Why is Cd'ing = Wanting to be a Woman via Surgery

[AKAMichelle]

I have had my wife tell me that she is suspicious of that ever finding out that I went out dressed. Then I read thread after thread of the same thing. I would love to know how that feeling gets started and how to prevent it. I think the feelings we want to be a woman full time is what ends many relationships and if we could figure out how to save a few relationships then this thread would be worth while.

[Lorileah]

There is a song "You have to b carefully taught" and that applies to "us" a lot.

As a group we all know that we are not all on the same road, we do the label thing threads over and over, and it ends up being a "Don't call me Shirley" fight. I should say most of us know it. There are a few here who still think if you ain't _____ you are just playing a game. So anyway, how does this start? When outside people see the fringes of the group. It is hard for us to compete with daytime talk shows that show us as deviates. Or movies where we play the funny crossdresser or the psycho murderer. Or like this weekend the television news will focus on those 12 people in the parade who are overly camp Or even just the societal misunderstanding that we all want to be women. Maybe because those that don't want to go all the way stay hidden from public view. Sort of like how 60 years ago every Italian-American was a restaurant owner or fruit salesman. Or even closer to us how every woman who wore slacks was trying to be a guy or trying to emasculate them.

How to prevent it? That is hard. In order to eliminate wrong ideas you have to replace them with corrected ones. And it is harder to break bad habits than to instill good ones. We are a small minority and as noted in many threads we don't even agree to disagree here. It would take a united front to start educating. It won't happen in this community. When only part of the community is truly marginalized, the rest of the community won't or cannot rally to support them. We can work on the one person at a time thing. We can try and show our friends and SOs that what we do is just what we do. It may not go any farther than a sometimes thing, a fun thing. And it usually does not go any further but without being able to point that out with examples, it is an uphill job. It is easy to point out TS's who have made a name for themselves. But try and point out a guy who likes skirts who has made an impact (Before everyone points at Eddie Izzard, he is a comic and he doesn't really give us a great image). What I am saying here a picture is worth a thousand words. One great crossdresser who isn't a clown (i.e. all the movie actors who have portrayed CDs) or the bank robber on the bad side to all the great TS's who make a statement that IS positive back to Rene Richards and going through today, one positive model would really show how we all don't want to or NEED to go the whole post-op route.

[Cheryl James]

Well, I don't know if my wife believes that this is the forerunner to GRS or if she believes that it is evidence that I am gay, but I do know that she equates this with everything that is disgusting and perverted (her words). And, there is zero middle ground, nor does she have an open mind about learning anything about this. She, also, believes that the desire to dress can be turned off like a spigot. We're, obviously, not on the same page.

[AKAMichelle]

Cheryl thanks for reminding me. The other one is the famous you must be gay line. I just so tired having to defend it and constantly tell people that I have no desire to transition or be with a guy. I'm straight and a cd'er. There I have said it, but how do you make a woman believe it? That seems to be the million dollar question.

[sissystephanie]

I told my dear late wife that I was a CD BEFORE we married!! She asked me 2 questions. " Do you want to become a woman, and do you, or would you, go out in public dressed as a lady!" I told I had no idea of ever becoming a lady, but that I would like to out dressed. She then told me that she could help with that, and that as long as I always remembered that I was her Man our marriage would be fine. It was for almost 50 years, until cancer took her.

You, or anyone, can do the same! All you have to do is keep reminding her, in whatever ways you can, that you are her man! Regardless of the lace panties you are wearing!! I have never wanted to be a woman, I just like to dress like one! And that is what I do!

[AKAMichelle]

I told my dear late wife that I was a CD BEFORE we married!! She asked me 2 questions. " Do you want to become a woman, and do you, or would you, go out in public dressed as a lady!" I told I had no idea of ever becoming a lady, but that I would like to out dressed. She then told me that she could help with that, and that as long as I always remembered that I was her Man our marriage would be fine. It was for almost 50 years, until cancer took her.

You, or anyone, can do the same! All you have to do is keep reminding her, in whatever ways you can, that you are her man! Regardless of the lace panties you are wearing!! I have never wanted to be a woman, I just like to dress like one! And that is what I do!

I am sorry of our loss of your dear friend. Thanks for sharing. It gives all of us hope that we too can find what you had for so long.

