conversations with my wife

[kaleyg]

ive had several little conversations lately -- all containing hints and implications, but none of them getting anywhere really.

after we visited my family, and my mother took my wife for a shopping trip, i mentioned that my mother said that she felt bad that she hadn't done anything for me. my wife said to me, "you can have one of my swimsuits." (there was one she wasn't crazy about.) i said, "with the luck ive been having with swimsuits lately (i had two lose their elastic) . . ." she replied, "don't even think about it."

shaved my legs (and a lot more) for a triathlon recently. at bedtime, when she got in bed, she was wearing long pj pants. i said, "you should take those off so you can snuggle up with me." she said, "this is just a little wierd for me honey -- i'm supposed to be the one with smooth legs." (she had actually told me a few days before, when i was really stubbly: "you need to shave.")

today, i came into the bathroom and she was painting her toenails. she said, "why are you standing there watching me?" i said, "why not?" she said, "it feels like you want to paint *your* toenails." *i change the subject.*

we've had conversations about my 'feminine side' before, and they always end up causing serious problems which are only resolved once i more or less forget all about it or we pretend the problem never existed.

i so much want this to be a part of our lives. but she'll never see me the same again -- she'll lose respect for me and won't be attracted to me anymore.

feeling stuck.

[Monica73]

You know before I came out to my wife we had similar conversations. I've had my left ear pierced for years and I told her I wanted my right one pierced. She was ok with it and pierced it for me but not after debating with me that it was very girly. Luckily I have a couple friends who have both pierced and so I used that as my argument. I don't have any acceptable reason to shave...so for now I can't! I feel as though I'm being watched now and questioned on my motives.

[tinalynn]

I'm guessing that you didn't come fully clean before the wedding, and if so you gave up the chance to have her be part of it. Playing at her speed is the only option if you want to keep the marriage whole. She married a man, not a woman... Besides, you're not stuck.

[sissystephanie]

Kaley, what you have to do is let her know that you are still the man she married! She did not marry a woman!!

You obviously do have conversation with her, so talk to her like the man you really are! If she doesn't want you to have your nails painted, just forget it. Or mayber ask her if you could do them in either clear, or very pale pink.

My dear late wife was very supportive of my CD activities, but only allowed me to wear pale pink on my fingernails, which I still do. My toes have been bright colors for many years, and are a very bright red right now! But I never let her forget that under all the feminine stuft, I was still the man she married!! My tag line says it all!

[Starling]

...i so much want this to be a part of our lives. but she'll never see me the same again -- she'll lose respect for me and won't be attracted to me anymore.

feeling stuck.

Kaley, I feel your pain because it's mine, too, and that of many of us. And you know what? It may not get much better. My wife knew about me before we were married, and married me anyway, but when theory became practice she flipped.

I'm not giving you any advice, honey, just encouragement and support. This ride will take all your strength. Good luck.

Lallie

...My dear late wife was very supportive of my CD activities, but only allowed me to wear pale pink on my fingernails...

Sis, pale pink sounds like Flamingo Mysterioso to me. You're a very lucky lady to have had such a wonderful wife.

Lallie

[Angiemead12]

Tis a tricky part on where your at. It's out in the open but the acceptance level is low. When I started to come out to my SO at 6 months into our realtionship I started out with just panty interests with her but in reality I already knew what I had wanted. I just droped it in phases. It took me a while to get to where I am now but it was worth all the long hours of talks. Communication and information were the two things I needed the most. Also being honest to myself to know what I truly want. I had to buy her books, go online, see a shrink, come out to friends and family just to make things ok

It's hard for women to see their dream man Being taken away. She feels deceit, insecurity, and not enough woman. I had to make sure to assure her that I loved her completely and that the person she wants to be with is on the inside. As much as our physical reflection is important it's the person within which she gets along with and loves. Also her ego takes a blow thinking she aint enough woman, I always told her that she was enough woman and and that I'm this way because it is how I want to express myself and not to compete with her woman hood or take any maternal roles that she plays in the family. Lastly the questions of are you gay, will you go all the way and what do people think? Got through that with no I love women to much to be gay, I told her I'm more lesbian, i always fanatsize of going all the way but will not because it would mean losing the person I love the most. And I had to tell my immidiate family and friends to ease her burden of my secret. And it gives her someone else to talk to about me. Today some of her friends know and I'm not bothered at all!

Goodluck hope this helps you out.

[AKAMichelle]

My wife never accepted my cd'ing but she acted the same way. When I paid attention to something she was doing, she became threaten and claimed that I was infringing upon her territory. Sounds like your wife is acting simularly.

