Being a woman, with full male rights?

[Tamara Croft]

So, sweetie, with all due respect, we are still waiting. Really, this is a subject we are ALL interested in.

Hell will freeze over first... you won't get an answer, because it's all and anyone that get's as baited as much as this member, would have posted links etc by now... so again, I'm calling this newbie post

next?

[makin' it real]

Jeez, Tamara, do you mind if I get home first before writing me off as not responding? Yikes!

What I'd planned to respond with prior to your post was something similar to the following:

I hope to not disappoint anyone, as I have no miracle nostrums or potions. All I did was research a bit (something I love doing, and in fact do for a living) and use various combinations of herb and creams (purchased at the local store, not homemade syrup-smellers) that are already well known to many in this community. The changes I've experienced have been modest and incremental, yet pronounced and quite gratifying. Your results may vary.

Yes, I've read any number of reports from people who've tried the more commonly known supplements for even a year or more with no effect. My experience has been different. I don't know why some people experience the desired results and others don't. That's one of the incredible mysteries of being human, and one of the great challenges for medical science (which is where I do my research) since many of the most popular pharmaceutical treatments for medical conditions work for only 10-25% of the people who use them. That's just the way it goes.

I didn't figure to go into any details about what I did to get the results for a couple reasons. First, because moderators have shut down, deleted, edited, or moved threads that give such details, I figured such details were unwelcome here and I didn't want to intrude. Second, because I was genuinely more interested in discussing the psychological and social issues associated with these changes, and finding out how others have addressed these issues in their own lives, than I am in trying to promote or defend any specifc methods for producing physical change.

Then finally, I had thought to extend an offer to describe my experiences in detail after talking in private with the moderators to see if such a discussion would be welcome. Hey, I'm new here. I'd sort of like to check with them first on what's okay and what I could maybe contribute.

Besides my own story, which really isn't much - definitely nothing special, and nothing more or less than a few others have described here as their results from herbs and supplements - I had planned to offer privately to the moderators the possibility of me writing up a more scientific review of a collection of natural approaches to feminization and breast enlargement, basically summarize the published evidence for and against, possible benefits and contraindications.

Hey, that's what I do. Just so you know I'm not blowing smoke here, I'll out myself even more and make this offer more publicly. I do research at a top-tier medical school in Northern California. I previously started a small alternative health center and expanded it over time to have offices in 3 towns. Each of the offices were located in or associated with conventional medical practices or hospitals. I have served on a hospital ethics committee as the complementary and alternative medicine representative and have been doing conventional and alternative medical research since 1995. I'm currently working on studies funded by two separate National Institutes of Health grants. For what it's worth. (Which ain't much - I still couldn't find my phone tonight, twice, even though it was in the chair next to me both times. Ah well.)

I assume the moderators have my private contact information. If you'd like, you can contact me privately to verify the above information and we can talk about the idea of me writing something up. It’s really not a big deal for me either way. I'm more than a bit busy right now, so wouldn't be able to do it right away, but I care about the topic and would be glad to add this to my to-do list.

Meanwhile, I attended a wonderful class this evening that inspired me, so I'm going to start up another thread to share tonight's wonderings.

Take care,

still just "makin' it real," haven't really had a chance to consider a name for on here. sorry.

[Karen564]

OMG!! I'm gonna need my thigh high boots if the BS gets any deeper....

Sorry Hun, this Ole TS girl has seen it all . and it won't fly by me...

But keep on diggin if your up to it.....lol

[makin' it real]

Shall I take that as a No, then? Okay. No worries. Anyone else?

[Empress Lainie]

Guess my breasts just grew on their own since the herbs must have no effect.

[Karen564]

Ummmmm, Duh, NO, not interested....I've got 4 years of REAL hormone therapy under my belt that was supervised by a REAL doctor & blood testing...
I'm as developed as far as I'm gonna get...

And I have pictures to back it up...but this is not the proper site for those......lol

[makin' it real]

Yeah, it makes sense, Karen, you wouldn't be interested. You've already done the full transition, and sound satisfied with your results. Wonderful. And of course you know far more about transitioning and medical hormones than I ever will. You've lived it. All I've done is read a very little about it. Experience trumps book knowledge every time!

I was actually making this offer to the moderators to write up some of the evidence for and against alternative approaches because there seemed to me to be so much interest by others in non-pharmaceutical methods, particularly for bringing about smaller changes, not full transitions. Since the moderators called me out publicly, I thought I'd offer up something I'm good at that might help reduce disinformation, which is what I thought they wanted to do as well.

