Holier than thou attitude going on right now...

[Raquel June]

Didn't read the whole thread, but I just had to respond to the opening rant.

... Something they do as a hobby isn't worth ruining their life.

Sure, but to play devil's advocate, a lot more people have wasted their lives by living a lie than have ruined their lives by coming out of the closet. I dare say that the vast majority of CDs on this site have long since surpassed the "hobby" stage and would do well to admit it to themselves. Actually, most of them already have and are probably in a healthier place than you are.

If you're terrified to confide in people, then maybe they're not really your friends or maybe you're afraid your family doesn't really love you. Get your tippie-toes back in reality a little bit instead of perpetuating a bizarre out-of-touch fantasy that alienates loved ones and avoids your real issues. If CDing is this unacceptable thing that you're ashamed of and can't quit and are afraid of having your life ruined by, then maybe you should stop pretending those stolen panties you're hiding are the same as a stamp collection.

Maybe some people need to borrow clothes in order to satisfy their need to cd because they don't have the confidence to go and buy their own, or they fear ordering clothes in case the parcel goes to a family member.

And how many things have you "borrowed" and then not given back? Most people aren't going to "borrow" something without asking then wash and dry it and return it. They're going to keep it as long as they want then realize that it be more suspicious to take it back and they would be more likely to get caught, so they'd rather throw it away than return it. That makes it stealing.

And even if you actually did return them, taking people's clothes and wearing them is a gross violation of privacy on the same level as a peeping tom.

I just read in another thread "its not helping the image of crossdressers"

Get over yourself, the image of a cd won't change for anybody born in my generation and I am only 22. It will take years and a lot more acceptance before people are easily accepted.

If you're not interested in helping the image of CDs, then that acceptance will never come. I'm 35 and I pass pretty well, and when I do get read I'm still accepted by most people. I don't need a self-loathing CD telling me that there's no point in having any self-respect because people are going to look down on me anyway. I'm disgusted by CDs who don't care about the community's image -- the kind of people who only CD when they're out of town, or when they know they won't be recognized, or post disgusting personal ads all over the net and make us all look like jokes and perverts.

I am sure I am not the only person who hates coming on this site and reading that I am a terrible person for borrowing clothes without permission and that I should just man up (girl up?) and tell people.

Yes, stealing personal items from people who put their trust in you makes you a terrible person.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Ok, so I feel like I'm responding to this thread a lot but thats because it seems to have stuck with me a bit. I've already addressed the stealing clothes issue, so lets go to the other one, the coming out issue.

When I worked for a popular computer company's retail chain, one of the things they preached in employee conflict resolution was to "Always assume positive intent." In other words, try not to go into a feedback session in attack mode, try to think of a way that someone may have actually had good intentions. Because to be honest, I think most of the time people do have good intentions when it comes to day to day stuff.

SO on the coming out issue, I honestly do believe that the more CDers and TG folk who come out the better it will be for all of us, but I would personally never use that as a reason to insist others come out. Coming out is a personal decision that one makes for themselves for their own reasons, and that's how it should be. I'm 28 right now and I came out at 27, so I can remember being a 22 year old and saying, no, I'll never come out, it's just not worth it. So I can't fault others for feeling the same way.

However, having come out now, I feel bad for how negatively I reacted towards all the people who encouraged me to come out when I was younger. I really do think a lot about my view of the world has improved since coming out and people have frequently told me how much happier I seem since then, and just the other night a friend told me how mutual friends have said I was more enjoyable to be around after coming out because I seemed so much more at ease with myself.

There are certainly elements of people on here who do push as part of a strength in numbers game, and as part of a cause, but I think it's safe to assume that most folks have positive intent. That most people who encourage someone to come out are doing it because they know how happy it has made them and they want to spread the light.

[charlotte_sp]

There's a term for this: Internalized Transphobia. It carries with it feelings of shame and self-hatred. Scroll down to the bottom, under "Impact of Discrimination".

Worth quoting imo. I think it's important to emphasize that even if you don't feel targeted by discrimination, this process of internalization can be completely unconscious and lead to stress. Social support is the best way to fight it, and that is the motivation behind encouraging people to come out to at least one close friend.

