What percentage of all CDrs to you think pass?

[Patti Remick]

As a Cdr, and one that does not pass very well, I was wondering how many CDrs (percentage of the entire CDg population) who have not had any surgery or take any hormonal therapies - only using makeup, wigs, foundation garments, padding, etc.- can pass well? Make your estimates based on what you have seen, not read about or heard from others. I understand everyones definition of 'passing' is different, just use your own definition. There is no right or wrong answer.

Just to be clear Im not asking if you think you pass, Im asking what percentage of all CDrs to you think pass.

My estimate from my lifelong CDg experience is that less than 5 percent of CDrs pass well.

Patti Remick

[StaceyJane]

I would have to agree. Some people can do pictures that look really good but in person it would be obvious.

[Sandy Banks]

I've only seen one other in public and someone pointed her out to me, otherwise, I would not have noticed................so apparently everyone one I've ever seen has passed and I do try to notice everyone................

[Super Amanda]

I think we can spot trans type folks easier than the general public, (I know I'm a big-time people watcher! ) so maybe it seems like less are "passable" than there really are. When I spot what I think is a trans person in public, I usually look at how everyone else is treating him or her. I've seen what I thought was not very passable, going unnoticed, and having a fine time.

I like saying I went unnoticed, because when out in public, surely some people realize I'm not a genetic woman, yet most people seem to be decent enough to treat me no different than anyone else.

So to actually answer your question....IMO maybe 12-15 percent of non surgical, or hormone taking crossdressers would fit the standard accepted definition of passing. It has to be on a sliding scale, because one person may think you pass, while another does not. Also, if we were in say, Thailand or Japan, I think that probably 40-60 percent of guys could pass as women!!

[Andy66]

Totally completely pass? I'm with you, less than 5 percent. But... if they pass well, they wouldn't be counted because they aren't noticed.

I think young CDs (teenagers and early 20s) pass well because they're still baby-faced. And very old CDs pass well because very old women often look like old men.

[Sarah Doepner]

At a gathering in Las Vegas last year a group of T-girls were all dressed to the 9's and leaving a resturant. A couple of guys seated nearby were picking the CDs and the wives out pretty easily. They were concentrating and were getting vocal cues as well. It seems they got better than 90% right. There were a couple of girls who just flat out passed.

I think in a more casual setting where the CD is moving alone and not trying to attract attention there is a much better chance of passing or at least being overlooked or simply ignored. The latter is what I go for, please, please just ignore the tall woman and look at the high-school cuties giggling over their latest text message.

[lavistaa62]

Also, if we were in say, Thailand or Japan, I think that probably 40-60 percent of guys could pass as women!!

Bring on the soy!

[MAJESTYK]

Absolutely zero. I f someone looks hard enough, they will find something that doesnt "fit". For anyone to "pass" 100% of the time, they would have to look like an idealized woman. Something akin to a Barbie doll. Even for females, it isnt possible. Most women, if you look hard enough , have some trait or another that can be construed as being male.

Now, I know some will become upset with what i say but it's true. Being "percieved " to be female is a collection of countless traits both physical and emotional. Next time you go out, just look at women. You will see they come in all shapes and sizes and all stages of fashion sense but, they are undeniabley Female. It isnt any that we can immitate. We should just be happy that we can fit in, so to speak.

Sorry, but I just hate the " passing" threads. I think trying to pass will make you fail every time.

[kimdl93]

I don't know - I'm always amazed by how pretty some CDers can be. Not many of us are so convincing. Details, like my hands, I think would be a dead give away.

[gabimartini]

Not sure. I don't recall ever clocking a CD, so they must've passed really well! Guess we are our worst critics in the end!

[Julogden]

I've spent a LOT of time in the company of all sorts of TG folks, and my opinion based on a lot of experience with the subject is that if we're speaking of CD's only (no hormones or cosmetic surgery), then I'd say that maybe 1% are passable once they're past their early 20's. I feel that most CD's who claim that they're passing are confusing passing with being tolerated and/or accepted.

Carol

[Super Amanda]

Even for females, it isnt possible. Most women, if you look hard enough , have some trait or another that can be construed as being male.

That's a bit harsh, dontca think? Especially when in the same breath you say:

Next time you go out, just look at women. You will see they come in all shapes and sizes and all stages of fashion sense but, they are undeniabley Female.

"Undeniably female" means totally passing, and would then mean is is not impossible for "women" right?

[HannahF6]

I guess I'd have to disagree with a lot of the posts here. I don't think I look particularly feminine, but I am certain that most of the world is unobservant.