[Roberta Lynn]

My wife accepts and supports my CDing. She understands that this is just part of me.
That said, I know in the back of her mind she has that fear that one day I'll tell her that I want to transition. I enjoy my CDing but that is as far as I need to take it. I constantly reassure her that I enjoy my male self and would never want to lose that. Now I know I've deepened her worries by raising the level and frequency of my Cding since I've retired. She can't read my mind and of course that's going to increase her concern. I just hope that she trust me enough to believe me when I tell her I have no desire to transition.

How do I reinforce that trust?
By not going behind her back and doing things without her knowledge.
By making sure she always knows she will have her 'guy' to lean on if she needs to.
By going out spending time and having fun as man and wife.
By not making Cding the main focus of our relationship.

All relationships and the personalities in that relationship are different. This works for us. Will I ever completely erase her worries? I don't know. I can't read her mind either. I just hope to bury them under enough trust to make them insignificant.

[StaceyJane]

When my wife found out she thought I was gay. She even told my daughters I was gay.

[Kate Simmons]

We have a hard enough time wrapping our head around the feelings that drive this Michelle, let alone appreciate the fact that most other folks, SO's included don't have a clue to begin understanding.

[kellycan27]

There is a song "You have to b carefully taught" and that applies to "us" a lot.

As a group we all know that we are not all on the same road, we do the label thing threads over and over, and it ends up being a "Don't call me Shirley" fight. I should say most of us know it. There are a few here who still think if you ain't _____ you are just playing a game. So anyway, how does this start? When outside people see the fringes of the group. It is hard for us to compete with daytime talk shows that show us as deviates. Or movies where we play the funny cross dresser or the psycho murderer. Or like this weekend the television news will focus on those 12 people in the parade who are overly camp Or even just the societal misunderstanding that we all want to be women. Maybe because those that don't want to go all the way stay hidden from public view. Sort of like how 60 years ago every Italian-American was a restaurant owner or fruit salesman. Or even closer to us how every woman who wore slacks was trying to be a guy or trying to emasculate them.

How to prevent it? That is hard. In order to eliminate wrong ideas you have to replace them with corrected ones. And it is harder to break bad habits than to instill good ones. We are a small minority and as noted in many threads we don't even agree to disagree here. It would take a united front to start educating. It won't happen in this community. When only part of the community is truly marginalized, the rest of the community won't or cannot rally to support them. We can work on the one person at a time thing. We can try and show our friends and SOs that what we do is just what we do. It may not go any farther than a sometimes thing, a fun thing. And it usually does not go any further but without being able to point that out with examples, it is an uphill job. It is easy to point out TS's who have made a name for themselves. But try and point out a guy who likes skirts who has made an impact (Before everyone points at Eddie Izzard, he is a comic and he doesn't really give us a great image). What I am saying here a picture is worth a thousand words. One great crossdresser who isn't a clown (i.e. all the movie actors who have portrayed CDs) or the bank robber on the bad side to all the great TS's who make a statement that IS positive back to Rene Richards and going through today, one positive model would really show how we all don't want to or NEED to go the whole post-op route.

I agree, and believe that the tg community is too diverse to mount a consorted effort in order to educate the masses. I think that realistically we need to go day to day, one case at a time. If people need to judge, let them judge ME for the person I am, not by the group tha I am a part of. Life is short. I don't care what Joe Blow, who lives on the wrong coast, or across the pond thinks about me. Any concerns that I have, have to do with my own little space and not the world at large. For those of you you who believe that we should be advocates.... re-read the first couple of sentences of this post. There seems to be a lot of harumping going on, but not much action on the "education" part. Yeah we all agree that the GP needs to be educated, but I can't do it because I have a job,friends,and family to worry about, but I will support your efforts..if just in spirit.. I am behind you 100%.
As for the little.. "I am not gay" disclaimers.. I understand the need for our inner circle of loved ones and friends or co-workers to know, but i don't understand the need to make that admission here where all are accepted and sexual orientation or preference shouldn't make a difference. If I am not mistaken, the GP has access to this section. What kind of msg does that innocent little statement send? We don't care if the GP reads about what color panties or what size bras we wear or all the other "fluff".... But some of us feel the need to make it perfectly clear that they are NOT gay. IDK, but to me it just seems a little suspicious. Now before anyone gets their pink lace panties in a bunch, I am not accusing anyone of being a homophobe... just saying it may look like some are trying to distance themselves from the gays.
Just a thought.

