[SIZE="3"]I am the same person, but when dressed. strive to be the lady i could have been. If i am not mistaken, there is a regular poster, who has addressed "integrating" the two sides, quite often. I am waiting to see what that person weighs in with.[/SIZE]
I can easily understand the occupation problems and the internal image, I guess it's something we all come to some sort of understanding, somehow and someway. A lifelong cd, and out to my wife for a year, lots of talking, but I am also trying to work out the acceptance and integration of the obvious dual sides of my personality. I guess we each have to figure this out, all being different, probably not much help on this one. Maybe I'll get something out of this thread that'll help. I think there was a statement a while back along the lines of welcome to the wild and wacky world of crossdressing, might just as well accept it. Probably sums it up as well as any.
I think you do need to accept yourself first as a CD. You need to think how gays went about coming out of the closet. Meaning you need to be proud to be a CD, knowing that you are a better person for it because you have a more rounded personality and are willing to explore part of your natural personality that most men are too scared to even admit it exists.
You will know you have accepted yourself the day when you are prepared to tell other people that you are a CD. This will be the day when it is OK for others to see you in feminine dress.
As far as integration goes, this is really about letting go of the male ego entirely. It needs an understanding that everything that we have been taught and conditioned as boys then as adult men has been deliberately skewed to produce males that have been lobotomized - our femininity having been cut away and made inaccessible. Many CDs cannot get past this feeling of wrongness that female behavior and wants should not be expressed in a male body. They think of their male and female selves like oil and water which cannot be mixed together.
Integration happens when you can finally see the naturalness and beauty of femininity in a male body. How to get there? For me it was giving up emulating women which was a tool in which I created a false and separate female identity. When I stopped emulating I was left with just me in a dress. I stopped wearing wigs, makeup and breastforms at home. At first I found the image of my male self in female clothes unrewarding but in time I began to see me just in clothes that I liked because they made ME feel feminine. That is when I reached integration. Up to then my female wardrobe was a tool designed to reach a magical place of escapism and fun. Now my female clothes are actually just clothes not tools.
I firmly believe the source of CDing is that we are tomgirls - boys who just want to express and enjoy our natural femininity. But because of many issues like guilt, shame, strict gender conditioning, homophobia, closeted lifestyles, denial, taboos and autogynephillia, CDs end up all over the place chasing fantasies and forget what their behavior is really telling them about themselves.
I am still in a position of being fully 100% able to compartmentalise my two sides, unsure as to exactly why but I am.
I fid it far easier to become Gillian then become the drab guy than to merge them as Gillian is my ideal and I don't want to sour her with guy influences.
Gillian.
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
Wow, Satrana, I am so moved by your wise and thoughtful words.
Lisa
Well, here I am again with questions, trying to understand. Please bear with me, and I do appreciate your patience. Sometimes it seems the longer I'm here, the less I understand.Originally Posted by Satrana
Aren't you describing a TS? Having HRT and/or SRS is not a requisite for a TS to transition, as I've been told in the TS section. Some people just can't afford SRS, full electrolysis and FFS, and they may feel that HRT alone just won't do the trick for them if they are genetically more on the masculine looking end of the spectrum. Or maybe they don't want to chance losing their ability to be sexual. So hasn't a TS/TG transitioned if she knows she is feminine, and she decides to live her life presenting as her full feminine self full time as you describe (or as much as she can if she needs her job and she works in an unenlightened environment), while having made the decision she will not alter her body? Hasn't she abandoned all pretense of being a male in the traditionally cultural sense and in the way she identifies herself?
I used to think there was a divide between CD and TS, with CDs identifying as males who wish to experience life alternating femininity and masculinity. But now I'm not so sure, if the goal is to integrate and experience femininity all the time. Isn't the male ID effectively gone at this point, no matter what the body looks like?
Are there different degrees of gender dysphoria, with the more acute cases needing to eradicate all physical semblance of maleness, and less acute cases where a TS would decide she can be feminine despite her male body?
Edit - Oh wow, this was my 6,000 post!
Last edited by ReineD; 08-26-2010 at 11:59 PM.
Reine
It's a bimodal (not bisexual) personality thingy w/me sans dysphoria. A sort of M2F switch-over where she is she & he is he & I am one or the other depending on which personality predominates at the moment (usually he). But whichever one is on top it's not to the extinction of the other. The one now underneath, set-aside or down modulated is mute yet 'aware'. There is no 'battle for control' there is always mutual agreement wrt who. It's not a lightswitch, doesn't have anything to do with how I'm dressed cuz how I'm dressed simply reflects who I am without forethought or fanfare. It's like... uh...sort of liquid? Well, but stable. Same person (the axis) with two separate, fully developed and independent personalities (opposite ends), both of whom have separate interests, tastes, needs, goals, friends, different ways of thinking feeling behaving experiencing everything which of course includes physical intimacy i.e. sex.
