OK Alice where do we go from here?

[Frédérique]

I am a psychologist and although I am not a clinician I do understand that counseling consists of lots of little steps of guided self discovery, but there are times that I feel I would be better off with a magic eight ball.

[SIZE="2"]Self-discovery does not require the presence of an outsider, IMHO (why do you think it's called self discovery?). I think you already know where you have led yourself, and where you are going, so you might as well go further, or deeper, until you find your ultimate fulfillment. You are Alice, and you are also the "looking glass" – if you can understand that conundrum you may not even require the services of an eight ball for enlightenment… [/SIZE]

[Alice B]

Where we draw the line is totally an individual thing and based upon a lot of factors that are also unique to the individual. I don't think anyone here can tell you what you should or should not do. But, we can all support you in whatever direction you take.

Each of us that CD would like to be a bit more. Maybe dress more, be able to be totally open, maybe modify ourself such as having real breasts, etc. Again unique to the individual. Do what you feel is best for you and since you are getting professional advise and you are a professional in the field I'm sure your decision will be best for you.

[Rachel Morley]

Oh my gosh Suzanne, I so feel for you.

You said that when you and your wife got married, early on you set some boundaries. The most important boundary being that if it went farther than dressing you wouldn't be married anymore. Whilst my wife and I didn't exactly say that to each other we both know that if what is happening to you now were to happen to me and I subsequently decided to transition fully it is highly likely that my wife would not be able to make that kind of adjustment and in the long run the "Rachel and Marla dream" would be over.

I know you will think seriously about the consequences for transitioning as well as the benefits ... probably some of them are unknown consequences at this time but try to think about what they might be. Run it through your mind just exactly what fully transitioning means, and I don't mean the physical stuff to do with hormones and surgery etc although that would also be a good thing to think about as well as there are medical risks involved. I mean the total change in life for not only yourself, but also your immediate family (wife and children).

There is no guarantee that you would still being living the life you are today (home, job, money, etc) except that you are female. There are some folks I know who have retained a lot of what they had before they transitioned but I also know quite a few that have lost it all - not everyone is so lucky.

Of course, it's very easy for me to say this because (for now anyway) I'm "only" a crossdresser and I don't have the "pull" that I perceive a TS woman would have, but you have my best wishes and I'm sure you will in your mind consider "the big picture" but in the end it's down to you and your own conscious to know what's best for you ... listen, learn and let the answers within you be your guide. Good luck!

[Andie56]

Hi Suzanne
"I shared this with my therapist this morning and she told me that I have some tough decisions ahead of me." Wow were you at my session with me? I heard the same thing. But mine did say we will work on it togeather, in the meantime just go for whatever feels right!

[SuzanneBender]

Darling sisters thank you for all your kinds words of comfort and advice. The one thing that I do know is that this is a decission that I will not make lightly and I will go down this road slowly. I have given it a lot of thought, but I know there are plenty of other things to consider including the most important consideration, my family.

I really love Rebecca Jayne's advice about getting away to a quiet place for awhile to reflect. I think I am going to take that advice and spend a week or so before we have to return from Christmas break.

No my psychologist is not on the payroll of the Chiefs or Cubbies although my being a fan has probably resulted in at least a couple of extra sessions. Ohhh and every time I shake that darn Magic 8 Ball it keeps telling me "reply hazy, try again.

I am amazed at the number of ladies out there wrestling with or that have wrestled with a situation similar to this. Again I thank all of you for your wonderful advice.

A big hug to all my sisters.

[linnea]

Diane's questions and answers make very good points to ponder. So does the mid-life crisis question.
I have wrestled with this one time and time again. At my age, I probably will not go much farther than I have already gone.
I certainly empathize with you and wish you well.

[suchacutie]

The only perspective I can lend is this:

It's one thing to contemplate change from the comforting confines of a loving relationship. Before you step off into a different situation, gain some realistic experience in that situation as realistically as possible.

I love Tina, but living 24/7 as she would be a situation that would not be better than my currently loving wife and marriage.

