Interesting thread.
However, does anyone know what the situation is in the U.K?
Interesting thread.
However, does anyone know what the situation is in the U.K?
This is definitely an interesting topic. I do most of my public outings in Ohio and Indiana, and as of right now I don't know of any laws protecting us from prosecution for using the opposite gender's restroom facilities.
For now, I simply don't use public restrooms when I'm in girl mode, as uncomfortable as that sometimes becomes.
E²
The below article was written in refernce to a transitioning Dallas Police Office who attended the Dallas cd organization Metroplex Crossdressers Club. In brief it states that in Dallas, crossdressers may use the restroom of the gender that they are presenting themselves, but if issues arise with other customers, the proprietor can request that you leave the premisis. Its the general issue of You have the right, but do you want to make a big scene to prove the issue, or just comply and move on. However, legally the situation probably could not be taken further unless the officer on hand wanted to push the situation as "disturbing the peace" which has very broad (no pun intended) interpretation. I usually try to watch the door of the ladies room and predict when there will be few if ang GG's in there, then enter descretely, go directly to a stall, take care of business, and exit as quickly as possible. Sometimes this requires the ommission of washing my hands if other GG's have entered while I'm in the stall, otherwise a quick handwash, hair and lipstick check and exit work pretty well. I've never had a problem in my Ladies' Restroom experiences.
http://www.edgedallas.com/index.php?...&sc3=&id=81714
Paula
I have stated this before, and I will not make many friends here, but unless you are transitioning it is not right for you to go into the woman's restroom for one big reason. Most of the Genetic women DON'T WANT US THERE no matter how we are dressed. My wife loves me and accepts my clothing choices, but she still doesn't want a man in the girls potty. Just as I would prefer not to have a girl in the men's room. We need to look past our own selfish needs and realize that we are a minority out in public, and one of us going into the restroom of the opposite gender is just asking for the "Pervert" tag to applied, again. My .02, and sorry if I insulted anybody.
I was once asked
Did you use the ladies restroom to which I replied yes adding the comment
I would be really asking for trouble going into the gents dressed as a lady
I have never had any trouble as I use the policy recommended here of getting in and out as quick as possible but still washing hands etc
I would much, much rather be called a pervert than have my skull bashed in.Originally Posted by kimmy p
If ever I'm out fully en femme, I will NOT use a men's room unless I know it's deserted and likely to remain deserted.
Also, the two box system of gender fails here. I am not 100% male or 100% female. Neither and both bathrooms are appropriate for me.
While I disagree with you choice, I totally agree with the last 2 lines. And I will say that I have know a couple of GG's that would kick my a$$ without even trying. Despite me being literally 3 times their size. Please be careful.
Whenever I have been dressed and out in public I have always used the women's restroom. I'm not sure if there is a law against it here in Michigan but even if there was I'd still use the women's restroom.
ON THE FLIP SIDE.....Women seem to have no problem using the men's room when the line gets too long. And no one says anything to them !!!
At some point your life will flash before your eyes......MAKE SURE IT'S WORTH WATCHING !!
Indiana, Michigan, Kentucky and Ohio please...after several weird experiences using the men's since I didn't think I was "passing", apparently initial visual was not that bad. Even when I tried for a single stall restroom, I failed to find one yesterday.
as for OREGON LAW.... i shall defer to Stu Rasmussen (sp?) to answer that one.. cause i dont know
maybe it would just be easier if you told us which states you plan on peein in?
Just a thought.
OH boy I just know you were probably reading some of mine, trannie T, or Karren's responses when you thought of something like that.
While Kelly is right, she forgot to mention that some states do not have restrooms. Look at mapquest.com to find out which states have restrooms and which don't.
It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.
Can you say, "Civil Rights Lawsuit"? What that "father" did sounds a lot like harrassment and unlawful detainer. He could have gotten jail time.
I've long been conflicted on this issue, as it has been my desire to go into the ladies room while en femme. However, after reading this thread, I agree with the above statement the most. Yes, I know it presents a problem in a busy public place, but you can, if you try, make alternative arrangements. Options like: Single-stall bathrooms, where you'd be the only one in there and lock the door behind you (think bathrooms in places like Starbucks). Family or unisex bathrooms, as others have said. In a pinch, multi-stall bathrooms when you KNOW you'd be the only one in there and no one else would come in while you're there (think hotel pool locker-rooms when you're the only one around). I just don't think I'd ever be comfortable going into the ladies room in a busier public place... not because I'd be worried what people think of me, but more out of concern of the comfort level of the GGs who are/would be in there while I'm there. As stated above, if you're transitioning, I think it's a much, much different story. Otherwise, I think it's selfish to put what you think is "right" over other people's comfort level. Hopefully the general attitude of the public will change in the near future, but until then, I think we owe it to them to respect their feelings. Only then can we expect to see a reciprical response.
It is really interesting that in France they have unisex bathrooms. It's too bad we don't implement this concept in America.
You will become stronger in the ways of the Pink Fog. May the Pink Fog guide you and be with you now and forever.
Have to disagree, strongly. When out in public presenting and behaving as a woman I have every right to use the "appropriate" restroom. Just because not all states have ammended their laws to reflect the need for access to basic bathroom and civil rights is no reason for me to risk exposing myself to danger in a men's room.
Saying MOST of the genetic women don't want us there is just silly. I doubt very much that MOST women agree on many things and of course you haven't talked to MOST women. I've used hundreds of ladies room and have yet to even have a bad look, let alone a confrontation.
