It probably won't happen in my lifetime, but we can always hope.
It probably won't happen in my lifetime, but we can always hope.
Michelle
Originally Posted by Lorileah
Ahem, the way to cure ignorance is education. The way to education is to come out and teach what you know is true. The way this site goes that majority you mention (the heterosexual, married, crossdresser) won't come out and be counted. So who can blame society for thinking a) CD's are gay, after all don't they want guys and since they are guys that would be "gay" right? Where do you find Drag shows? Gay bars. and that b) CD's want to be women (and I would not just brush that aside as not being a significant number especially here) when TS's get more press than hetero-married CD's...who stay hidden and don't make any waves.
First step is "we" as a group have to dispel any idea that we are in anyway abnormal...both to ourselves and to the world (start with not going to see any media that portrays TG's as crazy, insane, clown like figures who are socio-pathic like Springer and almost every movie ever made about TG's). If we don't believe that what we do is not wrong then how can you teach everyone else it isn't? Start with the stereotypic rumors...like we are all gay and we "want" men. Listen to children and watch to see that they don't really care how a person dresses until we TELL them it isn't right. Own what you are. Every equal rights fight has started with the group teaching that they were NOT what the majority thought they were. And they had to say it loud and proud (sorry for stealing that).
and just as a heads up, don't be using the "women can wear what they want..whah whah" argument too much, they did as I said above and made it "ok" by taking charge of who they are. It wasn't just given to them
Lori, I will hold your soapbox anytime you want to speak !
You'd better make such degrading statements about the crossdressers too or your pals might become suspicious. Oh, wait, perhaps that's why THEY are doing it.
You never know how many guys are crossdressing - maybe a lot more than we think.
As part of society, when we complain about how it is, we are complaining about ourselves. Don't like the paradigm? The "buck" starts and stops here my friend.
Second star to the right and straight on till morning
I feel you, my friends know about my CDing but they dont talk about it and it seems like I wasnt taken seriously?!
They also still stereo type gay people and other transexuals which does hurt deep inside.
We cant do anything about their perception of our kind.
[SIZE=4]It appears that many of us have "friends" that really aren't friends. Why hang out with people that belittle your interests. It seems like you should actually choose your friends rather than attempt to stay with people that are close by.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]"Outing" anyone for any reason shows just how out of touch with reality you are, as if your interpretation of reality is the only one.[/SIZE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I am a licensed Cosmetologist (hair stylist, not cosmonaut), work as a hair and wig stylist, makeup artist and permanent makeup artist, dressed as you see in my avatar and albums.
My web site www.apparentlyfemale.com
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Ok. I know I am new here and just a few days I found out I wasn't alone. I knew others were out there, but I would not allow myself to see it. I can't, nor will I, try to speak for those with their own voices- I am speaking for myself alone.
I am glad someone mentioned "outting" others. It made me think about myself and how I would/wouldnt fit in here (or any other friendly place). It does worry me that I might make a massive mistake and someone I thought was the same as me might out me because of my lack of knowledge (again, not the person who mentioned it and not online- anywhere and anyone). I am very glad you said it (and thank you) it makes me realize that I wish I would have been "outted" years ago. The only reason the world does not accept me is because I do not accept myself. If I had the courage to be known, then it would be me. Instead I act like someone else and the world looks at me as a fake, but I am mad at the world for not accepting me. Kinda funny when you think of it like that. If I would have been outted then the lie I was trying to promote would be the one getting laughed at.
As for someone "outting" a community member, it shows us where we need to start. All of us, including me, need to be more understanding and compassionate with ourselves before we can change the world.
Ignorance is just the worst. I am struggling with this issue myself with my in-laws who unwittingly make statements like this around their own closeted son.
I guess we just need to educate whenever possible.
I work in heavy construction. We are doing training courses for 3 days. I am dressed in totally male clothes, jeans, sweater, black wool coat. However some of the guys have decided to tease me about the dark purple scarf I have with my coat. Nothing femme about it yet they still joke that I "stole my girlfriend's scarf" or I'm a "closet fag". Ignorance in some people is beyond comprehension.
