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Thread: Crossdresser or Transgender or ?

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    '..',,~ Inna's Avatar
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    Crossdresser or Transgender or ?

    I know that this topic may get us into heated debate but heated debate is good in good intentions. I often read a post about a crossdresser who solely identifies with just crossdressing and that is that, to later read same person finally embracing idea of something more happening in their life. The desire to venture outside of norm and present as an opposite sex in it self is predecessor to transgender condition. To express femininity by male is to directly come into embrace with the opposite set of ingredients and therefore to state the societal dislike and rebel against masculine character. Its just the clothes you say, no, it is always more than that, the image of femininity and assimilation with feminine form. I personally feel that all gender flux specific tendencies will eventually surface as transgender and the only difference will be in an individual finally coming to terms with nagging force within or such individual resisting this urge until his demise. So, I put forth this question: can anyone prove that Crossdressing isn't a predecessor to transgenderism and a valid ingredient in Transgenderism since inception?
    Last edited by Inna; 10-19-2010 at 08:48 PM.

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    Transgender is an umbrella term created by the community for:
    -Transexuals
    -Crossdressers
    -Transvestites
    -Drag Kings
    -Drag Queens
    -Gender Queer People
    -Androgynous People
    -Effeminate Men
    -Butch Women

    and anyone else who does not specifically fit the social norms of being gender male or gender female.

    So to answer your question, if your a crossdresser, you are transgendered.

  3. #3
    Silver Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    No, there are crossdressers who dress only for excitement and, when not crossdressed, live a normal male life. Never a thought of being transgendered, as you put it, I assume you mean transitionig to live full-time as a woman. (Rosuto got it right: transgender is a big umbrella term).

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    Senior Citizen Mary Morgan's Avatar
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    No, no one has been able to prove much of anything although there is no shortage of theories. For me, it is enough to say I am what I am. I've always wanted to be a girl and I never will be. The best I can do is try as hard as I can within the framework of a life lived. I crossdress, but it is by no means all there is to me.
    Last edited by Mary Morgan; 10-19-2010 at 10:59 PM.

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    Member Karinsamatha's Avatar
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    Rosuto is correct. Transgendered is a term that more or less coveres all facits of who we are, and where we fit.
    My self I would like to transition in the future. I am at the point in my journey that I find presenting as a man to be exhausting and stressfull. This has occured over a 7 year time frame. I had repressed a portion of my self that came to the surface over the last seven years.
    There are people who are content putting on a few items of clothes for a few hours and being done with it for days or weeks - they may never progress beyond that level. Others have gone way beyond it to surgery and full transition.
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    Member Kelly Greene's Avatar
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    I don't believe we are predestined to find the same end on our journey we may start at a similar place but we each must follow the road as it unfold in front of us.
    crossdressing is an end for some of us and a beginning for others.
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    Silver Member renee k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexia Elliot View Post
    I know that this topic may get us into heated debate but heated debate is good in good intentions. I often read a post about a crossdresser who solely identifies with just crossdressing and that is that, to later read same person finally embracing idea of something more happening in their life. The desire to venture outside of norm and present as an opposite sex in it self is predecessor to transgender condition. To express femininity by male is to directly come into embrace with the opposite set of ingredients and therefore to state the societal dislike and rebel against masculine character. Its just the clothes you say, no, it is always more than that, the image of femininity and assimilation with feminine form. I personally feel that all gender flux specific tendencies will eventually surface as transgender and the only difference will be in an individual finally coming to terms with nagging force within or such individual resisting this urge until his demise. So, I put forth this question: can anyone prove that Crossdressing isn't a predecessor to transgenderism and a valid ingredient in Transgenderism since inception?
    In my situation, I can't prove it and certainly believe that there is more to it than putting on a dress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Morgan View Post
    No, no one has been able to prove much of anything although there are no shortage of theories. For me, it is enough to say I am what I am. I've always wanted to be a girl and I never will be. The best I can do is try as hard as I can within the framework of a life lived. I crossdress, but it is by no means all there is to me.
    Mary, I totally agree with you. I've walked down the same road.

