Crossing dressing and dating guys?

[VickyMI]

Yes I have dated men before.

No I don't think I am very attracted to them but its still titilating to play the role of a woman out on a date. Walking into a room with a man at your side for dinner or lunch is soooo much like living like a real women. Maybe its the validation thing. Having someone open doors, hang up your coat for you seems to take it to another level. Much better than just going out to the mall and shopping by yourself.

I have been lucky to have a few long term relationships on the side. Love going to movies especially sitting in the back row...

[Michelia]

Bulls-eye Reine.


I got news for the hets, being gay is a lot more than sex. I've said it before but a fantasy about sex with a man or even having sex with a man does not make you gay. However, if your fantasies lean more toward romance with a man then you may very well have homo tendencies. Think of it like this, if you have a quickie with a guy at a wild party, you may or may not be gay. But if you spend all afternoon shopping while holding hands and snuggle together during a movie, you're definitely gay or bi, whether you had sex or not.

Honesty is the key, and the truth will set you free.

-Misty

Misty:

I guess I could now be classified as bi. Yet I do not really feel that way. And in no way do I feel like I am refusing to carry the description because I see it as something I do not want to be. But in the above quote you actually describe the opposite of the way I now feel. I am still not attracted to guys. I do not really fantasize having sex with them. I do not check them out. Yet I have a pretty romantic arrangement with a guy. I have come to like him a great deal and feel attracted to him now.

But the true woman in me has gotten to like him because of his personality, patience, and understanding, not his looks or his gender or his physique as a man. I like the way he tries to please me and takes me out where I want to go. It is the way he treats me like a lady all the time. I like his brains, too. He never criticizes me or is embarrassed by me. Suddenly, all those physical traits in men that I find so disgusting (and still do about all other men) have gone out the window.

The sexual part, while I do not seek to downplay it, is really not that important to me. So even if I have a boyfriend, I do not feel I "can swing either way". It is just not that simple for me. And maybe there are those of us that just do not fit in the usual categories. To me, I am still heterosexual. My boyfriend feels the same way as he has no attraction to guys. And people can insist on labeling us anyway they want, but I could care less. I guess I am saying in the end it is how we feel about ourselves that really counts.

[Misty is Kindafem]

Misty: I am still not attracted to guys. I do not really fantasize having sex with them. I do not check them out. Yet I have a pretty romantic arrangement with a guy. I have come to like him a great deal and feel attracted to him now.

Well, the above paragraph pretty much sums it up.

You're attracted to a man. You said yourself that this is more than sex, so maybe you're falling in love with a man.

I'm sincerely happy for you, but do yourself a favor and accept your feelings.

You ever see that Tshirt that says;
"I'm not gay but my boyfriend is" I'm gonna make my next guy wear one of those.

-Misty

[NiCo]

You ever see that Tshirt that says;
"I'm not gay but my boyfriend is" I'm gonna make my next guy wear one of those.

-Misty

My boyfriend would wear that T-shirt too...he's bi, I’m gay...makes sense lol.

[Satrana]

Hi Reine

Had some relatives arrive from overseas so have not had time to reply until now.

You are speaking of having baggage. I sense this in threads and it is always a point on which I have a lot of compassion. But many GGs have their own baggage too

Yes baggage is a better term. I think though my point is our baggage is different from other baggage like abusive or dysfunctional relationships. Our baggage is a social taboo, our baggage is our gender identity and sometimes our sexual orientation get twisted in unusual ways so it can be difficult for others to relate to. But importantly I think many CDs themselves are unaware what to what extent their behavior has been modified since they spend most of the time hiding behind a mask. It does not leave much time for serious introspection and an awareness how we affect others around us.

I encourage doing what you can to incorporate your wife into your sexual fantasies, lest she should feel cast aside. Even if it means ... a lot of talking!

That is probably harder than you make it sound if you know that your fantasies are likely to be interpreted as meaning something that is not true.

Take me for example. I am 100% hetero having never had even the slightest hint of attraction to a man. So how can I fantasize about being with men? Because all my fantasies irregardless of the details are all about situations where the focus is on me accessing my femininity.

