Job interviews

[Ann Thomas]

Hi Girls,
It's been a really long time since I've been on (nearly 9 months) and even longer since I've last posted. I've not had time to catch up on things, so I do hope I'm not being redundant.

I relocated to SoCal last fall, got busy and ended up landing three jobs, one of which fizzled quickly, but the other two have hung in there, sometimes being spotty, but all in all we're surviving. Problem is, with two jobs, that leaves no time to do anything but shower and sleep when at home. Add to it 3+ hours of commuting each day since both jobs aren't anywhere near my apartment.

But now I have another challenge - both my car and my wife's car died quickly one after the other, leaving me forced back to job hunting. Last fall I did great and landed lots of interviews, and back then I asked all of you to comment on crossdressing as related to job interviews. I thank you all for your input back then, and hope someone here can give me a bit more advice.

I followed all of your advice and things have at times been a bit interesting, but very tolerable. I slowly began to crossdress at work, a little at a time, and the results have been livable.

I found one company I applied to last fall has many more openings now that I am qualified for, and of course I'm applying to them all. I really think I stand a good chance of landing at least one interview with them. But here's the rub:

They openly support crossdressers, or so they say:
"All employment decisions are made without regard to race, color, age, gender, gender identity or expression, sexual orientation, marital status, pregnancy, religion, citizenship, national origin/ancestry, physical/mental disabilities, military status or any other basis prohibited by law." (emphasis mine)

So, how femme do I go to an interview with this company? Do I dare say the name of them on here, as maybe someone here might have experience with them either in hiring or employment with them?

Looking forward to your responses!

Hugs,
Ann

[Christina Horton]

Do you want to dress full time at work? If you do then go fully dressed and see where it goes. If you still want to be known as a guy but dress fem then well you have to figger it out.

Do what you feel you need to do.

[sometimes_miss]

"All employment decisions are made without regard to race, color, age, gender, gender identity or expression, sexual orientation, marital status, pregnancy, religion, citizenship, national origin/ancestry, physical/mental disabilities, military status or any other basis prohibited by law."

What is the law, what people say, and what they think is an entirely different matter. And, the person in HR that hires you might be fine with you being a crossdresser, doesn't mean the people that actually work beside you will be thrilled with you coming in wearing a miniskirt. Like most prejudices, people won't talk about it, but they will behave the way they feel. You may not ever openly see it, but there will always be some who will find ways to exclude/ignore or even manipulate situations in ways that will negatively affect you, in most cases you won't even know it. You'll just have to live with the results.

[Mikaela]

First, welcome to SoCal.
And Lexi is right. Policy vs Reality are different.
Jobs out here are scarce. Regardless of official policy, you are interviewing against many other people in most likelihood. Interviewing and getting a job is about you manipulating the situation to be considered the obvious choice, don't ruin it for yourself. Get the job first, then deal with how the policy exists in practice.

[KandisTX]

In all honesty, unless you plan to start living 24/7 as a woman, going to a job interview en femme makes absolutely NO sense. The important thing is to get the job, and let's face it. If you apply for a job as a man, and show up looking like a woman that's going to throw up quite a few red flags REGARDLESS of what company policy or the law states with regard to discriminatory practices.

Think of it this way, your resume shows your work history, the prospective employer is going to verify and contact them for references. (Fortunately, by law the only thing they can say is whether or not you are eligible for rehire). Now, if you present as female during the interview, you most likely are not going to use your masculine name, so what happens when they try to verify your employment? Does your resume have your femme name or your masculine name? Is former employment as a man or woman?

Like Meg said, get the job first then worry about what company policy is about gender identity.

Good Luck to you hon.. I left SoCal 13.5 years ago because the job market SUCKED out there, then again, it's not much better here in Texas, I've been looking for work since last September when I got laid off after 12 years with a company.

Kandis

[victoriamwilliams1]

Do you want to dress full time at work? If you do then go fully dressed and see where it goes. If you still want to be known as a guy but dress fem then well you have to figger it out.

Do what you feel you need to do.

I was thinking the same.

I would also add that since they know of your dressing and depending on the level of the job and again if you want to dress full time at work then be business professional at the interview. I do know that if it is management some companies are accepting however they like a consistency with management. If the job is non management go either way since they know and continue as you are.

All in all follow your instinct .

[CallMeMeg]

I prefer a t-shirt and jeans, but I wear a suit and (ugh) tie and real shoes (OK, they're Aerosoles, but not my normal New Balance) to interviews.

Dress to impress. We all disguise our true self at job interviews.

[Rachel M]

I believe you are there to sell yourself and your qualifications for the job. However you choose to dress for the interview, male or female, make sure it exudes full confidence in your skills to do the job.
Rachel

[Paula Siemen]

GET THE JOB!!! Having been unemployeed now for 16 months with very few interviews, only to be passed over for younger, leass qualified applicants, I would not throw any issues in my way of making the best possible impression for myself at an interview. You need the job, you sound like you need the money from working: don't piss off a chance to get them both.
If cross dressing at work is important to you, and the company policy says they do not dicriminate on gender identity, then work there a while. Proove your value to the company and only then began to morph into your feminine style. You will be able to test the reception by wearing a gender neutral and then a fem item. See what reactions you get. Have a discussion with the HR after you are there a good while and take it slow.
This is STILL NOT the time to mark yourself for layoff or not getting the job. Take care of yourself and your family. Their needs are greater than your need to crossdress at work. Deal with it!

[Katesback]

I think there is a certain explanation that is not put forth in any non-discrimination policy. You see they certainly can aviod hireing/ or get rid of you if they know you are going to be switching back and forth at will. This would probably be considered a disturbance to your and other peoples work in many situations.

