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Thread: Crossdresser or Transgender or ?

  1. #26
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexia Elliot View Post
    So, I put forth this question: can anyone prove that Crossdressing isn't a predecessor to transgenderism and a valid ingredient in Transgenderism since inception?
    First, I think you're confusing the term "transgender" with "transsexual". As others have stated, transgender is an umbrella term for anyone that crosses the gender divide.

    To answer your question, I'd look at available statistics. How many TGs go on to live full time (or near FT), or take hormones, or wish to transition? Few, in comparison to the TG community as a whole. And this doesn't make those who've achieved inner gender balance, fetichists.
    Reine

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexia Elliot
    The desire to venture outside of norm and present as an opposite sex in it self is predecessor to transgender condition. To express femininity by male is to directly come into embrace with the opposite set of ingredients and therefore to state the societal dislike and rebel against masculine character.
    [SIZE="2"]An “opposite set of ingredients” according to what you have chosen to emulate, I would add. I do not wish to embrace all varieties of femininity, according to an individual’s definition, and there are many to choose from. The ongoing rebellion against masculine character is something that I discuss often around here. Did you know, Alexia, that some males dress as females yet remain males in all but appearance? I find this very hard to understand, since I, like you, believe that crossdressing is merely a manifestation of something far deeper, i.e. trangenderism. Venturing outside the norm is my raison d'être[/SIZE]

    So, I put forth this question: can anyone prove that Crossdressing isn't a predecessor to transgenderism and a valid ingredient in Transgenderism since inception?
    [SIZE="2"]Well, I’ve bumped into a few characters on this site that were definitely not on the road to transgenderism, yet they would crossdress. These individuals would come crashing into the site thusly: “Hello! Like panties! Don’t know why! Confused! NOT GAY! Like girls! Need a bra! Won’t wear wig! Let’s talk!” and etc… You can argue that this person is transgendered to a degree, but they don’t wish to contemplate the idea. You may put on the clothes, wonder what’s going on, then look for some like-minded individuals, even find a place like this, but no genuine “conversation” ensues. Others dip their toe in the water, then withdraw – I’ve seen many posts where someone will say, “I’m not comfortable with this,” or “I’ve come to the conclusion that this is not for me.” They leave, dismissing our “community” as superfluous, inexplicable, or worse. I contend that those individuals are not transgendered in the least, but I’m only going on what has been written and submitted – who knows what is actually going on in someone’s life. I can't prove anything...
    [/SIZE]

  3. #28
    A Brave Freestyler JohnH's Avatar
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    I myself who like to wear women's clothing obviously am not transgendered [except in a very loose sense-(edited addition)]. I haven't even adopted a feminine name but retain my masculine name of John. At no time do I imagine myself as being a woman, and I would much rather be called "Sir" instead of "Ma'am" and be referred to by masculine third person pronouns, e.g., "he" instead of "she" no matter what I am wearing. I like to think that I am a freestyler instead of a crossdresser,

    I do have natural breasts as it runs in my family.

    I took the Cognati (?) test and there was a question of when you decided you were born of the wrong gender (dysphoria) and I was not able to answer that question truthfully since there was no option for "Never".

    Obviously everybody is different. Of course I'm on the opposite side from someone who would have the potential to transition.
    Last edited by JohnH; 10-20-2010 at 08:48 PM. Reason: Added clause
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  4. #29
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    I respect your position, JohnH, but just out of curiosity, why do you like to dress in women's clothes?

    Also, it is my understanding that "transgender" means crossing a gender boundary, even if it is only in appearance. There are many ways to cross it and not everyone who does so relates in part or in full with the opposite gender's ID.