You are probably aware of other fantasies like being a bride or going to a prom. GGs probably are not anxious about these fantasies as they tend to focus on the feminine dress but when you think about it they are very obviously male-female sexual/romantic situations. To my mind they are no different to fantasizing about sex with men, they have the same objective.

This is why I was questioning the statements from GGs about how to compete. In reality you can no more compete with a sex with men fantasy than you can with a bride of prom fantasy.

she will feel deeply hurt. It will make it even more difficult for her to believe that her husband's fantasies do not take away from his lust for her, especially if they have issues in the bedroom.

I think men in general harbor fantasies that they keep to themselves because they know their wives will not understand that fantasies are just that. I don't think a man can control whatever images and ideas get him off anymore that you can control what colors you like.

If you look at hardcore porn which is pretty much exclusively targeted at men you know there is a lot of nasty and demeaning stuff in there. Lots of men look at this material even the sweetest most loving men do. You may not like the answer but I think you have to accept that males and females usually seek different things from sex and have a different mental route to obtaining it.

How can someone want something so much yet refuse it if the opportunity should present itself?

Because there is a difference between an obtainable fantasy and an "out of this world" fantasy. Most people can separate a fantastic scenario from reality and keep it solely as a fantasy. If you are hetero then you really do not want to be with a man ever.

And there are posts by CDs who have tried it and they want more.

Can I just throw some numbers in here. How many members of the population are gay or bi? I believe conservative estimates would place this around 10%. I understand there are 7000 active members here so that would mean 700 members who would reply with a positive answer. I have not checked but I would guess the number in this thread who said yes would be 100+.

I am throwing these numbers around to demonstrate that the perception that this thread with its large statistics must have real significance but perhaps it does not indicate anything unusual at all since the numbers fall easily within what you would expect from this forum's gay and bi membership.

Maybe everyone does have it in them to be bi, and CDs are more prone to experiment ...

Undoubtedly CDing loosens up the tightly sprung coil of male sexuality which relies on homophobia to keep men emotionally distant from one another. So those with bi tendencies will definitely be likely to explore while others may just experiment to satisfy curiosity. If we look at young women today - surveys indicate that as many as 50% experiment with at least one lesbian experience. This is what happens when gender definitions are loosened and so you should expect a similar trend in CDs (those who have reached self acceptance).

It is difficult for a GG to rid herself of doubts about her SO when so many CDs seem to be in denial about themselves.

I do not think it is denial. Rather it is an evolution of the gender identity over time until the choice to switch gender roles seems natural. There might be some denial at the end of the process when they are unaware of just how far they have traveled.

In all honesty, this thread is making me reexamine how I feel about having the CDing in my life.

Which is precisely why CDs keep quiet about this. In many ways this is a repeat performance over the issues of gender identity when pre-conceptions hit the wall of reality. Just as you needed to clear your mind of gender based norms, you need to understand that our baggage has affected our sexuality - not our sexual orientation per se but how we have integrated gender into our sexual drive.

It is difficult enough for CDs to convince our partners to be open minded about gender presentation, most balk at attempting to jump another hurdle. This is the real naivety of Tri-ess and the CD community in general - the desire to keep sexuality out of the equation because it seems like it is too much to cope with. Too many people unwilling to be fully honest about their deepest thoughts and desires. Although to be fair this is true of human race in general.

I am no exception. Despite being fully open about my gender from day one, my wife had to painfully extract my sexual thoughts like wisdom teeth one by one. It was not something I had the guts to reveal to her by myself. My sexual fantasy closet was one I was happy to keep closed but my wife was having none of it and pried it open. She knows what makes me tick and I in turn know what makes her tick. There is not much overlap so it is about taking turns with each other but we are learning to integrate it more together.

[Sheila]

Which is precisely why CDs keep quiet about this.

Which is why many GG's feel we are always having to play catch up, no sooner do some of us get used to one layer, when bam we get hit by yet another layer being peeled away

It is difficult enough for CDs to convince our partners to be open minded about gender presentation, most balk at attempting to jump another hurdle. This is the real naivety of Tri-ess and the CD community in general - the desire to keep sexuality out of the equation because it seems like it is too much to cope with. Too many people unwilling to be fully honest about their deepest thoughts and desires. Although to be fair this is true of human race in general.