Kel

[ColleenW]

.... But some of us feel the need to make it perfectly clear that they are NOT gay. IDK, but to me it just seems a little suspicious. Now before anyone gets their pink lace panties in a bunch, I am not accusing anyone of being a homophobe... just saying it may look like some are trying to distance themselves from the gays.
Just a thought.

Kel

Hi Kelly - It's never occurred to me to disclaim being gay in any of my posts. I'm not but I've never considered it relevant. I think there is a lot of societal pressure though, regardless of how open our society is supposed to be, for men not to be gay or show any evidence of it unless he's trying to be funny. I can't help but remember all of the furor a few years ago when George Bush was seen holding the hand of the Saudi king. Neither man is gay but that didn't stop the comments. Perhaps those of us who feel the necessity of mentioning their straight status are just reacting to that societal pressure and to the stereotype of CD'ers being closet gays. After all why would you want to wear a dress if you wern't gay? (Before I get flamed this is a rhetorical question.)

[telawilson]

Well, I don't know if my wife believes that this is the forerunner to GRS or if she believes that it is evidence that I am gay, but I do know that she equates this with everything that is disgusting and perverted (her words). And, there is zero middle ground, nor does she have an open mind about learning anything about this. She, also, believes that the desire to dress can be turned off like a spigot. We're, obviously, not on the same page.

When I was discovered, my wife was the same way, except she said it was "weird." I think she pictured the stereotypical middle-aged, balding man dressing in his wife's things while she's away and preening in front of the mirror. She also asked if I was gay, wanted GRS, etc., all of which I responded no to. I'm back in the closet now.

I do feel guilty about deceving her, but I have a contingency plan if she discovers again, and that's to tell her that it's a part of me I can't remove, I don't look forward to that day, though.

[Philipa Jane]

Hi all
This I found interesting because my surrogate sister who was informed of my CDing recently asked me on Monday if I was gay or bisexual.
She has been talking to my partner and the general consensus between the two of them was that "they could not get their head around the concept."(try being on my side of the fence)
My partner did warn me of impending questions but I still intended to answer truthfully.
There is so much that is assumed by our loved ones and often not a grain of truth in what they surmise.
You do not have to be gay to appreciate the finer points of your female side.
You do not have to have surgery to explore your female side.
Does wanting to emulate feminine qualities make you less of a man or diminish you as one.
Not in my book.
I am who I am.
Even when I look like someone else.
Pj

[Joanne f]

A good question ,How does the feeling of wanting to go out start,
maybe it is slightly different for different people but it may have something to do with when being at home is just not enough and there is this pull at you that you want to be seen and communicate with others as to make you fulfilled and feel normal .
And how can you stop this happening , not sure that you can but i expect you can dampen this urge a bit by mixing with others in a limited way , maybe a cub or visiting someone .
Will this stop a wife/so from thinking that you want to become a full time woman , maybe and maybe not it would all depend on how open you are with it but if that desire is there then it is very difficult to find a happy medium where both are going to be happy most of the time .
It stands to reason that the more you dress and the more you want to go out then the more a wife/so will suspect that you wish to become a woman but this wish/desire if you have it can have little to do with the dressing , if it is there by not going out will not stop it .

[kellycan27]

Hi Kelly - It's never occurred to me to disclaim being gay in any of my posts. I'm not but I've never considered it relevant. I think there is a lot of societal pressure though, regardless of how open our society is supposed to be, for men not to be gay or show any evidence of it unless he's trying to be funny. I can't help but remember all of the furor a few years ago when George Bush was seen holding the hand of the Saudi king. Neither man is gay but that didn't stop the comments. Perhaps those of us who feel the necessity of mentioning their straight status are just reacting to that societal pressure and to the stereotype of CD'ers being closet gays. After all why would you want to wear a dress if you wern't gay? (Before I get flamed this is a rhetorical question.)