Be realistic and then live a wonderful life

tina

[Autumndawn]

Suzanne - I'd like to first thank you for starting this string. The question of how far I would/could go, has bounced around in my brain for a long time. I also want to thank the rest of you girls that have replied to on this question. I might also add that while thinking of what to write in reply, I was struck by the fact that you used "Alice in Wonderland" as a lead into your situation. More on that later.
I don't think there is a day that goes by for me that I don't think about this.
The things that have prevented me from delving into the hole deeper, are my family, my children, freinds and the type of profession I'm in. I'd have so much to lose in order to gain the right to say "I am woman". I also say this with consideration to surviving three women in my life going through the menopause. That hasn't been pretty either. Another thing that prevents me is the fact that I would actually be a "TS woman", not a real one. Those are my road blocks. Still there are moments I have where I wish I would wake and find myself totally and completely changed. I don't think I'd be shocked. I consider that I would revel in the thought of daily prep and going about life as a woman.Though, I wouldn't want to be the poster child of "This can happen to you Man" either.
I agree with other sisters that this is an individual's path, though each of us knows what the physical results would be, we have to define what all the other results would be, or might be. Another thing is, it's a one way ticket. With no chance to change after you've arrived at your destination.
I know I've said things that we all know here, or at least have considered at times. Still the desire to wake up, and be physically something else can be so strong.
"Alice in Wonderland" a story full of whimsy, pondered upon for possible alternative messages, or maybe just simply to occupy a child's imagination.
Seems so appropriate of a metaphor to use in this instance.

[Margot]

Well Suzanne it sounds like want to transition but are conflicted by your needs to keep your marriage together. Although my wife is supportive she will not contemplate me being assigned a girlfriend role. Your wife sounds supportive of any decision you make. You will need to focus on your relationship with your wife and determine if you need to give it all up. That's probably not the only thing you might give up. There's other friends and family.
At home I'm fully dressed now all the time but can't seem to have the courage to go out en femme like many others here. I really hate not being femme now to the point where "guy" things are not being done around the house. This to me is becoming a problem that I need to deal with. I have a need to be femme but want to fulfill the male role to which nature has relegated me. This is a much easier decision for me than you but I understand where you are coming from, I think.
Margot

[kellycan27]

Funny, I used the exact same analogy just the other day,"Alice through the looking glass". As I see it,right now you are standing in front of the mirror..probing. Poking the mirror and seeing that, yes it's possible to penetrate the glass,but should you? What's on the other side? You have a lot of people standing around watching you and saying......Be careful Alice, there are consequences, I wouldn't do it, it may not be what you expect. You may not find what you are looking for... All very possible to be sure, but keep in mind that these people may not have the same desire or drive to slip beyond the safety of just looking at the glass. As some have said, it's a personal choice that shouldn't be taken lightly...logical and stellar advice.Now that the disclaimers in regards to consequences and obligations have been discussed we come to actually passing through the glass. Did it actually live up to my expectations? In some ways no, in other ways it far exceeded anything that I could have imagined. I got banged up and bruised as I tumbled down the hole, but after I picked myself up and the bruises healed, I found myself in a magic place. Is it all lollipops and roses? No, can it be dangerous and scary? Absolutely,painful? Almost unbearably at times. Worth the pain and suffering? 1000 times yes!
It may not be for you, but if it is and you can realize the dream it can be very fulfilling and rewarding.
In closing i would like to express my admiration for those who do desire to move forward,but due to circumstances do not. I believe that resisting the desire is just as courageous if not more than actually talking that leap of faith. I am not sure I could do that, and luckily I didn't have to make those considerations.

Kelly

[carolinoakland]

You are at the crux of the matter... after years of denial and doing everything I could to prove to myself that I wasn't TS, even trying to convince myself that I was ok with being a cd. But like you I went to my first trans convention, and not just the other girls who'd done it.... but the reality of living full time as a woman for the first time, even if it was only for three days they where the happiest three days I'd ever known. Followed by the saddest... the day I had to go back home to being 'him'. And as for the therapist, I knew that when I went there that I was looking for the questions, the answears where allready inside me. Being able to accept that was the most important thing. Your wife sounds wonderful, and is trying to accept. And continue to respect each others boundries. It will be critical later.... Carol
And a note about being a parent, I agonize that I could have been a happier more caring parent, had I not been frustrated at playing a role.

[sherri]

In closing i would like to express my admiration for those who do desire to move forward,but due to circumstances do not. I believe that resisting the desire is just as courageous if not more than actually talking that leap of faith.