As for needing to use a safe rest room being selfish, that is just being pejorative without any cause. We all deserve access to safe, clean, personal needs areas. Being a minority doesn't reduce your rights in a moral society.
You also might want to stay on topic. This wasn't a discussion of whether we should use the ladies room. It was meant to catalog the progressive states that specifically protect that right for us. If you want to discuss the morality of it you're welcome to do that on your on thread.
Sally
This arguing about where to drop a deuce or whizz is old and silly.
Here is how to use the restroom folks -
go to the restrooms, kind of make sure no one is in there, go in, take care of business, get out.
OR, maybe on the way there or back stop by some place like a gas station where the restroom locks and are single occupancy so no one will walk in and catch you hiking up your skirt to piss like I do.
Man, people read way too much into restroom stuff.
I guess it is easy for me to say cause one time I got into some trouble over using the women's room. I was en femme. But then the day was saved when Super Tranny flew in to my rescue.
Super tranny is Superman dressed en femme. I hope she don't read this but those blue tights are SO 1970's.
It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.
I agree with Sally. She made the point very well.
A lot of people (even majority) may not like a particular group (a minority, say, gay, TG). That's where exactly the laws came in to protect the rights.
That's what we are trying to figure out here - What the laws are in terms of the restroom access rights, or restrictions. They may even be proposed to your representative if these are not clearly specified regulations.
Well, Iowa has a recently enacted law which protects the rights of transgendered folks in public facilities ( almost identical wording to the CA law). Since I'm full time, I checked with the local police and the Iowa Civil Rights Commission to see what those two groups had to say... which is very enlightening.
local police: you can only use the bathroom for which you have the correct "anatomy" (literally those were the words used)
Iowa CRC: you are allowed to use any public facilities for the gender you are presenting.
Seem at odds ? Yuppers! I even asked the dispatcher to check with the watch Commander ( which she did - exact same answer). When I was talking the ICRC folks I asked about this. Their answer was simply this: the law here hasn't been tested in court and as such, the police are unlikely to enforce it. The lady I was talking to said this is a common situation with newer laws, especially those that go counter to the old statues. She went on to say that they would gladly defend me if I ever did have trouble with this issue. I then went to the city governments Human Rights official and explained what I was told. Her reaction was to say that she would definitely give the police "another presentation about this issue ....". The law itself became effective July 1, 2007. So it will take time before they change their attitudes.
The moral is that even if there is a law to protect you, that doesn't mean you will not have trouble with that issue. Especially if it involves TG rights. I encourage everyone to go ahead and follow the local laws ... just be aware that in some cases you might still run into issues over it. Personally, I've never had trouble in a bathroom and don't really expect to. Other places are different (locker rooms etc).
Charlene
Last edited by CharleneT; 01-18-2010 at 04:01 PM.
There is a road—no simple highway—between the dawn and the dark of night.
And if you go no one may follow. That path is for your steps alone.
does anyone know the laws in PA??
[SIZE="3"]EXACTLY.[/SIZE]
This tangential subject has been discussed before, and every one of the GG's that commented on it said it was no big deal, we should use the ladies room.
And everyone please take an extra minute & wash your hands, most women would be disgusted to see you walk out of a stall & leave without doing so ( and you should regardless of gender identity anyway ).
[SIZE="3"]Gender is a state of mind[/SIZE]
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Doesn't look like it is at the state level, but in some towns there are local laws. Check this out:
http://www.padiversity.org/ProtectedClasses.html
The entire site looks like a good reference for those who live in PA.
There is a road—no simple highway—between the dawn and the dark of night.
And if you go no one may follow. That path is for your steps alone.
Whoa there. That's offensive. I see anyone leaving a restroom without washing their hands, be they male, female, or trans, I'm calling to the sanitation police. j/k
On the serious side, either they need seperate restrooms for CD's and Trans or they need to mandate unisex restrooms. The current system is a relic of the US' prudish puritan days.
I believe we have come a long way in proving, scientifically, that GG's are just as capable of fending for themselves as the macho male. In many areas, GG's clearly have superior mental skills as indicated by the fact that cerebullum and the bridge between the left and right wings of the brain is considerably bigger in women than in macho men.
I use the term "macho men" in this case because men who cross dress or who feel they are women trapped in men's bodies, have a brain structure actually identical to a woman's.
And what we bring from this is that you possess advanced mental abilities while the dude that stalks you and makes harassing comments is a neandertal stuck in the past.
You Americans are eons ahead of the UK as far as attitudes to CDs in general, never mind this particular topic are concerned. You appear to have simply a more liberal attitude to minorities of any kind, although we all know this was not always the case. Here in the UK, dare to be different, you risk a beating! I have been attacked for simply having long hair,therefore I must be gay!, even though I had my SO in tow. The majority of men I encounter in this country disgust me with their primitive / macho attitudes, which I know is all a sham, cos given the first chance for fancy dress ie. New Year etc. they will all be dressed has tarty schoolgirls! So with regard to the bathroom, as you Americans call it, I do honestly believe that the law in my country would probably / maybe /might arrest, or more likely, talk to the person / persons that jumped on your head for just not fitting to their stereotype, and tell them in no uncertain terms, that if they did it again, they would shout at them. So my advise is go before you leave, and dont drink while your out. I do however, live in the country, this may not apply to city folk.
You might benefit from checking this site out: http://www.transgenderlaw.org/ndlaws/index.htm
It has a map and other information about protections for CDs and transgenders. About a dozen states and the District of Columbia are pretty clearly on the side of transgenders using facilities that match the gender they are presenting.
Some other states have administrative codes that offer similar protection but that's harder to determine.
warmly, Linnea
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