guy, except she wants her guy to be more like a girl, especially in his attitude and behavior. For her, the clothes and my love of all things feminine is a natural and therefore (for her) a non threatening progression.
However, I do want to tell you that before we got married she was VERY careful to make sure I was exactly what she was looking for and she knew precisely what she was getting into as she practically grilled me on every tiny thought and feeling I had on my "transgender-ness" and where I was going with it. In particular she wanted to be as sure as she could be that I was not going to transition. She wanted to marry a crossdresser. She knows that (in theory) it is still a possibility that one day it "could" happen but before marrying me she wanted to be sure it would be very unlikely. I can't promise her that I never will, just like she can't promise me that she won't one day fall out of love with me, but both of us know deep down inside that both these scenarios are highly unlikely.
I think this is why my wife is so supportive and encouraging of my crossdressing and feminine expression, because she is self assured enough that am going to remain a crossdresser, and in particular that I will not be making any permanent surgical changes to my body other than laser hair removal and electrolysis for my face. I can tell that periodically she likes to be reminded of this fact, just like it's nice to have your partner look you in the eye and tell you that they love you. It's affirming and gives you a feeling of safety.
Anyway, like I said, I do feel that my situation is different from others as my wife knew from the get-go and the biggest thing is that she likes girly guys. Back in the 1980's when all those New Romantics were wearing feminine clothing and makeup, but where still clearly guys - albeit feminine ones - was where she was in her element
.
The River City Gems - Northern California's largest and most active crossdressing & transgender support group!
I've had more than a few dreams of my own shattered in my relationship -- and for every one of them that someone might point to and say "That's because you are a CD/TG!", I can point out how my being not being CD/TG would not have stopped the situation from happening, or I can point to significant disappointments from before I even had any idea I was CD let alone TG.
For example, those dreams I had of continuing indefinitely to be "young" and vital and self-confident and being world-class in my professional skills: they came crashing down when I was hit by a serious (clinical) Depression (which is a biomedical problem with consequences far beyond a vague dissatisfaction with the course of one's life.) I used to be high on knowing how much I was contributing to the world, and I used to be free, knowing that I could get a job (or do contracts) nearly anywhere in the developed world. Now instead I fear losing my job, and I look at how long until I can retire with a full pension and I say "Oh God, so so long from now!"
You looking for some dream-shards? I got a bunch of them right here. Like seeing the fear and hurt in my wife's eyes this morning when, for the first time, she admitted that she doesn't know how she is going to be able to survive another 2 or more years of having her mother living with us, deteriorating from Alzheimer's... it was only about 6 months ago that my wife was so strongly committed to having her mother stay as long as was physically possible that if I had insisted to her "No, your mother must go into care!" then my wife would have moved out -- she told me as much. By now, the things my wife finds herself saying to her mother break my wife's spirit... all the more so because the words are true.
Last night, the chain-locks we recently installed to keep her mother locked inside did their duty, kept her mother from wandering outside in her payjamas in sub-freezing temperatures; all of the doors were tried, which only happens when her mother goes irrational in her desire to GO!... her mother will attack anyone who gets in her way when she's like that, and she has absolutely no sense of where she is or where she is going or how to get back, so the chains effectively kept her from going out and getting lost and probably getting injured by exposure to the cold. We know intellectually that we did the right thing, that we may have saved her mother's life -- but it is a terrible thing to lock someone in, an act that emotionally scars us.
I should go home now and help my wife sweep up some those broken dreams.
It was a truly beautiful journey, and still is, in my mind. I admit to getting a little teary eyed when I wrote that post! My feminine side?Stephanie ~ That is a beautiful journey. Made me teary.
Stephanie
Lady on the outside, but man underneath!
I was thinking of "adultery". Not that it matters.
I have to agree with Karren. My wife asked me how I like the forum and I told her I loved it. I told her there are a lot of fantastic people here. I then asked her if she wanted to join. I told her there was a special section just for wives and girlfriends for support for each other. Well I thought she was going to fall off her chair. She had a shocked look on her face, laughed and said no way!
