Does CDing distort our sense of femininity?

[SusieK]

Part of the goal of what we do for many of us is to achieve in ourselves a glimpse of feminine beauty. As genetic males we fall short of this and have to play tricks on ourselves to maintain the illusion. Glancing down at stockinged legs in heels, careful poses in the mirror to accentuate hips and butt, the use of pads, forms, corsets and the like. Without any context we can get away with the fact that some of us are over 6' tall. We post pictures and enjoy looking at the posts of others.

I've also seen posts along the lines of CDers thinking they look better than GGs (and the reality check replies of "Get real girl!" to wake people up from their delusion).

There's no doubt that some of us pass, and some look beautiful. It's also clear that some of us don't pass, and that's OK, I don't have a problem with that. I'm all for the be yourself and do what feels good and right attitude that is so common on this forum.

What I want to think about at the moment, is does this constant focus and obsession on perceiving ourselves as feminine change what we think femininity is?

Is it possible that we don't get as close as we think to passing, but rather that over time our standards and perception change so that what we present becomes our definition of femininity?

[Sarah Doepner]

I hope I can manage to keep my sense of what femininity is (or might be) seperate from my attempts to create a feminine image around myself. The creation of the image is a step in the direction toward better understanding if and how increased femininity can improve my life. No doubt that when wandering through a thick pink fog it is difficult to tell the difference, but I think it's worth the effort to keep the two concepts on their own sides of the fence.
If I do things right, I could begin to understand femininity without ever having to wear women's clothing, makeup, padding, wigs etc. However, when I dress, it seems the door between where I actually am and what I'm striving for is just a little more open. And maybe I'm on a fools errand, but at least I smile while I'm traveling.

[Kathi Lake]

Susie,

I don't think my view of what femininity is has changed. If anything, it has solidified. The way women look, act and feel is my touchstone for how I look, act and feel as I try to emulate them as closely as possible. My pathetic attempts and the degree in which I miss that mark only serve to keep that target in focus. As Sarah said, maybe I'm foolish to try - looking as I do when dressed - but it sure is fun to try!

Kathi

[MarcieBflo]

[SIZE="3"]First off I would like to make it clear that I know I'm not passable, and agree most of us don't. I don't think my CDing has changed my view of true GG femininity. It may even have made me appreciate and respect it even more. One thing I can say, I could not believe how much guys "gawk" at women. From a distance, when driving "dressed" or walking with a short skirt on, I get the horn beeps, the "hey babe" etc. remarks. And yes I was one of them at one time.

Marcie[/SIZE]

[Lover girl]

Feeling feminin is a state of ones mind. Although femininity can be more like a feminin look. I think they are not quite the same. When I dress up in some nice threads along with other femme accessery's makes me feel feminin but the reality is that I'm not very feminin looking with the male atributs getting in the way. On the other hand when you see someone that looks totaly femme it's all about the look. G.M. or G.G. can somewhat merge at times. I've seen CD's that have the body and the featchers that have been polished and refined to look totaly G.G. That can be the look of femininity but the feeling of femininity can be quite different. That's my answer if I understand the question.

[Wen4cd]

I think the whole point driving what most of us do is to "change what we think femininity is."

We start out with our images and ideas of femininity mostly based in stereotype and symbolry, (which is actually the true 'distortion') and we gradually develop to find new and deeper meanings which are truer to the concept, and transcend both sexes and genders.

[docrobbysherry]

LOOKING fem for an instant, (or in a pic), and PASSING, are ENTIRELY different issues!

I can DEFINITELY appear to be an attractive female in some of my pics. In my videos, I look like drunken cow moving around!

And, I would say, after going to the SCC last year, MOST CDs looked similar, if not QUITE as bad!

[sherri52]

I am 6' and like 5" heels even with lower ones I'm 6'3". I do not pass at least in my eyes but I would like to think that I have a grip on femininity. Only the GG's that know me could say for sure.

[Debb]

Part of the goal of what we do for many of us is to achieve in ourselves a glimpse of feminine beauty. As genetic males we fall short of this and have to play tricks on ourselves to maintain the illusion. Glancing down at stockinged legs in heels, careful poses in the mirror to accentuate hips and butt, the use of pads, forms, corsets and the like. Without any context we can get away with the fact that some of us are over 6' tall. We post pictures and enjoy looking at the posts of others.

I've also seen posts along the lines of CDers thinking they look better than GGs (and the reality check replies of "Get real girl!" to wake people up from their delusion).

There's no doubt that some of us pass, and some look beautiful. It's also clear that some of us don't pass, and that's OK, I don't have a problem with that. I'm all for the be yourself and do what feels good and right attitude that is so common on this forum.

What I want to think about at the moment, is does this constant focus and obsession on perceiving ourselves as feminine change what we think femininity is?

Is it possible that we don't get as close as we think to passing, but rather that over time our standards and perception change so that what we present becomes our definition of femininity?

