The war between the pants and skirts

[Renelle]

I’ve received some interesting responses to a question I posed in the Ask the GG’s section. It’s about the skirts versus pants (trousers, if you’re British) identification. I’d like to open it up to everyone. (Yes, even you Transmasculine guys).

If as Cder’s, we identify skirts and dresses as feminine, then aren’t we by definition, making a moral judgment on what a woman “should” be? If a woman wears pants, is she somehow less feminine? Aren’t we being just as judgmental, and Chauvanistic, as the “civilians” who judge us for what we wear to define ourselves?

In fact, it could be that we are the worst offenders. It seems to me, and I include myself in this, “We have met the enemy, and they is us.“

Thoughts anyone?

[msginaadoll]

Renelle, you definitely have a point there. I had a difficult time wearing pants because I thought it wasn't feminine. That was at least for me. As I get older however I realize that whatever feminity I have comes from inside me. that I can wear pants, skorts, short, kilts, capris, whatever and that does not take away or diminish who I am. I still want to look cute however-but pants work as well as skirts. It is easy sometimes to confuse the clothes on ourselves with what makes a woman or man, etc. As India Arie sings, "I am not my hair...."

[Gerrijerry]

I wear more slacks and Jeans then I do skirts and dresses. I don't think anyone sees me as a male when I wear womans jeans or womans slacks. In fact I have found that I fit in more with what normal woman wear most of the time. YOu should look around at what woman wear and when they wear it.

[Sarah_GG]

If as Cder’s, we identify skirts and dresses as feminine, then aren’t we by definition, making a moral judgment on what a woman “should” be? If a woman wears pants, is she somehow less feminine? Aren’t we being just as judgmental, and Chauvanistic, as the “civilians” who judge us for what we wear to define ourselves?

Excellent point! There are regularly posts that denigrate women for wearing pants, trainers, sweatshirts etc.

[Rianna Humble]

I agree that if we condemn anyone for wearing trousers, then we are doing what we dislike in others.

Trousers are fine in their place - whether that place be on one of my GG friends or colleagues or on the rack. It's just that they don't suit me - when I first came out at work, I agreed a compromise where I would wear jeans and a top but colleagues told me I'd look better in a skirt or a dress and they were right, I do.

For me the watchword is acceptance. I want others to accept me for who I am and I'm willing to accept others for who they are.

If I'm asked for my opinion on a friend's choice of clothing, I always try to find something positive to say about it, although I sometimes add "but I don't think it would suit me".

[joaniecd]

Lets not be judgmental. Pants , slacks, trousers, skirts, they are all clothes. We wear what we want and looks good on us.
Women have for years worn mans clothing and it has been accepted. They wore mans jeans until the mfg's found they could make more money by putting some extra stitching on them and calling them woman's jeans . Then we liked the look and started wearing woman's jeans.
I do like the feel of a nice pant suit, the way the slacks hang . In the summer I do tend to wear more skirt suits. Mfg's are now starting to mfg intersex clothing. Soon we can dress same as our partner or SO. i say Dress in whatever feels good.

[Kate Simmons]

I dunno, what folks wear is a personal preference, gender notwithstanding. It is just clothes after all and they do not change who we are as people or biologically. War? Secret one maybe. Marvel already had that.

[Super Amanda]

It's really a war of crossdressers vs. the idea of femininity, IMO.

Being a little younger, my whole life dresses have basically been out of style for woman's casual fashion.

It seems like the "dress and hose ONLY" types are generally a bit older, most likely remembering women their whole lives wearing dresses and skirts. I think they may have a subconscious aversion to dresses because of that. I mean, in my childhood in the 80's, women were already not wearing dresses so much, except for toddler girls that is, so to me a cute pair of jeans can, and is most times more feminine.

So the REAL "pants vs. skirts" war ended like over 30 years ago, IMO.

[Renelle]

I just have to think that a lot of us here (again, me included) are making the same type of judgment, only opposite, as the rest of the world does.

I've found that underdressing to go outdoors produces a similar effect as wearing skirts and heels indoors. But again, underclothes are just clothes, they're not me. If this is an inner femininity and not just a fetish, wouldn't I (we) be able to feel feminine even in men's clothes? Or, maybe I (we) just need an extra boost.