    Threads like these are interesting, but difficult since some people either are not aware, or they do not want to recognize the generally accepted definitions of some of the basic terms.
    Reine

  5. #30
    Carole carhill2mn's Avatar
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    " So, I put forth this question: can anyone prove that Crossdressing isn't a predecessor to transgenderism and a valid ingredient in Transgenderism since inception?"
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Labels usually are not adequate to properly describe someone as the label will likely have different meanings to different people. Labels also create a sort of "box" that can be limiting.
    What would "prove that crossdressing isn't a predecessor to transgenderism"? If the label transgender is a term that includes crossdressing then, crossdressing is a part of transgenderism and does not "lead" to it.
    Hugs, Carole

  6. #31
    Kay Fox karezza's Avatar
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    I definitely agree that some people crossdress without coming near to, much less crossing, the transgender line. I've met a few. They are firmly in the male mindset, thinking like males and acting like males, except for the clothes. I would call them crossdressing fetishists; definitely not transgendered. But, in my experience, they are very much a minority. Most of us feel something deeper when we dress. On some level we identify with the female gender. How far we take it is usually determined by life circumstances. Many here have responded that their transgender identity surged into overdrive when they divorced and were able to express their feminine side without restraint. Others never had that experience.

    Last week, my wife asked me to explain the connection between crossdressing and my sexual identity. She had been talking with a mutual friend who said he enjoyed wearing women's lingerie, but never wanted to dress full-on on a regular basis. I explained that he's an occasional crossdresser for fun and kink, but I'm transgendered. My core sexual identity is feminine. I don't have to crossdress to know that, but crossdressing reinforces it. Likewise, feeling sexually female reinforces my desire to crossdress.

    I was out to dinner alone en drab recently. I struck up a conversation with a woman at the bar and somehow the topic of my gender orientation came up. To her, I appeared to be a regular guy. I told her that I crossdress and showed her some pictures. When I explained by sexual identification as female, she was incredulous. I just smiled and said this is so satisfying, I'd never go back to being a regular guy.

    I also agree that transexuality is a different subject. Whereas transgenderism involves the psychological identification with the opposite gender, or other forms of gender fluidity, true transexuality seems to be more genetic. I think of it as a transgendered mind vs. a transexual brain.

    As for me, crossdressing was indeed the first step toward a transgender awakening. I started as a fetishist, but the experience touched something very deep in me, and as time went on, I realized that I really do identify psychologically, and sexually, with the opposite gender. However, I have never felt that I was born in the wrong body. For most of my life I was perfectly content being male. The awakening of my transgendered mind has just opened up a vast side of myself that was dormant. In a sense I'm both genders, although most happy in the feminine. I dress every moment I can, being andro when I can't be fully en femme. But I don't completely reject my male side. I just find it remarkably boring by comparison
    Last edited by karezza; 10-20-2010 at 03:26 PM.
    "The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

  7. #32
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carhill2mn View Post
    What would "prove that crossdressing isn't a predecessor to transgenderism"? If the label transgender is a term that includes crossdressing then, crossdressing is a part of transgenderism and does not "lead" to it.
    I may be wrong, but I took the OP as suggesting that CDers (other than those who CD for purely sexual reasons perhaps) are in denial about being TS. I've read the question before, here and in other forums: "What's the difference between a CD & a TS? Three years". I think it's a question that circulates mostly in TS circles.

    I think that generally someone who is TS has just as much difficulty in understanding CDs as the GGs do. Unless you're a CDer, it's hard to understand the concept of dual gender, since we were mostly all raised in a binary gender world.

    Also, what makes the discussion confusing is that some people refuse to agree on basic terminology, so that we can all understand each other. I gather there are many people here who think that someone who is transgender is in between being a crossdresser and a transsexual.
    Reine

  8. #33
    Great Legs liz.thomas's Avatar
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    I've always wodered if there is a real difference of the words Crossdressers and Transvestites. The wiki definition doesn't seem to uncover anything for me. Is there a difference or are these just generalities?

    Liz

  9. #34
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    As i said in my post, i think many are tripped up on the Trans part. Being Transsexual and transitioning toward the correct gender has that degree of finality. The "crossing" to them seems to have that element of extremeness(?).

    I still can't help but see a sense of fear and unacceptance in that need to deny the the TG term.

    And many here don't strive for total duality, so therefore they are merely Crossdressers. Wonder what their reaction would be to the term transdresser?

    Reine, I liked your response to JohnH's post, and while i'm not trying to muddy the OPs waters, what do we do about the "why wear the clothing?" question. Many seem to draw their Crossdresser vs. Transgender line at the wig, make-up and shapewear level. Are we incorrect in thinking there has to be some sense of femininity being reached for in "just the clothing", seems there would have to be some need for the gender "crossing".

    mj (Cassie)
    Last edited by Cassandra Lynn; 10-20-2010 at 06:42 PM.

