Admirers

[Sarah_GG]

We went along to a regular event last night - magic-theatre.co.uk - but found that it wasn't as good as it usually is. The reason (we think?) is because there were a lot of 'admirers' or 'tranny chasers' there.

I found myself questioning what it is about these individuals that I find... well, a bit creepy. For starters I think it's because everyone else makes a real effort and dresses up (and this particular 'do' is a real dress-up, anything goes type of event) but the admirers don't make any effort at all. I also find that they seem to 'letch' and drool a bit too much.

I just wondered what the general consensus is about 'admirers'? I'm usually very open-minded about most things but there's something about the lurking and letching that I find a bit... I don't know? I guess I'm questioning my own prejudices.

Thoughts welcome!

[Fab Karen]

Some are just what you described ( in some cases worse ), and some are true gentlemen that are thoughtful & caring.

[Tracey Corset]

I know what you mean Sarah, It's one of the reasons we don't go out much any more, we had a similar experience at the way out club, it didn't bother me too much but my wife found it too creepy, she won't go again and i respect that

[noeleena]

Hi,
On an other forum tv chix, i did ?? this as at the time i had no idear who what they were , as i found out latter on . i heard about them & the comments were not nice , hence i backed away.

im a woman & im not interested in any details that they are about , & thats it .

Now there may be some nice men among them so i just leave it there .

...noeleena...

[BRANDYJ]

My opinion on admirers is overall..not a good one. But then again, maybe because I am not interested in men in anyway. I see them as predators simply looking for kinky sex. In many cases, the kind they don't get from their wives. But I suppose they are not much different then the crude predators that hit on GG's with the same mostly tacky approach. Many are bisexuals that somehow think that if they are with a cross dresser, that it is somehow OK to be bi since they see us as a woman with something extra.
Read Craig's list. You will see some that say they are straight, but looking for a CD/TV/ trans. And usually with very graphic details of exactly what they want to do to or with a T-girl. It's not pretty. I imagine there are exceptions. But for the most part I still view them as predators. But what do I know, Never been with one and never will.

[Billie1]

[SIZE="3"]For the most part, like Brandy said, chasers are interested in only one thing. I get the feeling of being 'stalked', and I can relate to GG's when they are hit upon by similar individuals. For the most part, they are kind of creepy in the way they act. [/SIZE]

[msniki48]

[SIZE="3"]For the most part, like Brandy said, chasers are interested in only one thing. I get the feeling of being 'stalked', and I can relate to GG's when they are hit upon by similar individuals. For the most part, they are kind of creepy in the way they act. [/SIZE]

Billie, what you say is so true,it would be like a typical bar scene at the jersey shore...lol typical guys looking to hook up....except we are a little more specialized i guess Of course that is the bad side, I am sure there are many admirers that are sincere. [ both male and female] i have been on a couple of chat sits where the admirers were totally respectful.

other wise, those of us gurls that are looking for men, would never find a man that they could have a lasting relationship with...i know there has to be some with a "happily ever after" somewhere

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

My problem with the majority of the "chasers" that I've seen is that they don't view the trans person as an individual but rather as some sort of ideal or concept. Case in point, even though I show my boy face in the vast, vast, majority of my pics, I still occasionally get friend requests or emails from guys on my CDing myspace page telling me how "sweet" a girl I am and how they'd love to treat me just like a lady. I even had a guy feminize my name once in an email "Ryana" when referring to me. As annoying as this is, it's no where near as bad as the old days before I was close to coming out, and my pics were of me dressed as a girl but with no face pics. The things these guys would suggest in the very FIRST email they'd send me... I couldn't believe their total lack of any smoothness or tact or anything. Even if I was into what they wanted, they were going about it in a horrible way.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I think its just another form of human sexuality and its unfair to broad brush one group ...

there are lots of folks here that want to be dressed as a woman and have sex with men and/or women...is that creepy? i don't think so, and if you think these chasers are creepy then i wonder what people think of you?

men in general chase women...thats the way it goes...and yes, some of these guys are trans and can't admit it, some are gay and can't admit, so what??

I've met alot of guys and some creepers, most are not.
in fact, in my short time span living as a woman, the creepiest person i've met is a natal woman that stalks my friend and i at transevents...

[Karren H]

Just getting drool on my pretty dress would creep me out!!

[Barbara Dugan]

I think its just another form of human sexuality and its unfair to broad brush one group ...

there are lots of folks here that want to be dressed as a woman and have sex with men and/or women...is that creepy? i don't think so, and if you think these chasers are creepy then i wonder what people think of you?

men in general chase women...thats the way it goes...and yes, some of these guys are trans and can't admit it, some are gay and can't admit, so what??