BTW...Happy 6000th !!! And...OMG?! Six Thousand Posts?! That's just incredible! Kudos to you, Reine!!!
But how will it be in 5 years, or 10? Will one want to be on top more and more?
Thank!
Reine
I like Annaliese 's 2010 post, its kind of like that for me, the female side seems to be there even when in male mode, not in female mode enough to know if male side shows through like the female side does. Where I'll be in 1, 5 or 10 years, dont know. Trying to make sense of it all, now that my wife knows and working to keep this reltionship intact.
Hi Reine
My post was not describing TS at all, I should have choose my words more carefully. What I was trying to describe was seeing beauty in a male - not beauty through strength, authority, self-confidence etc but classical feminine beauty - sensitivity, vulnerability, unselfishness etc. Males are conditioned to reject these feelings and the roles associated with them because to do so automatically means you are not a man yet of course we are. It is a hard contradiction to get around.
Integration for me happened when I rejected the entire basis of what a man is supposed to be and accepted the naturalness that femininity was a part of every person ergo every male. If I can appreciate a woman displaying femininity then I should have the same feeling seeing a man do the same. Essentially I have become blind to biological gender. This is why I no longer need to do the psychological side-step and switch into a female persona in order for me to grant myself access to my feminine feelings. But I am not describing being female all the time, I am still mostly male but with my female side granted full access to come out with or without the clothing.
With regards to your comments on TS I will give you this to ponder. A person who becomes TS is a person who decides to no longer be TG. They seek to end the issues of being TG by settling for a single gender - their preferred gender- and enjoy the benefits of rejoining gender normalcy. This is one option.
This is my big picture view. Many CDs travel down a road of gender exploration which usually means an escalating path towards more femininity. Due to the problems of being closeted, spousal intolerance etc many never get to properly explore their feelings and get stuck along the way. For those lucky ones who do get to fully explore their TG feelings then they will eventually come to a crossroads where there are 3 choices.
1. Continue as before with separate male and female personas which will probably become more and more distinct.
2. Integration which means dropping the female persona and granting your male self permission to feel feminine at any time.
3. Become TS which means dropping the male persona and rejoining the cis-world in your preferred gender.
I didn't realize there was a divide until I started researching and looking into the communities for CD and TS.
For me, the male identity was barely there mentally by the time I started cross dressing it was more a mask that I showed people people who didn't know me so they thought what was on the inside matched the outside. Now I CD because I feel I have enough courage and support to try and match the outside to the inside. am I TS? I don't know... all of this is really new to me... but I am not at the moment, I am not looking for HRT or SRS... Full Electrolysis would be nice if I had the money... but being able to express my femininity as much as possible whether my equipment is male or not seems to be enough at the moment.
I have started hair removal on my arms and legs (epilator), Got my ears pierced, have grown my hair out long, I now wear heals pretty much everywhere but work, I wear a skirt and blouse around the house, some days I wear a corset and/or bra and my first set of forms are in the mail (yay). I am looking to dress how I want everywhere except work in the near future. And on the inside I am me, only me. Even though I don't "pass" at the moment I love what I am wearing and doing and it feels more "right" And so... besides work where I worry about my income and lively-hood I feel I am integrated.
I don't have "female personality" . Im the same person wearing what every Im wearing....
I just have strange interest in wearing what females like to wear sometimes that I don't share with the public.
I am fundamentaly the same person.
But when I dress I get more sensitive.
I stop and smell the flowers, when I just go on a walk my scenses are heighten. I love the feel my body move(hips sway, breasts move when I walk). My am more aware of my surroundings and my feminity.
There is no difference in my two halves. In fact it never occurred to me that I was supposed to have more than the one of me until I joined this forum. Andromeda did not get named until I needed a female name for this site. As far back as I can remember we have been one and the same.
I was the same. I never felt a need for a name but when I looked in the mirror I saw a woman who was not me and yet she was not another person either. So there was a male me - which was a mask used for social purposes and then there was a female me in the mirror which did not have a personality.
I have never felt a need to develop a seperate personality because how could that be the real me? And beside how can a split personality be healthy so I felt no reason to flesh her out. It would just be a another character like the male mask. The real me is something in-between the male mask and the woman in the mirror, something I had not seen myself because of my inhibitions. I think I have always felt that these two sides of me had to be integrated into a whole but did not know how to achieve that.
Im the same boy in a dress!
But way more girly then girls I know!
Personality is the same, just sexier!
If for example a guy wears a suit & tie for work, and during off-time wears something like jeans & a t-shirt, is he literally a different person during those times? ( the answer is no ).
[SIZE="3"]Gender is a state of mind[/SIZE]
LGBTQ PRIDE
As of Oct. 5th, go here to see my pics:http://www.flickr.com/people/fab_karen/
A Yankee Doodle T-Girl
proud of my President
I like to dress as a woman and at times go all out to look like one. I do like my male side though and have no desire to change into a woman. It is more just times to look feminine and sexy whether I really do or not.