She hasn't yet realized that you have no choice in this. She is still thinking about it as a weird hobby. She needs to come to see that it is a part of who you are.She had a shocked look on her face, laughed and said no way!
Reine
I really like your response ReineD. Thanks for that.
Mel
I joined this forum a week after my wife and I first discovered Tina. I had the naieve notion that all husbands and wives would explore each other's minds together, and with us it was just "goofing around" after 32 years of marriage, chuckling about fitting into an old piece of lingerie of hers, chuckling about buying stockings and super high heels to match, wanting to see me "dressed", and then shocking me by telling me that we NEEDED to buy me a dress!
Ok, she admits that she never thought it would last this long, this exploration of Tina, but it started out as a "goof" together, and it just snow-balled. But...it snowballed together. The dress didn't fit because I had no breasts to fill it out, so bra, breastforms, then wig, then makeup, then skirt and top...you all know the routine of that slippery slope.
But it was more than that. It was a reaffirmation of a commitment to each other, it was agreeing that it would be private between the two of us, it was the private e-mail address for Tina so the new "girlfriends" could correspond without confustion about who was the correspondant, it was the clarity that the masculine and feminine sides of me are separate so that we could look at those two sides of me separately, it was a commitment that when she wanted her man HE would be there.
Then there were the long discussions about what it is like to grow up being a girl, the socializations, the expectations, the details that girls learn, the emotional responses that men don't have a clue about, the odd looks at Tina when Tina suddenly did something as a "guy" would without even knowing it, the idea of separating activities that Tina and she did from those of husband and wife (Tina even had some chores labeled for her getting ready for thanksgiving), the idea of Tina as girlfriend, the details of growing up as a guy coming out as well and being put into perspective, and it just goes on and on.
So, in that context I come onto this forum and read about all the pain and actual suffering from both sides. Of all the murky issues surrounding this issue, a few stand out in my mind:
- Our wives need to be kept secure in the realty that we will not stop being the the husbands that they married, that a feminine side does not diminished their roles as husband. Bait and switch is a deadly game in marriage.
- A cross-dressing husband has the potential to be a superb mate, understanding more about his wife than most (if not all) men who don't experience presenting as a woman.
- If experiencing his feminine side is done together, the connections that can be made between spouses are truly incredible, strengthening the bonds of that marriage.
- For any wives reading this, please know that opening our psyches to you about this topic can be the most frightening act in your marriage. We put our lives as we know it in your hands, trusting you completely.
I truly hope that this thread can help to bring couples together over the topic of their masculinity and femininity, to share in what can be an incredible-shared experience of caring and love.
tina
Last edited by suchacutie; 11-27-2009 at 12:51 PM. Reason: title should have read...was an eyeopener....
I know Reine it just takes time and patience. Thanks.
Vicki-Z
We all have this "fear". We can't help it, crossdressing seems to be worse to some women than murder is. I didn't want to get involved with that so I told my wife about my dressing. Now I'm divorced. I guess I had the right to be afraid and will be when I tell my next SO. I'll be sure to tell her early in the relationship.
Thank you for reminding me, Sherri!
I feel so lucky to have "discovered" Tina WITH my wife and not before knowing my wife. As I mentioned two posts ago, I think it is a remarkably fearful thing to open up such a private thing as having an active feminine life to another person. In my case, I already fully trusted my wife and I had no fear.
However, if I were to be in the situation of having to broach the subject to another potential mate, I can't begin to even understand all the potential negative ramifications, especially if I didn't want to be "outed". The fact is that opening up to a potential mate with this "privacy" could change the direction of one's life. Notwithstanding the many successfully public girls here, if that direction isn't one's choice, I can see that I would approach the whole subject very carefully.
Having said that, I would not want to enter into a permanent relationship with any major secrets on either side, so broach the subject I would!
tina
You said this incredibly well, Tina. When my partner came out to me, Melissa already existed. But she was created without the intention of ever being out of the closet to anyone he was in a relationship with. That influenced some of the decisions he made then, that I think he would do differently now. But that was a struggle for me and it took a lot of dialoguing for us to work through some of my insecurities and some of his regrets. I told him that there will be times when I will ask a question and he'll answer it, and I'll ask it 20 times over again in the future. No because I don't believe him, but because I need some reassurance. It helped him to know where the questioning was coming from and it helped me to express to him what I needed him to do in order for me to feel more secure.