[Angie G]

Kaley Years ago my wife dressed in sexy night wear for my pleasure. One night I said it's my turn to dress she said Don't get weird on me. Through a round about way I got her to let me wear a skirt one very hot day.That was 4 years ago and now I dress 5 days a week At home with my wife there. We some times even shop for Angie. So don't give up keep talking who knows maybe it will work out for you.She has to know that even girlie your Still her MAN.
Angie

[kaleyg]

she knew before the wedding -- i almost lost her over it. but we understood it as a 'problem' that i was struggling with. still the same view. we are both fairly conservative socially and pretty religious (not fundamentalist). so, being transgender is just incompatible with that world view.

i have little hope, tho angie, you have given me some more. i do want to reassure her of those things you mentioned. im not sure how except by my actions. we have great sex, and she is the only woman for me. i am more attracted to her and in love with her than ever. im not sure what to say to her.

thanks everyone for the support and feedback.

[SuzanneAZ]

Not sure I can help much Kaley, but a big step for me in talking it over with my wife was not so much asking for her to understand what I wanted, but to ask her to help me understand why I felt the way I did! I firmly believe that women have a desire to nurture and protect that which is dearest to them. If she feels that she is helping you understand your own feelings and the issues that you are battling, she may be a lot more on your side than you imagine. Try approaching the subject by asking for help instead of acceptance. Also realize that one size doesn't fit all here, so to speak. What works best for me might be totally wrong for you. And pick a time that is conducive to your discussion. Right after she comes home from a stressful Monday at the office is probably a bad bet!

[Angiemead12]

she knew before the wedding -- i almost lost her over it. but we understood it as a 'problem' that i was struggling with. still the same view. we are both fairly conservative socially and pretty religious (not fundamentalist). so, being transgender is just incompatible with that world view.

i have little hope, tho angie, you have given me some more. i do want to reassure her of those things you mentioned. im not sure how except by my actions. we have great sex, and she is the only woman for me. i am more attracted to her and in love with her than ever. im not sure what to say to her.

thanks everyone for the support and feedback.

You off all people would be the best judge of her character. Always take things lightly and make sure you bring back the happy moments of your relationship. It helped when my SO took a piece of paper out to write down the things that define me and her in the relationship. What our roles are you both play.

Women thrive on conversation. I had to buy books like my husband wears my clothes, living with a transexual. And 2 more I can't remember right Now. But basically trying to make her understand the scientific side of things. If you love her and she loves you back then you can make it work. In the beginning there were many ground rules for me. I can't do this I can't wear lace I can't buy shoes. After a few years of being comfortable with it I now do most of the things I couldn't do. But I let her set the ground rules and allowed her to accept it on her own time. Plus having an outsider for her to talk too helps. Because she can't consult or vent to anyone in fear of being laughed at. Maybe a shrink may not be such a bad idea. But you need to make sure they are gender specialist and not an all rounder conservative.

Goodluck! It takes time.

[mklinden2010]

ive had several little conversations lately -- all containing hints and implications, but none of them getting anywhere really.

after we visited my family, and my mother took my wife for a shopping trip, i mentioned that my mother said that she felt bad that she hadn't done anything for me. my wife said to me, "you can have one of my swimsuits." (there was one she wasn't crazy about.) i said, "with the luck ive been having with swimsuits lately (i had two lose their elastic) . . ." she replied, "don't even think about it."

shaved my legs (and a lot more) for a triathlon recently. at bedtime, when she got in bed, she was wearing long pj pants. i said, "you should take those off so you can snuggle up with me." she said, "this is just a little wierd for me honey -- i'm supposed to be the one with smooth legs." (she had actually told me a few days before, when i was really stubbly: "you need to shave.")

today, i came into the bathroom and she was painting her toenails. she said, "why are you standing there watching me?" i said, "why not?" she said, "it feels like you want to paint *your* toenails." *i change the subject.*

we've had conversations about my 'feminine side' before, and they always end up causing serious problems which are only resolved once i more or less forget all about it or we pretend the problem never existed.

i so much want this to be a part of our lives. but she'll never see me the same again -- she'll lose respect for me and won't be attracted to me anymore.

feeling stuck.

Gee, Stan, make a plan.

Again, hinting around doesn't work - it just makes everyone queasy as reality goes in and out of focus.

First, buy your own clothes. It's not difficult, it's not illegal, and, the "creepy" factor is way down. And, if you get a bad fit, deal with it like a normal person.

Second, if you're into Tris, she needs to suck it up and get used to a bit of stubble. At your level of competition, you probably don't need to shave a damn thing, but you can shave your legs if you want to because, well, they are your legs. If she wants to grow her hair back in response, oh, well... Suck it up on your side.

Meanwhile, they're your toes. You're not asking her not to paint hers... So, what's up with her veto on your saying, "Huh, I want to give that a shot."

