Why CDs Have a Negative Image

[Tamara Croft]

Angel I coulda written that myself, well said!!!

Only you can change the way society percieves you, only you can educate the idiots that give you labels. Yes there are a few CD's out there that could give you a bad name, but there are more of you out there that outweigh them. Of all the members on this forum...... and there are a few thousand, I've only seen one that had some perverted fetish towards his daughters lingerie..... but that was one..... and that one was soon outweighed by the members on this board. And before you go on to tell me how hard it is, I know, I know that it's not as easy just to go out there and make yourself heard, but until you get out there and tell the world that you're sick of being labelled..... how will things ever evolve?? It's not up to film makers to fix things, it's up to you. Women didn't get to vote by making a film about it, they stood up for their rights.... so you should do the same.

[Ophelia D'Void]

One would have to save a drowning child while dressed to get any good news, so no wonder the general public sees CDs as weirdos.

Unfortunately, if we did happen to save a drowning child, we'd probably be beaten to death with purses, what with people thinking we're trying to rape the little kid when we give mouth to mouth.

[Tristen Cox]

Ya know some day it's gonna SUCK when they are the freaks and the minority instead of us. Then the tables will be turned, and they will know how it feels to spend your life watching your step.

I can't wait!

[Ophelia D'Void]

Well, actually, that sort of thing is happening in Southern California, with Caucasians becoming a minority, and Hispanics and Asians becoming more numerous, but that was met with alot of anti-affirmative action legislation and quasi-racists anti-immigration laws, but that's something for a different forum.

[April]

Hello Ladies,

Society often has negative misconceptions about transgendered people. In my humble opinion, shows like Jerry Springer and she-male porn sensationalize and contribute the most to societies negative misconceptions. Many of these misconceptions linger on because the vast majority of transgendred people remain deeply in the closet. Are we not the most qualified people to be doing the educating of the public and clearing up misconceptions? And yet, the majority of us hide in fear and shame doing nothing. I know, I know, yes, but.....

[Tamara Croft]

Ya know some day it's gonna SUCK when they are the freaks and the minority instead of us. Then the tables will be turned, and they will know how it feels to spend your life watching your step.

I can't wait!

Yeah.... and they can have their own damn forum and call it www.non-crossdressers.com

[Tristen Cox]

True

[Julie]

Angel,

You finished what I was thinking.

Imagine a TG politician getting up in front of the cameras chastizing those who persecute, ridicule, denigrate or otherwise keep the negative myth alive. Imagine your priest standing in front of the masses telling them they need to stop hating TGs and instead love and accept them. Imagine the newspapers or local media supporting the TG agenda to rid society of hatred and bigotry.

This seems light years away but it's the kinds of things that have to happen before the pendulum will start to swing in our favor. Everything begins at grass roots levels and grows from there.

But how many are willing to expose themselves for this cause? That's where the problem begins.

[Ayla GG]

Nyx,

Thanks for sharing your insight & perspective. You wrote an interesting & honest observation of our world view/ society. I don't find your observation offensive ( I'm not a CD but my SO is & I'm supportive). I know for a fact that sometimes people just want to share their passing thoughts/ ideas. I always love reading these things because you can always learn something from new perspective, even if I may disagree with certain point of views...I can still respect it. CDing is a sensitive issue & people deffinitely need to understand/ learn what CDing means in order to get over their phobia/ negative feelings.

Perhaps CD rights can start with little steps. CDs who are in touch with themselves & have accepted that CDing is part of their being can open up with the people in their life. You can try to educate them, make them understand what it means to you & what the journey was for you as you grow. If you can't open up or make the beloved people in your life who will give you the benefit of the doubt...people who know you intimately, how do you expect other people who don't know you, readily judge you & have prejudices against you understand. Start the battle small & hopefully that small change will have an impact...it will grow somehow to better understanding & acceptance.

I know...I know I'm not a CD & I may not even know what I'm talking about. But I do know what it feels like to be perceived as a freak...an outcast & I know how important acceptance is, recognition & respect...being loved because you are what you are.

[inherundys]

Just YESTERDAY my boss was talking about how she saw a friend's husband at the beach and noticed his legs were shaved. She said it "made her sick", and then went on to say that everyone suspected he was gay and just never admitted it.

Good lord! What a shallow life she must lead. Made her SICK????