I've met alot of guys and some creepers, most are not.
in fact, in my short time span living as a woman, the creepiest person i've met is a natal woman that stalks my friend and i at transevents...

I totally agree with Kaitlyn

[Staci G]

Well the last worry I have is someone stalking me I think they are in their own closet and don't want to admit they want a man, but instead they feel like it might be ok if they pretend to be attracted to a woman even if she has a penis. I hope someone understands where I am going with this. If you think I am confused think how the chasers must be

[Cassandra Lynn]

Sarah, when i first clicked on your OP i felt excited, thinking about the possibilty of meeting accepting and supportive GGs at an event, and the thought that there were places one could go where meeting real women existed. I guess i forget that admirers come in both sexes, and so i wonder, are there GGs out there that would attend an event, or go to a club with the intent of meeting a TG/CD.

Not trying to hijack your thread dear, it just got me to thinking? I've only been to the alternative nightclubs here a few times and never dressed, but observed the patrons who were and although i didn't see any of them being hit on by men, i've heard it is common. And they did appear to group up together and stay somewhat separated from the rest of the crowd, but i couldn't tell why.

They were having conversations with the real women and seemed to be treated kindly, and i can only assume that it was just talk and not an attempt to spend time together. So if anyone has any thoughts on whether there are GGs who frequent the clubs or events because they are interested in the TG/CDs out there i'd surely like to know? I guess i'd be really suprised to find that there is? mj (Cassie)

[Mea GG]

I have an analogy re the chasers. Let's see if this makes sense.

I have a lesbian friend at work that will sometimes refer to BBWs, big beautiful woman, which is a phrase I hate. It kinda doesn't sound so bad as each word...but the problem is the BBW-lovers, chubby chasers, who like a girl only or mainly because of her size (maybe there is a female equivalent but if so I have not heard of it).

Just like most of us (and by us, I mean humans), I want to be loved for WHO I am. And the people being discussed here maybe fall into that category, where it is just about a sexual fetish and nothing to do with caring for people as individuals.

Now the chubby chaser is gonna buy chocolates or whatever your favorite is and sabotage weight loss efforts out of their own selfish desire. And the guy that wants to mold you into his skinny ideal image is no good either.

So it boils down to is one aspect of ourselves an object of another's desire or are we complete individuals relating in a human way to other complete individuals.
~

[Kate Simmons]

Hmm perfect timing on this thread I'd say. Are admirers creepy? Hard to say because the admiree seems to have some input into that as well. In fact, they would not remain an admiree unless they wanted to in my opinion. Maybe some needs are filled both ways. In any case I think it should be a requirement for said admirers to have run the gamut of the admirees before attempting to admire them . In other words, literally walk a mile(or more) in a CD's shoes before asking them out.

[TxKimberly]

The majority of the admirers I've met give me the creeps. To the best of my memory, there were only two that didn't - one guy in Indianapolis and one guy in Southern California. With out exception, the rest of them I've met make me very uncomfortable.
I remember the first time I went out in the Boston area. I'd just had a makeover by Jamie Austin (before she went pro) and went with another Tgirl to Jacques. From the moment we entered, until the time we left, this one guy sat there and stared at me. He didn't smile, he didn't wink, he didn't say "hi" - he just sat there and stared for more than an hour. I just shivered just thinking about it. . .

. . . So it boils down to is one aspect of ourselves an object of another's desire or are we complete individuals relating in a human way to other complete individuals. . .

What an awesome post, and so right on all accounts. Most of us want to be loved for who we are, not what we are. My wife and I laugh every once in a while about ourselves. When we married, my wife was a tiny little thing that all of the boys (yes, including me) were drooling after. When we married, I was a soldier in the US Army, with the body and attitude that comes with that ultra macho profession. Now more than 20 years later, my wife weighs almost twice what I do, and she is stuck with a somewhat feminine guy who had gone to great lengths to get rid of all of his body fur. We are nothing like the people we were when we married but I still love and adore my wife, and am pretty sure she feels the same about me. I love HER, not her body . . .

[DonniDarkness]

I have something to offer on this subject stemming from the few times i have gone to metal concerts and gothic halloween balls, dressed half femme/half goth boy

OP:
I just wondered what the general consensus is about 'admirers'?