[Annalise]

Good point here. I so feel more womanly and sexy and girl like in a dress or skirt but also I think for me, it is because I think I look better in a skirt than pants because I have no hind quarters in pants :/

[BRANDYJ]

A moral judgment? NO WAY! I think a woman should be just the way they are in pants, shorts, dresses, skirts, nude or a burlap bag if they prefer. How does my choice or preference in what I wear make a moral judgement in what a woman should be? I don't get your point at all. It is so far fetched. Almost as far fetched as to say a woman in a pretty dress is also making the same moral judgement as to what all women should be.

Sorry, I don't agree with this premise at all. In no way do I feel a woman is less woman simply because she wears pants, jeans or trousers. I never think of what a woman should be based on what she wears. It would be judgmental if I said, that woman looks stupid, ugly wrong or whatever simply because I don't like her in pants.
If, and I do mean "IF"...I felt or said that a woman belongs ONLY in a dress or skirt, then I'd be chauvinistic and judgmental.
I in fact love the look of a good looking woman in pants, jeans, shorts or whatever.
It's easy to see why most of us CD's want to wear skirts an dresses instead of pants of any type. In the first place, it is definitely garments that in most societies are strictly for women. So we want to identify with dresses and skirts as being more feminine because we are trying to feel, look and maybe act like a woman. We can and do wear pants most of the time, so we would not have that special feel of a skirt or dress on our bodies and legs.
this is like saying we put on makeup and are making a moral judgment that all women should wear makeup! Fortunately, there are many women that do not need a bit of makeup to appear feminine. That can't be said for 97+% of us CD's Bluntly, we NEED makeup to appear feminine. most women don't That surely does not suggest we are making a moral judgment or being chauvinistic. It boils down to simple choice in what makes us look and feel feminine. Pants just don't do it for me. I prefer the look and feel of a dress or skirt.

Women are beautiful in anything they wear. They make it look good and right on them.
A man without a wig, makeup and perhaps growing a beard and mustache and maybe even bald, simply would look ugly, stupid, funny, freakish and out of place in a dress or skirt..to most of us. Even us CD's!

So call me judgmental for that last statement about how I feel a man looks in a dress if not trying to look totally female, then you can call me judgmental at least but chauvinistic?

I like to wear makeup, dresses, skirts, bras, slips, hose and heels with absolutely no moral judgement at all as to how a woman should be. Of course society will do that to me. And I accept that and understand it.

[sissystephanie]

As for my self, I wear whatever feminine clothing I feel like wearing. I dress for myself, not for the rest of the world! And I don't think it make much difference to other people anyway! I do wear jeans, ladies ones, Karren! But I probably more likely to wear a skirt or skort. As I said, I wear what I like.

[StaceyJane]

I admit it, I love skirts.

I guess it is because I can wear pants anytime and I do have a pair of womens pants my wife gave me because they were too big for her. To me those are just another pair of pants, nothing special.

Skirt really do help me feel like a woman.

[lilmissjenny]

i feel just as comfortable wearing a skirt as i do a pair of jeans.

[ColbyInTx]

I don't think it's a question of whether pants mean you're not feminine, rather that pants are less feminine to us than skirts or dresses because we, as men, can wear pants every day.

I think a woman can look just as feminine and sexy in the right pants as she can in a dress or skirt. However, I think we CDers do not envision ourselves as feminine in a pair of pants.

[Renelle]

originally posted by BrandiJ

... it is definitely garments that in most societies are strictly for women. So we want to identify with dresses and skirts as being more feminine because we are trying to feel, look and maybe act like a woman.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to point a finger at anyone. I'm thinking out loud about my own motivations and what may or may not be true.

If we say that we identify with women by wearing their clothes, and then turn around and say women should not be defined by what they wear, then aren't we promoting a stereotype? It seems to me that any inner-feminity we claim to have, would be present in either syle of clothes.

[PretzelGirl]

I don't think it's a question of whether pants mean you're not feminine, rather that pants are less feminine to us than skirts or dresses because we, as men, can wear pants every day.

I think a woman can look just as feminine and sexy in the right pants as she can in a dress or skirt. However, I think we CDers do not envision ourselves as feminine in a pair of pants.

I would be careful with the broad brush. There are many of us that can feel plenty "feminine" (whatever you define it as) in a pair of jeans. Just read other posts in this thread where ladies say they wear pants and it feels right. I went to a movie, dinner, and a Tri-Ess meeting with my wife and daughter on Friday while wearing jeans and a nice pink top. I felt plenty "feminine" and had a real nice and relaxing time.