I grew up in a family with a gay cousin. Never made any of us "sick". We just knew "W" was different and accepted it. No one ever spoke ill of him, or made comments behind his back. We all loved to be around him and his friends. I always looked foward to family functions that included him, because a good time was had by all, every time.

[racquel]

Ayla says"Perhaps CD rights can start with little steps. CDs who are in touch with themselves & have accepted that CDing is part of their being can open up with the people in their life. You can try to educate them, make them understand what it means to you & what the journey was for you as you grow. If you can't open up or make the beloved people in your life who will give you the benefit of the doubt...people who know you intimately, how do you expect other people who don't know you, readily judge you & have prejudices against you understand. Start the battle small & hopefully that small change will have an impact...it will grow somehow to better understanding & acceptance"
Very well put and so true.Treat this issue like charity.
Start at home.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Its really quite simple, IMHO, why CDs have a "Negative" image with much of the public.

So many of the public have crazy , stupid and ignorant ideas of what they think HOMOSEXUALS (gays) are, and of course they Think CDs are "homosexuals", so they share the same stupid ideas about CDs as they do gays. Simple enough.

[Sharon]

Its really quite simple, IMHO, why CDs have a "Negative" image with much of the public.

So many of the public have crazy , stupid and ignorant ideas of what they think HOMOSEXUALS (gays) are, and of course they Think CDs are "homosexuals", so they share the same stupid ideas about CDs as they do gays. Simple enough.

Well, now that this is cleared up, I guess this thread has pretty much reached its conclusion.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Besides all the reasons already mentioned, here's a couple more reasons.

In America culture (can't speak for others) manhood is often defined less by what you are, but rather what you aren't: not female, not gay. Especially during the past 30 years when gender roles have been changing so rapidly. As Joe Jackson once asked in a song:

What’s a man now - what’s a man mean
Is he rough or is he rugged
Is he cultural and clean

When we were boys we'd taunt other about being homosexual long before we knew what that was. What we really meant was another boy wasn't being boyish enough. Likewise, we'd tease them about being girlie-men.

So CDs face a double dose of prejudice. First we must be "unmanly" for wanting to put on a dress. Second, since the only image most of the public has of men in dresses are drag queens (or ******* porn), they assume we must be gay.

I ran across an interesting study on attitudes toward CDs done on the usual college sophomores at a Midwest universary, tracking attitudes before and after seeing some speaking from Tri-Ess. Surprisingly, it was the male students who showed the greatest change towards acceptance, much more than the women (although overall the women were still more accepting). From the students' comments, apparently once the male students were convinced the two speakers were hetro and otherwise good family guys, they decided CDing was a bit odd, but not really different than other sorts of hobbies.

Another factor is a number of people (both male and female) have fairly rigid ideas about what's the "right" and "wrong" to behave, both in terms of sexual morality and gender roles. CDing bends those rules in ways they find disturbing. Similar to the way gays disturb them. In a way, we're like bisexuals (who face prejudice from both straights and gays) because our existance implies that roles can be a bit blurrier than people would like to think. Plus since we can move between roles there's a bit of the "enemy within" paranoia. We literally can be the person next door.

[Jen_TGCD]

...because our existance implies that roles can be a bit blurrier than people would like to think.

This makes the most sense to me. Most people can only think of gender in terms of "opposites"... boy/girl; male/female; masculine/feminine. To consider that there is anything "in between" is uncomfortable and confusing.

I have to admit that I am still a bit self-conscious around effeminate men. I am always gracious but my mind somehow conflicts with the male I'm looking at and the feminine actions being projected. Now, if this same person is dressed like a female... my mind says that all is well! I'm used to seeing and being around CDs but have less contact with effeminate males.

So, that "conflict" may be what makes the general public ill at ease. When there is conflict within someone, they either... ignore it (pretend it doesn't exist) -or- they get angry.

Also... for those that would like to know more about Gender Activisim, either go to Google (or another search engine) and type in Transgender Activist or Gender Activist and you will find a lot to explore on what has already been done to make gender expression a legal right, as well as, promoting public awareness. And, do not ignore the GLBT or GLBTIQ sites. Yes, they are Gay and Lesbian but they are also legislating for Transgender and Gender Rights. Some quick links are:

GenderPAC - The national organization working to ensure every American's right to express their gender free from stereotypes, discrimination, and violence.
www.gpac.org

National Transgender Advocacy Coalition - The nation's preeminent Transgender civil rights organization
www.ntac.org

Transgender Crossroads - News and Views From the Midwest
www.tgcrossroads.org

GenderTalk
www.gendertalk.com
This is the website of GenderTalk radio, as well as a transgender activism resource and information archive maintained by Nancy Nangeroni. GenderTalk is the leading worldwide weekly radio program that talks about transgenderism in the first person. Each week we present news, information, and exciting new voices that challenge our traditional view of gender -- and more.