  10. #35
    Kay Fox karezza's Avatar
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    Liz,

    I think the terms transvestite and crossdresser are essentially interchangeable. However, they do have subtle differences in interpretation. "Transvestite" is an older term that usually implies a fetishistic or kinky sexual component. "Crossdresser" is a newer term that usually does not imply a sexual component. In Wikipedia, they say Transvestite was coined in 1910 and was linked to sexual arousal, gay, bi, or heterosexual. They say Crossdresser came into use in the 1970's by heterosexual males who were not fetishistic and were unhappy with being labeled TV.

    In curent usage, it is hard to tell the difference unless you ask the person. In broad generalities, someone identified as TV might be more into the sexual or kink side of things, whereas someone identified as CD might (or might not) be more sexually conventional. But people are all over the map in the terms they use to describe themselves, their gender identification and sexual orientation, so you can't assume anything from the terminology.
    "The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

  11. #36
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    Hello Alexia!
    On the contrary, I believe that all of us here who dress are transgendered to some degree. Regular males would not be dressing in feminine clothes at all. I also see in myself that when I start dressing on a regular basis (3-4 days running) that I begin to yearn to dress this way 24/7. I start thinking who I am and how my life may be more fulfilled if I started looking into transitioning. I have come to realize that I am a transgendered individual that is married, that loves woman and also loves to be one. Since my life has been lived as a male, it is best that I control my urges to just those that are important and necessary to my life. After a few days of returning to my regular male life (job, husband, father) I can keep all the urges in line and controlled.
    Charlie

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsMjSerene View Post
    Reine, Are we incorrect in thinking there has to be some sense of femininity being reached for in "just the clothing", seems there would have to be some need for the gender "crossing".
    I agree that for some CDs, it is about getting in touch with a degree of femininity, even if it is merely enjoying the luxurious feel and the wonderful colors and styles of the fabrics. Yet like JohnH, these same CDs enjoy being men, they solidly identify as men, and they would never even wish to be identified as women. Someone who feels this way may develop it further down the road, or he may not.

    But, this still doesn't mean that a gender barrier has not been crossed, hence the appropriateness of using the term "transgender" for everyone ... even those who merely enjoy the clothes.

    Last edited by ReineD; 10-20-2010 at 08:04 PM.
    Reine

  13. #38
    A Brave Freestyler JohnH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    I respect your position, JohnH, but just out of curiosity, why do you like to dress in women's clothes?
    I just like how they look and feel in addition to the usual men's clothes that I wear. I would like to go out to symphony concerts with a black velvet dress in place of the usual boring coat and tie with that "bird breast" look. Also my wife does not wear skirts, dresses, and heels so I take up the slack! I also have much longer hair than she does.

    A skirt does not have that wedge of cloth against the boys downstairs and it's cooler than shorts in hot weather. A dress also has the comfort of not having the binding in the waist. Needless to say that I have no use whatsoever for tucking!

    I do not wear any women's shorts or pants - if I wear any women's clothing it will be skirts or dresses.

    I do have some panties I came across while I was sorting through boxes left by my ex-wife, so I do wear them. I certainly would not have gone out and bought them since I have some completely serviceable men's briefs. I do not wear makeup or any bras, shapewear, or wigs. Oftentimes I do have my toenails painted.

    After reading through the responses I guess I could say in a very loose sense that when I wear women's clothing that I am transgendered - however, I do not identify myself at anytime as a woman.
    Last edited by JohnH; 10-20-2010 at 08:39 PM.
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  14. #39
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Thanks for the response, John!
    Reine

  15. #40
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    As deep as the ocean

