Crossdressing and the military

[Jessica798]

I am in the military and I started shaving my whole body about 8 months ago and didn't try to hide it. Some people have noticed but no one seems to care that I shave my arms and legs. One woman actually got curious when I mentioned an epilator(not for everyone, but it works great on my arms). Yesterday I had a bad morning, the ball of my nipple ring fell out and I ended up missing breakfast(breakfast sets the rest of my day).

So I wore a bracelet. It is small with glass beads. It is mostly yellow, but it sparkles green. Definitely feminine, but not overbearingly so. I felt so much better with the bracelet on I took the plunge and wore it to work! I didn't even try to hide it. People noticed alight, but I would shrug and just tell em it was my wifes and got caught in my things when I came here(my wife is not with me at this assignment), and that I decided to wear it. No one has really given me more then a friendly question about it.

I feel so much better being able to express my female side in such a small but noticeable way. It has made me think ahead to the time with don't ask don't tell will be repealed, do you think that would change the way people in the military looked at crossdressing considering the connection alot of people seem to have between the two? I would love a day when I could put on a dress on base and walk to the store or postoffice! lol, Unlikely, but I can dream.

[CourtneyBleu]

I'm sure you know better than me, but crossdressing in the military just seems like it could be dangerous..

[Mollyanne]

Jessica, I was in military service a long time ago and a lot has changed since then but I would REALLY think and consider overt ramifications against you considering the negative opinions of us(cd'ers). I understand how you feel and how the "inner girl" wants to emerge but consider your remaining time and your rank. Sometimes word of mouth can and will follow you no matter where you go. For now, keep a low profile and when you can (in private) let the "girl" come out.

Mollyanne

[RobynB]

Jessica, I do not know what you do in the military, but would not wear a bracelet be considered out of uniform?

[Loni]

on duty have only the required uniform on.

off base your time have fun.
i am not in the military, but have know a lot in service and it would not be a good thing for you to doing right now. the job market in the real world is not so good.

especially if you get a medical discharge.

.

[VikkiVixen7188]

does it violate dont ask dont tell policy?

If not it worked for Klinger on MASH.

[Priscillia Smith]

does it violate dont ask dont tell policy?

Yup, that's why my career in the Marines ended. 9 1/2 years and was outed. FYI, according to the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), and sexual position that is not "missionary" is illegal. There is a whole section about sex and it's comical. Masturbation is a punishable offense.

[Diane Elizabeth]

I would have said that my wife gave me her bracelet to wear while away from her. Though you won't get persecuted for wearing the bracelet, Be careful of what you wear so you don't become a target. I had known a soldier get an AR 15 for being sunburned and unable to perform duties. But I would be more concerned about the nipple rings be exposed to the authorities.

[TxKimberly]

I am in the military and I started shaving my whole body about 8 months ago and didn't try to hide it. Some people have noticed but no one seems to care that I shave my arms and legs. One woman actually got curious when I mentioned an epilator(not for everyone, but it works great on my arms). Yesterday I had a bad morning, the ball of my nipple ring fell out and I ended up missing breakfast(breakfast sets the rest of my day).

So I wore a bracelet. It is small with glass beads. It is mostly yellow, but it sparkles green. Definitely feminine, but not overbearingly so. I felt so much better with the bracelet on I took the plunge and wore it to work! I didn't even try to hide it. People noticed alight, but I would shrug and just tell em it was my wifes and got caught in my things when I came here(my wife is not with me at this assignment), and that I decided to wear it. No one has really given me more then a friendly question about it.

I feel so much better being able to express my female side in such a small but noticeable way. It has made me think ahead to the time with don't ask don't tell will be repealed, do you think that would change the way people in the military looked at crossdressing considering the connection alot of people seem to have between the two? I would love a day when I could put on a dress on base and walk to the store or postoffice! lol, Unlikely, but I can dream.

All questions regarding gender aside, I thought jewelry other than wedding rings was against regs? Of course, my knowledge of regs and such is now 15 years out of date . . .

[Stephanie-L]

The last time I looked (a few years ago), men could wear a wedding ring, and possibly another ring like a class ring, but even then be required to remove them if the situation warranted it. Women could wear the rings and ONE pair of earrings, either gold, silver, or pearl balls, depending on rank and the occasion, I believe there was even a maximum size, etc. Items like St Christopher medals could be worn under the uniform, again to be removed in certain situations. Bracelets are a no-no, and anklets, even for women, are for some reason a big no-no. Of course, depending on the command, the C.O., etc, some people stretch these limits kind of far......Stephanie

[DonnaT]

See my post in the thread at http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/....php?p=1904241

[tinalynn]

Yeah, the UCMJ is a little antiquated in places... However, law codes and conduct standards aside, being outed in the military can be a physically dangerous thing. Lots of young, testosterone-full men eager to prove their manliness. That can be a dangerous situation... Please be careful.