It is hard enough for me to work with people that switch back and forth and I am trans myself. That said I can assue you that non trans people arent likely to adapt to the switch back and forth stuff.

Pick one and stick with it 100% of the time when on the job.

Katie

[kym]

Let me give you a point in perspective here. I run my own company and I have several hundred employees from my VP's all the way down to the crew members. If a prospective new hire came in for a job interview presenting as a female and had the qualifications and experience I was looking for then I would strongly consider them regardless of their genetic gender as long as they presented 100% the gender they represented in the interview , if they switched back and forth on male to female styles of dress then there would be a major problem. I do have am hr policy that deals with gender expression and presentation making the companies position on it crystal clear. As well I do have at least one transgendered individual working in store management besides myself who does not present a problem at all because this individual interviewed as a male and is sticking with that style of dress even though they are a pre-op ftm and debating on full transition. hope that helps, even though I am on the east coast this is a situation that is nationwide. Lets face it employment is hard to come by these days, o that being said, if you are willing to come to work as a woman and pend 100% of your personal time as a woman, then by all means go en fem, but otherwise I would not suggest it.

[Ann Thomas]

I do appreciate all your input, each of you, as it is very valuable. I've not yet decided what to do, as I've not yet been scheduled for any interviews with this company.

Here's a few answers to some of the points made, just for fun:

I worked for a company for 12 years, and I was abruptly informed of my impending lay-off in September 2008 - with the lay-off date being not set. Began searching in my area (southeastern Washington State) immediately. Searched for a year, applied to all I could find, which was scant, maybe 40 apps placed in a year, got no interviews at all. My ex was killed in March 2009, so I had to move to Spokane for three months while my daughter finished school for the year - worked remotely but was finally laid off in June. Was offered free training by a partner of my grandfather's in a new blue collar job, and went for that in Seattle in August. My family helped until September, when I moved to Orange County, California, so that my daughter could attend one of the top high schools in the nation, and be anonymous as well.

Began searching for jobs immediately on arrival. Job listings here are maybe 40 new listings I qualified for *per day*. Once I got my resumes and cover letters refined, I began getting interviews at the rate of three per week. I got my input on resumes and cover letters from the One Stop center near me (those are located throughout the USA, although maybe called by other names in other states - look for centers that have the federal WIA program as part of the service). Financially I was in really bad shape, though.

I was finally hired in November by a company I had applied to on my second day in OC. The job is in the field I got the free training for. Got a second job in December, then a third in January. All have been part time, temp jobs, as all companies I interviewed with were afraid to make someone permanent at that time. Was hired on the spot at first interview all three times. Some weeks I work 60+ hours, other weeks only 40 hours. The third place didn't work out long term as I wasn't broadly enough trained, so that only lasted a week.

I got a call to come interview at a place I'd dropped off a cover letter and resume at months earlier. During that interview I got my fourth job offer, and accepted for nearly 50% more money, but suddenly their business dropped to near zero, so my hiring date was put on hold. It's been over 2 months now, and it's just getting worse for them. Hope it gets better soon. So, still been holding down the two jobs, until last week.

Both cars I have died within days of each other, so it looks like I'm having to give up on job, because it would take 2.5 hours on public transit to make it there. The second job is moving me to first shift, and they take a 30 minute commute by train to reach, so that's doable for now.

So back into the job market I go, looking for jobs within walking/biking distance of where I live.

For those of you out of work:
Don't give up - try harder. Write new material for every application - that means research each company like crazy, and rewrite your resume just for them. Of course do the same with the cover letter. I know it's hard, but that's what works nowadays - the 'one resume fits all' days are over with. With that much work, the most I can apply to is 12 per day, but I usually keep it to 6. And that's working sunup to sundown on it - when I'm not working my job is to find a job, so I pour everything I've got into it.

At my orientation seminar at One Stop, they said the downturn hit years ago, long before the presidential election, and the jobless numbers soared long before the news reported it. That's when the climate changed for how to approach job hunting, and it's taken a long time to get people retrained at job hunting to do it correctly.

They also said that gone are the days of being hired during the first interview. But, for me it has happened 4 times in the last nine months. Do everything right and you'll get the interviews and the offers.

So, believe me, I'm listening very carefully to all you girls have said - I want to do it right, because I know it has great value long term.

Hope my story helps encourage those of you out of work!

Hugs,
Ann


PS. the move payed off for my daughter, as she got accepted to one of the top universities in the nation, with nearly a full-ride financial package. On top of that they figured out she is great in both science and writing and have invited her to join the research department immediately this fall, and if things work out in many ways, they said she would probably be able to get her master's and doctorate there as well, all paid for by university research funding. I guess finding scientists who are good writers is a rare combination! Oh, what a relief for me after all this sacrificing!

[tinalynn]

Congratulations to your daughter, Ann! And good on you for taking care of her at your inconvenience. Too many parents now wouldn't dream of doing what you're doing to get their kids a great start...

It seems like you're doing everything you can to find a good job, so keep it up. As far as dressing, policies are nothing more than words from the HR guys when you're still in the interview phase - words they legally have to say to stay in business. It doesn't mean that the interviewer has no independent thought process that will come into play. Some lines of work are more amenable to 'artistic' endeavors, but any interviewer will assess the amount of workplace 'trouble' (for lack of a better word) you're likely to bring. I think it depends a lot on they type of work and the type of people already working there.

I work in an environment with a lot of ex-military, its fairly sarcastic, caustic, and fun - everyone picks on everyone in a fun manner. But that type of workplace is not for everyone. So... If I had to choose between two equally qualified people, I'll take the one I think would fit in best. If the interviewer knows anything about management, (s)he will want a good fit as well as good qualifications.