DocRS makes a great point here. Once we have accepted ourselves, when others get to know us they are quite likely to feel differently. I think we have seen numerous examples of this in posts to this forum.Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
Someone referred to "Hollywood" as the frame of reference. I hope that isn't so. If anything, films like Psycho, Dressed to Kill and the Silence of the Lambs reinforced the image of CD's as "perv's, and maybe that is part of the problem.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Proud member of the Lacey Leigh Fan Club
Tough stuff thrown up by your thread, clayfish.
A front-page report in the local press freaked me out recently.
Apparently somebody broke into a house a few streets away from where I live and stole mostly numerous bras and underwear. The editor couldn't resist setting the report with a somewhat shoddy and sarcastic underlying tone.
What really got at me is that if I out my passionate crossdressing (and bra tick) at some time in the future then it won't take a Sherlock Holmes to piece a plausible two-and-two together... add a bit of bloody-mindedness and the wagging tongues will do the rest.
My fears aren't at all realistic, I know.
But why do I even think this rubbish in the first place?
Being gay in Germany is no big deal at all anymore - but even here it's still not ok for most people if you crossdress, particularly in smaller towns.
Take care, Gaby
[SIZE="1"]When Irish Eyes Are Smiling... In the lilt of Irish laughter... When Irish hearts are happy... And When Irish Eyes Are Smiling... [/SIZE]
I have always thought that the CD community has terrible public relations issues.
I subscribe to the Google news feed under the key word "crossdressing" do you know that 90% of the things that I get are about bank robbers who decided to crossdress before pulling off their heist? Its sad there is so little news of a positive nature. There is no spokesperson who can defend these actions and the general public has huge misconceptions about crossdressing and the people who do it. I don't see that changing unfortunately.
But lets face it there are less than positive role models about. I'm sure you have seen that creepy looking person walking through the mall with that cheap wig, bad makeup, and wearing a raincoat? I'm sorry if i offend but that person can literally be made in two seconds. and it reinforces the ridicule that CDs get.
I do agree with docrobbysherry above, if you would get to know the average CD you would find them to be nice people and not the perv they are perceived to be.
I'm not going to lie. Some of the people in public with things they wear as tg's or cd's doesn't help. I know we need to self express ourselves, but when you go to a family place with a lot of kids and you're wearing caked on makeup, big false lashes, extremely high heels with fishnets and a tight tight mini skirt where your butt sticks out, and you are wearing all this 4 sizes smaller then you really are to boot, it doesn't help the public image. Tastefulness needs to be thought of when we go out as well. Don't get me wrong I see some gg's do the same thing and I'm like omg are you serious? As I have found with my coming out at work and dressing full time, its easier to spot some transgender/cd people then looking at a man or woman that is gay, bisexual, or lesbian. Clothing shows everyone something, it makes statements. You can see a cd/tg more then someones sexuality. Also the lack of media support and support all around from the glbt community can hurt as well. I see it like a BLT sandwhich (I know weird analogy but it'll make sense. Most times when you have a BLT sandwhich, you add miracle whip manase to it. Well, the GLBT community at times can be like the sandwhich, transgender is the miracle whip manase and gets overlooked a lot. With all support efforts being fought, the tg/cd communities normally aren't apart of that. Look at discrimination laws for example. Many states have anti-discrimination laws for sexual orientation but not gender identity (whole other topic later). I think its a big combination of things like this.
Please remember everyone this is only my opinions, I don't mean to upset anyone if I have I apologize.
because we are the "T" in LGBT?
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Hey everyone. after reading some of the replies to this thread and my own. I got thinking. Why do we have to Lable everything? Surely if it wasn't labeled then it wouldn't be considered wrong or weird?
Hugs Kalyan x
Actually I think it's more OK to crossdress, as long as it's 'for fun' or 'for irony', as in a drag-themed college party, or a funny television show, but when it crosses the line of gender identity or pornography, then it's no longer.
I think gender is more deeply engrained in society than sexuality, because gender is one step closer to biology, clothing, societal roles, language, even. So it makes sense to me that sexuality would be the first front of liberation.
Crossdressing is itself a rather nebulous thing, which is basically impossible to explain to people in a simple or consistent way. It's not as easy to explain it away as simple as 'when a man loves another man' or 'when a woman loves another woman'. Some people cross dress for sexual gratification, some because they just like the clothing's feel or design, some because they like playing a character and it's a hobby, some because they are transgender.
