How Important Is Going Out "En Femme"?

[Stephanie]

Although she has generally been accepting and supportive of my crossdressing, my wife and I have been going back and forth on the issue of me going out "en femme." We had a couple of public outings last month (together), once to a mall and the other a quick trip to the store and I ended up really enjoying myself (despite a little first-time nervousness) but my wife apparently didn't enjoy it near as much because she stated that she felt like she couldn't really "be herself" with me and she says that she isn't really sure whether or not she wants to do it again with me. She says that she had hoped that she would feel differently about it and she says that she actually feels bad that she didn't enjoy it as much as she would've liked but that doesn't, of course, change her feelings about it. Although I initially tried to assure her that it was o.k. if we never did it again, I have since realized that I would actually like to do it once in a while, even if it is just by myself, however she has expressed to me that she is also very uncomfortable with me going out by myself as well, mostly because she wants to "participate" in my crossdressing and doesn't want my crossdressing to take any time away from time spent with her and the stepkids (which I understand and respect). Am I making too much of a big deal about going out "en femme?" I feel very conflicted. OTOH I want to be a good husband and respect my wife's feelings about the matter but OTOH I feel frustrated and bored just being stuck in the house (mostly our bedroom-we have kids) ALL THE TIME. I don't know if there is any real solution to the situation other than to just see how the situation plays out and see if my wife's feelings about the situation ever change (without putting any pressure on her) but I was kind of curious how important going out "en femme" is to everybody else here and for those of you who don't go out "en femme" (but want to) how do you enjoy your crossdressing IN SPITE of not being able to go out in public "en femme"?

[Jenny Beth]

I don't get out often but my wife has always been supportive of my desires to step out as a woman. She has been nervous at times and fears for my safety but also she is concerned that we might be recognized. I know that if we were to come across someone we know chances are they'd never recognize me since I'm in "disguise" but for her it's a different story. Another thing is that my wife is not one for shopping in busy places or being in large crowds and I have to take that into account when we go out. What my wife does enjoy is going out to dinner and especially with like minded couples.

Whether or not your wife gets comfortable going out with you is not something you can change. Obviously she cares about your femme side or she wouldn't have gone out in the first place. As with everything about cd'ing it takes time for an SO to be comfortable and we must respect their limits. You have a wonderful wife and you seem to be doing everything right communication wise. If I have any suggestions it's to try to find things she likes to do for an outing, maybe having your nails done, going for dinner or meeting with another couple so she won't feel so alone in this. I hope this works out for both of you.

[JoannaDees]

I went through a safe purge (boxed it up only) because of the frustration of being stuck in my bedroom. When I did unbox (debox?) I decided I had to go out because it just wasn't working staying inside. Going out is nice, but still kind of lonely. The goal is to be just one of the crowd, no big drama. And that's what I get. Left alone. I have gone out with other TG's and it has been mixed. I think I need to try and meet a "special" friend as you already have in your SO. I guess my point is, going out does provide something, it's just not the solution to all issues.

[Jenny Beth]

Ooooooops. I totally missed your question Stephanie. Going out enfemme is important to some degree but it is not THE most important thing. For sure it is as close to being a woman as I'll ever get and the feelings derived from it are wonderful but it is not something I have to do in order to feel good about myself. For me the most important thing is acceptance from my wife, I really don't need much else, outings are just the icing on the cake.

[Emily Ann Brown]

I think I know how your wife feels. I went out once with another CD for lunch as guys. I felt like I was very guarded not wanting to speak of things that might be overheard. I think of this person as a lady, and I was trying not to let the cat out of the bag so to speak. Wasn't as good as if we would have been out dressed at lunch.

Your wife wasn't relaxed when out with you. Maybe it will improve with more outings maybe it won't. Maybe you need to find another couple that you can go to their home and socialize...some kind of setting where she can say or do "wrong" things and there's no harm done.


Emily Ann

[kathy gg]

Hi Stephanie,

I am sure you will get answers from other cd's but as an SO, I had to give some thought to this post.

Regardless of what 'other' people do, you have to do what works for you and your marriage.

I don't know if there is any female freinds or cd freinds you have, or if your wife would still consider even an outinng like that once a month or maybe every few months too much time away...but I actually have gone for fun shopping days with a cd friend of ours whose wife hates shopping/browsing. The husband is pretty passable and mostly I think he is passing with flying colors, and we always go to the city to do this. We usually start out around lunch time, get pedicures, browse some malls, end up having dinner out and if time permits hit a club. I only do this once a year with this friend as I have a family of my own and my own hubby is a cd and I dont' want to take too much time away from him either. But I do enjoy this outing with my friend and I know it means alot to him as well. His wife knows he is in safe company and she knows she can trust me as well. it works out for everyone involved.