Lorilieh is correct in that women obtained the freedom to wear what they want to wear by just doing it and standing up for themselves rather than being ashamed and hiding in the closet. We crossdressers will not make progress because the majority of us are ashamed and feat the repurcussions of coming out so they stay deeply closet cowering in the closet wishing that the world would change and that other crossdressers would take the risks for them. I believe that the best way to make progresss is for guys to start wearing fem items in male mode just as women wear masculine items in their normal wardrobe. For example, you could start wearing earrings and nail polish in male mode. This is the only way to gain fashion freedom and it is the way the women did it. You just cannot step out completely dressed as a girl mimicking feminine mannerisms and expect the world to accept. If women had dressed completely as men with fake moustaches and all, they would have never been accepted. The key to total fashion freedom is to start pushing the envelope in male mode and stop cowering in the closet and complaining.
You will become stronger in the ways of the Pink Fog. May the Pink Fog guide you and be with you now and forever.
After reading your statement about ignorance I felt sad Sarah. The interchange that followed was interesting. And then Nicole hit me hard.
Hey Nicole! I haven't even dared to poke my powdered nose out in the open, though I have thought recently of doing exactly that which you've condemned. I find cders extremely strong-willed who not only undertake but also describe such tentative trips.
Kelly was a little harsh on you, though I was relieved and grateful that she reacted.
But I felt even sadder when I read Sarah's original post again.
Gaby
You should tell these people that you are a "closet crossdresser" and let them deal with it. That is the only way to make progress. If you back down from their taunts, you will not make any progress and you will just feel bad about yourself. We need to be proud of who and what we are. That is the only way to make progress and to feel good about ourselves. There is really no middle ground.
Try this on for size: At one time it was considered by barge and river boat workers sissy for someone to comb his beard.
Ashliegh, those guys have a low opinion about themselves and they are trying to cut you down so they can feel better about themselves.
Jamie, I agree that one should be himself/herself. When I wear a dress with heels and makeup I do not attempt to imitate a woman in the mannerisms or speech other then to soften the speech. I don't raise the pitch of my voice nor change the way I walk. I frequently wear lipstick when I go to church when I am not wearing a tie and wearing masculine clothing. The lipstick is not some garish color but it blends in closely with my natural lip color.
Last edited by JohnH; 01-05-2011 at 11:53 AM.
John (Legal name)
Preferred pronouns: he, his, him
Why not, Jamie?
[SIZE="3"]My response to ignorant statements would be "I don't believe in bigotry" and then look for new friends. [/SIZE]
Brave women step out of that front door everyday and are just fine. RuPaul came out in the 90's (things were worse then) and the world laughed right along with her. Did people laugh at her? Why yes silly, I laughed and joked too, but the whole time I was crying inside wishing I had that life. What's the difference in my life and hers? Nothing. She has the courage to be herself, that's all. When you have the courage to be yourself no words can cut you that deep.
There have been several manly men actors play CD/GLBT roles. Too Wong Foo, Milk, Brokeback Mnt, just for a few. Did these actors catch hell for the roles they played? Not really. There's a few award winning roles, the masses LIKED the movie and the actor playing the role. Why is this? They just did it. They didn't ask if they should, they just did it and the world be damned if they don't like it.
I am going to spend the rest of my life trying to follow my own advice.
I can't believe that this thread has gotten to two pages already and no one seems to have a issue with the fact that calling someone a "fag" and laughing about it is inappropriate regardless of if the person is actually gay or not? The issue with friends saying that when seeing someone crossdressed isn't "Don't they know all CDs are gay" but that it shouldn't have been said to begin with even if that particular person was gay? Continuing to allow homophobia to thrive around us helps no one.
:sarcasm: Yeah. I envy TS people. It's amazing how all TS people are instantly comfortable and at terms with themselves and out there openly living as they are. It's amazing how all TS people are like that, but crossdressers sometimes have to take baby steps. I would assume some TS people have to take at least some time to admit to themselves who they are and figure out what it is they want, but nope, just out there living it.
But you can pick your friends.
Eddie Izzard is a good example of someone who takes his transvestism and is open and honest about it. He doesn't do it as parody, yes he does jokes about it, but his jokes aren't "hey isn't it funny that I wear a dress," and instead about what it is like being a transvestite and dealing with that as part of his life. His whole routine about the differences between a "weirdo transvestite" and an "executive transvestite" is a perfect example of him doing exactly the opposite of what you're accusing him of here. He's saying, yes there are some weird people who crossdress, but those are "weirdo transvestites," as opposed to the large number of perfectly normal crossdressers, like himself, the "executive transvestite."