[Rachael Warren]

Having read through all of the posts in this excellent thread, I felt that maybe this would be worthy of thought.

In genealogy it is said that after ten generations, everyone is, in someway, related to everyone else.



If this is the case then If we all come out to our closest family members, and continue to be loving and caring people towards them, attitudes will gradually change. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but change will come about.



I sincerely hope that my children don't see me as some sexual deviant, and trust that their attitude to others like me that they may encounter in life will be the same.



From what I have read, we represent anything from between 1 in 10 and 1 in 1000 of the male population, if you think about it, that is even at the highest estimate, a large number of people, worldwide, so in just a couple of generations acceptance could begin to emerge. Remaining completely in the closet doesn't help our plight!



Isn't this what has happened for the Gay community over the last several decades? Society is slowly becoming far more tolerant of this minority, true the AID's issue helped to publicise and accelerate this change, but a few brave individuals started that ball rolling decades ago.



People are fearful of what they don't know or understand. If someone has never met a Gay person, the may adopt a stereotypical image of one, If they have known one first hand from friendship or family, they will see the person, not the "problem".



I, for one, don't need acceptance from society, I have what I need already, acceptance from my family!, acceptance from society would be a bonus.



I have done my little bit for the cause, now it's up to you..........



Just my 0.02 worth.



Lots of love, Rachael.

[size=3][/size]

[Wendy me]

You know I have to drop my two cents in here. And I stick by this. WE know why we get a negative image, but I feel the public should be the ones that review these things more indepth. Preaching to each other doesn't do much to educate 'them', since most of us know all these things. We're not the ones being intolerant and looking at ourselves as a negative bread of human being, they are. We see things in their true perspectives. It is our job to educate those that 'close' their eyes to anything that doesn't fit the stereotype image. The public needs to see why it is a negative they see and that there is a positive hidden due to their prejudice against us.

all too true but frist as i have said we need to be out in their eyes dressed or not but rather being that person or persons that get involved that speake up , you know we all know the people that speake and it commands the proples around them to listen ...be positive be forward and speake louldy let your voice and actions ...not go unnoticed ... that someone or someones are people that stand out not saying hay i cd but rather thay stand out because thay are possitive , thay are full of life ... thay breathe in life and it can be seen and felt by those around them ....talking to the people here to convence them is a waste of time ...think abought it we all want for people to understand us ...who hopes that thay won't ???? so were we neen to go is out to the veary people and show that we are people that are to be listened to then through that we can spread our message ....till your seen as someone that their voice matters on what ever issue then no one will hear you .....get out and talk to people anyone ....everyone...i talk to everyone i see mostly chitt chatt be talk and be heard ....rember no one will listen to you if you don't talk to them ................

[MarinaTwelve200]

Besides all the reasons already mentioned, here's a couple more reasons.

In America culture (can't speak for others) manhood is often defined less by what you are, but rather what you aren't: not female, not gay. Especially during the past 30 years when gender roles have been changing so rapidly. As Joe Jackson once asked in a song:

What’s a man now - what’s a man mean
Is he rough or is he rugged
Is he cultural and clean

When we were boys we'd taunt other about being homosexual long before we knew what that was. What we really meant was another boy wasn't being boyish enough. Likewise, we'd tease them about being girlie-men.

Seriously though, Therin lies the problem, at least in MY opinion.---many, if not most people STILL think homosexuality means the above--They didnt know what it was when they were kids and they STILL dont know as adults. They never got their facts straight.

Even the "defining quality" of homosexuality, guys having sex with other guys, which they may be aware of now, is often thought of as just another ancilliary aspect of gay guys only added to the list. The comments like "throw the kid a football", "Send him to military school"--or actions like cancelling crossdress day at highschool because "it promotes homosexuality" prove my point.--people who hold these opionions think "gay"is a locally defined "manhood" issue--a carry over from childhood.