You just did... Ok, I'll give you that, but why here? Why make that distinction here in tg nirvana? is it really societies doing or our own personal hang up? Take the average person... Do you really think that they care? Does their personal opinion have any bearing on your life? I think it has more to do with internal pressure, rather than societal. I don't totally discount the role that society plays, but IMO it's not the elephant in the room that a lot seem to blame their woes on. I think that in a lot of cases society is a great way to mask our own internal fears and self doubt. We can't expect society to accept us as long as we can't accept ourselves. if we run and hide or give the impression that something about it isn't acceptable are we not in fact saying... I am doing something wrong? Or at least making it seem like we are? keep in mind that I did say other than our close circle of friends and loved ones. This is just an opinion.. your milage may vary.

[ColleenW]

You just did... Ok, I'll give you that, but why here? Why make that distinction here in tg nirvana? is it really societies doing or our own personal hang up? Take the average person... Do you really think that they care? Does their personal opinion have any bearing on your life? I think it has more to do with internal pressure, rather than societal. I don't totally discount the role that society plays, but IMO it's not the elephant in the room that a lot seem to blame their woes on. I think that in a lot of cases society is a great way to mask our own internal fears and self doubt. We can't expect society to accept us as long as we can't accept ourselves. if we run and hide or give the impression that something about it isn't acceptable are we not in fact saying... I am doing something wrong? Or at least making it seem like we are?

I guess I've not made myself clear. I COMPLETELY agree with you

[Cheryl James]

When I was discovered, my wife was the same way, except she said it was "weird." I think she pictured the stereotypical middle-aged, balding man dressing in his wife's things while she's away and preening in front of the mirror. She also asked if I was gay, wanted GRS, etc., all of which I responded no to. I'm back in the closet now.

I do feel guilty about deceiving her, but I have a contingency plan if she discovers again, and that's to tell her that it's a part of me I can't remove, I don't look forward to that day, though.

When my wife discovered my secret she demanded, as a condition of continued married life and a relationship with my 2 children that I seek counseling (she refused to accompany me, though, because she didn't need to have her views challenged). I did and, basically, left it after a few times because, the bottom line, I wasn't a danger to society and the therapist didn't think that I could change, anyway. Since then I tried, sincerely, but this is me. I am not making any bets on our marriage lasting (there are many other reasons, not just this).

[Kaz]

You just did... Ok, I'll give you that, but why here? Why make that distinction here in tg nirvana? is it really societies doing or our own personal hang up? Take the average person... Do you really think that they care? Does their personal opinion have any bearing on your life? I think it has more to do with internal pressure, rather than societal. I don't totally discount the role that society plays, but IMO it's not the elephant in the room that a lot seem to blame their woes on. I think that in a lot of cases society is a great way to mask our own internal fears and self doubt. We can't expect society to accept us as long as we can't accept ourselves. if we run and hide or give the impression that something about it isn't acceptable are we not in fact saying... I am doing something wrong? Or at least making it seem like we are? keep in mind that I did say other than our close circle of friends and loved ones. This is just an opinion.. your milage may vary.

Cheryl thanks for reminding me. The other one is the famous you must be gay line. I just so tired having to defend it and constantly tell people that I have no desire to transition or be with a guy. I'm straight and a cd'er. There I have said it, but how do you make a woman believe it? That seems to be the million dollar question.

The vast majority of us here will have a consensus view that binds is all... call it a common vision, or just common ground. The differences tend to pull at other things, our fears, hates, phobias, etc.. and it is so easy to rise to the "issue" we think we see before us. Like Colleen and others, I agree with Kelly in principle.

I think the issue raised by Cheryl is the issue that if a female SO wants a straight partner (not because she is anti-gay, but because that is her orientation) and then finds her partner likes to dress in women's clothes, this raises a fear that her partner is no longer what she wants in a relationship. Hence the gay issue. It is not about publicly proclaiming. It is about people understanding the potential threats/changes to a relationship that a revelation such as this can bring.

A SO may know and be friends with many gay guys and girls. But she may herself not want a gay SO, She may want a straight guy. So if she thinks her CDing partner is gay, or wanting to be a full-time woman... this becomes an issue that could threaten the relationship and so it needs to be discussed.

This is why the need for educting people on this. There are DCs who are gay, straight, want to transition, want to walk about dressed, want to go for GRS - we are a broad "church". Many people who do not know many (if any) CDs will not understand this and the revelation of someone being CD will play to their ignorance/misunderstandings and fears.