Well, I haven't adjusted my standards or perception; I have definitely realized that I don't know anything about femininity. Women are the "all" to me; I'm not actually convinced there IS such a thing as femininity, at least not as I perceived it, at least not in ME.

I do like to feel pretty, though.

I don't know what it means, but it feels like I'm close to some kind of a break-through; something like, "people are just people, get over the whole male/female thing".

Then again, I may be totally talking out of my backside (and not in a good way!).

[Angiemead12]

I dont think it has distorted my sense of femininity in fact I have managed to influence my SO to become more feminine. I have a good comparison of what it feels like to be man and woman and that its really a world apart.

i dont care anymore about passing, i dont mind being the man in a dress because I just want to express myself.

Also most fashion designers are gay, so how we perceive femininity is already from a mans point of view.

[Crissy Kay]

Rather interesting topic and insight too Susie. This may very well apply to me, as I find myself more interested in looking at pics of nice looking or pretty cds, rather then ggs.

[Stacye Rose]

I don't see a way that the constant focus on all things "feminine" can help but distort our view on what femininity is. After all the whole etiology of "crossdressing' is based on a distorted image of women. I think it's probable that we focus far to much on the trappings of what it is to be feminine and miss a large part of the reallity. It's a forest and trees thing.

I think this will probably be a eather unpopular opinion with most of you, however please keep in mind that it is merely my opinion offered as an answer to the question posed by the poster. i.e. mynothing more

[Annaliese2010]

...does this constant focus and obsession on perceiving ourselves as feminine change what we think femininity is? Is it possible that...we...become our definition of femininity?

I think it depends on just how much you're into yourself or how much you get out. One can believe anything one wants to believe and who is anyone else to challenge or criticize, or say you're wrong. Everyone's free to set their own standards. There's no global consensus - no universal aesthetic. It comes down to whatever does it for you. As the saying goes, Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. On the other hand it's also been said, the most powerful force on earth resides between the thighs of a woman. I've been around - seen a lot of beautiful TG's. But I aint never felt anything come close to the wide-eye appeal of an xy-bonafide babe. 'Cept maybe me, that is.

[jasmine57]

I've always thought that the true messure of femininty has nothing to do with the way a woman looks but the way she acts and how she portays herself. I know that I could never achieve what a true woman does but I try and emulate what she does a nd acts like to show my admiration for what she has achieved. I could never expect not do I ever intend to achieve the femininty that a woman can. All I can ever hope to do is emulate it as best I can and show as much respect to all women as possible.

[Madilyn A.]

[SIZE="3"]Interesting question. I know this, I am more aware of feminine feelings in myself and others. I have more nurturing as I move closer towards my inner self. I probably do have a somewhat distorted view of feminine behaviors and looks. To me, I formed my ideas of the differences between the genders in the 1950's. Women dressed more feminine, men dressed more like they do today, then women. So, I try to emulate the look of yesteryear, so if that's distorted, so be it.........[/SIZE]

[Wen4cd]

There's a lot of different meaning to 'feminine.' Here's three of 'em I felt myself go through in life at various states, sometimes intertwining.. I gave them cute names too.

1. 'Stereotype' feminine - we're talking about surface-level things, 'girly' things that initially associate with the rough image of 'girl' - clothes, 'feminine' walks, girly speaking, tittering, giggling, girlish poise, vanity. "Bugs Bunny in drag" stuff fits here. What the CD may start out defining 'feminine' as. Often 'em femme,' as it is used here, mostly means "en-stereotype-femme", which sounds 'wrong,' but it is natural, and can lead to further along things down the road. Part of development through life is about shrugging off stereptypes one learns in earlier times.

2. 'Personal' feminine - your natural traits that you repressed through life because they were addressed as 'feminine' but are really not supposed to be genderized at all - empathy, compassion, caring, nurturing (maternal or paternal), emotional freedom of expression, ability to relate on depth levels and sensitivity more forms of nonverbal communication, less vain aesthetics, beauty, moving towards a meaningful relationship with spiritual things, etc...

This is usually a good balance to strive for, and bringing this stuff up to consciousness is usually called 'growth' and leads to things like "wholeness" and "wellness."

3. 'Energy' feminine: This is 'yin' feminine, 'unconscious' feminine, which is oddly often 'filled' or quelled by integrating things like crossdressing, and the 'personal feminine' attributes that it reconnects one to. Words used to describe this would be like: void, hungry, absorbing, vacuous nonentity, moody, emptiness, vaccuum, darkness, that which is filled form without. A feminine archetype like this is like a doll that is lifeless and inert unless it has a key inserted and wound. It is a golemesque "needing of purpose."

Yin feminine, even moreso than personal feminine, has nothing really to do with sex or gender, and it is found in males and females alike, and in the rest of everythign else.. It's part of and energy balance between poles, like the negative terminal on a battery.