I for one really, really appreciate that acknowledgment. We don't hear that often enough, and it is further testament to your graciousness. It makes it so much easier to respect your perspective and advice.

And I'm not just saying that cuz you're drop-dead omg gorgeous.

[SuzanneBender]

But like you I went to my first trans convention, and not just the other girls who'd done it.... but the reality of living full time as a woman for the first time, even if it was only for three days they where the happiest three days I'd ever known. Followed by the saddest... the day I had to go back home to being 'him'. And a note about being a parent, I agonize that I could have been a happier more caring parent, had I not been frustrated at playing a role.

The best weeks of my life have been the weeks that I am Suzanne. I only feel truly at ease when my outward self matches my inner self. The rest of the time it feels like I am in constant turmoil trying to make the best of a situation and no matter how hard I try it detracts from being a good father and spouse.

I feel that I would be a much better spouse and parent to my kids if I wasn't living out a constant lie about who I really am. I am a positive that I will still be a good parent for my children after transition. I know deep down inside that I am not a crossdresser. Some of the ladies on this site take great pride in being a man. I wish I could. Anymore, for me crossdressing has become a bandaid on a huge gaping wound. My gender is female despite being born a biological male. Unfortunately it has taken forty years for me to be willing to admit what I have known to be true my entire life.

I used the exact same analogy just the other day,"Alice through the looking glass". As I see it,right now you are standing in front of the mirror..probing. Poking the mirror and seeing that, yes it's possible to penetrate the glass, but should you? What's on the other side?

Your post explains exactly why I used this analogy. I know the trip through the looking glass and down the rabbit hole would be wondrous, but fraught with challenges. I feel the fear Alice felt concerning what is on the other side. I know I will also have moments like she did of wishing I could travel back. I have no preconceived notions that life will be easy and that there will not be painful moments along this journey for myself and my loved ones.

Ladies thanks for all your help with this. All of your opinions are cherished and will make a difference on way or the other. I am spending a lot of time journaling weighing the positive and negative of the here and now versus what is on the other side of the mirror. Your posts are helping me with refining that list. The one thing I do know is that I am only going to take "baby steps". The first of which is a 30 day sabbatical from the here and now of work and my family to explore living full time.

Hugs

[ReineD]

Suzanne, I feel for you and your family. I know it is not an easy decision to make. But, in the short time between beginning this thread and now, it looks as if you have moved a little closer towards deciding to go through that looking glass. I take it your wife will respect your decision. She did say she will cease to be your wife when you do transition but continue to be your friend? I do not know whether your relationship has already settled into more of a deep friendship over the last few years and this is one of the reasons why transition has become an option. If both you and your wife are of the same mind that transitioning is feasible, even though your living arrangements might change, it is likely your children will be OK with it too. Are you also in a profession that would allow you to hang up your shingle as a woman, perhaps even specializing in gender issues?

My comments are more across the board. I'm noticing a trend in this forum and elsewhere. There appear to be more TG marriages where the struggle is moving away from learning to accept the CDing towards needing to come to terms with the possibility of transition.

When I was first involved in the community 3 short years ago, I belonged to a list-serve for GG SOs. Never was there talk about hormones or SRS. The majority of those GGs were struggling with whether they should stay married to husbands who occasionally wanted to wear panties and nighties to bed! Things have changed and they continue to change. We see more and more GGs joining this forum now who already support their partners. There was a multiple-page thread in the M2F recently where, not counting the posts between people who bantered back and forth, easily 75%-80% of the responses from married CDs indicated their wives supported the CDing. There are now many blogs by parents who support their TG children and fight for a more accepting society on their behalf.

I am heartened by all these changes because it is my hope that in time there will be fewer latent TSs, therefore less potential heartache all around. Please don't take this the wrong way, but as awareness of transness grows in our society, hopefully young TSs will grow up to know and accept who they are early enough before settling into marriages with hetero GGs who want to be married to males. Conversely, as society becomes more accepting of gender variance, it will be easier for the more sexually fluid GGs and GMs to find TS partners. We still have a ways to go.

In the meantime I'm glad you and your wife are prepared to work through all of this together. You have my heartfelt wishes that you will arrive to a decision that will be best in the long run for all concerned.