So this might be something to bring up to yoru wife. I mean if you don't have alot of sport activites taht take you away from home much and this is your primary source of enjoyment hopefully she can view the need to 'get out' like any woman would a sport/hobby her hubby plays or participates in. Maybe just once a month or some amount of time that maybe she can do things she likes to do without you. Does she have any hobbies which you do not care to participate in? Maybe you both can benefit from that time spent apart without viewing it as a 'negative'.

I don't think it is unreasonable, but I think you need to change the way you are presenting your case to her. Now if she is the type of woman that has no hobbies and no activities and you have never partaken in anything (other than work) that gets you away from the house you are going to have a battle on your hands. I would then think really hard about if picking this battle is really worth the freedom you have to express yourself in private. In other words, if you have something that is pretty good (dressing in yoru bedroom) is loosing her aceptance with that worth it?

I think it is very comendable that she wants to be a part of your dressing. That shows much love for your needs. But her participation is not making her happy and I can understand that. I enjoy going out with my hubby dressed, but hate that there is only one little part of the city we can hold hands in. That does not mean I don't enjoy being out with him, just that I have to actually concentate on not showing affection, and that is hard for me being all touchy feely like I am. Also, our outings are in the city where I dont' have to worry about someone we know from our regular life seeing us. If you are going shopping close to where you live she is probably thinking about that fear too. That also causes stress and bad feelings. And lastly, is she a drinker? I find a nice big glass of wine while out shopping just setteling those butterflies and makes the day alot less worrysome.

Well good luck and I hope you can both figure out a way to get your needs met.

most sincerely
kathy in canada

Although she has generally been accepting and supportive of my crossdressing, my wife and I have been going back and forth on the issue of me going out "en femme." We had a couple of public outings last month (together), once to a mall and the other a quick trip to the store and I ended up really enjoying myself (despite a little first-time nervousness) but my wife apparently didn't enjoy it near as much because she stated that she felt like she couldn't really "be herself" with me and she says that she isn't really sure whether or not she wants to do it again with me. She says that she had hoped that she would feel differently about it and she says that she actually feels bad that she didn't enjoy it as much as she would've liked but that doesn't, of course, change her feelings about it. Although I initially tried to assure her that it was o.k. if we never did it again, I have since realized that I would actually like to do it once in a while, even if it is just by myself, however she has expressed to me that she is also very uncomfortable with me going out by myself as well, mostly because she wants to "participate" in my crossdressing and doesn't want my crossdressing to take any time away from time spent with her and the stepkids (which I understand and respect). Am I making too much of a big deal about going out "en femme?" I feel very conflicted. OTOH I want to be a good husband and respect my wife's feelings about the matter but OTOH I feel frustrated and bored just being stuck in the house (mostly our bedroom-we have kids) ALL THE TIME. I don't know if there is any real solution to the situation other than to just see how the situation plays out and see if my wife's feelings about the situation ever change (without putting any pressure on her) but I was kind of curious how important going out "en femme" is to everybody else here and for those of you who don't go out "en femme" (but want to) how do you enjoy your crossdressing IN SPITE of not being able to go out in public "en femme"?

[Ariel]

I have yet to go out totally dressed en femme. As much as I would like to, I am just not at that point yet. One day, maybe (I may even get my wife to come with, but not sure). I do however, get plenty of satisfaction dressing and staying in on the occaisions that I can dress (which seems to be less and less right now because I have kids, also). So I guess the answer to the question is that going out isn't that important to me.

Hope you get this worked out between the two of you.

Hugs and best wishes,
Ariel

[Rachel Morley]

In the past, going out en femme has been somewhat of a desire of mine but not one that was such a draw that I "needed" it. Mostly because of the fear involved I guess. I always used to say to myself, as long as it happens once or twice before I die then that will be good enough for me.

Now that I have started to go out with my wife Marla, I'm finding I really enjoy it (once I get over my initial nervousness). So your question, is it important? Well, it's not so important that if it wasn't there I would be unhappy, but I am glad that it is there.

You see, my wife participates in so many aspects of my crossdressing i.e. making me up, playing schoolgirl dress up games, enjoying seeing me flit around the house in a short skirt and heels, that going out en femme is just yet another cding activity that we do together. Admitidly, it is the icing on the cake, and being able to blend into everyday life and seemingly be perceived as a woman by the general public (at least from a distance anyway) is a great thing. I know if Marla said she didn't want to do it anymore I think I would miss it a little and perhaps I might even want to go out on my own once in a while. But for the most part, my enjoyment of my dressing is amplified by Marla's participation so why would I want to go out on my own when I can stay at home and play dress up with her?

Yes, it's nice to have....but it's not so important that I have to have it. I think Kathy's advice was excellent and well worth trying. Good luck.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

To me getting out is fairly important, for the reasons you mentioned.