So going forward, Melissa is being re-invented. Her role is different and I'm really looking forward to a couple of things. How I respond to her in the long term (because I am sexually attracted to her) and also just nuturing that side of my partner that has never been acknowledged before by anyone in his life that he's been close to. Whenever he needs to bring her out, or I want her to come out and playshe's now not just an object for sexual gratification, she's a whole person with a lot of different facets. It's like going from 2-D to 3-D. She's a real person that needs to be valued and respected and appreciated.
But when he's in guy mode, he's a guy's guy. We have a lot of the same interests and I swoon over his masculine side. When his femme side comes out, it gives me a chance to act on my more dominant side. Something I thoroughly enjoy. But overall, the fact that he's sensitive and emotional makes me feel like I'm being taken care of in ways that my non-CDing ex's could ever provide. His femme side is a huge bonus.
"We will live how we want. We are who we are."
i think a lot of women don't really care if their husbands dress up as long as they are honest about it from the start. looking around, i have noticed that the majority of success stories in which wives accept and support cding involve just that. i have also noticed that a lot of those with unaccepting wives have hidden dressing from them for years or they were caught red handed, so they feel they have been lied to. a little truth can go a long way. my opinion may be a little biased, because i am one of those with a partner that accepts and supports me 100 percent. i feel if i had not told her up front, it would be the exact opposite. i'm not saying that every woman is like this, but its just a thought.
I wish to correct you on this point. This is a common misconception. See the link.
http://keithsouza.com/blog/2009/02/2...l-do-the-math/
May you live long and prosper.
Infinite diversity in infinite combinations.
"Smiling makes my face ache." F. N. Furter
Your sarcasm aside...Melinda has a valid point. How many cross dressers find themselves tossed to the curb because their wife or SO just couldn't stomach it? Whatever her reason..right or wrong? ( in your eyes) Something inside compels you to cd.. something inside of them may compel them to not want to be a part of it. Whether you feel that you are right or they feel that they are....is really of no consequence, when you come right down to brass tacks.
Last edited by kellycan27; 11-27-2009 at 09:41 PM.
Thanks Marie, I found the 3.5 divorced vs. 7.1 married (per 1,000) CDC provisional data for 2008 that computes to a 49% divorce rate.
But where does the person you linked to get the Census Bureau 55M marriages? I couldn't find that figure and besides, the Census Bureau does not collect marriage and divorce rates by year as does the CDC. They only provide current marital status, which does not give us a divorce rate in any given year.
Oh, and the reason the CDC doesn't report the total number of divorces (just a national rate) is because they do not have the figures for California, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Louisiana, and Minnesota. They compensate by excluding the populations for divorce rates for those states.
To the OP ... it would be an eye-opener if the CDC also included the reasons for all the divorces!
Beautifully said, Tina!
Reine
I've been a CD/TV gal for over 50 years. I have been married to my beautiful soul mate for 35. She has known about my dressing for about 25 of those 35. Although she seems to understands, and lets me dress, she just can't seem to make the next step.. being present while I dress, and maybe even helping.
I know she's aware that my dressing up is part of my overall personality, and that is part of my overall makeup of why she fell in love with me. She even loves to have me watch shows like "Dancing With the Stars", where we both comment on beautiful women and the beautiful dresses they are wearng!
It would be so lovely if we could both make that next step where I can be Geena with her present. Lately, I am constantly "on edge" about this. I get my nerve up during the day, and rehearse in my mind how to speak to her about this, only to chicken out in the evening.
I can only dress up when she's at work, out for the day, on trips or if I get up early before she gets up. She knows this all too well. I want to have a conversation with her in which we both realize that it would be better for both of us if I could dress up while she was at home.
Any of you girls have any ideas on how I can do this next step without screwing everything up?
Huggers!
Geena
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