[christinek]

Hey Sweetie, the SCC opened alot of doors for me and many more emotions as well. I am still a bit scared and confused but Happier now that my SO is so accepting and going with me to meet you (Suzanne) at Be-All.

See you soon Sister

[Terri Andrews]

The thoughts that everyone have shared are great ,I have felt the same as you and decided that I did not want to pay the cost to transistion . There are times that I regret that decision but I am not much on looking back.
I have a supportive SO and am out enfemme as often as I want ,so my life is not what I wanted ,but it is not bad .
This is a decision we each have to make , Please , take your time .

Thanks for sharing Your thoughts with us .

[Aubrey Green]

Suzanne sweetie, your therapist is right. She can help you sort through the problems and help you find answers, but in the end, it is your decision. That is a question you will not solve in 1, 2 or even 20 visits. It will be the biggest decision you will make your entire life, wether Suzanne lives as she is or makes her change and risks losing half of her life. Do not jump quickly, you with your background and your therapist can find the correct answer.

[gretchen_love]

I think the other ladies have said all I could say and more, so I just want to offer my support and a cyber hug.

[Acadeca]

I have to wonder how many guys would accept his wife saying "hey I never told you this but I like to dress in guy mode and... I wonder how acceptable that would be.

Check out the number of male SOs on the loved ones thread. There's your answer. (Yes, there are fewer FtMs than the other way, but if there has ever been a male SO on there, I can't remember it.) Several members here have admitted that they'd leave in this situation.

What's enjoyable for you brings great pain to many of your wives, yet they put up with it to hold their families together. Those wives are doing their very best under difficult circumstances that, in most cases, they knew nothing about when they agreed to marry you. I wish some of you would keep that in mind when you demand that your wives educate themselves and accept something that they never bargained for.

[carolinoakland]

Ok, you are proving to me that old saying that every ts's story is the same...just the names and dates are diferent. My heart really goes out there for you honey. And Kelly points out the courage to know this and choose not to act on it... I ran from this knowledge because I knew if I knew I was a TS then I'd be responsible for that knowledge and doing something about it...or not. I really did go through exactly the same sort of feelings. I hope that we are a help, I have always found help here. carol

[SuzanneBender]

Ok, you are proving to me that old saying that every ts's story is the same...just the names and dates are diferent. My heart really goes out there for you honey. And Kelly points out the courage to know this and choose not to act on it... I ran from this knowledge because I knew if I knew I was a TS then I'd be responsible for that knowledge and doing something about it...or not. I really did go through exactly the same sort of feelings. I hope that we are a help, I have always found help here. carol

Ohhh Carol I can't express the gratitude for everyone's opinion on this especially yours. I never expected the support that I received from this post.

For those that think I am making this decission just based on me you couldn't be further from the truth. Everything that I do revolves around my family. I have spent many of my waking hours reflecting on this question. I determined that my decission will be based off two things.

1. Is being a TS really what I want? I can only tell that by doing this more than just a day or two at a time. I am going to spend my sebatical this spring as a woman. It will give me an opportunity to live and work as a woman. From there I will have a better perspective as I ponder the second question.

2. Will I be a better person when the outside matches the inside? Number one will help me determine if the sense of calm that I feel when I am en femme will carry over. Will this make me a better parent? If it does? Will that difference offset the untold amount of stress and challenges on them if I transistion.

[Miranda09]

Please dear. I will always be me. I am a Chiefs and Cubbies fan. There is no way I can ever consider myself superior.

Well Suzanne, if you're a Cubbies fan, then you must have a good head on your shoulders!!!

But seriously, I would just like to say that while I can't relate to the feelings you are obviously going thru, just remember those around you, whom have also supported you. I can relate about the pink fog, and there are times when I wish I could have more, but I'm not about to sacrifice my male self for that. Honestly, if I were lucky enough to have such a great wife, I would do everything to keep that fog under control. She's a truly special person and there aren't that many out there. Just remember that age old saying..."the grass is always greener on the other side!" Whatever you do, I hope the best for you.

[sonia_dargency]

Decision is the keyword of the entire thread.