To THEM a CDer IS GAY---and has all the negative aspects of their ideas about homosexuality, froma 'disgusting lack of "manhood" to a propensity to sexually abuse children projected upon them.


Often I attack this problem on a case by case basis. When I hear a friend, relative or aquaintance taunt a another person or talk about a person being "gay" in a mistaken or derisive way, I usually play dumb and flat out ask them "How is THAT (whatever they said) gay? " I'll listen to their nonsense and follow up with another question, "Do you even KNOW what "gay" means?" ---Then I'll give them the textbook definition, and shake my head in a frendly , but condescending manner and comment under my breath "I wonder where U got that idea?"

My hope is to embarrass them with the fact that they are not all THAt "sexually knolwledgable" after all, and suggest that they may have been publicly making a fool of themselves in this respect by such comments over the years----A realization that might "shock " them into hitting the books to get their facts straight. Hey this actually WORKS ---sometimes, but only for one person at a time.

[susiej]

Ladies, I think that fear is a major factor in "straight america's" attitude toward us.

In particular, "Joe Sixpack" out there, a regular, "normal", conservative kind of guy, has a hard time coming to grips with the very possibility that the girl he meets at a bar might turn out to be a transvestite. This is really compelling. Gwen Araujo was murdered for this (google her name if you've not heard of her).

The very possibility that Joe will find himself attracted to another man scares the out of him. In order to eliminate the possibility, Joe wants to be guaranteed that everybody who looks feminine on the outside, is a GG on the inside, "the way God intended".

Joe Sixpack's sexual insecurity and fear -- his problems -- manifest as oppressive and derisive attitudes toward tv's -- our problem. To solve our problem, we have to solve his, by allaying his fears. No doubt this is a tall order, and I don't have a clue how to begin in our case, but there's hope: the gay community is doing it. 30 years ago, many in "straight america" still believed that gays wanted to "recruit" our children -- now we have "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" on television.

Hugs,
Susie

[Nyx]

30 years ago, many in "straight america" still believed that gays wanted to "recruit" our children

This is a bit out of topic, but unfortunately some do. I have had a certain amount of pressure from gays and bisexuals myself... Even though I'm not in contact with them that much, and now there is an increasingly popular idea that people should just try every sexual thing they can. And you see people encouraging straight kids to "experiment" gay sex. I also find alot of gays are trying to simply confuse heterosexuals with some forms of propaganda. Spreading ideas such that people who don't like gays must be gay themselves in order to keep them silent.

Personally, if *we*, as crossdressers, want to make a difference, I say the first step is around us. I have already told many of my close friends about this. Most of them accepted it without problems. They know I'm not a weirdo. And if their reaction had been to run away from me, then screw them, they weren't real friends. Girls generally accept this especially well, for the most part. What I am saying is, the best way to maker a difference is to tell your friends. You don't have to dress in front of them, you don't have to show them pictures, but you can make a difference just by making people understand that crossdresser does not mean perverted gay drag queen ******* murderer freak, basically.

[Helana]

Marina

You make an excellent point, it does not matter to joe average whether we are attracted to men or not, the fact that we have choosen to reject machoness and delight in everything feminine immediately makes us homosexuals.

Nor does it matter if we can convince them that we are in fact hetrosexual, in many ways that just makes us even worse. At least if you are gay you have an excuse for acting feminine, while we have no "legitimate" excuse at all.

We cannot win against ignorance. The ignorant have no desire to be educated as they already believe they know the "natural" order of things.

Getting rid of this attitude is nearly impossible. The initiation of boys into the macho role of manhood is so pervasive everywhere in all cultures that no matter how much educational material you put out, there will always be strong opposition from the intolerant which unfortunately seems to be focused around religious viewpoints. In our case it will not be sufficient to make the public aware of us, awareness will not overcome belief based intolerance.

[Sweet Jeanette]

Whatever the reason(s) the public views crossdressing negatively, the fact remains they aren't going to change their views soon unless we do something to help them understand. Add to that the fact this is still listed as a disorder and we have a serious uphill battle.

We need leaders who aren't afraid to show their faces in public and I just don't see that happening. The measures one takes to keep their crossdressing a secret is testament to that. How can crossdressing ever gain acceptance when virtually every one of us lives in fear of discovery? If you're afraid of being found out, then you must be doing something wrong. Therefore, if you think it's wrong, so will everyone else. Actions speak louder than words and our actions say we are ashamed of being crossdressers.