So what about it, moderators? Again, you can contact me privately if you want, or tell me to go blow, publicly. I'm really okay either way (though I hope you'll be gentle about it). Meanwhile, I'm going to let this go and move on to other topics until and unless I hear from you.

Wishing you all the best,

makin' it real

____________________________________

“The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.” ~Albert Einstein

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Hi,

I feel caught on the horns of a dilemma. I love dressing in women's clothes, thinking in ways that more resemble those of women, and shaping my body to more closely resemble that of a woman. Even though I was wearing women's underclothes, pants, and shoes all day today, I couldn't wait to get home and get my girls into something a little more supportive and built for their shape. !

I've been using herbs for the past 4 months to help feminize my body, after finally coming to accept that this girlie part of me is worthy of love and respect, and permission to exist. That acceptance has been such a relief and release! Yay! I've given myself much greater freedom to buy and keep clothes, as well as start this movement toward feminization of my body.

Here's my dilemma. I love how my changing body feels. The slightly wider hips, bigger butt, shapelier legs, and OMG I've got Breasts!!!!! It's my lifelong dream coming true!!! I enjoy the changed emotional state I've been in, partly hormonal, and largely due to the greater freedom to be ME. I would love to continue moving this direction, but am concerned about acceptance by others. My boobs have already received comment from a co-worker who asked if I've been working out (and I was even wearing an undergarment with slight compression that day).

I enjoy the rights and privileges that come with being a man, and am sexually attracted exclusively to women. I want to continue sharing and growing in my professional relationships and personal friendships that have taken a lifetime to develop (I turn 50 next month), but I also want to bring more of this previously-shame-filled-now-seen-as-beautiful, life-affirming, joy-filled part of myself into greater personal and public expression.

I'd sure love to hear how you girls have handled it. Any tips or suggestions? Questions to ask myself or others? And yes, I am in therapy with a wonderfully understanding and insightful therapist. Working with her has helped me get this far. Now I'm hoping to hear more from you.

Thanks for listening.

makin' it real

_________________________________________

“The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.” ~Albert Einstein

just be yourself...i personally don't beleive 4 months of anything gets significant feminization, ESPECIALLY the hips.....but i hope for you its true

As far as your actual question, if you actually care for an answer, there are many girls that live very robust private lives and give up none of their male lives...you have to keep it secret, develop new friends in the TG communities that quietly thrive in many US cities, especially on the coasts, Chicago, etc...and just enjoy that part of it...if you bring your 2nd self into your male life...you are gonna have to deal with unfair consequences...its not fair, but its real life...

if you want to talk about herbals, and how you are "researcher" then you'll get bombarded because you deserve it...for example your 10-25% statistic is total and complete bullshit as it relates to HRT, which is effective for a vast majority of the girls that use it...if you disagree..lets see your empirical evidence...
if over time your research proves your concept is effective and SAFE for everyone....then that's different....but basically you are saying you're your own research subject...when your research is complete, and you have lots of evidence to back up your research , by all means publish it..it could be very exciting... btw..as a researcher....how many cm's have your breasts grown..your hips? how many measurements have you taken?

there is a smell test for any type of internet chat forum and so far, you are not passing it..


all the best to you
Kate

[Sarah...]

by male rights I do mean things like the assumption of competence.

Really? I couldn't possibly assume you to be competent. That would be very unfair.

[Kaz]

Interesting comments and ideas... maybe you need to question your attitude to women and why you are transitioning? If indeed you are?

[Karan49]

Makin it real,

When you talk about developing over a period of four months I find it hard to believe for several reasons. First, I see that my four sisters developed their well developed breasts over a period of years and during middle school I noticed it took years for the other gals to develope. It took two years for my own breasts to develope using a prescription hormone monitored by a doctor.

Now I hear from you of a treatment that far surpasses the natural process of female adolescence and the enhanced hormone therapy of respected medical practice.

Can you explain how your process out performs Mother Nature and the body's growth systems by a factor of six.

I'm just so scepical, but I'm willing to read what you have to say.

Karan

[Karen564]

Yeah, it makes sense, Karen, you wouldn't be interested. You've already done the full transition, and sound satisfied with your results. Wonderful. And of course you know far more about transitioning and medical hormones than I ever will. You've lived it. All I've done is read a very little about it. Experience trumps book knowledge every time!

After reading that, I could almost swear that I felt a whisper of smoke up my azz...lol

I have a friend here that asks me why I'm so mean...well, idk...sometimes certain people just pizz me off, and I'm one to say what's on my mind, maybe even more so now being 49 years young, but I'll try to be nicer...