If CDERs were open, honest and up front from the beginning, then we would have no need to balk at yet more and more.(and yes I know why you say you don't tell us, shame, guilt, you thought it would all go away in this new relationship, fear of losing us etc etc) ....... Many of us ask in the beginning the questions, "are you gay" (we may not ask "are you /bi/bi curious", although perhaps we should !!!! "do you want to be a woman full time/have srs", to those and similar asked questions we are told no, then wham time and again we are having to cope with the truth further down the line, which will yat again lead to trust problems, is it any wonder so many TG relationships flounder in this continued hide and seek relationship maze

I can honestly say not a lot has surprised me in this thread, I, a long time ago, read between many lines of what was said in many many posts and by many posters, talked with several and had my suspicions confirmed, what had saddened (if not surprised me) is the continued need for deception that many feel they have to practice with their partners, so many REFUSE to HEAR & ACCEPT, what we as GG's are saying ................. WE HATE THE LIES AND DECEPTION ................ they are what destroy relationships, (many not just in the TG world relationships), I am not advocating that we would jump up and down with joy, or even accept what we hear, but finding out after years of lying to us is not going to help the situation one bit ............... there again those are just my views and may be far wrong

[anda_mouse]

actually having my first date with a guy on wednesday...dont know what to wear. so eexcited

[Satrana]

we are told no, then wham time and again we are having to cope with the truth further down the line

If the CD knew at the time of asking then this is quite true. However often the CD is in denial or the subsequent issues we are discussing has not yet arisen. It takes time for the CDing behavior to influence other characteristics and like all things which proceed slowly, the changes can be imperceptible to the person until they become sufficiently large.

In most cases I think the issue is more about the CD learning about himself and how his behavior and thoughts evolve over time. So it is about the CD keeping his SO up to date with self-realizations and the progress in his gender identity. This is where the courage to be completely honest fails.

so many REFUSE to HEAR & ACCEPT, what we as GG's are saying ................. WE HATE THE LIES AND DECEPTION

Do you really think they refuse to hear or is it they understand but from their point of view they are weighing up the pros and cons. If you fear certain information could end your relationship, that is a significant reason to keep quiet. Fear does not produce reasoned decisions.

[Mistybtm]

actually having my first date with a guy on wednesday...dont know what to wear. so eexcited

congrates have fun and be safe

[StarrOfDelite]

[QUOTE=Satrana;2110500]Hi Reine



If you look at hardcore porn which is pretty much exclusively targeted at men you know there is a lot of nasty and demeaning stuff in there. Lots of men look at this material even the sweetest most loving men do. You may not like the answer but I think you have to accept that males and females usually seek different things from sex and have a different mental route to obtaining it.



I'm not sure if you mean gender men or hetero men or what with this generalization, but I can assure you that there is a boatload of pornographic material out there which caters almost exclusively to gay or bi- crossdressers and transvestites, to say nothing of the cuckold, sissy, and servant crowds, each of which has a niche in the market place. In the case of the fetish groups, I'm given to understand that verbal and mild physical abuse is part of the thrill, so it might not be nasty and demeaning to them.

Personally, I watch and read some of the better (i.e. quasi-romantic) transsexual hardcore porn and fantasize about myself as the feminine star. It is just as legitimate a fantasy as a fifty year old man with a beer gut who watches playmate-of-the-month pinup girls in hardcore.

Actually, if the men in the video porn industry were better looking I'd watch more of it, but I'm not attracted to fat, dark, hairy guys who resemble nothing so much as a shorter version of Hedo Turkoglu, and apparently that is part of the job description.

[Michelle8]

The more I dress the more I would be interested in dating
a guy.I could only do it dressed as a woman.i would love
to have a cute guy to do things with.

[Girl]

I love to fantasize about having sex with men.

Girl

[Georginamilnes]

Before my one and only purge,i had a relationship with a male,it was so good,when we kissed and made love I felt very feminine. He was gentle,loving,and considerate. At all times I felt just like a woman,and didnt even think of myself as anything else. I think its all about how you feel at the moment.xx

[creigh]

May I interject from a male prospective.