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    mini kilted chick t-girlxsophie's Avatar
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    I too progressed after divorce to dressing much,much more till it was all consuming,that was until recently when my wife and I had a heartfelt discussion about our life,my femme self had taken over so that my male self took a back seat.my Wife missed him,so now she gets to see him a little more and thats the crux of the matter if i Woke up in the morning transitioned would I be happy and content,no I would miss aspects of him that would stop me from transitioning.Does that make me a crossdresser and no more,no I still feel I am Transgender-thats the way I see myself,am sure others will think different

    Sophie
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    Senior Age Member sissystephanie's Avatar
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    Going by Rosuto's definition of Trangendered, I guess that I am Transgendered!! I have been a CD for over 70 years, and have never had any desire to actually be a woman! I simply just like to wear their clothes! When my late wife was still alive, she could make me look like a GG!! I cannot do that and don't even try. I still dress enfemme, but go out looking just like the male that I am!! As long as I am decent and observe the law, I can wear what I want!! And I do!! I ate dinner tonight in a nice restaurant dressed totally enfemme. But of course no wig or makeup. Just a guy in a skirt and nice top, with the appropiate under garments and shoes. I do that almost every day!!
    Stephanie

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    SO of IrishGG Cassandra Lynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosuto View Post
    Transgender is an umbrella term created by the community for:
    -Transexuals
    -Crossdressers
    -Transvestites
    -Drag Kings
    -Drag Queens
    -Gender Queer People
    -Androgynous People
    -Effeminate Men
    -Butch Women

    and anyone else who does not specifically fit the social norms of being gender male or gender female.

    So to answer your question, if your a crossdresser, you are transgendered.
    Ditto for me, and i think those that refuse to accept this are not in complete acceptance with themselves. There is no reason to be afraid of the term transgenderism.
    People need to get past those 5 letters at the beginning. The term IMO is a spectrum with the "i'm just a CD at one end, and the "was born the wrong gender" at the other and each individual falls along it somewhere in between. In fact, most of us are on a continous progression from where we started.
    But that is just my perspective.
    mj (Cassie)
    Serenity through Femininity
    Life isn't about waiting out the storm.....it's about learning to dance in the rain.

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    When I first joined this forum, I refused to accept the term "Transgender " today I perfer it more than cross dresser.. Although it is an umbrella term it doen't bother me anymore. Whats so bad about it?

    These are examples compareing transgender to other terms

    You can be Gay and crossdress? Ok , I think you could have any sexual preferance and crossdress .. The question is, does that make you a transgender? I believe it can just because you are attracted to the same sex shouldn't automatically remove you from being a trangender. There are also Gay people who dress appropriate to thier gender.

    Now I am in no way dumping on anyones sexual preferance and as it says below I am no expert either..But through ignorance ( my own ) I related the term transgender to being a Gay or a Bi cder.. I was corrected and I was wrong I would also like to add I have NO predjudice to my Gay sisters here..We are all in this together.

    Like a few here have mentioned my dressing grew after my seperation from my wife, I have grown to accept my Fem side and have no desires to futher it BUT I do dress more often.. I consider it Emulating a female rather that acting as one due to being in the closet for the most part. I feel the differance between acting as woman and emulating one is in the desire of the Cder. Emulating a woman is a cder who is only into the visual, not going out usally alone and in the closet ( no saying all are this way but I am ) Acting as a woman is Visual , going out dressed and doing things that are accoiated to what women do, shopping , getting nails done, hair dyed etc
    I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.

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    All this talk about labels... here's the one I prefer.

    Me.

    Let me explain. I am a crossdresser, that is true. Would I like to transition? I don't know, somedays the answer is yes, other days no. Even as a little kid, I never fit neatly into any one group. I was never the popular kid, didn't fit in with the "nerdy" kids, I was just basically what you'd call a loner. As I've gotten older, I have come to accept this as well as my dressing. Maybe others need a label to define themselves, and I'm fine with that, but I am just fine being myself.

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    Consummate Traveveller Patricia Johnson's Avatar
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    I have checked myself periodically to see if I am a transexual or a crossdresser and I know I am a crossdresser. I don't see myself as a woman on the inside. I think that is the necessary component to have. I love getting dressed and trying to perfect the "Fab" side, but I also don't want to end my so called "Drab" aspect either. I enjoy being me: a guy who loves dressing up and what that entails. I never ever want to physically remove or alter who I am to match internally who I feel that I am because inwardly and outwardly I am in sync. I am a guy inside and out, I just love 4 inch heels. LOL
    Now being well- Heeled means so much more!!!