And I want you to know that I have nothing against you personally and wish you the best, you do seem like a very nice, polite & a mild mannered person & all (that's the truth), but you would of gotten off to a much better start here if you left out your claimed results in 4 months time..that's where you blew any chance of being taken seriously or as crediable..even in the short period of time that I've been a member of this site, I've seen countless herbal salesmen pitches or try to pedal there product here, after a while, they all sound the same to me ..which btw, All seem to have so called Test Results after relentless researching, but theres always a catch somewhere..do you get my drift?

Earlier post I made when I said that you can keep digging if your up to it......

Well,,,,,, that was my subtle hint for you to stop digging...

[makin' it real]

Well, thanks Karen. I appreciate that. And yeah, I can understand how my initial posting could have been read as making some wildly outrageous claim, and I’m sorry for that. Truly, the changes have been minimal, but to me, any movement toward a more feminine body is an incredibly powerful experience. I try to be clear in all my communications, but it seems I didn’t hit the mark in that initial posting. Maybe it was my used-car salesman, overly-excited caps and exclamation marks that threw people off? “The slightly wider hips, bigger butt, shapelier legs, and OMG I've got Breasts!!!!!” Nah, that can’t be it! Whatever it was, it sure set off a firestorm, huh?

If y’all wouldn’t mind, I’d like to make those statements a little more concrete. No, I don’t have double-D’s after only 4 months. And I’m okay with that! I just measured myself right now, and I have lost 1” at the bra strap line (that surprised me) and gained 2” at the nipple line since the start of October. These are very modest changes, but in appearance and feel, I’ve got little girls for the first time in my life, and that excites me. I give them no end of appreciation. As to the slightly wider hips, I don’t see it when I look in the mirror, but I feel it when I sit in my car. My hips make contact with the sides of the bucket seat now in places where they didn’t before. That may just be from increased butt mass spreading out, but I don’t think so because though there’s 2 inches more at the butt measurement, there’s also 1 inch more around the top of each thigh. It has changed the balance of my body when I walk.

That’s it. Really, pretty minor changes. But again, that’s the only kind I want. I don’t want to transition, I just want to move toward a more blended position. The differences in my emotional demeanor have been equally subtle. I’ve come to think I have been suffering all my life from testosterone poisoning (NOT speaking medically!). I was initially concerned about how the reduced aggression might affect me professionally, because I thought it was a requirement, a sort of driving force for getting things done, but find my increased desire for connection with others more than makes up for it, and is infinitely more satisfying. Again, these are subtle differences, but I notice them.

As to any doubters about these changes, and whether it was herbs that did it, I'm reminded of the Chico Marx quote (when he was dressed as Groucho): "Who are you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?" In this case I'll go with my lying eyes.

Oh, and Karen? That paragraph of mine you quoted? I meant it. I know it’s hard to convey tone across the internet, but really do assume it as a given that you already know far more about hormones and transitioning than I ever will. I mean, I just think that’s kind of obvious. It’s like that line from a supposedly Chinese teaching, “Would you rather learn how to ride a horse from someone who’s read every book ever written on horsemanship, or from someone who’s been riding every day for the last 40 years?” Uh, partner me with the experienced rider please!

Thanks again for your kind words,

makin' it real

[kellycan27]

Gosh Karen.. Maybe you two should get a room......

[Karen564]

Gosh Karen.. Maybe you two should get a room......

Well there g/f,
Maybe we should.........

But you know I have Class tomorrow, thank you very much......

[kellycan27]

I haven't replied to the gist of this post because in all honesty I don't know a lot about herbs. I will say that while I was in college i did experiment with herb, and some really bazaar things did happen that I couldn't explain, but I was smoking em. maybe the method of ingestion has something to do with it? And... those munchies will put some weight on your a** if you aren't careful!
Just a thought.

Kel

[makin' it real]

And I have been sitting around on my fat ass a lot!

[makin' it real]

Uh, partner me with the experienced rider please!

Holy cripes! I forgot where I was writing when I said that!

Open mouth, insert... Cadbury Creme Egg?

[kellycan27]

Holy cripes! I forgot where I was writing when I said that!

Open mouth, insert... Cadbury Creme Egg?

You mean Karen? lol

[Karen564]

Holy cripes! I forgot where I was writing when I said that!

Open mouth, insert... Cadbury Creme Egg?

I really have nothing to be ashamed about....do you?