    Oh girls, responses galore! I am truly overwhelmed with variety of feelings you are shearing. From anger at classification to embracing idea of transgender being all encompassing. In my original post I have used transgender and not transsexual because I have heard often crossdressers distinctly not associating crossdressing with transgenderism. However throughout this discussion and mention of transsexualism I am starting to see much broader spectrum of variety and yet similarity within our family. I too have lived parts of my life as male and only male, not because I wanted to but because circumstances drove her out of me into deepest depths of my sole. I distinctly remember forgetting of who I was and pushing through life with masculinity as driving force. There I have experienced living as a warrior, true masculine, full on male and there was not a chance then for me to even look at the possibility of feminine anything. I fully embraced masculinity and ventured into mans world and denied true self and denied Alexia. Those were darkest times of my life, but I have learned the meaning of masculine and there was no room for any softness, flamboyancy, or thought of wearing anything remotely resembling feminine anything. From there I take my ideas of crossdressing in any shape or form being out of masculine character and therefore being a transgendered activity. Again I stress it is my sole observation and I reserve the right to be wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I am on the quest to understand my self and through which I know I have denied my self lots of times and denied Alexia's existence. Through my own denial I understand that it is a common theme throughout our struggle and a necessary evil we must conquer to finally arrive at who we really are.
    If I imagine our condition as an ocean, some of us are satisfied with the beach and comforts it provides, safe on the sands and safe near the shore, then some like to explore bit further to feel the waters envelop their being but safe enough to still see the land close by, and then there are those who will stand nothing but ocean it self surrounding their soul from horizon to horizon and as deep as it is vast. But after all, we are enjoying the same waters!
    Last edited by Inna; 10-21-2010 at 08:53 AM.

  16. #41
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    Also, what makes the discussion confusing is that some people refuse to agree on basic terminology, so that we can all understand each other. I gather there are many people here who think that someone who is transgender is in between being a crossdresser and a transsexual.
    The OP posed a good question, and it has been answered: no. JohnH tells why in his case, and others like me who dress for pleasure identify as male, just like to dress up occasionally, and will never transition or identify as feminine.
    But this discussion, like many others here, got sidetracked by failure to agree on the definition of terms. Maybe we need a page, a glossary, so that FOR THE PURPOSE OF DISCUSSION, we can use terms with some agreement of meaning.
    To me, crossdresser and transvestite are the same. trans (latin) = cross(englsh) vest (latin) = dress/clothing (english)
    Since my dressing is fetish-based, others would call me a transvestite, but I prefer to be called a crossdresser. It's splitting hairs. I think that those who want to call me a transvestite wish to reserve the term crossdresser for themselves, to separate dress-for-pleasure dressers from gender identity dressers who are not or not yet transsexuals. Those who have evolved or progressed to transgendered, leaving us knuckle-dragging mere crossdressers behind. But for the purpose of discussion, I would agree to use the term that best defines me, if others will too.
    Othewise, good discussions will keep getting off point.

  17. #42
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexia Elliot View Post
    So, I put forth this question: can anyone prove that Crossdressing isn't a predecessor to transgenderism and a valid ingredient in Transgenderism since inception?
    For some of us it is, for some it is not. The difficulty lies in attempting to make one theory fit everyone, when the reasons and causes for crossdressing can be varied.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  18. #43
    A Brave Freestyler JohnH's Avatar
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    While I don't think of myself as a woman at any time, I still have a feminine side that is expressed in my long hair, painted toenails, and the desire to wear skirts, dresses, and heels. It's interesting that my wife has none of those attributes and urges since she has short hair, does not wear nail polish, and wears only pants (other than sleepwear) and flat shoes. She was raised to be like a man, but she uses makeup and I don't. In the future I may just experiment with makeup.

    [Added statements] - I'm a lot happier when I can express my feminine desires - I'm not depressed as I was when I suppressed my feminine side. I have been able to lose weight when I quite suppressing my feminine side. As I lose weight my breasts and hips become more prominent - I no longer am just a blob of fat and I am starting to get a shape - I would like to get my waist down to 35 inches, so I will have the dimensions of 44-35-42 without any shapeware or padding. My blood pressure has gone from 160/100 (no medication - high weight) to 120/80 (with medication and lower weight) and my resting heart rate has gone from 85 to 65 beats per minute.
    Last edited by JohnH; 10-21-2010 at 06:50 PM.
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  19. #44
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleScott View Post
    But this discussion, like many others here, got sidetracked by failure to agree on the definition of terms. Maybe we need a page, a glossary, so that FOR THE PURPOSE OF DISCUSSION, we can use terms with some agreement of meaning.
    I wholeheartedly agree! Not agreeing on terminology does make discussions difficult, since it diffuses the points that are being made.

