Lets compare

[Lucy_Bella]

Since meeting my girl friend and filling her in on my hobby , I have noticed things that I already knew but in a larger scale now.

There was a thread posted here that I asked her to read , it went on about how women can go out dressed in jeans and a t-shirt without notice.

My S.O. is a female version of myself, she enjoys wearing clothing targeted for men. She has expressed to me that she feels uncomfortable in a dress, make-up and would never wear nylons. She does shave her leggs but not as often as most women( don't get me wrong they are not hairy either).

She enjoys wearing boxers from time to time even sleeping in them. So lets compare.

If she goes out just as I mentioned Jeans , boots, T-shirt and boxers under the jeans with no make up on and hair pulled up ( she has long beautiful hair ). No one bats an eye at her, trust me I have been out with her when she is in full DRAB and she does it daily.

Now me ( and I never have ) if I was to go out dressed as her counterpart, I would be laughed at, poked at, asked to leave , or even beat up.

By the way after she read that thread she told me she totally understood and it was very unfair..

[Stephanie Miller]

Nobody would know she's wearing boxers, but her, so we'll just dicount that. Now that leaves us with jeans, boots & T-shirt. O.K. so far... I've worn them to and not been laughed at. Then we look at your "counterpart" wear. Here I'm assuming something feminine. Say a dress or skirt with a nice top and matching heels. Been there, done that too and not been laughed at.
HEY! Maybe your shoes didn't match!!! I would have laughed at you too.

[Lucy_Bella]

Shoes didn't match ,,,..I'd laugh to..

No what I mean is she doesn't use any type of forms she still looks fem in DRAB ..

[mklinden2010]

Thing is, when your GF dresses in drab, she's mostly dressing down. If she were to "dress to the nines" she'd get more attention, and possibly some that she didn't want.

"Fine" blouses, dresses, hose, heels... These are all designed to catch the eye and ATTRACT a certain kind of attention. Too much color, too short a skirt, too tall a heel, and, again, it's not probably the kind of attention that anyone wants.

Put "a guy in a dress" and you're going to attract some people who are going to feel high-jacked, "Hey, that's for real girls!" or, angry, "Hey, bud... You ain't no gal!" So there you are, stealing turf and frustrating those male wh***-moans.

Meanwhile, there you are in the middle - we hope - just trying to mind your own business. But, that can be a problem in public...

Word to the wise.

[Lorileah]

Life just isn't fair is it?

[kellycan27]

Maybe she should try a fake beard and stuffing a pair of socks down the front of her jeans? It might eliminate the question of whether she was trying to present as a man, or a gg who just liked the way guys look and dress.
Kel

[AKASadieGG]

This is just my opinion but, I dress just like that every day also. Including the sleeping in boxers. I think the difference is that when we dress that way we are not trying to pass ourselves off as men, we are not trying to be masculine. If we stuffed our jeans and wore a fake beards we would most likely get some negative attention too.

[sherri52]

It's not fair but the women had to fight to wear pants 100 yrs ago. They were willing to fight for that right, are you?

[Stephanie Miller]

That argument works Way2real until you put people like Ryan (About JiveTurkeyOnRye) into the mix. Here is a person that is not trying present as a woman - but enjoys the clothes. ( Sorry Ryan. Not trying to throw you under the bus - just need an example. No offense.)
And, again I understand where your going Kellycan until you factor in the points that not all men strut huge "socks" in their pants nor do all real ladies have big "headlights"
No.. I think IMHO (Good gravey I hate that saying "IMHO" - who the heck elses opinion would it be since I'm the only one sitting at the keyboard? )
No... I think it is the fact that the public in general has not and may never reach the point to realize who humans are by what's inside rather than whats outside the skin.

[Kaz]

She's pushing the boundaries... it's what girls can do at the moment (societally) - men can't... enjoy...

[JustWendy]

This is just my opinion but, I dress just like that every day also. Including the sleeping in boxers. I think the difference is that when we dress that way we are not trying to pass ourselves off as men, we are not trying to be masculine. If we stuffed our jeans and wore a fake beards we would most likely get some negative attention too.