Long story short, if you'll just make up your mind what you want to do and start doing it, both of you will notice that the world doesn't come to an end in 8, 7, 6... nano seconds.

Oh, and lose the femme side. Would your wife make any sense if she came up to you and said, "Darling, I'm feeling some stress because I'm not expressing my "macho" side enough."

No. Probably not.

If, however, she said, "I'd like to get a gun and try duck hunting next winter." you might better get the idea that this was an activity that she might be able to do and like.

If you say, "You know, I THINK it would be cool to go out Saturday night dressed in "x," and wearing a pair of "y," so that I could, "z," it would be hard to argue with because it's what you THINK. Same, or, even better, if you use the word, FEEL. If that's how you FEEL, that's how you FEEL.

As part of all that, it would make sense to call oneself, "Crystal," just for fun, and to stop while you're out for coffee at, "a."

Make a plan Stan.

Who doesn't like a man, or, a woman, with a plan?

[kaleyg]

i dont think yur grasping my situation. buy my own clothes? did i even mention wearing her clothes? i dont wear them. as for the tris, yur right that i dont *really* need to shave -- but how do u know what level of competition im in? as for just saying, "hey, i think i'd like to paint my toenails tonight" -- that would basicaly be a slap in the face to her because she's explicitly said no. i could suggest something we havent discussed, like "hey, i think it would be cool to wear a skirt today around the house." but this would be *so* strange. people dont just decide to wear a skirt for fun for no reason.

anyway, having a plan is great, but i dont think u have a clear picture of what my situation is.

thanks for the feedback in any case.

[Lorileah]

this type of post always has the same underlying current. I "hinted" I "joked" I "teased" and then when confronted they add I "backed down" I "Changed the subject". This one has the extra "she knew before we were married and understood it was a "problem"." Yes it was a problem. You gave up right then and now you want us to bail you out or sympathize. Well I am sorry for you. However did you honestly think she would change her mind a year or 2 or 10 after the wedding? I am sorry for her too because you will be "hinting and begging and pleading" forever. One of you is going to get tired of this you know. And worse case scenario this marriage will go the way 50% do. I think you now have the choice. You know what they are and you will have to choose. The ideal would be if you SAT down and calmly talked about how you feel, how she feels about how you feel and set some boundaries as to what you both can accept. But you sort of already set your standard by calling it a problem. Hard to erase that. As long as YOU think it is a problem, it will be.

[kathtx]

we are both fairly conservative socially and pretty religious (not fundamentalist). so, being transgender is just incompatible with that world view.

Why? There seem to be plenty of folks on this board who are very religious and/or socially conservative and also happy with being transgendered. Apparently they don't see any incompatibility. Why do you?

I'm neither religious nor socially conservative (at least not in the contemporary American sense of the phrase "socially conservative"), so I can't be much help beyond raising the question. You might ask others on the board how they resolve the apparent incompatibility.

Kath

[vivianann]

I am very conservative, and religious too. all my friends know about my crossdressing, and most of them are very conservative and they have accepted me no matter what, our views are the same and that is all that matters. They applaud my courage to dress how I want.
So I dont have any compatibility issues with my crossdressing and conservatism.

[Starling]

...If she feels that she is helping you understand your own feelings and the issues that you are battling, she may be a lot more on your side than you imagine. Try approaching the subject by asking for help instead of acceptance...

What a great insight, Suzanne! I just hope it's not too late to apply it to my own relationship.

Lallie

[KayleeDahl]

Totally know that stuck feeling you are talking about, wish I had some helpful advice, but I don't. I also knew that my sig-other was not going to ever be accepting of me, and in the end I ended that relationship for me. This certainly is not my recommendation, we all have to come to these things on our own, and I have read at least a couple times on here how much you love your so.

Just know that we are here for you!!

Hugs
Kaylee

[noeleena]

Hi.

One detail that does come up a lot is ( You married a man male ) not a woman . . even tho i was brought up as boy / male & seen as one , i was never a true man / male .
so my ? has allways been & i never related to men a part that is missing for me & i struggled with that for so long ,

Yes i married Jos & we have grown up kids & grand kids & i was 24 when we married i passed over that detail till 12 years ago & for 50 years never got it ,
& many of you are all male yet love to dress ,
ill never know what a real male is & nore could i be one . & to day a guy iv known a few years now . said if i had been a dresser i could have both , being a male & a dresser. he knows me well enough so its cool .
I said not now he knows about my ops & so on , i said no im a woman with that boy / male past. just not a full male , & even if you s explained a real male i dought & know i would never fully understand & yet the womans side i do .
So yes, you men, im still trying to figger you s out , will i , nope. oh well thats me ,

...noeleena...