    Unfortunately there are those who refuse to agree to terms. They persist in defining "transgender" as a state that is between CD and TS. Or there are groups here who refuse to be associated with others. I know there's no hard line between CD and TS, but perhaps people can say they are TSQ (questioning whether they are TS), if they feel they are moving beyond being CD? And not many people use the term "dualgender" if they feel comfortable switching between the two, and they do identify as a woman when they are dressed, and a man when not dressed. But, these are just suggestions.

    We do have a thread that defines general terms, and although it is not perfect, I think it is a good start.

    http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...-Abbreviations
    Reine

  20. #45
    Full-Time Duality NathalieX66's Avatar
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    Karezza (or is it Kay Fox?), I found your answers are most insightful, especially post #33. .......That is exactly how I am.
    Thanks for sharing.
    Last edited by NathalieX66; 10-21-2010 at 07:07 PM.

  21. #46
    Aspiring Member Samantha_Smile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica renee View Post
    All this talk about labels... here's the one I prefer.

    Me.

    Let me explain. I am a crossdresser, that is true. Would I like to transition? I don't know, somedays the answer is yes, other days no. Even as a little kid, I never fit neatly into any one group. I was never the popular kid, didn't fit in with the "nerdy" kids, I was just basically what you'd call a loner. As I've gotten older, I have come to accept this as well as my dressing. Maybe others need a label to define themselves, and I'm fine with that, but I am just fine being myself.
    Never a truer word luv.
    I'm not keen on the label thing either, Ive never liked pigeon holing in any aspect whether it's music, films, books or my gender status.
    But Ive come to realise that the labels, while frustrating to have one 'stuck' to you, they are also very convenient as a means of description.
    Try to explain to someone what a particular band sound like these days and you get a stream of non linked garbage
    "Post pop-punk new wave emo"...... Gazuntite

    I just think the TG labels should be more precise to avoid insult or confusion.
    For example, a transvestic fetishist, is very differnt to one who identifies as Cogender, and these again are not the same as a drag queen.When these things can be differentiated by 100% of the population, then maybe things can move on.

    Untill then, do some more reading here http://tiny.cc/29iu0
    Samantha -x-

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    I agree that for some CDs, it is about getting in touch with a degree of femininity, even if it is merely enjoying the luxurious feel and the wonderful colors and styles of the fabrics. Yet like JohnH, these same CDs enjoy being men, they solidly identify as men, and they would never even wish to be identified as women. Someone who feels this way may develop it further down the road, or he may not.

    But, this still doesn't mean that a gender barrier has not been crossed, hence the appropriateness of using the term "transgender" for everyone ... even those who merely enjoy the clothes.

    Yes, i agree and thanx for putting it in simpler terms, i tend to stumble with words at times.

    And thank you John for your last post (#45). I'm going to step out on that flimsy limb and say it appears that you are seeing things a little differently
    as we have gone through the posts here. I notice a little more comfort with you saying you like the femininity of dressing, as we have gone along.
    I apologize if i'm incorrect and i hope i'm not intruding in any way.

    I have used the terms bi-gendered and dual gendered a few times around the forums, but frankly it tends to just muddy the waters even more.
    mj (Cassie)
    Last edited by Cassandra Lynn; 10-21-2010 at 07:49 PM.

  23. #48
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    The field of Psychology has never impressed me very much as a genuine science - more of an art. It has a curious and colorful history that has roots in ancient philosophy (400 BC). Yet even today it struggles with vestiges of this early influence. Psychology wasn't recognized as a science at all until the late 1800's - and this largely due to the influence of physiology - where crossover studies performed at that time forced the scientific method center stage to the field as a whole. I'm not saying it is without value as it is an earnest attempt to understand human behavior. It has its own language and terminology but these are not as rigidly defined or time-consistent as in other more legitimate sciences. It attempts to embrace the scientific method (observation -> hypothesis -> hypothesis testing (prediction) -> validation -> theory) but because of difficulties inherent to its very object of study the application of reductionist methodology is severely compromised and only partially successful - relative to the legitimate sciences (biology, physics, biochemistry, physiology, anatomy, pharmacology...).