I think a lot of people are of the feeling that, 'as long as it stays in the bedroom', homosexuality is OK. There are flamboyant homosexuals, but I think in general people see crossdressers as quite a bit more flamboyant (that is, those who go out, who people can see), and let's face it, a lot of people wear things that are borderline offensive (if not outright offensive), or quite at odds with their body type and age, and not everyone wants to be confronted with that, whether you are a genetic man, genetic woman, or cross dresser.
My feeling is that it is only a matter of time though before the gender wall comes down like the sexuality wall has.
Well said alana I agree with all of thatcrossdressing is much more publicly visual than homosexuality.I have friends that claim to be ok with people being gay but go urgh if they see two guys kissing
Actually many people have met a CD, we just don't let them know about that side of us. Is it their fault they have mistaken impressions?
I hadn't thought of it this way Alana. If it's possible that we are the next layer of the onion that needs to be peeled back and that can't happen until the sexuality layer has been cleared away, it could be a while unless we join in and actively support the GLB efforts.
Sarah
Being transgender isn't a lifestyle choice. How you deal with it is.
Do you truly want the real answer??????????????
People understand gay, lesbian. Crossdresses & trans people for them are something out of a movie & cause nothing but trouble. Thats my take on it. I also hope that I did not step on any one's toes, if I did I am truly sorry.
Hugs
Because people want commitments /stability. Gay, Lesbian, transsexual. There are all firm commitments and absolutes in people's minds. Bisexuality, crossdressing, gender queer. These all seem like something people do when they are unsure of themselves and everyone now seems to crave confidence.
I guess most people think that there is some hidden slippery sloe that is going to be crossed when you allow acceptance of such things.
I think it is just stupid that anyone would care so much about what another person does with themselves that they would go out of their way to ruin it.
We need a new motto in this world: Mind you own business. If it's not harming other's it's not an issue.
This is the reason why I am open with my kid about CD.
In fact, last time she was over ( I get her every other weekend, she's almost 5 ) she wanted me to wear on of my dresses.
The idea of me in a dress bothers her mom and grandma, but her aunt ( her moms sis ) and her husband are cools with it.
If we teach the younger generation to accept us, then maybe one day we will be accepted.
We also have to stop telling people "I'm not gay, I'm strait!"
We are not strait, kinda curvy maybe, but defiantly NOT strait.
Gay people have fought long, hard and publicly for their rights and freedoms. They are out of the closet.
The reality is that most of us in the CD group are not nearly as public. Complaining anonymously on an Internet board won't help (applies equally to me).
There is much we have to do on our own behalf, Gay and Lesbians have fought long and hard to be recognized, the only way we will be recognized and understood is if we as a group begone to educate people that the way we present / are does not make us monsters or freaks, but people who dress differently because of a number of reasons.
Being Transgendered is not something I chose for myself indeed I don't think any of us made the choice to dress as the opposite gender. In my case it is the only time I feel complete, although the range of reasons is startlingly broad.
Just my
A prisoner in a kings disguise - Styx
People don't like it when you can switch back and forth and since cross dressers do that it gets confusing of which category to put us. A gay person just means his sexual preference is the same sex. cross dressing is still confusing to most people, no one understands why a man would want to prance around like a woman if he straight.
Plus media always has some nutty serial killer who likes to cross dress! sucks for us!
OK, I guess when you are both is a guarantee you will never be accepted
Really, people? Turn on/read the news.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/09/nyregion/09bias.html
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-01-14/j...ce?_s=PM:CRIME
The gay/bi/lesbian community has been gaining public nods for getting stereotypical roles on such shows as Will and Grace and Sex and the City, but there's still plenty of hate out there. I think both communities and those who are within both communities still have a lot to deal with as far as acceptance both from their familiar and the public.
"Today a young man [...] realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration...that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively...there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the Weather.”-Bill Hicks
“What freedom men and women could have, were they not constantly tricked and trapped and enslaved and tortured by their sexuality! The only drawback in that freedom is that without it one would not be a human. One would be a monster.” East of Eden by Steinbeck
and on the other side of that:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/09/fashion/09TRANS.html
Acceptance and tolerance are functions of social norms. Always a slow process on most issues. The more controversial the issue, the slower the progress.