The general public will never change their attitudes until we do first.

I personally think, that the general public will NEVER change their attitude anyway! ------It will just go on and on and on!

[katrinafltg]

well, regardless of the general public's attitude the fact of the matter is that we live in America and we have a great deal of personal freedom here. Its not illegal to crossdress. If you want to go out in public, its your right. Some tg's do this and they don't care one fig about what the crowd thinks.

I don't really care about the feelings of the "general public." I find them to be boring and banal. I've always gravitated to the fringe elements of society for stimulus and conversation. I am not a complete misanthrope. I live in the city and I like being surrounded by human beings.

I do not dress and go out among the general public. Why bother? They wouldn't appreciate it and I don't need the negative attention. There are plenty of places for tg's to socialize and mingle, both commercial and private. Most people end up choosing only a few places to socialize anyway so what's the difference?

Employment can be a sticky issue but if you are a college graduate and a successful worker and you live in an urban area you're probably not going to be affected by your crossdressing even if it is known. As long as you don't throw it in people's faces. People can be surprisingly tolerant when you keep your eccentricities out of the work place. Society is very permissive these days. People are doing all kinds of wild things right now and as a result many are tolerant of other people's desires and interests.

Of course the rednecks and the lower classes are hostile to tg's, gays, etc. Who cares? I don't socialize with those people. I have no desire to dress up and go to some country bar. I would turn on a lot of those guys which would make them angry and the women would be pissed because they could sense someone was intruding on their territory.

Which is understandable. I've worked with people of low education and intellect. Since the men don't have much of an interest in the intellectual life their women must rely almost purely on their sexuality to draw and maintain interest. The last thing they want is a tg competitor especially if she looks good. its probably a galling reminder of the weakness of their position.

One good thing about being tg is that it is a great motivator to succeed in life. Succesful people are the most tolerant. They have what they want and they are happy. They don't want to spoil their happiness by wasting energy on hating people who are having no effect on their own happiness.

there will always be some negative jerk but this is unavoidable and life is not perfect. You are not going to get along with everyone. some people will dislike you no matter how "normal" you are. Fine. As long as they keep their manners.

We live in a sort of demimonde which is fine with me. I like it. Its like being part of a secret society. I have no desire to be "accepted" by society at large because, again, I consider society at large to uninteresting.

Remember that we have come a long way. It is not illegal to crossdress. Not to long ago walking around in a dress would have landed you in a jail cell. There are laws in place to protect us from hate crimes as well as violence in general. If you get beat up because you wore a dress to a motorcycle rally, that' s your fault.

Don't fret because we "should" be able to dress whenever and wherever we please. Its like those girls who whine because they feel they "should" be able to jog at any time of day or night in any part of town they please. You have to deal with reality.

I think what's important is that tg's learn to be comfortable with themselves at an early age. I don't think its important to be "open" with your parents. If they can handle it, great! If not, who cares? I'm an adult and I don't need my parents approval to live my life.

Its especially important to be open with women in a serious relationship. its not fair to you or her to keep secrets.

I dont' tell every friend or acquaintance I have. A few know and the rest I prefer to keep in the dark. Its something beyond them and what's worse than experiencing revulsion is attracting the interest of people you want nothing to do with. You'd be amazed at how many guys will come on to you if you let them know you're a tg. People are bored and tg's are something novel and exciting.

Be happy with yourself. Its the most important thing.

I know I sound like an arrogant bitch but I don't have time for small minded block heads. I can be the sweetest person in the world but do not unload your personal bullcrap on me. My natural mindstate is one of happiness and I get very peeved when someone tries to get me to join them in their misery.

I believe in Love

[maryjanecapri]

just do a search for crossdressing, transvestite, transgender, etc on google.com and see what you come up with. the majority of sites you'll see are about "trannys" or "chicks with d***s". it's all porn.

also - remember that much of society grew up with Flip Wilson, and Benny Hill who made it the norm to laugh at "men in dresses". so i think a lot of society thinks it's funny. sometimes it is. sometimes it isn't.

but i think the biggest problem (as many have hit upon) is perception. most perceive CDs and TGs as perverts and sexual deviants. and the only way around that is to show them they are wrong.

and remember - the vast majority of society thought gay people were nothing more than perverts a decade or so ago. so it's only a matter of time and acclimation.

i think.