I agree that if your wife discovered she isn't comfortable with it that's a feeling that only she can change. It might be worth discussing why she was uncomfortable, so that both of you can understand why. I'm willing to bet she was going through the same sorts of anxieties we go through during our first outings. Will people read her SO? If so, will they make fun of her for being with a CD? Etc. It might be something with a little more public time, she'll start to relax, just as we end up relaxing about getting read.

BTW, I don't know where you went out, but if it was nearby where you live, she may have a justifiable fear of being recognized, which could be eased by doing your outings further away.

But ultimately, if she's not comfortable with joining you for public outing, I agree that it makes sense to treat it like any other hobby/personal time that you can each have to yourselves. Some couples feel like they have to be together whenever they're not at work, but to me it seems like couples have better relationships where each has some time and interests to call their own. Your mileage may vary...

Good luck in trying to find a workable solution.

[kristi cd]

I guess I'm the odd one out here.....again. I don't know if it's because I'm still (relatively) young and naive or what, but getting out and passing in normal, everyday situations is my ultimate goal. It's not something that I really "need" nor is it something that would be completely demoralizing for me if it never happens, but it is soemthing that I really look forward to *hopefully* doing someday.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help to ya, but I don't even have a g/f let alone a wife.

[Fallen Angel]

well as for me it is importaint to go out if im going to spend hours on my self nail hair make up and that purrrrrrfect outfit im going out its fun i enjoy it and my so comes with me all the time . now at first it took her some time to get use to the idea of where we were going and who was going to be there but after the shock of it all shes gotten use to it and has alot of fun as well now going out isnt for everybody but it is for me

[Debbie Kong]

Going out "en femme" is very important to me. It's part of a goal I set for myself a number of years ago.

With the exception of one luncheon date all of my twenty ( Yes, I'm still in the counting phase. ) outings have been to T Friendly night spots. Safe Houses you could say. I don't have interest in going shopping. I like to dress up not down.

I plan to be out in Toronto on October 29th.

Debbie

[Mandy Salamander]

hi steph,,,as have previously stated,,am really quite out and open*,,,but really don't think that going out en femme is as important as just being femme,, if that makes any sense at all to ya,,,at one point, getting out was the end-all and be-all to my existance, or so it seemed,,, but now that i've been out umpteen many times,,clubbing, shopping, you name it,,, doesn't seem that important at all, in fact getting dressed to the nines for a big night out is rather a pain in the arse,,, am much happier just being femme in comfortable surroundings,, such as not having to worry 'bout changing or removing make-up should someone drop by, or entertaining at home dressed as i please,,,, also doo appreciate kathy's perspective,,,thinking might be nice to have someone provide a similar one for me sometime,,,

[MarinaTwelve200]

I dont feel I really HAVE to go OUT at all. I'm too chicken anyway. I did manage to go out LAST Halloween for the FIRST (and still only) time, though---Dressed as a 'Gypsy fortune teller'. I was sooo proud of my costume I HAD to enter the Costume contest at our adult sunday school class Halloween Party.---I found I COULD "tolerate" THAT. It was Halloween, so I had a "legitimate" excuse, (if needed) and I wasnt really just dressed as "A Woman" anyway. A fortune teller IS a Halloween CHARACTER, so that took some of the CD/TG aspects away from it.---enough, all total, that it was within my psychological "tolerence range" --so I actually went out--a photo below.(I won the contest, BTW)

As far as taking hours to apply makeup, nails, etc. I dont consider THAt a waste for not going out---I just photograph it. Indeed, I can sometimes aviod a bothersome dressup session at times, just by reviewing the photos.---I usually only dressup when I am bored or think of "something new" to try.

[vanessa]

I have been out in femme once. I will do it again, but like the others who have said that it is not all important, I will agree. The first time was very important to me, because I realized that personally if I put myself out there in that way, went through all the stress and fears of getting read, and actually sitting in public as me, then I was validating my inner most desires and goals. They were no longer pipe dreams, but actual tangible parts of my being.

[Wendy me]

going out infem well to some that are closeted and fear being found out not that importin ,, some need to get out even if it's a late night setting in the back yard..
some need the lights and glitter of beeing seen out...when i do photos and work on a new look i go out...kinda a teast run...i go out alone usealy a long drive almost 1 hour each way and usaly to a all night grosery store and sometimes to a latenight phasamary too ... but as far as a must do well it's not realy that importain i dress to some extent and do my yard chores every day ....i would say if you want to go out do it just a few things ...be carfull and by allmeans be safe....use your own judjement and don't feel pressured to do anything your not ready to do.....