[AKAMichelle]

When I was discovered, my wife was the same way, except she said it was "weird." I think she pictured the stereotypical middle-aged, balding man dressing in his wife's things while she's away and preening in front of the mirror. She also asked if I was gay, wanted GRS, etc., all of which I responded no to. I'm back in the closet now.

I do feel guilty about deceving her, but I have a contingency plan if she discovers again, and that's to tell her that it's a part of me I can't remove, I don't look forward to that day, though.

So now you going to lie to your wife all these years about it and your contingency plan is to own up to it and confess. Sounds like a terrible idea. I hid things from my wife for 25 years and covered it up / lied about it all in the name of peace. In the end it finished off a failing marriage.

I think you need to rethink your decision.

[Stephanie Anne]

Many of us who are trans sexual started crossdressing and I think there is a belief that if you want to look like a woman, you must deep down inside want to be a woman.

there is also this stupid belief that if you dress like a woman you must secretly want to be with men and therefore must be gay.

Talk about idiotic stereotypes started most likely in the golden age of repression, the 50s.

What I don't get is why so many women have s^&t fits about this?

Oh and were did the if you dress like a woman you are obviously a child molester come from? That blows my mind that in this day and age people still act like that.

Granted when I am out the worst I get is huddled whispers of "is that a guy or a girl, I don't know" but still just to know that people can be as cruel as the stories I read hear about some people's wives are enough to make me sad for society as a whole.

[celeste26]

Probably the biggest mental issue is the issue of black and white thinking. If you're not one then you MUST be the other. This attitude is ingrained in our society at all levels and it has never been true, but it does make thinking about things less of a puzzle, eases our road in life to make things simpler.

Everyone here should already be into the spectrum of behaviors rather than this simplistic black and white form of thinking, but to overcome this societal issue will take time. Little additional effort since life itself is complex and history is full of mature societies living in a more complex world than they used to live.

Show them a move called "Pleasantville" if they ever have a chance to overcome this handicap watching this movie will open their eyes. This is a great movie and it will bring out the emotions but it will blatantly expose the black and white thinking for what it is because of the purposeful use of Black and White images compared with colored images.

[Sheila]

Perhaps because there has been so much in the media in recent times about sex changes, in magazines, in the papers, on Television, it has enabled Transgenderism to be brought forward and has enlightened some people, but where at one end of the scale we have the drag queen image that was portrayed, it has now been replaced very much by the "TOtal Change" from Man to Woman. Then given that so many partners discovered after so many years, it can take a huge leap of faith to believe there are no more lies being hidden

Also given that the M2F forum can be viewed by the general public and the number of threads where CDERs admit the change from being a part timer to wanting to do more and more, and those threads admitting they are moving more down the TS line, is it any wonder that some SO's find it difficult to believe I think until SO's are not finding our years into the relationship there will always be doubt and worry but just my

[ReineD]

I just hope that she trust me enough to believe me when I tell her I have no desire to transition.

How do I reinforce that trust?
By not going behind her back and doing things without her knowledge.
By making sure she always knows she will have her 'guy' to lean on if she needs to.
By going out spending time and having fun as man and wife.
By not making Cding the main focus of our relationship.

Bingo! Doing these things will help enormously.

But the problem is when it's a "Don't ask, don't tell" situation, it is frustrating for the CDer who must out of necessity look for any opportunity to dress, and who understandably feels frustrated or angry if he can't dress freely. This would make it seem as if CDing is THE priority in life and further that he must want to do it all the time ... leading to what? Wanting to transition? Or if the shopping or time spent online is akin to a compulsion. Or when the husband looks increasingly feminine in guy mode, with the long hair, eyebrows, nails, pierced ears, no body hair, etc. I do understand the wives who don't believe their husbands when they say don't want to transition. I've been there myself. Wives don't need to be members here in order to read how many TSs did start out with CDing and the desire to transition happened slowly over time. Or how many CDs say they would dress FT if they could. In a GGs mind, there is not much difference between TSs and FT or near FT CDs.

A good question ,How does the feeling of wanting to go out start, maybe it is slightly different for different people but it may have something to do with when being at home is just not enough and there is this pull at you that you want to be seen and communicate with others as to make you fulfilled and feel normal.