[shannonFL]

Kaley, she sees you as having a problem...and she will want you to "fix" it.
I know they are out there, but most wives expect the traditional....defined however you wish...and when you being tg makes her unhappy...she will make sure you are unhappy as well. You can be the best husband, provider, friend, lover, and none of it will count...because of this. Sound depressing?
Sorry, I can only share what has been my own personal experiences. If I could change only one thing with a magic wand it would be to erase the damage being tg has done to my marriage. You can try the talking/sharing
game, but it will quickly run up to a point where talking makes it worse...and then you will not want to share your feelings about this ever again.
You may get lucky, I could be totally wrong, I am only relating my own experience...I know there are many cd's who can share this with their wives...or have varying levels of understanding, not here, not at all.
Best of luck to both of you.

[Jenny Doolittle]

Wow, sure a lot of different topics being discussed in this thread all of the sudden.

Regarding communication, Be honest with your wife Kaley as well as yourself. Sure little jokes can lead to in depth conversations, when that oppertunity happens be open and honest with her. I too had that happen with my wife and I used it to explain that I had this "Alter-Ego" within me since a child. It is NOT a problem, it is just how I am as a person.

It seems most of us are toeing a line that partners have agreed upon regarding how far out of the proverbial closest we can venture. That line is always being negotiated, but respect her wishes and try to communicate your own desires and needs to express who you are as a person. Let her know that the person she fell in love with is not just a "male shell" but that the person you are inside is directly related to the alter-ego that lives within you. I have 6 brothers, and she tells me all the time that I am the pick of the litter. I tell her that is a result of my feminine side that makes up the whole me.


And lastly, Always come back to the same topic everyday, Tell her how much you love her!

I hope this helps you and your wife becomes closer. The support I feel from friends in this and other rooms has really helped me and my wife become closer.

[Rogina B]

Shannon just wrote that her marriage is "damaged" by the TG issue.She is one of a zillion of us.Semi acceptance,varying daily,sometimes encouraging,sometimes discouraging,but there is no fix by giving up.It doesn't go away for us..it is in ourselves,part of who we are..mixed up.Some wives see it as a problem,others see it as a gift.lol Kaley is still beating around the bush and may as well tell her wife what she wants.Perhaps when her wife sees that Kaley's girl side is important to her confidence as a husband,she will respect that. It is too dificult to live with an "elephant in the room" that wants attention!

[kaleyg]

understand that i am just venting -- not a whole lot of logical, rational thought in my first post really. just feelings.

i think i can be content to keep this secret to myself for the foreseeable future. some people you read about in history kept secrets like this to their grave but still had wonderful lives. lives that had pain and sacrifice, but so much more too. i know its not just about me. i have to do what is best for my marriage, because that is more important to me than satsifying my female desires. some may think this way of thinking is backward, but i think this is how the great people of history have lived. we make sacrifices -- we deny ourselves certain dreams. as bono says, "some thoughts are too expensive to ever want to keep." by 'keep' i mean make reality. i think i need to take my eyes off myself for a bit and try to give more than i get.

this is where im at now. who knows what will happen.

i am deeply appreciative of all you girls here! u are a real help to me.

kaley

[mklinden2010]

i dont think yur grasping my situation. buy my own clothes? did i even mention wearing her clothes? i dont wear them. as for the tris, yur right that i dont *really* need to shave -- but how do u know what level of competition im in? as for just saying, "hey, i think i'd like to paint my toenails tonight" -- that would basicaly be a slap in the face to her because she's explicitly said no. i could suggest something we havent discussed, like "hey, i think it would be cool to wear a skirt today around the house." but this would be *so* strange. people dont just decide to wear a skirt for fun for no reason.

anyway, having a plan is great, but i dont think u have a clear picture of what my situation is.

thanks for the feedback in any case.

You seem to be begging for scraps - old swimsuits. Did I not grasp that correctly?

If you were winning Tris and making money, some of us would know you. I don't think any of us have seen you collecting any first place medals at big events. Have we?

A slap in her face because you fiddle around with your own toenails? It's not a slap to her face, it's paint on toes.

You're not proposing to wear a skirt for no reason. You're proposing that because you want to do it. If that seems "strange" to you, why are you here asking us how to go such things?

I have a clear picture of your situation - you're unhappy, you're fumbling, and, you're defensive.

My SO's comment on your OP was, "So, does he keep those numbers on his arms when he comes to bed? I love that!"

Yeah, she does...

[kimdl93]

All I can say is take your time. For every step you take towards being more open about your CDing, try to balance with even more demonstrations of your affection and dedication to her.

As for the religious and social conservatism, look for opportunities to broaden her horizons a bit. Over time, her attitudes may soften as she realizes that there are lots of different, but still good people in the world.