My Father is male, my Mother is female that makes me 50/50!
I understand what you are saying now. I forget that men are conditioned (if I may add, mostly by other men) that it is not OK to be sensitive and nurturing, although I think that men do give themselves permission to be more sensitive with their wives and children, i.e., a husband who has opinions about home decor and is just as much a part of the decision about what colors and fabrics to use as the wife, or a dad who sits down with his daughter and her stuffed animals to have a tea party.
One of the reasons why I think I have such difficulty understanding a CD's mindset sometimes is that, looking back, I've always been blinder perhaps more than most to biological gender, or rather I do see the qualities you describe in your first quote in everyone. I've always had close male friends that I've confided in, and I've raised my sons to know that it was OK to talk about their feelings and cry when they were sad. They were encouraged to play house when they were little since I knew they were mimicking the world around them, I encouraged them to be caring and nurturing towards others, and I provided them with the right toys to do so. I always thought that a real man had all these qualities, just as a real woman should also be strong, courageous, and self-confident among both genders.
It turned out that my sons did eventually succumb to peer pressure and they did develop the machismo you describe. It saddens me now when I see them exhibit a lack of sensitivity and they forget the way they were when they were little.But, I hope it is not entirely buried and they do allow their softer sides to come out with their girlfriends.
Anyway I digress, but thanks for the added explanation.
Reine
Hmmm,,,,,,, not sure I agree with that sentiment either, but then that disagreement would be from my own perspective alone. For my last big company I wore suits daily and behaved in a corporate manner professional with client and staff alike but off duty was just me two completely differetn people and those I met from work outside found me so happy and laid back the suit was strangling me?
I now thankfully dress very casual and let my clients know I do not need a necktie for my brain to work and this policy has helped my personality shine out for the last few years, so, I guess I am saying that I may well be Bi-polar, Nyuk nyuk nyuk
I think act walk behave as girl when being a girl, and when wearing a boilersuit and working on a car its a testosterone overdose time
Gillian.
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
I sense fear in that question.
There is no definite answer. The best answer is constant, open, trusting communication between you and your SO.
My wife knows she's on a journey with me, and I with her. She knows that I do not want to transition. Anything else is up for grabs, and she's fine with that. I give her the best answers I can give her when asked, and we continue to walk together into the future.
Hello J!I'm very much wanting to follow this thread, but I'm having difficulty with knowing what integration means. It seems to be different for everyone depending on their gender ID and where they are along the continuum to self-acceptance.
Some examples:
For a TS it may mean getting rid of the idea that the femme self is separate, and coming to embrace her as the TS's core while eliminating any false male masks.
For a CD whose male self has had difficulty accepting the CDing, it may mean acceptance that he sometimes has urges to be femme and not feeling as if he is a freak for expressing her.
For other CDs who've felt the need to put on a huge male mask in order to hide the inner femme, it may be that they haven't given themselves permission to experience certain emotions in male mode, so integration might simply mean allowing themselves to cry when they're sad, or enjoy a chick flick, etc, even in male mode.
For other CDs who are dual-gender or have more a propensity to be androgynous, it may mean combining all aspects of their male/female psyches into one and presenting this at all times.
Jcameron, which one are you? What are your goals and what is it you would like to achieve with integration?
I think for all of here this is a reasonable question. When I was young and did not know anything about crossdressers I thought that I was alone and doing something very wrong. I hid my crossdressing as deep and as well as I could. As I got older I learned that there were many of us and that I was not such a weird crazy person for CD afterall. I think Reine has brought it all down into one answer. For many of us.....when we crossdress we take on a new identity. A fem self with a fem name. We try to act like we think that person should act. I believe I am more the androgynous type. I'm me (perhaps with a smaller step and more hand gestures) when dressed. But still me. The male me is pretty much the same person as well. Perhaps a bit effeminate at times, but me.
Charlie
I did that for a while also. I looked at my fem self as entirely different, a whole different personality. I was so set on separating the 2 and after a while things just started to integrate together on their own. I started to realize ive always felt how i have felt and me acknowledging my fem side doesnt mean that it is someone other than me. I am still me and to quote popeye i am what i am and thats all i am.
Being dressed up is much better if you have someone else to admire and enjoy it with you.
------------------------------------------------------
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise; what it is it wouldn't be, and what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?
- Alice Kingsley
What is "behaving like a girl"? If a girl enjoys working on a car, is she "behaving like a man"?
[SIZE="3"]Gender is a state of mind[/SIZE]
LGBTQ PRIDE
As of Oct. 5th, go here to see my pics:http://www.flickr.com/people/fab_karen/
A Yankee Doodle T-Girl
proud of my President
I like having 2 'selves' and feel that a blended one kinda cheapens each. As a man, I like manly things. As Michelle, I like feminine things. I use each to learn more about the other.
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