Joanne, I hear you, but what you say is another puzzler for GGs. If dressing makes a CD feel fulfilled, complete, and normal, this implies that he does not feel "normal" as a guy. Hence the conclusion that he must want to be a girl.

Many of us who are trans sexual started crossdressing and I think there is a belief that if you want to look like a woman, you must deep down inside want to be a woman.

there is also this stupid belief that if you dress like a woman you must secretly want to be with men and therefore must be gay.

Yup, that's pretty much what GGs have a hard time wrapping their minds around. Not being CD or TS ourselves, you can well imagine why it's hard to get beyond the concept of binary gender.

Women who dress seductively (I stress seductively or who want to be sexy, not who dress well) do so to attract men. So when a hetero CD's focus is to look seductive, who does she want to attract? Lesbians won't be attracted to her coz he's a guy. Hetero GGs aren't attracted to women. So this only leaves other men. It's not a stretch to figure out why GGs ask the questions they do.

Probably the biggest mental issue is the issue of black and white thinking. If you're not one then you MUST be the other. This attitude is ingrained in our society at all levels and it has never been true, but it does make thinking about things less of a puzzle, eases our road in life to make things simpler.

Precisely. It is difficult for most of us to imagine having a blended gender. We've only just seen men and women around us since birth so it is crucial for a CD to be open and communicative with his wife. And to let her know he also enjoys being his guy self.

Roberta Lynn has the best answer for helping a wife believe her husband has no wish to transition.

[Lucy_Bella]

Well, I don't know if my wife believes that this is the forerunner to GRS or if she believes that it is evidence that I am gay, but I do know that she equates this with everything that is disgusting and perverted (her words). And, there is zero middle ground, nor does she have an open mind about learning anything about this. She, also, believes that the desire to dress can be turned off like a spigot. We're, obviously, not on the same page.

My soon to be ex acts the same way ( never knew she had a sister ).. It's funny we find that behaviour disturbing and they find ours the same. Common ground need to be established and trust built. I feel from a GG's point of veiw , that they have the edge . It's us who are rockin the boat if you will , with the gender bending.

To treat as this was yesterdays news and go on like it never happend is wrong without her understanding, yet if she refussed to understand then what direction can you go ? Because we all know you can't bottle up the urge to dress for very long..

[busker]

Playing devil's advocate for a bit here.
Most all have admitted that they began in their teens and that was some sexual component to wearing panties or whatever. But over the course of years that initial exposure (as described by individuals) has grown in many ways to fetish dressing, BDSM, and other variations, and many variations on dressing in general from stay-at-home dressers to those that go out fully en femme with garters, hose, corsets and other paraphenalia that most women no longer wear. That would certainly be over the top and make one perhaps a bit curious as to the reason -but that's for another day and another topic.

From an SO's point of view, if this were just just a sexual thing, just wear some panties , flog the dog and be done with it--but that is clearly NOT the case for most. SO's are rightly suspicious when hubby dresses, wants to go clubbing and meet up with someone who will treat "her" like a lady--and perhaps more. That makes the gay/want to be a woman notion a bit more real (but unacknowledged by the dresser)
Looking at the number of views of some topics in the first 4 pages of threads, crossdressing and dating guys =32,764 hits. Would you date a CD =4788., Young CD's where are you (just who is looking here?) 42, 474 hits, Are there any CD's who are gay? =4622, Bi-curious or ?=2844.
. If you were an SO browsing this forum and looked at those threads and stats, wouldn't you be wondering whether your SO who dresses, is on the level with not wanting to be a woman or gay. There is an unusually high interest in those topics--many times more that the active users (about 7500--but could include snoopers from the general public)
It is certainly a fair question and one that deserves exploration but it also requires a real honesty among CD'ers about just exactly who and what they are (and nearly all hate labels). Since we are all here trying to understand ourselves, it may not be entirely clear where we all do stand all of time.

Over the course of nearly 70 years, I've known a number of men through work who started out in adulthood, married with children and and heard them tell of finally fessing up to their wives when being Gay was no longer the stigma it was in the 50's or 60's. So, to deny that one might be gay or want to be a woman (is it that autogynephilia thing raising it's ugly head) could very well be viewed with suspicion by any woman married or living with someone who is a practising CD'er.
Yes, the answer to the question could be that being a CDer could indeed lead to surgery--real or imaginary.
just my thoughts