[Miranda09]

My definition of femininity has actually been reinforced as a direct reult of my CDing activities. I have come to understand, to a much greater degree than ever before, what it means to be a woman...well as least as close as I'll ever get to experience. It makes me appreciate them even more. While it is true that some can pull off the look so completely as to fool even some GG's, there's no way we can ever truly experience what femininity means. So, no, my definition of femininty has not been distorted as a result of my attempts to present an illusion, and the feeling, of a femme self.

[Naomi Rayne]

I think femininity is more about a society standard. The word female is used to describe a gender of a person. The word femininity derives from that. So in actuality no matter how a female acts or presents herself is she indeed not feminine and have femininity based on her gender. So really femininity is whatever you want it to be.

[Frédérique]

What I want to think about at the moment, is does this constant focus and obsession on perceiving ourselves as feminine change what we think femininity is?
Is it possible that we don't get as close as we think to passing, but rather that over time our standards and perception change so that what we present becomes our definition of femininity?

[SIZE="2"]You learn to do what you can with what you have. I just do things to please me, and I’m getting easier to please as time goes on. My definition of femininity is fixed, and it exerts a gravitational pull on my psyche no matter how distant my unconnected self gets. Much like the Earth needs the Moon (according to the demands for life), I need femininity to keep me centered, on course, and stabile in my particular “orbit.” Of course, just like the full Moon shines on a cloudless night, femininity shines a light on my soul – I need it to see where I’m standing, and where I want to go…[/SIZE]

[noeleena]

Hi.
Do i look at this with the eyes of a male , or a female. or as a woman,

What i see is a male who is trying to take on the appearance of a female , & some as suggested , look just so beutifull & pass with ease & grace ,

Some dont have that grace & wont pass or even have a hope of doing so . they of cause live or can in a fantisy of delusion in thinking they can . the real world of living is far different. & when they come back to reality its them as a male bob mode, yet while it lasts its fun,till the next time.

Those who have the body shape & looks with all the trimings do pass & for them its a all out you are just so femm & many people would not even know you were a male & some of cause go on further & do live in the real world of life , to them what was fun has become a part of thier life .

Others, stay hidden & never show thier face in public yet the clothes become a part of thier lifes & like many others get stressed out when they cant dress,

What i see as a male is many males as males & who dress on femm yet i dont relate to them .
As a woman i wonder why they do it to take on .. the look ..to wear my clothes , what has been made for me . (( for all women )) of cause i understand iv had 12 years of finding out ,
yet for some i do find it strange , because they are not wired as a woman , female , in fact there is abssolutely nothing about them that says female or woman . yet they have if you like a hobby & its females clothes.
Of cause i dont have a problem with what they or you wear.

I do think / know that there is a false blind view of what female s are or should be , in males eyes some that is persception of what they should look like & allso a sexual side to this as well.

I do have a good idear of how a male thinks I just dont have the full capacity to think as a male fully, hence the reason i think as a woman,& see things as a woman does .

i know ill never pass as a woman & nore do i try to because i accepted who i am & how i look , yet that does not stop me from being a woman wired that way as well. so my thinking reflects that , how i do things & the reasons why,
the clothes are important as that reflects who i am as well.

I admire you all who do dress & those of you who stay hidden , & those of you who have the guts to go out & if you like take on the world , hey i know i cant compeat, im not , a girl e girl .

oh well , so what ,
im just a woman whos been accepted & i am who i am & as i live as a woman I do have some things going for me .

...noeleena...

[Kate Simmons]

Oh we can look pretty all right but most of us don't really have a clue as to what true womanhood is about. That's what really separates the GG's from the GM's.

[Tina B.]

Does CDing distort our sense of femininity?

No, I don't think so. I watched Some like it Hot the other day, and I can still tell the difference between Jack Lemon and Marlyn Monroe.
Tina B.

[Rianna Humble]

What I want to think about at the moment, is does this constant focus and obsession on perceiving ourselves as feminine change what we think femininity is?

Is it possible that we don't get as close as we think to passing, but rather that over time our standards and perception change so that what we present becomes our definition of femininity?

I can understand what you are saying, but hope that it doesn't apply to me. I perceive myself as feminine to the extent that I know I am a woman trapped in a man's body, but I certainly don't think that I will ever be as truly feminine as many GG's that I know. When I am dressed, I am not trying to impress, just to be my real self.

My take on it is not so much "What I present is the reality for me" as "I would rather die an ugly woman than live as a man" (as I told my doctor this morning).

[erika130]

..does this constant focus and obsession on perceiving ourselves as feminine change what we think femininity is?

Is it possible that we don't get as close as we think to passing, but rather that over time our standards and perception change so that what we present becomes our definition of femininity?

I think this is very possible and probably happens to a few of us, at least sometimes. For me, I try to keep reality in check: Girls are girls, & I'm just a cd with some girl qualities. A quick look at them, their behavior, thoughts, experiences, etc, brings my perception of femininity back on track. Looks-wise, I may do an ok job, but it doesn't make me a woman.

[Emily Ann Brown]

Denice has it right...all a dresser can do is be beautiful. The spirit is missing.


Em