[parris james]

I couldn't even fool blind people if I went out I think that every person has to find out whats best for them, as in all things in life. I have had to make many comprimises because of my work and yet am still quiet happy with who and what I am

[Rachel_740]

Absolutely essential. If I didn't go out en-femme I wouldn't go out at all. I got rid of all my drabs and there's no way in this world I'm EVER buying any more! (Unless the right guy comes along and then they won't be for me.)

Anne

[Natalie x]

At this stage of my development as a crossdresser, going out en femme is very important. My femi9 side has been suppressed all my life. Now that I have discovered her and released her from her bondage, I want her to enjoy all the experiences that I have missed all these years. For me, it would be like being in prison, a betrayal of myself, to shut her away now.

[~Tammy~]

I presume we are talking about going out totally en-femme, right? Well how about partly en-femme?

I ask this because on my home from work today I had a rather strange experience.

As the bus pulled up to the stop in the middle of the city center, I saw several people queuing to get on the bus. I noticed a man's head aged around 50-55. A few seconds later I saw a bright pink top, short denim flarey skirt & hairless legs. I got off the bus and took another quick glance. Yup, it was the guy's head on top of the pink top and skirt. Cool, I thought. Though this guy didn't have a wig on, no make-up and a long grey santa clause type beard. I stopped to light a cigarette while I wondered whether to go up to him and give my respect, then a 20 something guy walked past me with I presume his girlfriend. The guy says, "Did you see that guy?". I said yeah. The girl giggles and says, "He's wearing a skirt". All I could say was, "He could have shaved his beard".

Walking away from this I could only be jealous that he had the guts to wear whatever he wanted in broad daylight without trying to pass as a woman.

My upmost repect to that person

P.S. If you are that person, I would to take this opportunity to say... The pink top was lovely but I would have gone with a pleated denim skirt.

[Tamara Croft]

P.S. If you are that person, I would to take this opportunity to say... The pink top was lovely but I would have gone with a pleated denim skirt.

you are funny..... Tammy the fashion guru

[Phoebe Reece]

Everyone's going to have a different feeling about how important it is to get out enfemme. For those that have never experienced it, it will probably have a lot less importance than for those that have. It's a kind of Pandora's Box, once you start doing it, you have a really hard time going back to the way things were before. I worked for many years overseas and had few opportunities to get out during that period. I really got tired of being all dressed up with no place to go. Since being back in the USA I have kind of gone the other way. Getting out is so important to me now, that I only dress up (not counting wearing pantyhose to bed most nights) if I am going out. I get out at least one weekend (Friday afternoon & evening and all day Saturday) a month and usually a few other times in the month as well. My wife doesn't care to go out with me enfemme, but that's OK, I have other CD friends that want to get out and about and she has no problem about me being with them (she has met most of them).

In your situation, if there is a nearby support group, you might want to investigate joining them. In my group there are a number of wives and SO's that go out with their CD partners when we have group functions. The presence of other GG's makes them more comfortable. Another way of increasing your wife's comfor level is for your wife to put on a wig and disguise herself in case she has some fear of being recognized (some of our member wives do that).

[Stormgirl]

Never gone out En Femme and don't plan on to,Im just plain chicken sh*t.I am fine being able to dress in my apartment.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Never gone out En Femme and don't plan on to,Im just plain chicken sh*t.I am fine being able to dress in my apartment.

I'm with you there, so long as I am HAPPY WITHOUT having to go out i will stay INDOORS. The one and only Halloween outing I ever did was last year and it really dosent count in my mind as i wasnt going as "A WOMAN" but as a character--a gypsy fortune teller ---COSTUME. Yes it was female, but I had a shock mission THAT night. It was successful, no one considered me a CD, and now I am back to staying indoors.----

[Julie]

Stephaine,

One of the things I've learned is once we are dressed our SOs immediately see us differently. Even the most accepting SOs still see their guy as a girl no matter how much we insist we are the same person. Read the "Now I Like it, Now I Don't" thread and you'll get a pretty good idea what I'm talking about. Maybe women are so strongly affected by their visual images they have a hard time getting past the outward appearance. Maybe they are in shock that this big strong guy they met, got to know and love and became involved with is now prancing around as a dainty woman and their head is spinning. Whatever they experience, I can't say for certain but it seems pretty universal they do see us differently when we are dressed.

It takes time and patience to show your SO this is something she shouldn't feel threatened by. If you want to go out and she's still reluctant, maybe you could find a couples or family oriented group such as Tri-Ess to take her to. Just make sure she won't be the only SO there so she has someone to relate to.

You still need to be aware that all the patience and understanding in the world won't guarantee she will eventually 'come around'. My ex made many a statement claiming her acceptance but her actions always said otherwise. I believe she really wanted to accept but her upbringing just wouldn't let her. She would tell me she was totally accepting but then when I suggested she go to Tri-Ess meetings or read some literature or go out with me she always found a reason to decline. And we were married 23 years.