Admirers: These are really more often than not closeted cd's as well. Although some are just appreciative of us as we tend to fall in the "art" genre of dressing, being children of the night and embracing our love for taboo. And the looking (lurking), if that person doesnt say anything and is just looking, you have to remind yourself of the 2-3 hours you took to get rdy to get looked at, i mean its just silly to think i wont be looked at wearing combat boots and a fishnet top with my face painted like the crow... But really if they just look,stare,gawk or lurk thats fine, enjoy the visual attention.

i guess as long as they are polite when they speak, arent completely obnoxious, and keep their hands to themselves then let them be them, as they are fine with who we are

[NathalieX66]

I've only begun being out in public (such as bars & nightclubs) beyond support group meetings within the last three months, not counting halloween, and I'm kind of new at this, so bear with me here if I don't have as much insight.
I don't mind being admired & complimented, that's what makes being out & about fun. People are very prone to interact with you. I was at a LGBT nightspot recently, and was offered drinks about 4 times, but one guy was so persistent ( and also drunk as I could tell buy his slurring speech) that he followed me from the bar back to the table I was with other people. The place was packed and I had to listen to his drivel and constant compliments & drink offers, while waiting over 5 minutes for the bartender to serve me. He patted me on the shoulder once, and I could tell where this was going. That's when the red creep light went on in my head. Fortunately once he saw my company he dissapeared.

I would think that women have this exact problem, but I also agree with JiveTurkeyOnRye as being a "sort of ideal or concept" rather than an actual person, as if we are public exhibitionists looking for thrill, and they become thrilled themselves when they see me. Normally I would just tell them that I'm a lesbian when push comes to shove.

But I also find these stalker-type creeps perplexing because there doesn't appear to be any end goal that seems meaningful. There's more than just the booze talking.

[Lorileah]

Some are just what you described ( in some cases worse ), and some are true gentlemen that are thoughtful & caring.

A gentleman is simply a patient wolf.

Ever notice how the seabirds tend to flock around schools of fish? It is easier when the prey is herded into a small area and events like you describe do that.

It comes from the misconception, and it doesn't just fit CDs but even GG's who take time to look good, that they only dress up or act like "that" to get a guy. And be honest here, a good many DQ's will take anything with XY chromosomes. I agree that there are far too many "tranny chasers" at these events and I will add that there are far too many trannys who use extra bait. All it takes is a couple of TGs whose sole purpose is to fulfill the "dream" of being all woman and having a man that when closing time comes even the dregs can get a hook up.

One thing about this site is that is a rarity. I am considered the classless dresser here and I really have a more club look when I go out. Once in a while we get a thread that has the "have you ever been with a man like a woman: threads but they are few here. In the real world I think it is far more common. It isn't unusual here in Denver to see TG's on the prowl for what you describe and that becomes the common perception. Most people here will agree that what "we" do isn't a sexual fetish (even if it started out that way)

[Rachel Morley]

Some are just what you described ( in some cases worse ), and some are true gentlemen that are thoughtful & caring.

I agree with Karen here. I'll be honest and say I've not had "that" much interaction with admirers, but with the ones I have met in person, were super nice to me and perfect gentlemen and I didn't feel like I was being "preyed upon".

[StarrOfDelite]

I think it would be helpful on this thread if the posters identified themselves as to their own sexual orientation. I'm not sure that a person who identifies as a hetero crossdresser is an unbiased observer, since by definition wouldn't they think sex with any man was creepy?

Also, are we calling every man who enjoys the company of a Trans-girl an Admirer, or just the guys who show up for the Girls Nights Out with their macho pride sticking out in front of them? There are plenty of nice guys out there who admit they are Bi- and who are enjoyable company for bi-sexual or gay crossdressers. Many of them wouldn't be caught dead at a staged event.

Personally, I identify myself as an omnisexual, and I pretty much stay out of fetish bars nowadays. Not because of the Admirers, but because I think the whole experience is a too artificial. The Queens are there, the Admirers are there, the Hetero CD's and sometimes their GG wives and girlfriends, often ******* pro's showup in the bigger cities, there is usually a large contingent of uncertain lurkers, and there is always some sort of outrageous entertainment. It tends to wear on one after a while, not because the people are creepy but because of sensual overload.

If a person goes to a fetish bar, or a fetish event then why shouldn't you expect to find creepy people of all sorts of sexual orientations? And, let's face it, the overwhelming majority of the population which isn't GLBT pretty much thinks of ALL of us as creepy, too., even tho many crossdressers are just as homophobic as the general population. If you want to enjoy the sights at a fetish bar, don't go dressed, because then you are part of the sights, and fair game for the rest of the exhibitionists.

I'm fortunate because I've moved to New York, and there are friendly places to go which aren't fetish bars. When I lived in NE Ohio and western PA, there were only gay bars which have "Girls Nights Out." When the bar promotes the first or second Saturday of every month that way, you're going to have all sorts of Strange Ones show up, and don't be surprised if you're considered to be one of the Strange Ones.

[Sarah_GG]

Lots of response... thanks everyone for your input.

I think its just another form of human sexuality and its unfair to broad brush one group ...