I have dated Trans and have been surprised how many seem to be afraid to show their feminine side. This is more so with Cross dressers, them MtF.

I find them better companions, and more likely to be caring, and intimate.

But finding one that wishes to have a lasting, or long relationship is practically not available.

Although I have been in relationship that lasted more then one night, there seems to be reluctance to extend closeness.

Your points are well founded over all.

[Misty is Kindafem]

But finding one that wishes to have a lasting, or long relationship is practically not available.

Although I have been in relationship that lasted more then one night, there seems to be reluctance to extend closeness.
.

Hmmm, I think many of us would say the same thing about men!

We're obviously out here, we just can't seem to find each other I guess.

-Misty

[Katari]

I am still trying to figure out what in h3ll women find attractive about men!

I am like most here. I have had some thoughts about it but then again, I like Laura's response"I do NOT find Men attractive at ALL!!!
To this regard, I have not put it out altogether so as to say the same as Sherri "The only men that could get me interested are the ladies here. But then beauty is only skin deep and I would realize that they are men and slap myself silly and keep it straight".

Katari

[Alberta_Pat]

My wife and I have had this discussion in the past. Truthfully, I will not rule out such an experience, but at this time in my life I would not embrace it either.

On the sexuality scale (1= straight, 5 = bi, 10 = gay), I would put myself at about a 3.

I can appreciate beauty in men and women, but look more to the mind set of the individual.

My wife IS bi, and she disagrees with my scale. She feels that bi is not in the middle, but right there at the top!

[cj]

I've always considered myself totally attracted to girls. But when I dress I do get curious. I promised myself I would try it at least once and I did not too long ago. I met a nice sweet younger guy on craigslist and we chatted for a while.... then we ended up meeting at a local park for a walk. He was a total gentlemen.... I took him by the arm and we strolled around talking about everything. This was the first time I ever outted myself to another person... I was so scared at first. Our little walk ended and we sat in his car for a bit because it was so cold out. One thing led to another and he kissed me. It was kind of odd being kissed by a guy... it was like I was outside myself watching it... thinking here I am dressed to the nines and this guy is making out with me. It was quite a thrill I must admit. And I did get turned on.... but I think it was the idea of him seeing me and treating me as a woman more so that me being attracted to him. It's kinda confusing. But it was fun and I would do it again if I ever got the chance.

[nax66]

im attracted to men and women. I've never been in a relation with a man, but would definately welcome the opportunity with the right person.

i feel the same way

[MissyW]

Not interested at all

[Drakba]

Hmmm.... I guess I am a hard-core lesbian. I cannot for the life of me figure out what some people find attractive about masculinity.
When I have my fantasies, I dream about turning the entire world femme. Everyone is femine and beautiful. Lots of pink, and lipstick, and painted fingernails, silk and satin.

When I have erotic fantasies, the closest I come to thinking about dating a guy, is dating a non-op TS (which I had done for 3 years, when I was much younger.)

[nancy_babe4]

I find no attraction for men, but when I'm dressed it is very exciting to think of doing what a girl does with a man. I have limited experience, but would love to learn more. The thought of a man taking charge and having his way with me is ver very exciting. I also feel that is the girls responsibility to please the man she is with..... Hmmmm, did I just say all that...

[joannemarie barker]

I find no attraction for men, but when I'm dressed it is very exciting to think of doing what a girl does with a man. I have limited experience, but would love to learn more. The thought of a man taking charge and having his way with me is ver very exciting. I also feel that is the girls responsibility to please the man she is with..... Hmmmm, did I just say all that...

lol kinda how i feel too nancy

[nancy_babe4]

I do relate to the person who said being kissed by a man is kind of like an out of body experience. It's like is he really kissing me as a woman... I know I've been extremely nervious around a man until he kisses me, then I just totally melt... the passion comes out.

[ReineD]

It's like is he really kissing me as a woman...

That's an interesting question. When a bi male kisses, is the kiss different depending on whether the person being kissed is male or female? I should think that people just have their own kissing styles and they are expressing their sensuality, no matter who it is they are kissing.

Or maybe women kiss differently than men? But I have to say that some men are much more sensual than other men just as I imagine women have varying degrees of sensuality too.