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    GerriJerry Gerrijerry's Avatar
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    All I consider myself is a person. You can add a label if you want but does it change anything.
    You want to call yourself a cd fine think you are TS fine. All the labels are for is when someone else wants to put you in a fixed catagory. I say if you are happy the way you are then ok with me. If you are not then you may need some counseling. Either way I will support the person you are and the person you want to be. This thinking that you have to fit into one label or another makes many upset so why even think in those terms.
    No photo for now soon to be a new photo.

  15. #15
    Member charlotte_sp's Avatar
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    Seconding rosuto...transgender is often used as an umbrella term for any kind of gender nonconformity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexia Elliot View Post
    So, I put forth this question: can anyone prove that Crossdressing isn't a predecessor to transgenderism and a valid ingredient in Transgenderism since inception?
    Based on the context of your post, I think this question is a re-hash of "aren't all cross-dressers just closet transsexuals?", and it's disingenuous to present it as anything else.

    While this may be accurate for some or even most cross-dressers (I went through this phase as well), this question is pretty irritating for two reasons:

    1. It invalidates the experiences of the people who really do not have any desire to transition, based on nothing besides personal or anecdotal experience.

    Maybe they are in the minority, or maybe most of them stopped posting because of tiresome BS like this, but please respect their identity. The fact that there are some or many cross-dressers in denial in your personal experience does not erase the existence of male-identified cross-dressers.

    2. This question reinforces the idea that there is only one way to be trans:

    "You must take hormones. You must have GRS. You must do x, y, and z. Anything else is not valid."

    Implicitly, it also reinforces the strict gender roles that we should be fighting:

    "You cannot be a male who engages in some feminine behavior. If you do anything feminine, you must be a closeted trans woman. Transition now!"

    The question posed to specific individuals is usually fine when it's based on observations about their behavior, but when it's posited as a universal truth as it is here, it is almost always self-righteous and disrespectful. If you are genuinely concerned about the mental toll closeting and rejection of one's female gender identity have on cross-dressers, then express that sentiment through sharing your experiences instead of broad, condescending generalizations.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexia Elliot View Post
    I personally feel that all gender flux specific tendencies will eventually surface as transgender and the only difference will be in an individual finally coming to terms with nagging force within or such individual resisting this urge until his demise. So, I put forth this question: can anyone prove that Crossdressing isn't a predecessor to transgenderism and a valid ingredient in Transgenderism since inception?
    I will assume that you meant to write transsexual since transgender covers all behaviour that transcends the bounds of the gender binary stereotype.

    I cannot agree that all gender flux behaviour will eventually lead to transsexuality since there is a growing body of evidence that transsexuality is biological. Unfortunately, the most convincing evidence has to be taken post mortem so I am in no hurry to provide that from myself

    Can cross-dressing precede transsexuality? IMNSHO no because I believe that you are either born TS or you are not.

    Can cross-dressing precede the acceptance that you are TS? Most definitely yes. When I finally gave in to the need to wear the right clothing, I was still fighting the fact that I am TS.

    Can cross-dressing precede the decision to seek help for transition? Again yes, either as in my case or where the person has circumstances that weigh against an early transition.

    Is cross-dressing a valid ingredient in being transsexual? This, to me, depends upon your standpoint. It did not make me transsexual but rather was an outworking of my gradual acceptance of who I am. To many around me, I probably still appear to be cross-dressing, but is this the case given that I am in my RLE?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Morgan View Post
    No, no one has been able to prove much of anything although there is no shortage of theories. For me, it is enough to say I am what I am. I've always wanted to be a girl and I never will be. The best I can do is try as hard as I can within the framework of a life lived. I crossdress, but it is by no means all there is to me.
    I'm not so sure as you that there is no proof of anything in this matter (see above). You are at a great place when you can say as you did "I am what I am", but it makes me sad when you say that you can never be what you have always wanted to be - a girl.

    Quote Originally Posted by jessica renee View Post
    All this talk about labels... here's the one I prefer.

    Me.

    Let me explain. I am a crossdresser, that is true. Would I like to transition? I don't know, somedays the answer is yes, other days no. Even as a little kid, I never fit neatly into any one group. I was never the popular kid, didn't fit in with the "nerdy" kids, I was just basically what you'd call a loner. As I've gotten older, I have come to accept this as well as my dressing. Maybe others need a label to define themselves, and I'm fine with that, but I am just fine being myself.
    I applaud anyone who just wants to be themself. There are differences in our experiences, however, and labels are a useful way to classify those differences provided that they are not used to divide.