(FYI, I did 6 years in the Navy and only dressed a few times. Find a hotel room 50 miles away, or so...)

[Kathi Lake]

Jess,

It sounds like to me that you almost want to get caught, so the hiding can stop. While I understand that, I have to say that it can be dangerous - not just physically, but career-wise to do this.

Although it probably wouldn't come to it, punishment could come from article 134 of the UCMJ - the so-called "Catch-all" article:

Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special, or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.

Basically, conduct that shows discredit to the military can be interpreted at the discretion of that court. In other words, it's not you and your interpretation of what is "right." It is someone else. Someone who may not hold to your views and interpretations.

So, while in uniform, wear the uniform. While not in uniform, wear what you like - knowing that until your enlistment ends, you are still, in effect, Government property.

Kathi (and yes, I am in the military )

[NiCo]

Um…I don’t now about the US military but I deffo know that the UK military is far more open minded than people think. I should know, I want to be there; however I must have my surgery first cause I am half way done. The thing is, even crossdressing and being a TV is acceptable off-duty, I have a document given to me when they changed their policy in January 2009.

There is no “don’t ask don’t tell” in the UK armed forces anymore. Hopefully one day the US armed forces will catch up.

Good luck!

[Beth Wilde]

I've been in the RAF for 18 years now, been openly gay for the last 9 years since they changed the ban on homosexuals serving. Oddly, having gay people in the forces hasn't had the crushing effect on morale that was predicted in ages past! In fact, it's made no difference at all, I wish the US forces would get with the times. As for being a TV, several of my friends and colleagues know about Beth, and don't care..... I am still me!

Must admit that I stick to the uniform code on duty and leave the jewellery at home.

[SuzanneBender]

While I understand that, I have to say that it can be dangerous - not just physically, but career-wise to do this.

So, while in uniform, wear the uniform. While not in uniform, wear what you like - known that until your enlistment ends, you are still, in effect, Government property.

First Jess let me say thank you for serving. I know how wonderful it feels to have that small reminder of your feminity with you at all times, but girl for goodness don't make it noticable when you are in uniform! Its not a game and serious ramifications can occur if you are outted.

Kathi is correct article 134 is the article used to pursue judicial punishment in this case. The military also loves to remove transgendered from their ranks by using the DSM-R as the route to medically discharge transgendered soldiers for a psychiatric disorder.

The repeal of don't ask don't tell will not immediately impact the military's view of and process concerning transgenderism. Don't ask don't tell deals soley with sexual preference not with gender. Our community is often quick to point out that the two are not intertwined and I am sure the military will agree. Could it possibly be a precursor to reforms? Of course, but I am not holding out hope that those reforms will come quickly. Jess I would not take that dress you are planning on strolling across the base in to the dry cleaners just yet. Sorry.

It sounds harsh but to quote Army Regulation 670-1, "... discipline is judged, in part, by the manner in which a soldier wears a prescribed uniform, as well as by the individual's personal appearance. Therefore, a neat and well-groomed appearance by all soldiers is fundamental to the Army and contributes to building the pride and esprit essential to an effective military force. A vital ingredient of the Army's strength and military effectiveness is the pride and self-discipline that American soldiers bring to their Service through a conservative military image."

It is not my place to say that this is right or wrong. I have my opinion on the topic but it does not matter. This is the culture of the military service that many of us volunteered for. It was put in place for a reason. If we want to play on their court we must play by their rules when we are on their time.

Now to the uniform and hair issue. I too like no body hair. For me it is more an issue of personal preference then gender. I despise the way body hair feels under my clothing. I am not the only soldier in this boat so no big deal. I have never had anyone comment on my lack of body hair and actually it makes for better field hygiene.

Jewelry is a issue of uniform policy. I am not sure what branch you are in but the Army's AR 670-1 is very specific,"a. Soldiers may wear a wristwatch, a wrist identification bracelet, and a total of two rings (a wedding set is considered one ring) with Army uniforms, unless prohibited by the commander for safety or health reasons. Any jewelry soldiers wear must be conservative and in good taste. Identification bracelets are limited to medical alert bracelets and MIA/POW identification bracelets. Soldiers may wear only one item on each wrist. "

Sorry dear your bracelet is not authorized and soon a sharp NCO is going to see it and point this out.