But the question you have to ask yourself is, if society dictated that you couldn't wear pants or flannel shirts, if people made jokes at your expense if they saw you outside dressed like that, if your friends and family shunned you if you told them you liked wearing jeans, would you eventually modify your appearance to look more masculine so that you could go out dressed the way you wanted in the hopes of drawing less attention to yourself. I can't say for sure, but I think if I had always been allowed to wear dreasses and such and wear my hair in any style I wanted, I don't think I'd care about modifying my body shape to look more female. It's engrained in us that a dress doesn't look right on a male shaped body. It's meant for a female shaped body, so if we want to wear a dress and not look ridiculous, we modify our shape.

Wendy

Wendy

[AKASadieGG]

I didn't mean to offend anyone. I think a person should be able to dress as they please, but the thread was "Lets compare". All I meant was that most women who dress like that are not trying to present as male (and if they are, are subject to much of the same small minded attitudes) as men who dress in female attire and try to present as female. Am I making any sense or just making people angry, cause that wasn't my intention.

[Lucy_Bella]

I didn't mean to offend anyone. I think a person should be able to dress as they please, but the thread was "Lets compare". All I meant was that most women who dress like that are not trying to present as male (and if they are, are subject to much of the same small minded attitudes) as men who dress in female attire and try to present as female. Am I making any sense or just making people angry, cause that wasn't my intention.

You are making sense It's a very good point also...

I am not and never will be a GG,, I have no clue why one perfers to dress in DRAB with out make up and hair pulled up...I also have no problem with that at all just to be clear..

Like one poster said there are some who do the same as my GF but a male version ... I have never done it myself ( go out that way ) but I am sure if I did I would be in for it.

Now I also agree that some of us ( me included ) have the urge to be seen that way ..So we tend to emulate or add forms or make up, to be honest and for me that stuff sucks and makes a mess but the 5 oclock shadow has a mind of its own ..

Thanks for posting GG's are a great imput

[Hope]

To quote Madonna, quoting Ian McEwan:

Girls can wear jeans
And cut their hair short
Wear shirts and boots
'Cause it's OK to be a boy
But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading
'Cause you think that being a girl is degrading

[JustWendy]

way2real - I can't speak for everyone, but certainly wasn't offended or angry. I was just trying to add to the discussion. You make a valid point and I was just trying to offer a possible explanation as to why it's different for women. Communication is good - it gets us all thinking.

Wendy

[kellycan27]

That argument works Way2real until you put people like Ryan (About JiveTurkeyOnRye) into the mix. Here is a person that is not trying present as a woman - but enjoys the clothes. ( Sorry Ryan. Not trying to throw you under the bus - just need an example. No offense.)
And, again I understand where your going Kellycan until you factor in the points that not all men strut huge "socks" in their pants nor do all real ladies have big "headlights"
No.. I think IMHO (Good gravey I hate that saying "IMHO" - who the heck elses opinion would it be since I'm the only one sitting at the keyboard? )
No... I think it is the fact that the public in general has not and may never reach the point to realize who humans are by what's inside rather than whats outside the skin.

My point was that a gg in jeans and a t, doesn't go as far as a cder with wig,make-up,breast forms and the clothing. So where is the comparison that the OP was citing? If the GG did dawn the fake beard,bulge etc, she would no doubt get some strange looks and comments also. I was addressing the "comparison" comment... not society's acceptance of men who wear women's clothing.
Kelly

[suchacutie]

Let me give it a try:

I put on a flannel shirt, jeans and loafers. My wife puts on a skirt, stockings, heels, and a femme blouse. No makeup and just combed hair.

We switch clothing.

No one would notice her. I'd be noticed!

but you are all correct, it should be apples to apples whatever the comparison is.

P.S. which is why fitting in as a woman is highly preferable for me think: blend

[Ze]

And a blah blah blah blah blah.

Really, how many times does this topic have to come up? I'm getting really freaking sick of it.

GFs earned the right to wear pants because they fought for it. And out of all the things that GFs in the States still don't have due to sexism, why the hell do CDers here always have to start moaning about the one thing that tips the balance the other way? And I'm not even getting into the whole stone's-thrown FtM comparison here, but I'll say that blanket statements such as the original are insulting to both GFs and FtMs. Because, believe me, people don't know how the hell to differentiate sometimes, both here and in the real world.

Case closed. Go fight for it instead of complaining. Think about the other viewers of these threads before you write. Live long and prosper.

[Engendered]

why the hell do CDers here always have to start moaning about the one thing that tips the balance the other way?