    You cross dress and (most of the time) that is enough for you - we have in common that we wear what society would say is clothing for the opposite gender.

    I was born in the wrong body, but have only recently come to admit the full force of what that means. We are both part of the same family although not identical.

    When we concentrate on that which unites us rather than that which divides us, we become stronger. On the other hand, you and I have different support needs and the knowledge that I am TS helps others to understand my needs. For that reason I do not reject the label out of hand.

    When I talk of support, I do not mean acting as a mutual admiration society - I have been glad when people have pointed out that something I said or was about to do was mistaken. That too is support.


    Quote Originally Posted by charlotte_sp View Post
    tiresome BS
    I don't think that categorising a question as "tiresome BS" is in any way helpful to anyone other than the person writing those words.

    The OP introduces the topic by saying she has read several people who claimed to be nothing more than CD and later realised that they were more. This then gives the context of the question that you describe as
    Quote Originally Posted by charlotte_sp View Post
    broad, condescending generalizations.
    I believe this to be a genuine question borne out of valid observations and a desire to understand and therefore cannot agree when you say that
    Quote Originally Posted by charlotte_sp View Post
    This question reinforces the idea that there is only one way to be trans:

    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 10-20-2010 at 05:05 AM. Reason: Avoid multipost
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  17. #17
    Aspiring Member Jeanna's Avatar
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    Question: Can anyone prove that Crossdressing isn't a predecessor to transgenderism and a valid ingredient in Transgenderism since inception?[

    Crossdressing and transgender are 2 different things. Crossdressing is just that, Hi my name is Bill and I wear a dress compared to My name is Jill and I hate wearing drab.I understand exactly where you are coming from and it makes sense. I'm certainly beyond crossdressing and it only started out that way. Now I have a fem name, walk and act like a lady.Am I just a crossdresser? Wearing womens clothes is on thing that can lead into someone taking it further. We can program ourselves to want to be more and more fem. People can be programmed to accept that it's ok to kill other human beings,porn can program the mind in evil ways as well, so why is it so hard to think that people can't be programmed to become the other sex even if done unintentionally? It starts with clothes,,,,,

    Jeanna

  18. #18
    Aspiring Member msniki48's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Morgan View Post
    No, no one has been able to prove much of anything although there is no shortage of theories. For me, it is enough to say I am what I am. I've always wanted to be a girl and I never will be. The best I can do is try as hard as I can within the framework of a life lived. I crossdress, but it is by no means all there is to me.
    Mary, what beautiful words to live by. [ I think i must do a re-think]

    PS: love your avatar.

    hugs msniki48

    Alexia, this is very thought provoking subject for me, and i can see....others too.


    As some have said there are definately some of the girls who truly do this for pleaseure and sometimes sexual gratification. There are , however, so many of us, that cross dress purely because it is the only avenue for us at this time in our lives....whether we know it or not. it was not till i went to therapy that i was able to answer some of the questions and actually embrace who and what i am. yet i dressed in private all my life. So, there might not be conclusive proof of what you say, but i think the theory is in the right direction.

    Hugs
    Last edited by Nigella; 10-20-2010 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Merged consecutive posts

  19. #19
    Silver Member linda allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patricia Johnson View Post
    I have checked myself periodically to see if I am a transexual or a crossdresser and I know I am a crossdresser. I don't see myself as a woman on the inside. I think that is the necessary component to have. I love getting dressed and trying to perfect the "Fab" side, but I also don't want to end my so called "Drab" aspect either. I enjoy being me: a guy who loves dressing up and what that entails. I never ever want to physically remove or alter who I am to match internally who I feel that I am because inwardly and outwardly I am in sync. I am a guy inside and out, I just love 4 inch heels. LOL
    That pretty well sums it up for me also. I've never felt I was born in the wrong body, I think and act like a male, I have male hobbies, and I don't really like many female pastimes such as shopping or collecting trinkets.