I agree. As I said, I'm a broadminded, free-thinking individual. I have no problem with any adult doing whatever it is that floats their boat. I wanted to question my own prejudice with this particular group.

there are lots of folks here that want to be dressed as a woman and have sex with men and/or women...is that creepy? i don't think so, and if you think these chasers are creepy then i wonder what people think of you?

I have no issue with anyone's sexual orientation. I noticed last night (and have noticed in the past) that this particular group of individuals don't seem to join in with the main throng. The event last night is billed as a sort of burlesque, dress to fulfill your own fantasy (as long as it doesn't involve nudity or cause offence) so the majority of people have great fun getting involved in fantasy burlesque dressing. The 'tranny chasers' don't. They come wearing anoraks and grubby sweaters and don't dance. They just (I'm aware this is a sweeping generalisation) seem to leer.

men in general chase women...thats the way it goes...and yes, some of these guys are trans and can't admit it, some are gay and can't admit, so what??

I had read that in 'Alice in Genderland'. So what?! Absolutely. I'm just making the comment and asking the question.

I've met alot of guys and some creepers, most are not.
in fact, in my short time span living as a woman, the creepiest person i've met is a natal woman that stalks my friend and i at transevents...

Oh dear. Sorry to hear that, stalking is indeed creepy.

Now the chubby chaser is gonna buy chocolates or whatever your favorite is and sabotage weight loss efforts out of their own selfish desire.
And the guy that wants to mold you into his skinny ideal image is no good either.

So it boils down to is one aspect of ourselves an object of another's desire or are we complete individuals relating in a human way to other complete individuals.

Yes this explains my issue. It's not the individual they're interested in, just the transness.

Admirers: These are really more often than not closeted cd's as well. Although some are just appreciative of us as we tend to fall in the "art" genre of dressing, being children of the night and embracing our love for taboo. And the looking (lurking), if that person doesnt say anything and is just looking, you have to remind yourself of the 2-3 hours you took to get rdy to get looked at, i mean its just silly to think i wont be looked at wearing combat boots and a fishnet top with my face painted like the crow... But really if they just look,stare,gawk or lurk thats fine, enjoy the visual attention.

i guess as long as they are polite when they speak, arent completely obnoxious, and keep their hands to themselves then let them be them, as they are fine with who we are

It's the lurking (not joining in) that I find difficult to accept. Great, by all means go along to an event where there are lots of gurls to admire, but can't they at least enter into the spirit of the evening. Last night was the first night that so many 'admirers' had been to this particular event and the general vibe was quite different to how it usually is. It's a night that originally attracted all ages, sexualities and genders and was (until last night) a really fun and friendly place to be.

My problem with the majority of the "chasers" that I've seen is that they don't view the trans person as an individual but rather as some sort of ideal or concept. Case in point, even though I show my boy face in the vast, vast, majority of my pics, I still occasionally get friend requests or emails from guys on my CDing myspace page telling me how "sweet" a girl I am and how they'd love to treat me just like a lady. I even had a guy feminize my name once in an email "Ryana" when referring to me. As annoying as this is, it's no where near as bad as the old days before I was close to coming out, and my pics were of me dressed as a girl but with no face pics. The things these guys would suggest in the very FIRST email they'd send me... I couldn't believe their total lack of any smoothness or tact or anything. Even if I was into what they wanted, they were going about it in a horrible way.

Exactly. These 'chaser's don't seem to be interested in or attracted to any one particular person - any transvestite/crossdresser/transexual will do. They're not fussy at all.

Last night a couple of CDers commented on it and said the same thing, "they're creepy" and "they're only after sex with a tranny". I maintain... they're just a bit... seedy.

[msginaadoll]

Theres creepy in every group.I have met men at clubs who are generally nice and are pleasant to talk to. I have met others that give me the willies. I have met cds who give me the creeps-they seem to want to be more than friends and come on too strong. As mentioned a lot depends on your sexual interests. Im sure most straight cds will be creeped out by men hitting on them. It is a lesson to be learned though know some of us know how females feel like.

[CherryZips]

Yes I can relate to the creepy guy stories.

I used to go to fetish clubs about 10 years ago and I was occasionally felt up by guys. As a straight guy it kind of put me off. And I can see that a gay guy or woman gets the same from predatory men in general.

In saying that I am considering returning to the scene. I like the mixed environment, fetish women and I miss the company of sexual outsiders.

It probably depends on what I see in the mirror the next time I get dressed.

[Nicole Erin]

I don't mind admirers, I do expect they try to be presentable.

Gentleman in public, stud in the bedroom. If he can such such, I will be -
Lady in public, w**** in the bedroom.

I am not attracted to men per se but if a guy were to be at least presentable and have similar "intimate" interests, I would be all over it.