@JiveTurkeyOnRye: on the last post...that is a rare and impressive attitude D:

[eluuzion]

“Hey, aren’t you kids suppose to be in school?”
http://www.dramabutton.com/

I know it’s a bit late to be weighing in with comments when the party is almost over…But…since most battles are won by attrition, I figured I might have a shot at being the "last one standing"…cause everybody seems to be getting wobbly…lol

Alrighty then…why speak when you can just steal quotes, eh?…

“Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent”
-Eleanor Roosevelt

“It is possible to disagree without being disagreeable.”

“It is better to hold out a hand than to point a finger.”

“Those who truly want something will always find a way.
Those who do not will always find an excuse.”

As I always state to my daughter when she comes looking for “answers“ or asks me “what she should do”.
(My routine reply)…
” Sorry, that’s not my job. My job is to help you generate options. Your job is to decide which option seems like it will provide the best outcome.”

Here’s one option…
I think that “timing is everything” and it certainly applies to the timing of your initial post on this “topic”. Regarding the potential “social suicide” aspects of trying to purchase CD attire…everybody gets a “free pass” this time of year…it is Halloween!!! Everybody knows the real reason Halloween was invented as a holiday (aside from confusing children about “strangers”), was to give CD people an opportunity to buy clothes, wigs, make-up, and accessories without arousing any suspicion!!

You can buy tons of outfits for $20 or less! Almost every type of store stocks up. They sell nails, wigs, outfits, hose, make-up, you name it! Everybody has the same excuse…It’s Halloween! Hell, you can even ask women to borrow their clothes and they agree to it!!! Doesn’t get any better than this!!! It’s like being invisible! Kewl!!! When you pack up all the Halloween stuff the next day, you just hide the clothes for “year round’ fun!

Another Option…
If you feel abused by some members on the forum, you could always go out and smash their pumpkin Halloween night! Nobody will recognize you!

************************
Oops, exsqueeze me for a minute, I see some friends on the plane….”HI Jack!”

A quick reply to the inquiries about the cancelled tournament and tiaras…
We are sorry about the cancellation and I inquired about the tiaras…
I am pleased to announce we did find some door prizes that should work out just fine for all of you…silver, shiny and everything…here is the info…

Quick Instructions for building an AFDB (Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie)
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/build.html

That’s all folks…
“and so it shall be written, and so it shall be dumb”.

[jenni_xx]

Get over yourself, the image of a cd won't change for anybody born in my generation and I am only 22. It will take years and a lot more acceptance before people are easily accepted.

Question is, are you prepared to play a part in helping change people's attitudes in this regard?

I'm not 22, but I was once, and I felt all the worries, fears, frustrations that you have now. I would wager that every single person here has also. So in many respects, we're all in the same boat and can speak from a position of complete understanding. We all find ways to hide, conceal, and yes, downright lie, when it comes to our crossdressing. I borrowed my sister's and mother's clothes without asking when I lived at home. I didn't feel confident enough to go out and buy my own for many years. I don't have a medical condition to overcome, unlike yourself, but that's just it - it's just another obstacle for you to overcome. I will say that I go out and buy all my clothes, and have done for years now - I had to overcome my confidence issues in this regard, and that's exactly what I did. I still sometimes get nervous to this very day, but in many ways, that just adds to the excitement.

I don't think it's a "holier-than-thou" attitude that being's expressed. I rather think it's just others saying, in their own way, that often the biggest fear anyone has lies with themselves. People are contributing and basing their contributions on their own experiences, and that's really all we can do. It's up to you whether you chose to accept others opinions or reject them. But either way, we should never devalue them for really they carry just as much weight as our own. I think no one would demand anything from you, or from anyone for that matter, but then saying that if more of us were to live our lives openly and without fear of prejudice, then maybe that's the only way that acceptance more generally will be attained. People snigger when they see me, and it's not nice, but I will say that any negativity that I've experienced (which in all honestly really isn't that much anyway) pails into complete insignificance when I'm subjected to any positive reaction. So that's what I choose to cling on to.

[Raquel June]

I just love this quote:

Maybe some people need to borrow clothes in order to satisfy their need to cd because they don't have the confidence to go and buy their own

But if crossdressing is a hobby like you say, why are you calling it a need now? And how does that make it OK to take people's stuff without asking?