As far as your piercings go, "Body piercing. When on any Army installation or other places under Army control, soldiers may not attach, affix, or display objects, articles, jewelry, or ornamentation to or through the skin while they are in uniform, in civilian clothes on duty, or in civilian clothes off duty (this includes earrings for male soldiers)."
Those nipple rings are not authorized while on post. It stinks. I would love to have pieced ears, but it just isn't happening for the time being.

Kathi has it right. Dressing while in uniform is risky business. Do it when you are not on duty and away from your post. Look around. You are in the most gender neutral environment know to man. Except for a bun in their hair and small earrings the biological females look just like you. Do what they do and use your off time to express your femininity. Consider it another small sacrifice for the privilege of protecting our society.

[dennisGTS]

^ What Kathi Lake and SuzanneBender said! ^

If you were in my unit and I saw you with that bracelet on while in uniform, I'd immediately tell you to take it off.

Wear the uniform according to regs and you will be fine. Then, however and whenever you want to CD while off duty is totally up to you, just do it descretely and/or don't get caught.

[tinalynn]

Speaking of all this lawyering stuff, if you are caught and they go down the path of a discharge, rest assured it will not be a good conduct discharge. It will be a general discharge (at best). Doesn't sound so bad, but it's not so good, either. That must be declared on job questionnaires if its asked. And if declared, the interviewer will think twice. I know I have...

Now, after all this legal mumbo-jumbo, keep in mind that everyone here wants you to be safe while having fun. So go fun, just do it safely...

[minalost]

...crossdress hardly at all during my three year hitch in the army (20+ years ago..). A tiny little bit at home was it! Please pay attention to Kathi, Suzy, and the others with more recent military experience - they are smart ladies!

[Stephanie-L]

One thing I forgot to mention. Some years ago when my daughter first joined the Navy, she had pierced nipples. After the second infection due to the piercings she was told she could either remove the jewelry or leave the Navy. The reasoning was that while there was really no problem with the piercings themselves as long as they couldn't be seen in uniform, the infections were rendering her unable to perform her duties. The military can tell you to do or not do a large number of things if they feel that it affects your military usefullness. There is a similar rule on visible tattoos. I also knew of a guy who got angry and punched a pole, breaking his hand, he was disciplined because the military lost the use of him while he was healing because of his stupidity. So, the idea is, when you are in the military, you do not really own your body, and you cannot do whatever you want with it, even when off duty you have to be careful........Stephanie

[Dana]

Yup, that's why my career in the Marines ended. 9 1/2 years and was outed. FYI, according to the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), and sexual position that is not "missionary" is illegal. There is a whole section about sex and it's comical. Masturbation is a punishable offense.

Artical 134 under the UCMJ ~ Conduct un-becoming a mitary member~ the "Catch 22"

No matter what you say or do?

Your screwed!

[Dana]

Jess,

It sounds like to me that you almost want to get caught, so the hiding can stop. While I understand that, I have to say that it can be dangerous - not just physically, but career-wise to do this.

Although it probably wouldn't come to it, punishment could come from article 134 of the UCMJ - the so-called "Catch-all" article:

Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special, or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.

Basically, conduct that shows discredit to the military can be interpreted at the discretion of that court. In other words, it's not you and your interpretation of what is "right." It is someone else. Someone who may not hold to your views and interpretations.

So, while in uniform, wear the uniform. While not in uniform, wear what you like - knowing that until your enlistment ends, you are still, in effect, Government property.

Kathi (and yes, I am in the military )

Yes! Yes and Yes!

[Jessica798]

Thanks for all the replies! So the branch I am in allows nipple piercings and bracelets, with some restrictions on the bracelets. The one I wore and wear sometimes still I can only wear in the dress uniform due to a rule about "gemstone" bracelets. A friend mentioned glass beads might be considered gemstones by some people, so in my work uniform I started wearing a very accepting green bracelet made from 550 cord which alot of people wear.

[joanad]

Speaking of all this lawyering stuff, if you are caught and they go down the path of a discharge, rest assured it will not be a good conduct discharge. It will be a general discharge (at best). Doesn't sound so bad, but it's not so good, either. That must be declared on job questionnaires if its asked. And if declared, the interviewer will think twice. I know I have...

While that is probably often (and perhaps even normally) true, it's not always the case. I know from personal experience you can avoid a general discharge, but you'll still run into questions why your separation from the service was so "sudden" and not at the end of an assignment. Not necessarily a big deal; but, while the questions can be uncomfortable, they are better than a general or bad conduct discharge.