    I do like to dress and try to look like a female and I love the feeling of having breasts even though they are not real. If I could have a female body, that would be great, but I would still think and act like a male and obviously, that would create lots of problems.
    [SIGPIC]http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=82706&dateline=137762 0356[/SIGPIC]Linda

  20. #20
    Silver Member AKAMichelle's Avatar
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    I can't prove it but I have seen some who are just cd'ers. I just don't fit that tight definition since I spend so much time as Michelle
    Michelle

  21. #21
    Member Sophie_C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosuto View Post
    Transgender is an umbrella term created by the community for:
    -Transexuals
    -Crossdressers
    -Transvestites
    -Drag Kings
    -Drag Queens
    -Gender Queer People
    -Androgynous People
    -Effeminate Men
    -Butch Women

    and anyone else who does not specifically fit the social norms of being gender male or gender female.

    So to answer your question, if your a crossdresser, you are transgendered.
    Exactly what is this according to, other than yourself?

    I only consider men with an inherent female identity and women with an inherent male identity to be transgender, and for everything I have ever read in terms of the medical community and law, for the matter, it's seen in the same way.

    I do not consider fetishistic crossdressers/transvestites who do it for a sexual high, gay boys who like to put on war paint for kicks (drag queens / kings), androgynous people (so David Bowie is transgender now? LOL), effeminate men and butch women (a sizable part of the gay community who would definitely disagree) to be transgender since all of that has ZERO to do with gender identity.

    You could put all of them in a big bucket called "trans" but that is not the same as "transgender." No.

    Now, to answer the initial question, crossdressing can be one of the early steps in one coming to an awareness that they have an incongruent gender identity. It also can be for all sorts of different reasons, having nothing to do with it. I have no doubt there are plenty of crossdressers who are transgendered that put the breaks on self-understanding due to fears, family, loved ones, etc; but that doesn't mean that there aren't crossdressers who are definitely with a congruent gender identity who just do it for kicks.

  22. #22
    Super Moderator Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Sophie, If you substitute the word transsexual for transgender in your definition then you are right, but only then.

    You say that trans is not the same as transgender and claim medical authority for that. Perhaps you should tell the UK's National Health Service that they don't know what they are talking about when they define the terms on http://www.nhs.uk/livewell/transheal...soverview.aspx
    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 10-20-2010 at 10:41 AM.
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  23. #23
    '..',,~ Inna's Avatar
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    Lesson learned

    Thank you ladies for your heartfelt thoughts, as I set out to understand our intricate conditions which in every case are as individual as individuals them selves, one specific idea struck me deep. We often shrug when thought of a label and hate the ideals of such because we ourselves feel grander than just a selfless condition. When I think of someone in strictly intellectual means I label the individual into a box, I feel this is what our mind does intrinsically. When we learn in college we box information into retrievable storage bin. But when I approach a person with loving embrace and leave my intellect behind, I see all the colors of the rainbow light up and look into his/hers soul as they truly are, a loving, unique person with wealth of experience and world of emotions to share. At that point all the labels disappear and CD or TS or whatever doesn't mean a thing. I feel that in order to truly embrace this kind of relationship, we must look into each others eyes and physically be present to have this level of understanding, internet however advanced and helpful tool will remain as artificial of a tool as labeling into boxes is. We can learn a lot from internet but I can we truly see the other person as they are?

  24. #24
    Aspiring Member TiffanyTgirl's Avatar
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    My input would be that some are transgendered and cd'ing is just a stop on the road. However, I think that many of the girls here are evidence enough to prove that cd'ing is just that cd'ing. They don't transition or play with hormones. They just work on their look and presentation. And they can take it off and leave.

  25. #25
    Silver Member Loni's Avatar
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    I do not know were i truly fit into this, but i am a male and will always be such. i love woman so much i try to look like one. i dress most of the time when not at work, even when presenting in male mode i have womens clothing on. (simple jeans and top, and shoes). i still do have some male things here, mostly cause my mom keeps buying me T-shirts. but i can not remember the last time i wore a pair of men's jeans.
    I guess this puts me square in the middle of being a cross dresser, as i will not have srs. nor will i stop buying skirts/dresses, just love them on me so much.
    but if only i could loose 100 pounds. a couple inches off my shoulders, and add a inch to my hips, and get a foot shorter. (dream on)
    but i do what i can with what i got. and try to enjoy every moment of life that i can. (but then i have had a couple things happen in my life...that almost ended it).
    call me a cross dress or transgendered, to me it does not matter...just do not call me late to dinner. :-)

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