Now, I am not saying that there are many that only want to wear skirts and dresses. But we are all the same in that we are different. Just like snowflakes!

[Kate Lynn]

Personally I prefer womens low rise jeans and skinny jeans over a dress or skirt,even just in the house,I do own a couple skirts and dresses,but usually wear them after a shower.
I don't try to be feminine any more,I just no longer see a point in it at this stage of my life,especially after a person in the crossdresser chat refered to me as a,"YUCK",because of how I prefer to dress.

[Toni_Lynn]

Oh wow! Do I have to throw a curve ball at the whole thing. I have declared that every Sunday from now on will be kilt day for me. In fact, to be quite honest, when I'm in boy mode I quite like wearing my kilt.

So here I am today in Wal*Mart, buying groceries, toothpaste, etc .. in boy mode .. and in my McLaren tartan kilt ... BTW - I now own 3 kilts and am working on number 4. Been out and about at concerts, the theatre, museums, Home Depot, whilst kilted.

Do I feel particularly masculine whilst kilted? No. Do I feel feminine whilst kilted? No. All in all, I still feel like me, the perfect mix of boy and girl.

Has anyone made a snarky remark to me about being kilted. Truthfully in a year of kilt wearing, no. In fact I've had more people than I thought might be interested about what was worn beneath the kilt ... the answer to which is "nothing, its all in working order".

If one is of the stripe that says 'girls can wear anything and no one says anything, but boys can't ...' then I have a) either proven your point, in as much as I'm a girl, albeit a CDer, or b) totally dis-proven it.

Now one might say, if you are going to go through all that, wearing a kilt, just to wear a 'skirt', then why bother, just wear a skirt. To them I say 'pshaw '

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[Michelle-Leigh]

[SIZE="3"]Ain't no kind of clothing gonna make anyone feminine unless they feel and act the part ! It's who, not what you put on ![/SIZE]

[bianca66]

Red opened toe pumps an pink cords or black heels and low cut jeans with a flower on the pocket makes me feel just as femine...Jeans with a low heel going through the mall or shopping tends to blend in better than with high heels/nylons and a skirt.

[Kayla Shadows]

I hear the pants and skirts debate a lot.Like,why crossdress if your wearing pants.I dont think somebody is going to see you in full makeup,heels,a womens top and whatever and say,oh,your wearing pants,your not really crossdressing.I have womens jeans that no "man" would step into even though they are just jeans.Designs,hearts,stones,tight to a nice flare.Some jeans are absolutely flattering and cute.I have nothing against pants.Just "rules".I identify womens clothes as crossdressing.If its made for women,have fun with it.Dont throw yourself in another box just because people that arent you define things as such.

[Joanne f]

I do not think it is quite that simple as Pants/Trousers= masculine and skirts= feminine, as you can get very feminine trousers and masculine looking skirts, it is more in the way something acts accompanied with looks that makes it feminine or masculine than the item it`s self and on top of that you can have a very feminine person wearing something masculine which will still keep that person feminine the same as someone who is very masculine will still look masculine in something feminine.
The movements/looks of the person overrides the given gender of the items being worn.

[bredalee25]

Personally for me it's not the way that a skirt or dress makes me feel when I wear it it's more the fact that pants jeans or slacks are things I can wear as a guy in public skirts and dresses I can't wear in public only in private at home.

I think we as CD's identify with skirts and dresses as being for girly and wear them for that reason. I find myself wearing leggings more now for comfort more then feeling femme

[Cheryl T]

Personally I don't see anything "masculine" about a nice pair of slacks or feminine jeans. I find that many styles of slacks are quite feminine and sexy, especially with a nice pair of heels. I have a personal fondness for Palazzo pants which I feel are quite sexy.
I do agree that some are prejudiced towards skirts and dresses as was evidenced in a conversation with a sister at a Tri-Ess meeting one night. The subject came around to wearing skirts and dresses and such and her comment was ... "isn't that why we do this?", to which I immediately answered No. Another time she stated, "I can wear jeans anytime as a guy, why would I want to wear them as a girl?"

More and more I find myself in a nice pair of jeans or slacks, as most women do these days, unless I am going somewhere "dressy". In those instances I prefer a nice skirt or dress. Around the house it's always jeans as they are more functional for daily activity.

Just my tastes I suppose...