    Human behavior on a societal and individual basis is variable complex and often unfathomable. This is especially true when significantly new trends manifest become widespread and eventually define new population norms. I believe this explains why there is so much confusion over Transgender terminology. Yesterdays definitions become outmoded, there are too many exceptions, new terms are invented, then others still. The whole system collapses in confusion when even these need to be refined, redefined, merged or discarded.

    For instance, in the definition for "Transgender" and other TG-related words - the term "gender line" is specifically referenced in one sense or another - as though it embodies some intrinsic immutable meaning that is immediately informing and generally recognized. This is NOT SO! The "gender line" is NOT constant in time. It changes - and has changed rapidy in recent history. For if Transgender means to cross the gender line - I submit the following: nearly ALL GG woman are transgender relative to the behavior generally considered standard and gender-appropriate for GG women mere decades ago! The gender-line for women has shifted! Significantly! This is not true for men! The currentl definition of what is generally considered acceptable normal male gender behavior REMAINS the same over the same time interval - and beyond! The gender-line for men has not shifted for thousands of years!

    Well...it's high time it DID! In fact...it IS! WE are the vaanguard of that change. We are the pioneers! The new world explorers! The brave and quietly courageous; assertive not aggressive yet as well, polite; gorgous not greedy; sharp but also pretty; mellifluous, convincing not obnoxious or domineering; helpful not hurtful; considerate not course; intelligemt, intuitive; patient not punitive; at worst..ok I admit...sometimes wordy petty and a little bitchy - but not so much so as to start a war! Point is...we are about our bigger business - to grab hold of that ol gender-line; to push and pull it; make it glide and slide to redefine the new scale; the new male; all inclusive, broader in scope; with faith love and hope; but none a that nasty 'ol tyranny - nah uh, no no, the old ways are for dopes.

  24. #49
    fearless transowman juno's Avatar
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    I think that it is common for people to further toward fully transgender than they originally feel, because most people start out life trying to align with a standard cisgender. I have always been feminine, but didn't embrace crossdressing until about age 40.

    As for the terminology, I think it could use an update. Traditionally, transgender means a person with opposite mental and physical genders, and a transsexual is a transgender person living as their mental gender. Transgender has evolved to include other mental gender variants, for no good reason other than nobody came up with a more appropriate term. We have the term "intersex" for people with an intermediate physical sex. I think we need a term for intermediate mental gender; I propose "mesogender".

  25. #50
    A Brave Freestyler JohnH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annaliese2010 View Post
    The "gender line" is NOT constant in time. It changes - and has changed rapidy in recent history. For if Transgender means to cross the gender line - I submit the following: nearly ALL GG woman are transgender relative to the behavior generally considered standard and gender-appropriate for GG women mere decades ago! The gender-line for women has shifted! Significantly! This is not true for men! The currentl definition of what is generally considered acceptable normal male gender behavior REMAINS the same over the same time interval - and beyond! The gender-line for men has not shifted for thousands of years!
    There have been shifts in the gender line for men recently.
    If anything the gender line tightened up for men around the 1940's when boys ceased to wear dresses. At the turn of the previous century boys wore dresses and mary jane shoes. I imagine that when boys wore dresses it would not have been such a big thing for a man to wear a dress. In the 1950's men had to have short hair and no earrings, bracelets, or necklaces. So things have relaxed quite a bit for men since the 1950's.

    I made the mistake of taking a walk after drinking a bit too much, and I got busted for public intoxication by two female officers. At the time I was wearing a floral maxi-dress, and I was taken down to the county jail to be detained. I changed clothes to an orange jump suit, and then when I got bailed out, I had to change back to my street clothes, which was the dress, a purse, and women's sandals. I had my toenails painted.

    At not time was I harassed for my clothing. It was a bit embarrassing to have to talk to a guard to ask which bail bondsman bailed me out and I had to walk across the street to the bondsman with the dress outfit past visitors, and call my wife to pick me up. She picked me up, and then I had to go back to the jail to get my medication.

    The experience was surreal since no one made me feel embarrassed at any time nor harassed me for the clothes I was wearing!

    Of course, in the 1950's it would have been a different story!

    So guys ("gals") feel free to prance about in your femme attire.

    Kind regards,

    John
    Last edited by JohnH; 10-22-2010 at 04:46 PM.
    John (Legal name)

    Preferred pronouns: he, his, him

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