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~Riley
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that is not ignorance, that is just mean and uncalled for. It is an extention of the bullying that has now become central for young people (just because we are older doesn't mean it goes away...we just learn to ignore what we can). Usually if you don't pay attention to those people they get bored and go off on something else. But if you reply, they keep that in memory for later (no different than training a puppy, which honestly most of those guys are not even smart enough to be a puppy). When a person reaches adulthood they don't act like that...unfortunately many men never reach adulthood and then they wonder why wives leave or they cannot get a good date. They guys at the bar where they hang out find them terrible amusing
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Sometimes just a mere mention that the speaker is wrong, backed with a little documentation (even something like 'I saw it on TV') will shut them up. If you add your understanding that the behavior is different, but normal and you don't find it bad, it's a stronger message. And if they accuse you of something you aren't ready to share, you don't have to. It's just an opportunity to help them grow up and stop being afraid of things they don't understand.
Someone was joking with me and criticized my wearing of Hawaiian shirts saying I was Gay. I responded saying "I'm not Gay, I'm Transgendered." They stopped short, laughed nervously and went on to something else, not really sure what had just happened.
Sarah
Being transgender isn't a lifestyle choice. How you deal with it is.
If they are so ignorant as to equate the wearing of Hawaiian print shirts with being gay (was Magnum gay? Hawkeye Pierce? Harry Truman?), they are probably ignorant of what the word "transgendered" means, too.
But you make a good point, Sarah. Sometimes the direct, honest, deadpan response is the most disarming.
"Television is very educational. Whenever somebody turns it on, I go into another room and read a book." -- Groucho Marx
Was coming back from a job an had three guys in the van, we passed a park and at the corner of my eye i seen a cder walking on a walk way of the park. All at once one of my co-worker screams out OMG! i just seen a guy there wearing a skirt and heels. The other guys wanted to see to and told me to turn around. I told them leave the guy alone, he's not not hurting anyone. Went quite in the truck for a second and one of them said didn't know you felt that way. I said i don't see what the big deal is. At the back of my mind i was thinking that he had a lot courage to be walking around in daylight, good for him.
My apologies gaby, I did not want to be harh and I appologise to anyone whom i have offended, I believe in unity within the community so it's hard to see people within our own community making those kind of comments. There will be a day in the very near future when your gender identity will not matter. I see us all working towards the same goal.
Nice reffrences.
Maria, Yes he showed a lot of courage , and you did as well, I'm really poud of you sister.
That's exactly what I'm talking about Maria...good for you!
My older sister and I used to be best friends. During the beginning of my relationship with my husband, I told her about his crossdressing. She didn't understand it, but we talked about it and she understood that I accepted it and it was part of our relationship. We had long talks about crossdressing and the fact that it was primarily a heterosexual activity, and I talked through MY initial acceptance of this part of my life with her. Obviously not everything, but as I learned, I talked to her about things, and she knew enough to know what it was all about. Still not her cup of tea, but that's fine, he was not with her, he was with me.
Several years later, we had a fight about something completely unrelated and out of the blue she accused him of being a child molester based solely on the fact that she knew he was a crossdresser. She told me she would not allow my two nephews to visit us and said some truly horrible things. I never told my husband what she said - I saw no reason to hurt him like she hurt me.
To this day, almost a decade later, she does not understand that she said anything wrong and does not feel that she needs to apologize for anything. I have not spoken to her since that day. She does not deserve us in her life.
I am worth more than having to listen to the ignorance of others. If someone I am with feels the need to disparage someone else, I am quick to shut them down. Racist, sexist, genderist, whatever -ist you have - keep it away from me. All of my friends know that about me and have learned not to talk that way around me, and more than a few of them have told me they stopped doing it in general once they thought about it after I said something. It really only takes one person to speak up and say something, and you really can make a difference.
I don't know whether we're 'pushed'; we can be as feminine as we want. But with that, comes problems. You make yourself target for males to take advantage of you, and of course, eliminate a real whole lot of women as potential romantic partners.Sure, we're a lot closer than we were 50 years ago, but will we EVER live in society where males aren't "pushed" to be so masculine?
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
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