If "passing" means "I can walk down the street in a skirt or dress and nobody guesses I'm a guy", I think it is not very hard because most people just don't pay attention. For the average person a glance of 1/10th of a second is all they need for an assessment, "there is a woman".

We tend to be sensitive to the issue because we stare in the mirror and see all of the flaws. But guys, put on a skirt and a wig, stuff your bra and walk down the street and most of the time nobody will pay attention.

There are ways of drawing attention, of course. I know a lot of CDers who will dress sexy and then go out at 3 am thinking that is safer because there are fewer people around. This truly draws attention.

Hannah

[Persephone]

Sorry, but I just hate the " passing" threads. I think trying to pass will make you fail every time.
______________________________
If you live your life in denial, you're all wet

Sorry, Majestyk, but I think you're swimmin' in denial on this one.

Sure, many folks are "handicapped" by physical factors, and, unfortunately, for some it may even be pretty damn impossible. While I do feel very bad for them, this post isn't about them, but about the large number of people for whom passing is very possible.

The problem is that many don't try to be the very best that they can be, they settle for mediocrity.

Passing is like any other skill, you have to work your butt off to make it happen. It's a lot of work, so most people fall back on their "I can't pass" excuse.

Yes, there are a million things you have to work on -- loosing the beer gut, how to walk, how to talk, how to minimize your figure flaws and maximize your good points, how to survive in "girl world," you name it, but it can be done if you're willing.

And, frankly, most of it is exactly what GG's do, the only difference is that they often learned the skills earlier than we did. Sure, mother nature may have given them a boost or two, but you think they just float through girl world? Ask 'em, they'll tell you it ain't that easy.

You want to win the prize you gotta stop whining, get off your butt and work at it.

[Gillian]

I have seen two recently that were an obvious non-pass and a couple that I strongly suspected were but were very convincing or should I say quite unconvincing GG's! but the wig's were the more pressing tell tale on them not walk or dress or anything, but my CDradar is always alert to these things so perhaps that was the reason I suspected?

[Brooke Smith]

I can't really answer your question,but I do have an observation.

I look at most people that come into close proximity. When I see anyone presenting as a woman,my brain says "woman" and I accept that is exactly what they are. However,I have a few times said to myself,"Geez,that is a very masculine looking woman",not acknowledging the fact that it in all likelihood she is a male. This has only happened a couple times that I can recall and I really need more than a quick glance for my head to get around the fact it is a guy after all.

This goes for people "on the street",maybe not so much for a club setting.So I guess I have to say,most of you will pass my casual encounter brain test.

If it looks like a duck.....

[Joanne f]

One thing i think you should take into account is that we are inclined to look for others like us in the hope that we will see one and not feel quite so alone, it is in our minds to look for the difference`s where as i doubt that many none CDers go out looking for them .

[Kate Simmons]

My guess would probably be not too many but then, again, who is really counting?

[love heels]

I think very few would realy pass there is always a small give away, hands, feet, voice, shape etc.
Lots take good photos there are lots of pic's on here that i would not look twice as being female! But in person i think most would spot the give aways!

But i think we are more critical than most because we recognise ourself in others!

[CharleneT]

You'll never really know the answer, simply because you do not know when you pass ! The only thing you get to find out is when you do not. Sure, maybe no one said anything or looked cross eyed at you ... doesn't mean they didn't read you. As several have said, many folks just do not care. Worry about blending, not passing. Life and dressing will be a whole lot more fun then. The funny thing is ... when you stop worrying about it, you'll start to blend more easily.

[Lorileah]

I would have to say 214 pass. That is just an estimate.

Once again I think the word "pass" should be stricken from the record. Way too much emphasis is placed on passing. Most CD's are over 5'9" Many have 40+ shoulders and very small butts. You may think of it as passing but it is more apathy. Hardly anyone cares.

[Sweet Jane]

my guess is 1%....but whats with the 'passing' fixation.....i think all most should care about is they can go and do their lawful business while being treated with dignity and respect by everyone else

....it helps if you leave the sky high shoes, miniskirts and fishnets at home i guess!!!

[Super Amanda]

Once again I think the word "pass" should be stricken from the record. .

I second that motion!!

If needed for descriptive purposes, I suggest either "blend" or "went unnoticed". I dislike "ignored"...just sounds mean.

[charlie]

I think that less then 5% of us would pass under scrutiny. However, as Hannah said, most people on the street are just going about their business and aren't checking to see if every woman walking by is really a guy. As such, most of us are able to walk down the street dressed and aren't hassled.

[nikkijo]

ive passed or so they say... 2 times ever and that was only briefly.. untill i said something.. but it was way to much work...