I believe that as a parent, the best thing you can do for your children is to be an example of courage, to show them that when conflicts arose, you made real decisions and endured the consequences, that you faced adversity and responded unafraid. anything less of that will emped their courage and ability to become responsible adults.

do not listen to your mind, it has been distracted, do not listen to your heart for it can have been corrupted. this kind of answer is in your guts.

Do not mistake desire for comfort and achievement of greater self but it takes a man to be a woman

This is my first post, in the first forum I ever contributed to, on any topic - I do not know much of the etiquette and hope not to be perceived coldhearted, but Suzanne is facing a major issue - only strong words came to me.

She is too cute to be left to misery

Sonia

[ReineD]

I can relate about the pink fog, and there are times when I wish I could have more, but I'm not about to sacrifice my male self for that.

The big question is how does one tell the difference between a temporary fog and what is meant to be?

[vetobob9]

Girls I am about to give up my hard earned reputation on this site as a well put together TG gal.

I thought I had the answer but lately the pink fog is really starting to overtake my life. I find the threads concerning crossdresser vs. transsexuals very interesting because I can't tell you where I belong on the spectrum, but I feel that I am sliding down the rabbit hole with a TS Alice.

I hid being transgendered for years from a wonderful and supportive wife. She has accepted the dressing as a part of the man she loves, but early on we set some boundaries. The most important boundary being that if it went farther than dressing we wouldn't be married. For the past couple of years I was satisfied with this arrangement. Then came SCC and I met some incredible ladies there that had transitioned and were leading wonderful lives and were wonderful parents despite all of the challenges. A flood of feelings and regrets overwhelmed me as well as the nagging knowledge that there could be more. Now being Suzanne part time doesn't feel right.

More and more I feel like I am crossdressed when in Male mode. When I was young I went to bed every night wishing and praying that I would wake up female. I now find myself going to bed with those same wishes and I feel so guilty like I am letting my wife and my kids down.

I posted a couple of days ago about my wife coming home and finding me sick with the flu and dressed. She said she wasn't upset but last night it spawned the question from her, "do you want more?” I spoke from the heart and told her yes, but I am not sure at what cost. Being the wonderful woman she is she gave me a big hug with tears in her eyes and said she will always be there for me either as a wife or a friend. All I could do is hug her back and tell her that I will always love her no matter what should become of us and that I will not make any decisions without lots of reflection and discussion.

I shared this with my therapist this morning and she told me that I have some tough decisions ahead of me. I am paying a $150.00 and hour for advice like that? Where was the "go for it girl" or "are you nuts"? I am a psychologist and although I am not a clinician I do understand that counseling consists of lots of little steps of guided self discovery, but there are times that I feel I would be better off with a magic eight ball.

[SIZE=3]I am not sure what I am asking for here. I guess I just needed to vent to others that have or may be wrestling with the same issues and maybe I am just looking for a cyber hug or two as I wrestle with this. I wouldn't trade who I am for anything, but sometimes I have to wonder why God picked girls like us to carry burdens like this.[/SIZE]

I have one question. What do you think is the reason you wish you were a girl? What interest would be served by undergoing such a painful and scarring operation which cannot ever be reversed?
Would it be something that you are 100% certain you can live with? If you have no doubts at all then do it. But if you have even a grain of sand's worth of doubt, then don't do it.
This is worse than joining the army. Once you sign the contract, there is no turning back, there is no "I was just doing it for the college money". Once it's done, your life is changed irrevocably forever.
I am sure there are people here who have had the procedure, which I am against because I personally consider it to be self mutiliation much like body piercings, who have first hand experience they can share with you as far as the physical costs and the like.
You might also consider your children and your spouse. How will she react? How will this affect your kids.
A lot of people might tell you go for it, or they might tell you don't go for it. I say you should slow down, think about it critically and rationally (putting aside your emotions). Talk to your significant other about it.
Don't do anything you are not 100% certain of.

God has a reason for you being here. You feel like a girl so that you can understand what the female gender is going through. This way you can sympathize with them.
You are physically a man so that you can seek to attain a station in life so you can do something about it.
Consider this, women make less than men, such that you would be losing part of your salary. You would be losing many other benefits of being a physical male.
Are you aware that there are still things men can do that women can't.
You should consider using your experiences to help those whose gender you wish to join. That is why God made you the way you are.
This was not meant to be a burden to you. It was meant to be a tool to help others.