The "gay" acceptance issue, just as other similar conformity issues, experience what appears to be a "surge" forward when the "community involved" (gay, for example)...finally reached an exposure level sufficiently large enough to potentially touch the general population in some way. In short, people seem to become more "understanding and tolerant" when one of those "gay people" turns out to be a family member or close aquaintance...
There are also many more options of "public concealment" available with "gay", than exists with "crossdressing". By concealment, I am referring to the difference in public observation, with crossdressing obviously being more "visable", and requiring less personal "investigation" prior to judgement.(as in discovering gay orientation).
just a few of many factors...IMO
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
They have a lot to do with each other. In both cases part of the brain shows a preference that matches the opposite physical gender. For homosexuals, it is the part that determines sexual preference. For us, it is the part that chooses clothing preferences. That is why we all need to stop acting like the other group is so different.
The only solution is for us to get out in public. It is not always easy, but it never will be until we get enough exposure for people to realize that it is not some sort of mental illness.
Juno Michelle Krahn
Normal people are weird. Stealth is another word for "in the closet".
Yeah and then on the other-other side, my coworkers flipping their sh*t over that book My Princess Boy (blurb about it in that article you linked) and the story behind it. Saying it was morally wrong for the mother to let her kid dress in whatever he wants because he "needs to learn the social norms that he HAS TO STICK TO...my god, what if he grows up a fag???" (Obviously my coworkers do not know that I am bi or that I am dating a CD...and I'm not sure how long I would have a job/how I would be treated if I started dating a woman and took her to a corporate Christmas party).
Honestly...we aren't as far along as we think...
People are and will always be stupid...but, hopefully the more in their face it is, the more they will begin to realize it isn't going away. Gays have been more persistent about this...crossdressing has mainly been socially accepted as a joke. However, I still maintain that neither side has it easy.
Last edited by Shananigans; 01-08-2011 at 08:54 PM.
"Today a young man [...] realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration...that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively...there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the Weather.”-Bill Hicks
“What freedom men and women could have, were they not constantly tricked and trapped and enslaved and tortured by their sexuality! The only drawback in that freedom is that without it one would not be a human. One would be a monster.” East of Eden by Steinbeck
i think the other thing that complicates the mainstream view of cross dressing is drag, as in drag queens, who are embedded into gay culture. they are the pop culture face of cross-dressing.
let's not forget that it was a drag queen who started the stonewall riots, which was considered to be the event that really started gay liberation in the mainstream. the stonewall was a bar that really catered to drag queens and tgirls.
so it's not like transpeople haven't been in this as long as cis-gendered homosexuals, but i think really that its just harder for society to accept gender variation outside of the realm of entertainment than variations in sexuality.
Oh damn, well you nailed it with your "because the gay community has better PR and political clout." where indeed they do.. Remember a few years ago when it was quite "in" to admit you were gay in Hollywood? The number of stars to come out was astounding.. And I still say if a star was to come out on a tv show and say they are a cross dresser then that movement might begin.. Some star like Tom Hanks or something.. To me a big star or a few big stars might throw the flood gates wide open..
It's topics like this that make me really want to stand up and shout and strive for tg/cd equality. It sucks that we have the problems in the world we do and the struggles we do as well. I only hope and pray that someday we will have more acceptance in the eyes of the world as being the wonderful people we are. If only half the people would look inside the hearts of us and not just stop at the sight of how we look, they would see we too are just like them, and then the acceptance can begin.
I think that's the main thing right there: Will and Grace. A TV show about a gay guy with a normal (for sitcoms) life, job, and relationships issues. Something Joe plumber can identify with. TV messages affect everyone, and I think made the biggest strides in the last decade were helped tremendously by the exposure. Being gay was advertised - to 10's of millions at the same time - as "potentially normal" and all the nay sayers were left with nothing to work with. Imagine how successful it would have been had Jack been the lead character...
Sure, there's going to be a few that stick with their prejudices, but you'll never be rid of all of them. The best you can hope for is to only be unaccepted by people that are recognised as radical. Going from a 10% level of acceptance to even 51% is still a big swing, even if you still have to worry about 5 of 10 people wanting to be rid of you. At 51%, you have some stroke in society.
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