Because that one thing happens to be.....

[Ze]

Because that one thing happens to be.....

And I'm not denying that. And I'm sure it's very, very frustrating. (I should know! I deal with it myself in an alternate manner; the inability to dress how I want!) But to see thread after thread complaining about this sort of thing does no good. If it bothers people so much, then actually go out and DO something about it, especially when what is being complained about was only accomplished by individuals in the past that did go out and do something about it.

Mesh this with the numerous threads wondering why women don't wear corsets/slips/stockings/heels/etc anymore--and giving the end result that there seems to be something wrong with them--and then add in all the "why doesn't she accept me and do everything I want?" threads, and it makes me boldly question whether sexism is actually a character trait of CDing or if it's more a generational thing.

CDers have a higher correlation of hating/putting down/making fun of GFs and FtMs. (Ever notice the trends here?) Yet these same actions admirably do not seem very rampant in transwomen.

So somebody please tell me what's going on because I sure as hell don't understand.

[Lucy_Bella]

This happens everytime , Blah Blah Blah.. Who says no one here had to earn it?

It was a simple topic to which no whineing was involved It's a simple fact earned or not that wasn't brought up by the OP ( me) .. Let me ask you something ..While women where earning this so called right to dress in DRAB ..Did other women beat them to death as a hate crime if so it's news to me.. Give credit where credit is due yes they fought and yes they earned it .. But ask yourself at what expense ? Looks like apples to pine apples to me ..

GG's I am in no way denying what was fought for in any of you .. But it was years ago and you couldn't vote either or have a good paying job.. Hats off for that .. you done well ..

But even GG's not neccasary in here would have to admit seeing a male in frock is a joke to most people that comment does not reflect my opinion BTW..

A simple topic sorry it was brought up..

[Ze]

Are you familiar with rape and domestic abuse? Death threats? Sexual and physical harassment? Torture and maiming? Daily objectification in too many ways to mention? And that's not including "accidental" deaths. Are you implying that the current situation of CDers trying to dress en femme is harder than the situations of GFs both back in the day and currently? We're back to the point of my argument, it would appear.

And yes, it would be helpful next time if members did a search on their topic within the forum before they make a new thread. I'm sorry, this topic is nowhere near as simple as you may perceive it to be, and this was definitely a straw-that-broke-the-camel's-back thread to me.

[Lucy_Bella]

Are you familiar with rape and domestic abuse? Death threats? Sexual and physical harassment? Torture and maiming? Daily objectification in too many ways to mention? And that's not including "accidental" deaths. Are you implying that the current situation of CDers trying to dress en femme is harder than the situations of GFs both back in the day and currently? We're back to the point of my argument, it would appear.

And yes, it would be helpful next time if members did a search on their topic within the forum before they make a new thread. I'm sorry, this topic is nowhere near as simple as you may perceive it to be, and this was definitely a straw-that-broke-the-camel's-back thread to me.

Awe Yeah ...do these things happen to women because they are dressed IN DRAB??? If you have seen this type oof post before then why bother repling ?

[Ze]

Awe Yeah ...do these things happen to women because they are dressed IN DRAB???

Wow. You're seriously missing the point of my efforts in their entirety.

If you have seen this type oof post before then why bother repling ?

Because usually I don't. I always try to hold off because it seems the message won't get across anyway, thus making it a complete waste of my energy and time. And since it seems this theory was right from the get-go, I believe I should cut my losses now, conserve my energy, and put it towards something that has a chance.

I really wish my original question would be answered, but I'll just have to figure it out elsewhere.

[Lucy_Bella]

Wow. You're seriously missing the point of my efforts in their entirety.

Yes I am due to the original post that said nothing about anyone earning any rights or my made up grudge against the fact women can do it..I am happy for them I promote it and stand by them ..I said nothing about murders, raps , domestic violence.. I was compareing the facts of the OP..

Because usually I don't. I always try to hold off because it seems the message won't get across anyway, thus making it a complete waste of my energy and time. And since it seems this theory was right from the get-go, I believe I should cut my losses now, conserve my energy, and put it towards something that has a chance.

I really wish my original question would be answered, but I'll just have to figure it out elsewhere.

You attacked me because this thread offened you for some reason and placed theroys from it that was never said from me..there are 1000s of post I am new here sorry I can't say I won't have the same thought as someone else did a few years back..