Maybe some people need to borrow valuables in order to satisfy their need to shoot heroin because they don't have the money to buy their own.

Maybe some people need to borrow from their parents in order to satisfy their need to smoke weed in the basement because they don't have the motivation to get a job.

You're 22. You're a big girl now. Stop stealing your mom's/sister's/aunt's/friend's panties like you were a curious 6-year-old boy.

[Tima]

Get over yourself, the image of a cd won't change for anybody born in my generation and I am only 22. It will take years and a lot more acceptance before people are easily accepted.
I am sure I am not the only person who hates coming on this site and reading that I am a terrible person for borrowing clothes without permission and that I should just man up (girl up?) and tell people.
Situation isn't right to change either of those things right now.
Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?

[SIZE="2"]If I borrow something, the person I’m borrowing from knows I’m borrowing it, OK? Anything other than that is thievery. I understand not having any money to buy things, or being overly shy about going into a store and buying something femme, but I also understand working with what you have, and not exacerbating an already un-explainable compulsion. If your situation “isn’t right to change,” then you should work to effect some change. I don’t have many resources, either, but you need to be responsible for your actions. Can you see me? Look down. Can you see me now?
[/SIZE]

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Here’s one option…
I think that “timing is everything” and it certainly applies to the timing of your initial post on this “topic”. Regarding the potential “social suicide” aspects of trying to purchase CD attire…everybody gets a “free pass” this time of year…it is Halloween!!! Everybody knows the real reason Halloween was invented as a holiday (aside from confusing children about “strangers”), was to give CD people an opportunity to buy clothes, wigs, make-up, and accessories without arousing any suspicion!!

Thanks for bringing that up...don't forget Christmas shopping either. However wearing "regular" women's clothing for Halloween instead of a women's costume can make some people a little suspicious.

Veronica

[MiamiMarie]

Maybe some people need to borrow clothes in order to satisfy their need to cd because they don't have the confidence to go and buy their own, or they fear ordering clothes in case the parcel goes to a family member.

Excuses, excuses. If you really think your CDing is a "hobby" than you can control it and be respectful of other people's property. Come on, it's 2010, you can get parcel delivered anywhere. It's called a Mailboxes Etc. account. What can brown do for you? It can collect packages on your behalf for your convenient pick up. You're only 22, so surely you know how to work the interwebs, youngsta!

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?

Nope, and the view is quite amazing.

[Nick2Nikki]

<verbal irony>But my hobby is fast cars! I had to borrow that Ferrari without the dealership knowing, because there's no way that I could afford one! </verbal irony>.

I know that it's late in the conversation for me to comment, but the OP really has to step back and look at what they said. Just because you feel personally justified in committing a crime, it doesn't make what you do right. And if people posting their opinions on the internet makes you feel insecure about what you're doing, then get off the internet.

[kymmieLorain]

I am to a point maybe it's age or the world around me, I am like why be normal. Yesterday while out with my wife. I kept noticing how everything nowadays is all cookie cutter, cars, homes, etc. I am the one that I want to be differant even if it is in some small way. My cars are anything but cookie cutter. I cannot help my home as I don't own it ( apartment) My self, I guess I wear what I want. If I want to wear a t-shirt and jeans I do. While I haven't gotten the nerve to go Out in femme. I do wear ladies cloths and under garments.

Kymmie

[eluuzion]

Thanks for bringing that up...don't forget Christmas shopping either. However wearing "regular" women's clothing for Halloween instead of a women's costume can make some people a little suspicious.
Veronica

Yep, especially when you are racing across their front yard with their neighbors' pumpkins under each arm on Halloween night. I am not sure why that is, I guess people are just naturally paranoid. It is just one of those mysteries in life, like crossdressing...

[Traci Elizabeth]

Yikes! Ouch! I thought opinions and differences where what made the world spin or is that gravity...I forget! Thank goodness I am a transsexual and live my womanhood 24/7!

[Raquel June]

I don't really care to embrace the opinions of someone who is angry because of their own fear, uses this fear to justify stealing, and uses their pathetic outlook on TG acceptance to justify utter apathy.

Sure, opinions and differences make the world go 'round, but accepting everyone else's attitudes and behavior because we should "celebrate diversity" is asinine.

After all, rapists just have different opinions about intimacy. Murderers just have a different opinion about the value of life.